5 mana, but replaces itself, untaps a few lands, mega bounces a creature...I'll be trying him out for sure.
In other news, I cant quit this deck, even if I get frustrated at times with each game being this endurance run as soon as we drop Island and Serum.
seems cool, but with those kind of effects its in direct competition with jace for a slot. if im playing with any non-jace planeswalkers i want them to have their own unique advantages.
one thing i do to keep the deck fresh is do crazy stuff in the sideboard from time to time. side into a combo, or heavy creature packages. for a few FMNs i just sideboarded into a straight up burn deck. swiftspears, lava spikes, and boros charms.
got the idea years ago when a rug scapeshift player at one of the lgs i go to sideboarded into a twin deck.
eventually i want to get the cards for the Gifts Ungiven + Unburial Rites combo, but some of the pieces are a little pricey.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
5 mana, but replaces itself, untaps a few lands, mega bounces a creature...I'll be trying him out for sure.
In other news, I cant quit this deck, even if I get frustrated at times with each game being this endurance run as soon as we drop Island and Serum.
Ummm... he's sweet AF. Tap out for Teferi, un-tap logic knot mana? Yes please.
Also, although it might not matter much, since having any 2 planeswalkers active concurrently is usually a winning position, but his -3 and Jaces' +2 essentially make sure your -3 target goes to the bottom. Then, if you have Teferis' emblem active, brainstorming with Jace exiles 3 permanents!
for me im alright with just telling people the matchup is even and that knowledge of the matchup and good decision making will ultimately be the deciding factor.
what i try to get across to those new to the deck, or those inquiring about its positioning in the meta is that our matchup against grindy midrange decks has never been a slam dunk, not now or even before the unbans. even at the 60-40 you are still basically losing half the time given the players on each side of the table are of equal skill.
this ends up coming as a surprise to people because we are the "control" deck, and therefore should beat up on midrange. ive always said that jeskai is probably the weakest of the 3-color control variants at grinding. our strength lies in dealing with creature aggression, which grixis and esper typically have a little harder time with.
but i agree, we dont really get anywhere just discussing what we think is true, and are better served discussion options such as card choices, sideboard strategies, and general tips in the matchup.
as a side note if you guys wanna see an absolute beating - check out the Jim Davis (jeskai) vs. Brennan Decandio (4c pyro) match from the SCG Dallas coverage. definitely wince-worthy.
where can I watch the game?
ah sorry i meant Ben Nikolich on jeskai, not Jim Davis
Here are some of my thoughts and questions regarding the meta shift towards Jund and BRx decks:
1. What is the problem?
The problem is that the Big Jeskai relies heavily on efficient removals and card advantages. We fall behind when we can't maintain that card advantage. Jeskai will almost always have answers for basically anything in the game, mainly thanks to W. But we can't keep answering threats when we fall behind in card advantage. Our main wincon is depriving our opponents from their resources and putting down recursive, efficient, threats like JTMS and Secure with protection from our counterspells and removals (or just beat them with Snaps). So we have a hard time dealing with better top-ends that can win off of a topdeck like Tron or the "2-for-1" cards like Reality Smashers, Lingering Souls, or Kolaghan's Command. What BBE has done is to make some of those already 2-for-1 cards into 3-for-1's or even more.
2. GY-Hate
As someone mentioned in this thread, UWR is a meta deck (well, so are most of the control decks in the game). We stopped playing GY-hate because there wasn't enough GY strats except for Dredge and Hollow One for awhile in the meta. Plus Logic Knot and Search for Azcanta were too good for us to play cards like Rest in Peace. So where do we go from here? I personally think playing some Relics now make sense, but it's still not the best card for us. I'd like to ask your thoughts on this as GY-strats are really coming back into the meta.
3. Good Cards in the Meta
So, we need more cards that can provide us our main gameplan: card advantage.
Traditionally, when the meta shifted towards more grindy decks, we've relied less on our removals and counterspells and shifted our deck towards the top-end so it was us putting down hard-to-deal-with threats. So Planeswalker cards like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Elspeth, Sun's Champion are first cards to come to my mind. Another cards that have been creeping up are Restoration Angel, Blade Splicer, and Dire Fleet Daredevil. All these cards provide good answers to BBE and its triggers, albeit I don't really like the Splicer. Dire Fleet Daredevil is something that I've recently been very impressed with. First of all, it's a clean answer to BBE as a 2/1 First Strike body. It's also almost always a 2-for-1 like Snapcasters and it's another clock against other control decks. It's also surprisingly good against Taxes decks as First Strike is very relevant. Remand is also a card that's become very good all of a sudden as the meta shifted heavily towards midrange, but I don't know if we really want the card as the Big Jeskai shell. I think the card can be very good in the tempo variants of Jeskai though.
4. What do we cut?
I honestly don't like the 3x JTMS in the deck. It is way too slow and tapping down on turn 4 is a scary idea, especially without something to back it up. It's mostly a very expensive Unsummon or a Brainstorm against some decks. I thin x2 or a one-of is a nice place to start. Logic Knot is also weird atm if we're to play GY-hate. Perhaps we can start playing Mana Leak again, as some lists do. Runed Halo is another card that's super weird atm with so many different threats. It's obviously very good against certain decks, but sometimes I feel like it's eating up a slot for nothing.
I'd like to hear all your thoughts as we start to refine our deck more to the new metagame.
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Decks
Modern
Mono U-Tron U
Jeskai Control UWR
EDH
Ezuri, Renegade Leader UG
Tasigur, the Golden Fang UGB
Halo is so good in a few match ups that I would be hesitant to drop it.
Leak, in combination with the fact people are playing more basics (due to Field of Ruin) and our leaning on Path, has started to become an issue for me. I've dropped mine, and pulled my Negate into Main from my Sideboard.
As to your top point, I've also grabbed 2 Ancestral Vision, and 1 Sphinx Rev, and have those in the side for when I need them against a card advantage heavy match up, also dropping Geist, and 1 Counterflux.
The only remaining issue, is yes the GY hate, but I dont know that we can solve that one easily, Relics may be our best bet.
My main advice is this: even if the sky is falling, it takes a long time to get to the ground.
In Modern, especially in paper, people do not switch decks often. Regardless of how good grindy decks have gotten, the vast majority of players will still be playing what they were prior to the bans, maybe with some slight sideboard alterations. This is true at any level, both LGS and big tournaments.
If you play on a free platform like Cockatrice or XMage, where this monetary barrier does not exist, you surely have noticed that everyone is trying out BBE or Jace and trying to be the top dog on mount durdle. And I've been having a grand old time jamming Burn and winning 80% of games with it, exact same 75 as before the unban.
Don't go losing other MUs because you're trying to win some durdle arms race, very few of your MUs will be jund. IF you want to tackle jund more thoroughly, pick cards that have a wide applicability.
In Modern, especially in paper, people do not switch decks often.
While I agree mostly, that seriously depends on the city and the meta you play. I play in one of the biggest cities in NA with a lot of competitive MTG crowd. My last 1k tournament was half Jund and half JTMS decks. So it does happen when you have enough people with enough resources.
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Decks
Modern
Mono U-Tron U
Jeskai Control UWR
EDH
Ezuri, Renegade Leader UG
Tasigur, the Golden Fang UGB
Online is a different beast from paper, people change decks more often and meta switches faster. But you also kind of prove my point: Going super long in a meta with a boatload of storm and bogles seems like a bad plan. Instead of upping the durdle-ante, you could play some number of Blessed Alliance to hit both Jund and Bogles, and/or Celestial Purge to hit both Jund and Storm. I kind of feel like I'm talking down on people which I really do not intend to do; I genuinely think it is a much better plan to go for higher quality cards vs jund than just upping the quantity of cards you draw in the average game. That also doesn't mean that having Elspeth Sun's Champion in the side is a bad plan, but just don't devote a too large of a part of your deck to just the grindy MUs.
My last 1k tournament was half Jund and half JTMS decks.
So this is just straight up not true, and being hyperbolic does not help here. Even in a very, very grindy meta, I'd be hard pressed to believe Jund and Jace would combine to 20% of the meta. And if that really is true, according to your sig you also own Utron which is Durdlakul, the Aeons Durdled Away, and you should definitely play that.
Nah I dont feel you are talking down to me at all, but Modern is WIDE. You can (like I did today) fire up a game and oh, 8rack, its been awhile....great. I mean I could probably list 30 different decks I have played against since the unban online, all of which have been competitive at various points since the Twin ban.
Thats just how it is when you play online.
I am interested in improving my Jund MU, because it is a popular deck, that is seeing a resurgence.
Im sort of torn bearscape.
I've sort of come to that same conclusion recently (that we need higher quality cards) but I've spent a lot of time in modern losing because I don't have enough cards.
The solution here, is not that we focus less on card advantage, but we replace all of the low quality cards in our lists.
I've posted my most recent list in a couple places, and I have a bit of a write-up on the UW thread (https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/678769-uw-control?page=159#c3203) though there is a lot of other stuff in that post too.
So this is just straight up not true, and being hyperbolic does not help here. Even in a very, very grindy meta, I'd be hard pressed to believe Jund and Jace would combine to 20% of the meta. And if that really is true, according to your sig you also own Utron which is Durdlakul, the Aeons Durdled Away, and you should definitely play that.
Huh? Not getting the last part at all.
Also, you'd be "hard pressed to believe Jund and Jace would combine to 20% of the meta"? Have you been playing in competitive REL on paper lately? It's literally half of what people play. Yes, you're right, I was being hyperbolic, but it's not even close to 20%? You have Grixis, Jeskai, UR, Temur here and Jund and other GRx/BRx on the other and in between you have your typical Tron, Bogles, and Storm. Jace goes into so many paper decks in the meta right now because, well, it's still adapting to the unbans. And people LOVE Jund and most people who were on Death's Shadow are back on it. I would honestly argue that there are more JTMS/BBE decks on paper than online.
It's 1 Dredge, 6x decks with JTMS, and 1 Jund. It was around 60-70 people tournament and I saw at least 6-8 Jund players who didn't make it to Top 8. There was a good showing of Tron too, but nobody made it to Top 8 either.
Edit: GP Madrid results are up and granted, it's a Team Trios event, but there are lots and lots of Jund decks. I'm assuming JTMS had to go with Legacy so not a lot of showing for Modern. Top 16 are as follows: 4x Jund, 1x RG Valakut (with BBE!), 2x RG Eldrazi, 2x Mono G Tron, 2x BR Hollow One, 1x Death's Shadow, 1x Mono White Taxes, 1x Living End, and 1x UB Control. That is 25% Jund and 44% BBE decks.
Im sort of torn bearscape.
I've sort of come to that same conclusion recently (that we need higher quality cards) but I've spent a lot of time in modern losing because I don't have enough cards.
The solution here, is not that we focus less on card advantage, but we replace all of the low quality cards in our lists.
I've posted my most recent list in a couple places, and I have a bit of a write-up on the UW thread (https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/678769-uw-control?page=159#c3203) though there is a lot of other stuff in that post too.
Our decks, much like most of the 'successful' control based ones, are very similar. Slight tweaks of the numbers here or there, though 4 main helix is unique, but I think thats because these are the best cards we can be casting in UWR at the moment I feel.
The point of my post that was decks like yours are bad/doing it wrong.
I don't intend to be mean here, but literally every difference between our lists are things I feel pretty strongly about right now.
I know they're not widely different (they're the same archetype) but if anyone posted an old jeskai nahiri list with 4 av main, you'd probably feel similarly about that as I do about this.
Elspeth is super medium, and terrible mainboard.
4 bolt 2 helix is not the correct split of burn.
Mainboard negate is terrible.
24 lands 0 rev is sub par.
I think your sideboard is kind of a mess as well. The rev in particular is definitely a "main or bust" card for me. Swapping it with the elpseth at the very least would be a major improvement, though there are a number of other sideboard choices you've made that I don't like.
I'd originally cut my 1-of MD Rev from my Jeskai and UW lists as part of accommodating the 2-of Jace, but the more I test, the more I think Cody's right about running one in the 60. With just 4 Walkers, 2 Azcanta, and 1 Secure the Wastes as the "payoff" cards, I found myself spinning my wheels a little too often even in UW with 4 cantrips + 3 Seas and 2 Wall of Omens + 3 Cryptics. Increasing your top-end is always a tenuous proposal in big control, since it's often a liability, but I think it might be worth the slot.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
The point of my post that was decks like yours are bad/doing it wrong.
I don't intend to be mean here, but literally every difference between our lists are things I feel pretty strongly about right now.
I know they're not widely different (they're the same archetype) but if anyone posted an old jeskai nahiri list with 4 av main, you'd probably feel similarly about that as I do about this.
Elspeth is super medium, and terrible mainboard.
4 bolt 2 helix is not the correct split of burn.
Mainboard negate is terrible.
24 lands 0 rev is sub par.
I think your sideboard is kind of a mess as well. The rev in particular is definitely a "main or bust" card for me. Swapping it with the elpseth at the very least would be a major improvement, though there are a number of other sideboard choices you've made that I don't like.
I appreciate the feedback, but I certainly cannot agree on a few of these things right now, based on what I continue to play against online, I was thinking about going down 3/3 on Bolt/Helix, but I've never liked 4 Main on Helix.
What sideboard options do you find most incorrect? Its been a lot of minor tweaks, from Rev main, to out of the list, to Side, to multiple Purge, to multiple Alliance, ect ect.
I'm not sold, on many things. :]
EDIT: I almost never hate Snare, its been one of the most consistent performers for a very long period. When Goyf started showing up again, well thats an optimal target.
I think pre-jace, cutting rev was by and large correct.
I no longer think it is correct. Its more important than ever.
I wont repeat everything I said in the post I linked, but having a spell to immediately fling us ahead has been valuable very, very often.
I've liked spell snare since forever.
Its had its ups and downs, but I think its pretty decent right now.
That being said, I tend to play against more company decks than the meta at large, which colors my opinion. That being said, both storm and humans, jund and UW/X, affinity, burn, etc, all present a large number of targets. At worst, you'll usually be able to throw it away at something game 1, and board it out games 2/3. Rarely does it actually rot in your hand forever, especially now with jace.
I think sideboard AV is pretty weak in general. There are times when I would do it, but not now, with this deck.
I think settle the wreckage is pretty nice vs all of the hollow one decks (as well as all of the haste creatures, bbe, hazoret, etc) that I would play it over a wrath of god in the board, especially since you have blessed alliance/runed halo to deal with thrun. Thats not terribly significant though.
Shattering spree isn't a good card at all in jeskai. By force is going to be better 99% of the time, but I would probably never play that either. Affinity is already a great matchup (thats covered by settle), but ceremonious rejection hits all of the artifact decks + tron/eldrazi. Stony silence is quite strong vs a number of decks as well.
I also dislike abrade in jeskai, for similar reasons. It doesn't overlap well in general. Wear//tear being another answer to blood moon, hitting things like detention sphere, as well as all of the artifacts. Abrade's main strength is its ability to be mainboared, but even still, we have access to both helix and wear//tear which puts abrade in an awkward spot.
I also mentioned my dislike of rev in the board.
Another clique is quite strong right now, disdainful stroke is good, I mentioned flashfreeze earlier as well, that I've yet to play with recently, but looks very appealing on paper.
Engineered explosives is also one of my favorite cards after a meta changes, because its essentially a jank-killer. It effectively deals with a huge variety of cards, not to mention thats its genuinely good in plenty of matchups (humans, lantern, etc).
Lastly, I realize that I some times come across as pretty harsh or mean. I don't really intend that, but a lot of these things are things that I feel pretty strongly about, and I think generally trying to walk softly when giving criticism reduces the effectiveness.
Is there another post where you updated our opinions on your own deck? Other the disparity between Bolt/Helix, I look at my list, I look at yours, and the arguments you make, and its a lot of the same adjustments, test's and tweaks I've made. 2 + 1 Walkers vs 2 Walkers, 3 Snaps or 4 Snaps, Rev in, side, out, etc. I've never liked 3 Knot, and was on 2 + 1 Leak, 2 + 1 Negate (as now) and even 2 + 1 Counterflux at one point.
If the issue you take is about Rev and/or Elspeth, I can see that too, its just where I've landed today. :]
EDIT: Appreciate the further outlining, I dont take offense if things are at least explained after a position taken. I dont have EE, but meant to pick one up and it had sold out. I'll grab one online.
seems cool, but with those kind of effects its in direct competition with jace for a slot. if im playing with any non-jace planeswalkers i want them to have their own unique advantages.
one thing i do to keep the deck fresh is do crazy stuff in the sideboard from time to time. side into a combo, or heavy creature packages. for a few FMNs i just sideboarded into a straight up burn deck. swiftspears, lava spikes, and boros charms.
got the idea years ago when a rug scapeshift player at one of the lgs i go to sideboarded into a twin deck.
eventually i want to get the cards for the Gifts Ungiven + Unburial Rites combo, but some of the pieces are a little pricey.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Ummm... he's sweet AF. Tap out for Teferi, un-tap logic knot mana? Yes please.
Also, although it might not matter much, since having any 2 planeswalkers active concurrently is usually a winning position, but his -3 and Jaces' +2 essentially make sure your -3 target goes to the bottom. Then, if you have Teferis' emblem active, brainstorming with Jace exiles 3 permanents!
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
thans man
1. What is the problem?
The problem is that the Big Jeskai relies heavily on efficient removals and card advantages. We fall behind when we can't maintain that card advantage. Jeskai will almost always have answers for basically anything in the game, mainly thanks to W. But we can't keep answering threats when we fall behind in card advantage. Our main wincon is depriving our opponents from their resources and putting down recursive, efficient, threats like JTMS and Secure with protection from our counterspells and removals (or just beat them with Snaps). So we have a hard time dealing with better top-ends that can win off of a topdeck like Tron or the "2-for-1" cards like Reality Smashers, Lingering Souls, or Kolaghan's Command. What BBE has done is to make some of those already 2-for-1 cards into 3-for-1's or even more.
2. GY-Hate
As someone mentioned in this thread, UWR is a meta deck (well, so are most of the control decks in the game). We stopped playing GY-hate because there wasn't enough GY strats except for Dredge and Hollow One for awhile in the meta. Plus Logic Knot and Search for Azcanta were too good for us to play cards like Rest in Peace. So where do we go from here? I personally think playing some Relics now make sense, but it's still not the best card for us. I'd like to ask your thoughts on this as GY-strats are really coming back into the meta.
3. Good Cards in the Meta
So, we need more cards that can provide us our main gameplan: card advantage.
Traditionally, when the meta shifted towards more grindy decks, we've relied less on our removals and counterspells and shifted our deck towards the top-end so it was us putting down hard-to-deal-with threats. So Planeswalker cards like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Elspeth, Sun's Champion are first cards to come to my mind. Another cards that have been creeping up are Restoration Angel, Blade Splicer, and Dire Fleet Daredevil. All these cards provide good answers to BBE and its triggers, albeit I don't really like the Splicer. Dire Fleet Daredevil is something that I've recently been very impressed with. First of all, it's a clean answer to BBE as a 2/1 First Strike body. It's also almost always a 2-for-1 like Snapcasters and it's another clock against other control decks. It's also surprisingly good against Taxes decks as First Strike is very relevant. Remand is also a card that's become very good all of a sudden as the meta shifted heavily towards midrange, but I don't know if we really want the card as the Big Jeskai shell. I think the card can be very good in the tempo variants of Jeskai though.
4. What do we cut?
I honestly don't like the 3x JTMS in the deck. It is way too slow and tapping down on turn 4 is a scary idea, especially without something to back it up. It's mostly a very expensive Unsummon or a Brainstorm against some decks. I thin x2 or a one-of is a nice place to start. Logic Knot is also weird atm if we're to play GY-hate. Perhaps we can start playing Mana Leak again, as some lists do. Runed Halo is another card that's super weird atm with so many different threats. It's obviously very good against certain decks, but sometimes I feel like it's eating up a slot for nothing.
I'd like to hear all your thoughts as we start to refine our deck more to the new metagame.
Modern
Mono U-Tron U
Jeskai Control UWR
EDH
Ezuri, Renegade Leader UG
Tasigur, the Golden Fang UGB
Leak, in combination with the fact people are playing more basics (due to Field of Ruin) and our leaning on Path, has started to become an issue for me. I've dropped mine, and pulled my Negate into Main from my Sideboard.
As to your top point, I've also grabbed 2 Ancestral Vision, and 1 Sphinx Rev, and have those in the side for when I need them against a card advantage heavy match up, also dropping Geist, and 1 Counterflux.
The only remaining issue, is yes the GY hate, but I dont know that we can solve that one easily, Relics may be our best bet.
Spirits
In Modern, especially in paper, people do not switch decks often. Regardless of how good grindy decks have gotten, the vast majority of players will still be playing what they were prior to the bans, maybe with some slight sideboard alterations. This is true at any level, both LGS and big tournaments.
If you play on a free platform like Cockatrice or XMage, where this monetary barrier does not exist, you surely have noticed that everyone is trying out BBE or Jace and trying to be the top dog on mount durdle. And I've been having a grand old time jamming Burn and winning 80% of games with it, exact same 75 as before the unban.
Don't go losing other MUs because you're trying to win some durdle arms race, very few of your MUs will be jund. IF you want to tackle jund more thoroughly, pick cards that have a wide applicability.
While I agree mostly, that seriously depends on the city and the meta you play. I play in one of the biggest cities in NA with a lot of competitive MTG crowd. My last 1k tournament was half Jund and half JTMS decks. So it does happen when you have enough people with enough resources.
Modern
Mono U-Tron U
Jeskai Control UWR
EDH
Ezuri, Renegade Leader UG
Tasigur, the Golden Fang UGB
1. Storm (its very popular on MTGO)
2. Jund with BBE, 3 Fulminators and heavy K-Command
3. Jank that is running Field of Ruin
4. Affinity and Bogles
I think people pivot on MTGO faster than in paper, as you have more of a grinder crowd there.
I do however, wish to be King of Mount Durdle.
Spirits
So this is just straight up not true, and being hyperbolic does not help here. Even in a very, very grindy meta, I'd be hard pressed to believe Jund and Jace would combine to 20% of the meta. And if that really is true, according to your sig you also own Utron which is Durdlakul, the Aeons Durdled Away, and you should definitely play that.
Thats just how it is when you play online.
I am interested in improving my Jund MU, because it is a popular deck, that is seeing a resurgence.
Spirits
I've sort of come to that same conclusion recently (that we need higher quality cards) but I've spent a lot of time in modern losing because I don't have enough cards.
The solution here, is not that we focus less on card advantage, but we replace all of the low quality cards in our lists.
I've posted my most recent list in a couple places, and I have a bit of a write-up on the UW thread (https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/678769-uw-control?page=159#c3203) though there is a lot of other stuff in that post too.
Huh? Not getting the last part at all.
Also, you'd be "hard pressed to believe Jund and Jace would combine to 20% of the meta"? Have you been playing in competitive REL on paper lately? It's literally half of what people play. Yes, you're right, I was being hyperbolic, but it's not even close to 20%? You have Grixis, Jeskai, UR, Temur here and Jund and other GRx/BRx on the other and in between you have your typical Tron, Bogles, and Storm. Jace goes into so many paper decks in the meta right now because, well, it's still adapting to the unbans. And people LOVE Jund and most people who were on Death's Shadow are back on it. I would honestly argue that there are more JTMS/BBE decks on paper than online.
If you don't believe me, you can check the Top 8 list here: http://manadeprived.com/showdown-recap-modern-6/
It's 1 Dredge, 6x decks with JTMS, and 1 Jund. It was around 60-70 people tournament and I saw at least 6-8 Jund players who didn't make it to Top 8. There was a good showing of Tron too, but nobody made it to Top 8 either.
Edit: GP Madrid results are up and granted, it's a Team Trios event, but there are lots and lots of Jund decks. I'm assuming JTMS had to go with Legacy so not a lot of showing for Modern. Top 16 are as follows: 4x Jund, 1x RG Valakut (with BBE!), 2x RG Eldrazi, 2x Mono G Tron, 2x BR Hollow One, 1x Death's Shadow, 1x Mono White Taxes, 1x Living End, and 1x UB Control. That is 25% Jund and 44% BBE decks.
Modern
Mono U-Tron U
Jeskai Control UWR
EDH
Ezuri, Renegade Leader UG
Tasigur, the Golden Fang UGB
Our decks, much like most of the 'successful' control based ones, are very similar. Slight tweaks of the numbers here or there, though 4 main helix is unique, but I think thats because these are the best cards we can be casting in UWR at the moment I feel.
EDIT: For context.
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 Plains
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
//Draw
4 Serum Visions
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Spell Snare
3 Cryptic Command
2 Logic Knot
1 Negate
//Removal
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Electrolyze
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Lightning Helix
//Finish
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Runed Halo
2 Dispel
2 Ancestral Vision
1 Counterflux
1 Wrath of God
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Shattering Spree
1 Abrade
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sphinx's Revelation
EDIT: First match against Jund, and Elspeth carried me home both times this feels pretty good.
Spirits
I don't intend to be mean here, but literally every difference between our lists are things I feel pretty strongly about right now.
I know they're not widely different (they're the same archetype) but if anyone posted an old jeskai nahiri list with 4 av main, you'd probably feel similarly about that as I do about this.
Elspeth is super medium, and terrible mainboard.
4 bolt 2 helix is not the correct split of burn.
Mainboard negate is terrible.
24 lands 0 rev is sub par.
I think your sideboard is kind of a mess as well. The rev in particular is definitely a "main or bust" card for me. Swapping it with the elpseth at the very least would be a major improvement, though there are a number of other sideboard choices you've made that I don't like.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I appreciate the feedback, but I certainly cannot agree on a few of these things right now, based on what I continue to play against online, I was thinking about going down 3/3 on Bolt/Helix, but I've never liked 4 Main on Helix.
What sideboard options do you find most incorrect? Its been a lot of minor tweaks, from Rev main, to out of the list, to Side, to multiple Purge, to multiple Alliance, ect ect.
I'm not sold, on many things. :]
EDIT: I almost never hate Snare, its been one of the most consistent performers for a very long period. When Goyf started showing up again, well thats an optimal target.
Spirits
I no longer think it is correct. Its more important than ever.
I wont repeat everything I said in the post I linked, but having a spell to immediately fling us ahead has been valuable very, very often.
I've liked spell snare since forever.
Its had its ups and downs, but I think its pretty decent right now.
That being said, I tend to play against more company decks than the meta at large, which colors my opinion. That being said, both storm and humans, jund and UW/X, affinity, burn, etc, all present a large number of targets. At worst, you'll usually be able to throw it away at something game 1, and board it out games 2/3. Rarely does it actually rot in your hand forever, especially now with jace.
I think sideboard AV is pretty weak in general. There are times when I would do it, but not now, with this deck.
I think settle the wreckage is pretty nice vs all of the hollow one decks (as well as all of the haste creatures, bbe, hazoret, etc) that I would play it over a wrath of god in the board, especially since you have blessed alliance/runed halo to deal with thrun. Thats not terribly significant though.
Shattering spree isn't a good card at all in jeskai. By force is going to be better 99% of the time, but I would probably never play that either. Affinity is already a great matchup (thats covered by settle), but ceremonious rejection hits all of the artifact decks + tron/eldrazi. Stony silence is quite strong vs a number of decks as well.
I also dislike abrade in jeskai, for similar reasons. It doesn't overlap well in general. Wear//tear being another answer to blood moon, hitting things like detention sphere, as well as all of the artifacts. Abrade's main strength is its ability to be mainboared, but even still, we have access to both helix and wear//tear which puts abrade in an awkward spot.
I also mentioned my dislike of rev in the board.
Another clique is quite strong right now, disdainful stroke is good, I mentioned flashfreeze earlier as well, that I've yet to play with recently, but looks very appealing on paper.
Engineered explosives is also one of my favorite cards after a meta changes, because its essentially a jank-killer. It effectively deals with a huge variety of cards, not to mention thats its genuinely good in plenty of matchups (humans, lantern, etc).
Lastly, I realize that I some times come across as pretty harsh or mean. I don't really intend that, but a lot of these things are things that I feel pretty strongly about, and I think generally trying to walk softly when giving criticism reduces the effectiveness.
If the issue you take is about Rev and/or Elspeth, I can see that too, its just where I've landed today. :]
EDIT: Appreciate the further outlining, I dont take offense if things are at least explained after a position taken. I dont have EE, but meant to pick one up and it had sold out. I'll grab one online.
Spirits
This post (which is the same one linked to above) has some of my thoughts on jeskai (as well as other decks).
If you have any specific questions, go ahead and ask.