Nice to see you back Fincown. Wait.. isn't the old primer yours, or did it belong to someone else? Anyway, as we all know there was a forum transition and some users were deleted and the threads they started got deleted as well. I waited for someone to claim the azorius thread so that it would be undeleted, but after a month no one claimed.. so I took it. Will be taking references from the old primer as I write this new one.
I was actively playing the deck 2015-2017, but stopped for the whole 2018 because our lgs no longer hosted modern. It would be helpful to get match up data from you guys who played the deck 2018-up to the present, as you probably know some things that I do not. Particularly in match ups to the current popular decks. I would credit the contributors as the new primer is built.
for now.. matchup data and sideboard guide against these competitive decks would be a good start --- Mono R Arclight, UR Arclight, Burn, Grixis Shadow, Hollow One, Dredge, Humans, Spirits, and Scaled Affinity.
I would be gathering some data on recent winning lists on the next days as the new primer is built.
Right now I'm also writing for a convention report on non-mtg stuff on another forum, so I can't put things up very fast here. Although with everyone's help I think we can get this new primer done in a week or two.
________________________
@Fincown
If you want, I could add your Glittering wish version on the unconventional lists section of the new primer.
No worries, I'll see what I can do! Doing a quick search on golfish I got a 2018 list for UW Emeria https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1178362#online. Obviously everyone is going to have different sideboard strategies, this list looks like it's forgoing graveyard hate in leu of getting a better Amulet Titan, Titanshift and Tron matchup. The maindeck however is pretty stock, give or take a Detention Sphere for a Day of Judgement. I can't work on all of them right now because it takes time to right them up and I gotta go to work now but I'll try to post my experiences consistently!
No, the primer was never mine. I forget their username but I think it had a picture of a blue bird - penguin in it.
I digress, UR Arclight Phoenix
In my experience you want to side out land destruction package in Spreading Seas and Crucible of Worlds. This is because their deck is already base UR so taking them off mana will be difficult and Crucible of Worlds is too slow and grindy for the matchup. I generally bring in disruption, exile based removal, and graveyard hate. Think, Damping Sphere, Settle the Wreckage and Tormod's Crypt. You really just want to slow them down and avoid busted nut draws because you will win the mid to late game. Also be very conscious of what removal you are spending for what creature, this is because the amount of card draw your opponent posses will likely have you seeing a diverse arrangement of threats. In a long game you are very likely to see Young Pyromancer, Arclight Phoenix, Crackling Drake and Thing in the Ice. I generally want to use exile based removal like Detention Sphere and Path to Exile on Arclight Phoenix and mass removal like Supreme Verdict on Young Pyromancer, Crackling Drake and Thing in the Ice. Gideon of the Trails is mvp against an Thing in the Ice or Crackling Drake. Also keep in mind that Awoken Horror is something you can easily chump block forever and one hit from it will likely not end the game. Them flipping it will also allow you to reset all your enter the battlefield triggers, which is very kind of them. UR Phoenix doesn't play much in the way of countermagic, in fact it's all in the sideboard. Spellpierce and Dispel, you may also see Surgical Extraction and Anger of the Gods post board depending on how your opponent sideboards. Personally I don't bother playing around countermagic with Path to Exile, maybe with a Wrath of God or blow out Settle the Wreckage but giving your opponent extra untaped mana by using it at sorcery speed is generally a bad idea. It may even be the difference between them flipping their Thing in the Ice and smacking you with an extra two Arclight Pheonix. Their basic land count is four, with two mountain and two island.
No rush in writing things. We'll take this slow and finish on a 2 week time table. hehe
On the next days I will be writing on the morning in another forum, and on night I will be working here compiling data from contributors and building up the primer.
Sorry for double post. How many Sun Titan do people consider the core of the deck? I know the number of titans was previously 4 in the main, but that might have changed now. I need people's input on this.
It's generally been accepted to play the three copies of Sun Titan now, this is because just one uncontested Sun Titan will single handily win you the game.
The problem with only the two copies is that you are likely to only find a single titan during the game. Usually the first Sun Titan will eat either countermagic or removal. On the opposite end four copies is much too many because they end up clogging up in your hand.
Ok, so it's three then. Oh btw, I've gathered some more data and links tonight... just need a little more time to put things together.
Will be making this primer as detailed as possible.
@The Fluff I just saw your post about including the bant version under unconventional builds, I'd appreciate that, though I think I may be the only one playing UWish Emeria right now.
As far as core of the deck, I think those numbers come into play if you cut down to the bare bones as a lot of base UW lists play + 1 Flickerwisp + 1 Court Hussar + 1 Wrath of God and sometimes + 1 Detention Sphere. The manabase strikes me as a bit weird though, I've seen eight basic emeria decks usually a split between seven Plains and one Island but I haven't seen an eight Plains build for a while. Four Hallowed Fountain also seems somewhat excessive now that we have access to both Irrigated Farmland and Prairie Stream. I also think you need to add Spreading Seas to the core of the deck, it's a way to generate card advantage and is an important part of our secondary mana denial plan. It is also one our only ways to keep the Tron menace in check.
In summery
Path to Exile = 4
Wall of Omens = 4
Spreading Seas = 4
Court Hussar = 2 - 4
Flickerwisp = 3 - 4
Detention Sphere = 2 - 4
Supreme Verdict = 2 - 3
Wrath of God = 0 - 1
Sun Titan = 3
Hallowed Fountain = 3 - 4
Plains = 6 - 7
Yep, that's why I asked for input. Two people thinking on it is better than one person. Hmm, I see... so spreading seas is also core of the deck now, will add that. Anyway, I included as few cards as possible in the core, to allow people new to the deck to have a few more flex slots.
About the wish build you are developing. Things will become stagnant if we don't test new cards. Looking for other cards that can be used is one way for the deck to grow. As long as the core strategy is still the same, I think we can include the wish variant at the bottom. Of course, the main focus is still the UW version which will be covered at the top part of the primer.
I see that your build is using a Champion of Wits. How is it compared to Court Hussar?
In my opinion, Champion of Wits is worse than Court Hussar. However I play it in the three color version to hedge being able to discard redundant Glittering Wish which can get stuck in your hand when a Blood Moon is in play. It has also been semi-impresive against the UR eltro-living end deck.
That said, I may have to give the sideboard from Goldfish a spin, as it's entirely possible that I've been stuck in my ways. I don't like the idea of no graveyard hate but having both Runed Halo and Disdainful Stoke could be useful when playing against Arclight Phoenix and Amulet Titan respectively.
I do have some experience in the Amulet Titan matchup. This is largely because a regular at my old LGS a year ago was playing this deck post Summer Bloom ban. Anyway, so lets talk strategy, Amulet Titan is a toolbox combo deck, it is looking to ramp into an early Primeval Titan. Ideally they're looking to do this by exploiting the interaction between Amulet of Vigor and various bounce lands and committing more land drops with Azusa, lost but Seeking. Regardless, once a Primeval Titan is resolved it can end the game by tutoring for a Slayers' Stronghold upon entry and a Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion upon attacks. This will make their Primeval Titan a 8/6 with trample, first strike, haste, double strike and vigilance. Essentially this Primeval Titan is supposed to end the game is one swing. Though they can go for a kill, the Amulet Titan player can also opt for a slightly grinder plan by tutoring for a Tolaria West which can then be used to transmute for a Summoner's Pact, Walking Ballista, Engineered Explosives or Pact of Negation. The Summoner's Pact can then be used to tutor for additional Primeval Titan thus looping them. Other cards they may search for include, Tireless Tracker, Zacama, Primal Calamity, Ruric Thar, Hornet Queen. Some builds also play an alternate win condition in the form of Hive Mind in which they will cast a Pact of Negation or Summoner's Pact and if the opponent fails to pay the upkeep cost they lose the game.
So to review, Amulet Titan is a ramp focused toolbox combo deck focused on dealing lethal damage through a buffed Primeval Titan or an alternate win condition in the form of Hive Mind. They can also grind fairly well by searching for a Tolaria West and a bouceland, upon Primeval Titan's enter the battlefield trigger and repeating this process.
So how do you combat this? Your best friends in this matchup pre side are Path to Exile, Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin and Gideon of the Trials. Instant speed removal is likely needed to weather the first hit from Primeval Titan afterwards you want to take out their Slayers' Stronghold as this will force your opponent to play a sorcery speed making both Detention Sphere and Supreme Verdict much better. Once they shift gears to their grinder gameplan you need to prioritize destroying Tolaria West in response to a bounce lands trigger, this is to prevent them from starting their loop. A Gideon of the Trials emblem will ensure you don't get janked out by a Hive Mind. Gideon of the Trials will likely also buy you a turn if you get attacked by a Primeval Titan because Amulet Titan usually only has one massive attacker to swing with at a time. You can also use Gideon of the Trials as a quasi removal for a Titan by fogging it until you draw into real removal.
Spreading Sea's is unreliable because your opponent will just play a bounceland to pick up the land enchanted by it and the lifegain provided by our Lone Missionary is largely inconsequential because our opponent tends to deal damage in massive chunks.
Keep in mind, Flickerwisp can be used to kill Walking Ballista or reset a bounce land. Detention Sphere should be used to take out Amulet of Vigor ASAP. Sometimes you can win a match by destroying the correct bounce land while your opponent has pact triggers at upkeep. Make sure to destroy the bounceland upon entry so it's etb still forces your opponent to pick up another land. Our Emeria, the Sky Ruin gameplan is largely unreliable because of their one Bojuka Bog and thier ability to easily reset it multiple times. I would suggest holding a Court Hussar until you can use a Ghost Quarter / Field of Ruin to destroy it.
For the primer. Currently accepting short sideboard guides against these decks.
I don't have much experience against them, so other people's ideas are much needed here.
1. Scapeshift
2. 4 Color Whir
3. UR Storm
4. Ad Nauseam
Primer looks great, but you posted the Glittering wish version twice. Once at the top and again at the bottom, was this intentional? Also the Amulet Titan sideboard guide doesn't include the actual sideboard strategy.
Sorry about my lenthy guides, I'll try to really condense the information if I write more.
I was actively playing the deck 2015-2017, but stopped for the whole 2018 because our lgs no longer hosted modern. It would be helpful to get match up data from you guys who played the deck 2018-up to the present, as you probably know some things that I do not. Particularly in match ups to the current popular decks. I would credit the contributors as the new primer is built.
for now.. matchup data and sideboard guide against these competitive decks would be a good start --- Mono R Arclight, UR Arclight, Burn, Grixis Shadow, Hollow One, Dredge, Humans, Spirits, and Scaled Affinity.
I would be gathering some data on recent winning lists on the next days as the new primer is built.
Right now I'm also writing for a convention report on non-mtg stuff on another forum, so I can't put things up very fast here. Although with everyone's help I think we can get this new primer done in a week or two.
________________________
@Fincown
If you want, I could add your Glittering wish version on the unconventional lists section of the new primer.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
No, the primer was never mine. I forget their username but I think it had a picture of a blue bird - penguin in it.
I digress, UR Arclight Phoenix
In my experience you want to side out land destruction package in Spreading Seas and Crucible of Worlds. This is because their deck is already base UR so taking them off mana will be difficult and Crucible of Worlds is too slow and grindy for the matchup. I generally bring in disruption, exile based removal, and graveyard hate. Think, Damping Sphere, Settle the Wreckage and Tormod's Crypt. You really just want to slow them down and avoid busted nut draws because you will win the mid to late game. Also be very conscious of what removal you are spending for what creature, this is because the amount of card draw your opponent posses will likely have you seeing a diverse arrangement of threats. In a long game you are very likely to see Young Pyromancer, Arclight Phoenix, Crackling Drake and Thing in the Ice. I generally want to use exile based removal like Detention Sphere and Path to Exile on Arclight Phoenix and mass removal like Supreme Verdict on Young Pyromancer, Crackling Drake and Thing in the Ice. Gideon of the Trails is mvp against an Thing in the Ice or Crackling Drake. Also keep in mind that Awoken Horror is something you can easily chump block forever and one hit from it will likely not end the game. Them flipping it will also allow you to reset all your enter the battlefield triggers, which is very kind of them. UR Phoenix doesn't play much in the way of countermagic, in fact it's all in the sideboard. Spellpierce and Dispel, you may also see Surgical Extraction and Anger of the Gods post board depending on how your opponent sideboards. Personally I don't bother playing around countermagic with Path to Exile, maybe with a Wrath of God or blow out Settle the Wreckage but giving your opponent extra untaped mana by using it at sorcery speed is generally a bad idea. It may even be the difference between them flipping their Thing in the Ice and smacking you with an extra two Arclight Pheonix. Their basic land count is four, with two mountain and two island.
On the next days I will be writing on the morning in another forum, and on night I will be working here compiling data from contributors and building up the primer.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
The problem with only the two copies is that you are likely to only find a single titan during the game. Usually the first Sun Titan will eat either countermagic or removal. On the opposite end four copies is much too many because they end up clogging up in your hand.
Will be making this primer as detailed as possible.
Core of the deck. Thoughts?
4 Wall of Omens
3 Flickerwisp
2 Court Hussar
2 Detention Sphere
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
8 Plains
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
As far as core of the deck, I think those numbers come into play if you cut down to the bare bones as a lot of base UW lists play + 1 Flickerwisp + 1 Court Hussar + 1 Wrath of God and sometimes + 1 Detention Sphere. The manabase strikes me as a bit weird though, I've seen eight basic emeria decks usually a split between seven Plains and one Island but I haven't seen an eight Plains build for a while. Four Hallowed Fountain also seems somewhat excessive now that we have access to both Irrigated Farmland and Prairie Stream. I also think you need to add Spreading Seas to the core of the deck, it's a way to generate card advantage and is an important part of our secondary mana denial plan. It is also one our only ways to keep the Tron menace in check.
In summery
Path to Exile = 4
Wall of Omens = 4
Spreading Seas = 4
Court Hussar = 2 - 4
Flickerwisp = 3 - 4
Detention Sphere = 2 - 4
Supreme Verdict = 2 - 3
Wrath of God = 0 - 1
Sun Titan = 3
Hallowed Fountain = 3 - 4
Plains = 6 - 7
About the wish build you are developing. Things will become stagnant if we don't test new cards. Looking for other cards that can be used is one way for the deck to grow. As long as the core strategy is still the same, I think we can include the wish variant at the bottom. Of course, the main focus is still the UW version which will be covered at the top part of the primer.
I see that your build is using a Champion of Wits. How is it compared to Court Hussar?
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
What does your most recent UW list look like? If you want, I can use it as the sample deck list in the primer.
It's all coming together now. I just need a little more time.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Maindeck: 60
Creature: 18
3 Lone Missionary
4 Wall of Omens
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Flickerwisp
3 Court Hussar
3 Sun Titan
Instant // Sorcery: 7
4 Path to Exile
1 Wrath of God
2 Supreme Verdict
Enchantment: 7
4 Spreading Seas
3 Detention Sphere
Planeswalker: 2
2 Gideon of the Trail's
Artifact: 1
1 Crucible of Worlds
Manabase: 25
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Island
6 Plains
1 Prairie Stream
1 Windswept Heath
Sideboard: 15
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
2 Damping Sphere
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Gideon of the Trial's
1 Settle the Wreckage
That said, I may have to give the sideboard from Goldfish a spin, as it's entirely possible that I've been stuck in my ways. I don't like the idea of no graveyard hate but having both Runed Halo and Disdainful Stoke could be useful when playing against Arclight Phoenix and Amulet Titan respectively.
Do you have plenty experience playing against Amulet Titan? It would be great if you could write a sideboard strategy for that too.
I already have a rough draft of the primer, and you are credited on the parts that you contributed.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
So to review, Amulet Titan is a ramp focused toolbox combo deck focused on dealing lethal damage through a buffed Primeval Titan or an alternate win condition in the form of Hive Mind. They can also grind fairly well by searching for a Tolaria West and a bouceland, upon Primeval Titan's enter the battlefield trigger and repeating this process.
So how do you combat this? Your best friends in this matchup pre side are Path to Exile, Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin and Gideon of the Trials. Instant speed removal is likely needed to weather the first hit from Primeval Titan afterwards you want to take out their Slayers' Stronghold as this will force your opponent to play a sorcery speed making both Detention Sphere and Supreme Verdict much better. Once they shift gears to their grinder gameplan you need to prioritize destroying Tolaria West in response to a bounce lands trigger, this is to prevent them from starting their loop. A Gideon of the Trials emblem will ensure you don't get janked out by a Hive Mind. Gideon of the Trials will likely also buy you a turn if you get attacked by a Primeval Titan because Amulet Titan usually only has one massive attacker to swing with at a time. You can also use Gideon of the Trials as a quasi removal for a Titan by fogging it until you draw into real removal.
Side in:
2 Dispel, 1 Sorcerous Spyglass, 1 Gideon of the Trails, 2 Damping Sphere
Side out:
2 Lone Missionary
4 Spreading Sea's
Spreading Sea's is unreliable because your opponent will just play a bounceland to pick up the land enchanted by it and the lifegain provided by our Lone Missionary is largely inconsequential because our opponent tends to deal damage in massive chunks.
Countermagic for Pact of Negation and Summoner's Pact, Sorcerous Spyglass for Slayers' Stronghold, Engineered Explosives, or Tolaria West transmute. Gideon of the Trials for Hive Mind or fogs a threat. Damping Sphere to slow down the opponent by cutting off extra mana added by bouncelands.
Keep in mind, Flickerwisp can be used to kill Walking Ballista or reset a bounce land. Detention Sphere should be used to take out Amulet of Vigor ASAP. Sometimes you can win a match by destroying the correct bounce land while your opponent has pact triggers at upkeep. Make sure to destroy the bounceland upon entry so it's etb still forces your opponent to pick up another land. Our Emeria, the Sky Ruin gameplan is largely unreliable because of their one Bojuka Bog and thier ability to easily reset it multiple times. I would suggest holding a Court Hussar until you can use a Ghost Quarter / Field of Ruin to destroy it.
Other great cards in this match up Runed Halo, Disdainful Stroke, possibly Surgical Extraction.
Basic Land count: 3
3 Forest
Now working on the primer....
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Good luck on the primer! Oh, I just saw one of your earlier posts.I never held the primer, I just posted consistently.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/757085-azourius-titan-emeria-control
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
For the primer. Currently accepting short sideboard guides against these decks.
I don't have much experience against them, so other people's ideas are much needed here.
1. Scapeshift
2. 4 Color Whir
3. UR Storm
4. Ad Nauseam
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Sorry about my lenthy guides, I'll try to really condense the information if I write more.
Used your description for Amulet Titan. As well as the second paragraph and what to side in and out. Is that ok now?
EDIT: just copied everything you wrote, except for the first paragraph.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread