I really like the idea of just a jeskai geist/burn list abusing boros charm.. I've seen that pop up online here and there.. I think it works nicely to race opponents
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
I played a jeskai delver list with myth realized, that included 2 boros charms. It was quite good as making myth indestructible, or giving it double strike could be game ending.
It definitely played like a blue burn deck, and not a tempo deck, so it depends on whether or not thats your cup of tea.
I think the ability to just burn people out after connecting with a Geist is pretty attractive. The pyromancer decks and Jund are pretty susceptible to getting burned out with how much damage they do to themselves. It's been a while since I've played without Spell Queller, but I think going without good targets for removal could be good. Sideboard Quellers could be attractive though.
The Search-Gideon-Secure package could be Restos and other value ETBs instead, but I wanted to remain agnostic to removal. I think this list is pretty loose, but I wanted to try a few things out. It's likely better to just jam all 4 Geist and a 4th Helix.
Have any of you found Counterflux or Settle the Wreckage to be worth a slot, or should I be pursuing some better sideboard options?
Only 3 serum visions is a bit weird.
4 colonnades is a a bit heavy as well. Most people have to 3. Another field of ruin or sulfur falls could be a good replacement.
Remand is also not terribly popular right now, but I think its still ok.
I can't claim to be a fan of mainboard EE here. I'd rather see a spell snare, the 4th serum, etc. In the board its quite strong thouhh.
I personally have never been a sideboard quellers person. I vastly prefer cliques in the board, and don't like devoting 1/3 of my board to tempo creatures.
I don't like the elspeth in the board much. Something like PnK, ajani vengeant, or 4 mana elspeth has always served me better in geist/tempo lists.
Counterflux is ok. I think its an acceptable sideboard card, and if you expect a lot of BBE, its a good choice.
I've been pretty big on settle in the board recently, and its even better if you have geist.
All in all it looks pretty good though. I think the no cliques/restos/quellers main plan to blank removal is a pretty good choice right now, depending on what you're expecting.
My local metagame is full of Jund and midrange type decks, so I am sideboarding Pia and Kiran Nalaar (and others), but I'm still having problems. Any advice or other sideboard cards I can use? Here's what I'm running right now (only 1 Jace until I save more $$$): https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/984646#paper
Have you tried Geist with Gideon 3? I’ve been doing 3/3 and liking it a lot. Gideon can come down on 4 and fog a creature to allow Geist to swing in, while representing Path, then accelerates your clock if you can control the board.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Have you tried Geist with Gideon 3? I’ve been doing 3/3 and liking it a lot. Gideon can come down on 4 and fog a creature to allow Geist to swing in, while representing Path, then accelerates your clock if you can control the board.
I've always wondered about Gideon OTT and Geist in the same shell and would be interested in testing that myself. I feel Gideon OTT is weak to BBE though, since haste invalidates the fog. I guess if you tick up immidiately he has 4 loyalty though, which is nice. How do you feel about the interaction there?
I've always wanted to make a Jeskai midrange Geist/Walker list work but have a suspicion Esper might just be better suited for it. The pros for Jeskai are obviously reach and spot removal, the pros for esper being discard into Geist or discard into walker.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
I've played gideon + geist together like that in the past. Its decent. Having more powerful 3 drops > hold up cryptic is very nice.
I am also worried about BBE though.
I think jeskai midrange has some hope, but most superfriends/planeswalker centric builds have never worked out in the past. Theres usually a number of different ways you can take the ideas though, so its possible they're just not fully explored.
I'll dig up some of my old lists tomorrow maybe.
Have you tried Geist with Gideon 3? I’ve been doing 3/3 and liking it a lot. Gideon can come down on 4 and fog a creature to allow Geist to swing in, while representing Path, then accelerates your clock if you can control the board.
If I do use Gideon of the Trials I'd probably just use 1 and cut a Spell Queller. Not sure how good it can be though. It's probably metagame dependent, but I will give it a try for sure.
What do we think it would require to run a deck that mainboards Elspeth? more cantrip/lands?
I really like the idea of going full big spell control with mana leaks/logic knot/etc and I REALLY want to make Elspeth work because she just wins
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What do we think it would require to run a deck that mainboards Elspeth? more cantrip/lands?
I really like the idea of going full big spell control with mana leaks/logic knot/etc and I REALLY want to make Elspeth work because she just wins
People have varied opinions on Elspeth, Sun's Champion at the moment. Personally I think she's always been a Jund killer and not much has changed in that regard.
What do we think it would require to run a deck that mainboards Elspeth? more cantrip/lands?
I really like the idea of going full big spell control with mana leaks/logic knot/etc and I REALLY want to make Elspeth work because she just wins
What do we think it would require to run a deck that mainboards Elspeth? more cantrip/lands?
I really like the idea of going full big spell control with mana leaks/logic knot/etc and I REALLY want to make Elspeth work because she just wins
Yep that's the same list I posted. Jund has only 2 pulses to deal with her, but admittedly BBE helps find them.
I don't particularly like her against control match-ups, mainly because winning a counter war over her is hard, but if she lands it's lights out against blue decks usually.
I'm on Geist-Azcanta as well right now. The things you're trying out are very interesting. Personally, however, I don't think I would dare to cut a SV. I'm skeptical of some of your sb choices, but sb is very personal and meta dependent. Personally I find Disdainful Stroke to be a worse version of Counterflux and Settle the Wreckage a bad Verdict.
I find the Remand idea to be rather appealing, however, at the end of the day, I'm not sure I would give up my Spell Snares. They're so good vs Storm, Jund, Burn and other blue based control and swarm aggro decks.
Thanks for the input. I too thought it was odd to be playing 3 SV, but after jamming all the cards I thought I wanted I was left with a cut to make. I thought it might be fine considering the front side of Search does some of what we need SV for, and it's otherwise a fairly low impact card. The 2 Remands also pick up some slack for the missing cantrip.
The main EE could be switched to a miser's Spell Snare. I do like Snare, but the initial thought was to construct the main deck with no potentially dead cards. EE covers so many random annoyances that I thought it could be good. Also frees up a sideboard slot when I move one to the main. There may be more equity to be gained by including the Snare though. I'll try to find room for at least one.
I don't think Counterflux and Disdainful Stroke are really doing the same thing. Generally I don't consider Flux, but the fact that it answers all of BBE had me curious to try it out. Stroke is a much better card in the Titanshift and Tron matchups than Counterflux though.
Some other potential Sideboard cards:
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - Like Counterflux, this card serves as a potential BBE answer. It also has applications in Combo and Control matchups. Provided you can protect it, it also let's your Geists have flash which is nice.
Entrancing Melody - This card has shown in UR control decks, but I've yet to see UWx decks make use of it. Is it because we just have too many better options in white? Primary use I can think of is to steal a Goyf, but I'm sure there are some other nice targets out there.
the difference between 3 and 4 serum visions should have no perceptible difference on how the deck runs unless you play hundreds of games and rigorously record the results. however i will note that it is often a temptation to shave cantrips, especially when sideboarding, and it usually ends up as being the wrong choice.
Control Magic type effects show up in UR because they have trouble dealing with high toughness creatures. namely goyf. back when splinter twin was legal Threads of Disloyalty was a popular sideboard option against jund. blue moon likewise leverages Vedalken Shackles.
i think there are too many high casting cost threats in the format right now for entrancing melody to be worth a sideboard slot. Bribery is also some cool sideboard tech that occasional shows up.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
i can understand making a case for counterflux based on it being better against a larger number of decks you expect to face. however if you arent specifically leveraging the 'cannot be countered' clause, or the overload effect - then you are just rationalizing bringing in Cancel against some number of decks. in any of those cases if d-stroke can counter the same type of targets then it is just the better card.
thats why i dont agree with saying counterflux is just a better version of stroke. because they are only the same 'version' of anything insomuch as they are both permission spells. its like saying negate is just a better version of ceremonious rejection.
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TheAller, Jund is in Red for a lot more than Bolt, its disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Bolt being conditionally less than optimal is exactly why BG and Junk are able to also perform well.
I mean it should go without saying, but Jund is Jund because of BBE and K-Command now, far far more than because of Bolt.
TheAller, Jund is in Red for a lot more than Bolt, its disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Bolt being conditionally less than optimal is exactly why BG and Junk are able to also perform well.
I mean it should go without saying, but Jund is Jund because of BBE and K-Command now, far far more than because of Bolt.
Especially since Jund was moving further and further off of Bolt until BBE was unbanned, making the sometimes-dead Push a little less valuable relatively.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
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It definitely played like a blue burn deck, and not a tempo deck, so it depends on whether or not thats your cup of tea.
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Field of Ruin
Creatures
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Serum Visions
3 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Logic Knot
2 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
1 Secure the Wastes
Other Stuff
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Counterflux
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Celesital Purge
I think the ability to just burn people out after connecting with a Geist is pretty attractive. The pyromancer decks and Jund are pretty susceptible to getting burned out with how much damage they do to themselves. It's been a while since I've played without Spell Queller, but I think going without good targets for removal could be good. Sideboard Quellers could be attractive though.
The Search-Gideon-Secure package could be Restos and other value ETBs instead, but I wanted to remain agnostic to removal. I think this list is pretty loose, but I wanted to try a few things out. It's likely better to just jam all 4 Geist and a 4th Helix.
Have any of you found Counterflux or Settle the Wreckage to be worth a slot, or should I be pursuing some better sideboard options?
4 colonnades is a a bit heavy as well. Most people have to 3. Another field of ruin or sulfur falls could be a good replacement.
Remand is also not terribly popular right now, but I think its still ok.
I can't claim to be a fan of mainboard EE here. I'd rather see a spell snare, the 4th serum, etc. In the board its quite strong thouhh.
I personally have never been a sideboard quellers person. I vastly prefer cliques in the board, and don't like devoting 1/3 of my board to tempo creatures.
I don't like the elspeth in the board much. Something like PnK, ajani vengeant, or 4 mana elspeth has always served me better in geist/tempo lists.
Counterflux is ok. I think its an acceptable sideboard card, and if you expect a lot of BBE, its a good choice.
I've been pretty big on settle in the board recently, and its even better if you have geist.
All in all it looks pretty good though. I think the no cliques/restos/quellers main plan to blank removal is a pretty good choice right now, depending on what you're expecting.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I've always wondered about Gideon OTT and Geist in the same shell and would be interested in testing that myself. I feel Gideon OTT is weak to BBE though, since haste invalidates the fog. I guess if you tick up immidiately he has 4 loyalty though, which is nice. How do you feel about the interaction there?
I've always wanted to make a Jeskai midrange Geist/Walker list work but have a suspicion Esper might just be better suited for it. The pros for Jeskai are obviously reach and spot removal, the pros for esper being discard into Geist or discard into walker.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I am also worried about BBE though.
I think jeskai midrange has some hope, but most superfriends/planeswalker centric builds have never worked out in the past. Theres usually a number of different ways you can take the ideas though, so its possible they're just not fully explored.
I'll dig up some of my old lists tomorrow maybe.
If I do use Gideon of the Trials I'd probably just use 1 and cut a Spell Queller. Not sure how good it can be though. It's probably metagame dependent, but I will give it a try for sure.
I really like the idea of going full big spell control with mana leaks/logic knot/etc and I REALLY want to make Elspeth work because she just wins
People have varied opinions on Elspeth, Sun's Champion at the moment. Personally I think she's always been a Jund killer and not much has changed in that regard.
This list would be a good place to start.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18624&d=316034&f=MO
Note that Janh has a preference for zero-bolt Big Jeskai lists, somewhere in between UW and UWr.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I think a control heavy meta. She's so slow with Jund's removal everywhere. But here's a deck that did quite well recently: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/960061#paper
Yep that's the same list I posted. Jund has only 2 pulses to deal with her, but admittedly BBE helps find them.
I don't particularly like her against control match-ups, mainly because winning a counter war over her is hard, but if she lands it's lights out against blue decks usually.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I think these cards are different enough to be assessed on their own merits.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Modern
Mono U-Tron U
Jeskai Control UWR
EDH
Ezuri, Renegade Leader UG
Tasigur, the Golden Fang UGB
Thanks for the input. I too thought it was odd to be playing 3 SV, but after jamming all the cards I thought I wanted I was left with a cut to make. I thought it might be fine considering the front side of Search does some of what we need SV for, and it's otherwise a fairly low impact card. The 2 Remands also pick up some slack for the missing cantrip.
The main EE could be switched to a miser's Spell Snare. I do like Snare, but the initial thought was to construct the main deck with no potentially dead cards. EE covers so many random annoyances that I thought it could be good. Also frees up a sideboard slot when I move one to the main. There may be more equity to be gained by including the Snare though. I'll try to find room for at least one.
I don't think Counterflux and Disdainful Stroke are really doing the same thing. Generally I don't consider Flux, but the fact that it answers all of BBE had me curious to try it out. Stroke is a much better card in the Titanshift and Tron matchups than Counterflux though.
Some other potential Sideboard cards:
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - Like Counterflux, this card serves as a potential BBE answer. It also has applications in Combo and Control matchups. Provided you can protect it, it also let's your Geists have flash which is nice.
Entrancing Melody - This card has shown in UR control decks, but I've yet to see UWx decks make use of it. Is it because we just have too many better options in white? Primary use I can think of is to steal a Goyf, but I'm sure there are some other nice targets out there.
Control Magic type effects show up in UR because they have trouble dealing with high toughness creatures. namely goyf. back when splinter twin was legal Threads of Disloyalty was a popular sideboard option against jund. blue moon likewise leverages Vedalken Shackles.
i think there are too many high casting cost threats in the format right now for entrancing melody to be worth a sideboard slot. Bribery is also some cool sideboard tech that occasional shows up.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)thats why i dont agree with saying counterflux is just a better version of stroke. because they are only the same 'version' of anything insomuch as they are both permission spells. its like saying negate is just a better version of ceremonious rejection.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I mean it should go without saying, but Jund is Jund because of BBE and K-Command now, far far more than because of Bolt.
Spirits
Especially since Jund was moving further and further off of Bolt until BBE was unbanned, making the sometimes-dead Push a little less valuable relatively.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon