Yeah, you just have to look at the relationship between Bolt, Goyf (and Delve Creatures, and Death's Shadow), and Push, to see that Bolt rises and falls. I think its possible that Bolt simply becomes less good again, depending on the shift of the meta.
This weekends GP could show us some new things, or just be a 'play what you like' event again.
i think it will be a little bit of both, kind of like it usually is.
there will be the pros and uber spikes sleeving up what they perceive as the best thing going on. then there is the crowd that is more representative of the average modern player, where they have 1 (maybe 2 or 3) competitive decks.
incidentally i think this is why a lot of pros, especially those who practice exclusively on mtgo, flame out of tournaments. they go in expecting mono jund mirrors then get dumpstered by some guy playing the same deck for the last 5 years.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I feel one copy of Secure the wastes is too little these days. The card is a house against jund and other grindfests, and if they discard it it's almost as good with a topdecked Snapcaster in the lategame. Definitely a card you want to draw in such games and then one copy is too low. I like it in both big control and tempo/midrange.
In non-grindy games, 3 power at instant speed for 4 mana is similar to a restoration angel and a decent clock to play out when they didn't play anything worthy of your counterspell.
I'm a big fan of Secure but the thing with playing multiples is you rarely want to draw more than 1 copy of it.
That will depend heavily on the matchup. In the games I've won against jund on the back of this card, I've been happy to draw multiple copies. It's an ok play for 4 mana and gets increasingly more insane from 5 mana and up.
If you really WANT to draw one copy during the game, then that will probably not happen if you play only one copy in your 60. If you play 2 copies, you have a reasonable chance of drawing it through the course of the game.
And also other cards are competing for that spot, including Jace himself
I'd say the tokens synergizes well with Jace and other walkers because it can protect it and chump block if necessary. End step secure + main phase Jace, and you're in a good spot to start brainstorming.
You want to draw one, but its not worth messing with the rest of the picture to make that happen, is the main thing I guess. I dont know, I'm still pretty happy with the deck as it sits now, when approaching an open meta.
I feel one copy of Secure the wastes is too little these days. The card is a house against jund and other grindfests, and if they discard it it's almost as good with a topdecked Snapcaster in the lategame. Definitely a card you want to draw in such games and then one copy is too low. I like it in both big control and tempo/midrange.
In non-grindy games, 3 power at instant speed for 4 mana is similar to a restoration angel and a decent clock to play out when they didn't play anything worthy of your counterspell.
I've run both one and two copies at various times. I think 2 copies has merit. But, as flexible as it is, it is a top- end spell with an (X) in the mana coat. If you build with two (X) spells in the same 60 then your mana base needs to support it.
I feel it's a card you want to see in the first 10 turns always, but never two in one hand simultaneously. Running two copies can be good amd bad at the same time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
@0oSunnYo0 I see in your bio you play green/red Ponza? Since you understand the deck well, how do you play around it with Jeskai? Is there any strategy to shutting them out?
It has been my worst matchup lately and I hate going up against it because I feel like I'm not even playing magic as they take me off of all of my colors.. lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
I've been trying out Blind Obedience to decent effect in the Jund matchup. Slows down BBE, puts more pressure on their 1-2 Abrupt Decay with SFA, and falls in line with my plan to turn into a burn deck each game while they self-inflict damage from lands, TS, and Confidant. Helps against Reality Smasher too.
@0oSunnYo0 I see in your bio you play green/red Ponza? Since you understand the deck well, how do you play around it with Jeskai? Is there any strategy to shutting them out?
It has been my worst matchup lately and I hate going up against it because I feel like I'm not even playing magic as they take me off of all of my colors.. lol
Fair question. It really is built to beat control and big mana, so it's a tough match-up for 3-colour control. Even straight UW is somewhat weak to it. We used to run Thrun a lot more in the deck. Now with BBE it's hardly needed.
A) always bolt/path the bird in upkeep to take them off a t2 moon/rain etc. The deck usually plays no 2-drops. If their t1 play is Utopia Sprawl then Jeskai has few answers though.
B) t2 counterspells are key
C) land heavy hands are good against 50% of Ponzas' openers so they are not necessarily a bad thing. You may just get run over by t2 BBE or Chandra though.
D) Choose a colour to protect post board. You can't really expect to protect Cryptic mana AND all your white or double white spells. Plan accordingly and choose what to fight over. This can mean it's correct to board out most cryptics, or verdicts and helixs etc. Be aware of Stormbreath if you cut verdicts. Settle the Wreckage is good if you can protect WW.
Jeskai had the tools and the fetches to both beat and play around Moon etc. But sometimes you just don't have it line up and there's nothing you can do. The first two turns are absolutely crucial.
@0oSunnYo0 I see in your bio you play green/red Ponza? Since you understand the deck well, how do you play around it with Jeskai? Is there any strategy to shutting them out?
It has been my worst matchup lately and I hate going up against it because I feel like I'm not even playing magic as they take me off of all of my colors.. lol
One advice: If you have several fetchlands, play them out without cracking them for as long as possible. If you only have two uncracked fetches in play, they can't play their turn 2/turn 3 Molten Rain/Stone Rain (because you would crack it in response). And then the next turn, hopefully you have enough mana and countermagic to protect yourself.
If you have room for Spreading Seas, it's a great spell in this matchup, both because Utopia Sprawl falls off when you play it on an enchanted forest, and because you can play it on your own land under a Blood Moon to make an island (provided you already have one basic island in play).
If you have Molten Rain in the sideboard, you can play it on their enchanted land (two-for-one)
i wouldnt bring in molten rain against ponza. they are 2 colors with mana creatures to boot.
trying to out stone rain the stone rain deck is a dubious proposition
edit: also if you are looking for more cheap interaction against ponza i would look at trying to find space for a couple of Spell Pierces. the card is great at stopping early blood moon/stone rain, and is marginally effective in other matchups.
Yep those are also valid above; spell pierce is good, leaving un-cracked fetches is always wise against any moon deck, and especially a 'rain' deck (molten/stone).
Molten Rain is too slow, if you have spreading seas then that is good to use on their utopia sprawl forest.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
So Jeff Hoogland did an analysis of the non-MTGO meta since the un-bannings, and despite lumping Jeskai Midrange and Control together, his analysis shows tier 1 (top 5 placing decks in this sample) to be;
So despite our own opinions, there is verifiable data suggesting that Jeskai is tier 1 still in the new meta, and the best currently placed Jace deck. Link to article below.
So Jeff Hoogland did an analysis of the non-MTGO meta since the un-bannings, and despite lumping Jeskai Midrange and Control together, his analysis shows tier 1 (top 5 placing decks in this sample) to be;
So despite our own opinions, there is verifiable data suggesting that Jeskai is tier 1 still in the new meta, and the best currently placed Jace deck. Link to article below.
nice. itll be interesting to see if it stays that way. jeskai was such an obvious home for jace. but there are other considerations like card availability and what not.
ive been bouncing some midrange ideas around inside my head, but ill admit that im a pretty crappy brewer.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
So Jeff Hoogland did an analysis of the non-MTGO meta since the un-bannings, and despite lumping Jeskai Midrange and Control together, his analysis shows tier 1 (top 5 placing decks in this sample) to be;
So despite our own opinions, there is verifiable data suggesting that Jeskai is tier 1 still in the new meta, and the best currently placed Jace deck. Link to article below.
Yes and no. Jeff said that he coupled a lot of decks together into categories. When going through the Jeskai decklists of these events you'll see that there is a lot of variability. There are many decklists which don't play Jace but are still on the Geist plan. There are some more mid-rangey in there as well. I would say (and without having the time to actually verify it unfortunately, just out of my memory) that roughly half of the Jeskai decks play Jace. Still probably one of the best Jace decks, I don't think it is Tier 1 yet.
I was really satisfied with this list, no real feelings of "I wish I had ran X" after the fact. Jace was very good, as was Azcanta. I put in a Negate over a Counterflux 2 minutes before deck submission since there turned out to be a boatload of burn but didn't actually face it. I was considering Elspeth over Stony but Im really glad I stuck with Stony as I faced lantern and affinity.
@Bearscape - congrats on the solid finish. love the list. nothing fancy going on, but thats what is appealing about it.
i would be interested to hear what other matchups you had besides lantern and affinity.
i think im off the 1 basic mountain at the moment. it has been annoying me, and outside of t1 fetching against burn/zoo, etc i am usually more interested in protecting blue and white. opposing blue decks with field and spreading seas trying to cut me off red isnt that big a deal cause our red cards hardly matter in those matchups, and any non blue deck with fields should be trying to cut white or blue to stop verdict/cryptic/jace.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I was really satisfied with this list, no real feelings of "I wish I had ran X" after the fact. Jace was very good, as was Azcanta. I put in a Negate over a Counterflux 2 minutes before deck submission since there turned out to be a boatload of burn but didn't actually face it. I was considering Elspeth over Stony but Im really glad I stuck with Stony as I faced lantern and affinity.
Congrats on the finish.
I am not obsessed with anything, when presented with data, I discuss the data related to the deck. It is relevant to deck's success whether there is one list performing consistently well or 4-5 different lists performing so-and-so.
Regarding the list, I think an Elspeth, Sun's Champion on the SB would go a long way against Jund. I also think that maybe 2x Ceremonious Rejections would be better than the spreading seas, at least against tron.
This weekends GP could show us some new things, or just be a 'play what you like' event again.
Spirits
there will be the pros and uber spikes sleeving up what they perceive as the best thing going on. then there is the crowd that is more representative of the average modern player, where they have 1 (maybe 2 or 3) competitive decks.
incidentally i think this is why a lot of pros, especially those who practice exclusively on mtgo, flame out of tournaments. they go in expecting mono jund mirrors then get dumpstered by some guy playing the same deck for the last 5 years.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)In non-grindy games, 3 power at instant speed for 4 mana is similar to a restoration angel and a decent clock to play out when they didn't play anything worthy of your counterspell.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
That will depend heavily on the matchup. In the games I've won against jund on the back of this card, I've been happy to draw multiple copies. It's an ok play for 4 mana and gets increasingly more insane from 5 mana and up.
If you really WANT to draw one copy during the game, then that will probably not happen if you play only one copy in your 60. If you play 2 copies, you have a reasonable chance of drawing it through the course of the game.
I'd say the tokens synergizes well with Jace and other walkers because it can protect it and chump block if necessary. End step secure + main phase Jace, and you're in a good spot to start brainstorming.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
Spirits
I've run both one and two copies at various times. I think 2 copies has merit. But, as flexible as it is, it is a top- end spell with an (X) in the mana coat. If you build with two (X) spells in the same 60 then your mana base needs to support it.
I feel it's a card you want to see in the first 10 turns always, but never two in one hand simultaneously. Running two copies can be good amd bad at the same time.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
It has been my worst matchup lately and I hate going up against it because I feel like I'm not even playing magic as they take me off of all of my colors.. lol
Fair question. It really is built to beat control and big mana, so it's a tough match-up for 3-colour control. Even straight UW is somewhat weak to it. We used to run Thrun a lot more in the deck. Now with BBE it's hardly needed.
A) always bolt/path the bird in upkeep to take them off a t2 moon/rain etc. The deck usually plays no 2-drops. If their t1 play is Utopia Sprawl then Jeskai has few answers though.
B) t2 counterspells are key
C) land heavy hands are good against 50% of Ponzas' openers so they are not necessarily a bad thing. You may just get run over by t2 BBE or Chandra though.
D) Choose a colour to protect post board. You can't really expect to protect Cryptic mana AND all your white or double white spells. Plan accordingly and choose what to fight over. This can mean it's correct to board out most cryptics, or verdicts and helixs etc. Be aware of Stormbreath if you cut verdicts. Settle the Wreckage is good if you can protect WW.
Jeskai had the tools and the fetches to both beat and play around Moon etc. But sometimes you just don't have it line up and there's nothing you can do. The first two turns are absolutely crucial.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)One advice: If you have several fetchlands, play them out without cracking them for as long as possible. If you only have two uncracked fetches in play, they can't play their turn 2/turn 3 Molten Rain/Stone Rain (because you would crack it in response). And then the next turn, hopefully you have enough mana and countermagic to protect yourself.
If you have room for Spreading Seas, it's a great spell in this matchup, both because Utopia Sprawl falls off when you play it on an enchanted forest, and because you can play it on your own land under a Blood Moon to make an island (provided you already have one basic island in play).
If you have Molten Rain in the sideboard, you can play it on their enchanted land (two-for-one)
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
trying to out stone rain the stone rain deck is a dubious proposition
edit: also if you are looking for more cheap interaction against ponza i would look at trying to find space for a couple of Spell Pierces. the card is great at stopping early blood moon/stone rain, and is marginally effective in other matchups.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Molten Rain is too slow, if you have spreading seas then that is good to use on their utopia sprawl forest.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Burn - 16 placings
Humans - 16 placings
Jeskai Control - 16 placings
Jund - 16 placings
Gx Tron - 14 placings
So despite our own opinions, there is verifiable data suggesting that Jeskai is tier 1 still in the new meta, and the best currently placed Jace deck. Link to article below.
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/jeffhoogland-03162018-modern-data-dive/
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I've been having some success Molten Raining their Utopia Sprawl enchanted forests. Maybe you're right and I was just lucky, I'll test some more.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
nice. itll be interesting to see if it stays that way. jeskai was such an obvious home for jace. but there are other considerations like card availability and what not.
ive been bouncing some midrange ideas around inside my head, but ill admit that im a pretty crappy brewer.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
In the meantime, I went to a moderately sized tournament (6 rounds) got fourth and won some prizes with this list:
// 5 Creature
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
// 2 Enchantment
2 Search for Azcanta
// 21 Instant
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Logic Knot
2 Electrolyze
3 Cryptic Command
1 Spell Snare
1 Secure the Wastes
// 24 Land
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Field of Ruin
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 6 Sorcery
4 Serum Visions
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Spreading Seas
1 Stony Silence
2 Dispel
1 Counterflux
1 Celestial Purge
1 Abrade
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Negate
1 Supreme Verdict
I was really satisfied with this list, no real feelings of "I wish I had ran X" after the fact. Jace was very good, as was Azcanta. I put in a Negate over a Counterflux 2 minutes before deck submission since there turned out to be a boatload of burn but didn't actually face it. I was considering Elspeth over Stony but Im really glad I stuck with Stony as I faced lantern and affinity.
i would be interested to hear what other matchups you had besides lantern and affinity.
i think im off the 1 basic mountain at the moment. it has been annoying me, and outside of t1 fetching against burn/zoo, etc i am usually more interested in protecting blue and white. opposing blue decks with field and spreading seas trying to cut me off red isnt that big a deal cause our red cards hardly matter in those matchups, and any non blue deck with fields should be trying to cut white or blue to stop verdict/cryptic/jace.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I am not obsessed with anything, when presented with data, I discuss the data related to the deck. It is relevant to deck's success whether there is one list performing consistently well or 4-5 different lists performing so-and-so.
Regarding the list, I think an Elspeth, Sun's Champion on the SB would go a long way against Jund. I also think that maybe 2x Ceremonious Rejections would be better than the spreading seas, at least against tron.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past