the idea to cut 1 mana cantrips comes up every so often.
its a power vs. consistency trade-off. the better your draw is the less there is a need for cantrips. so it becomes easy to theorycraft the deck to the point where you ask yourself why you arent just playing more 'answer' cards.
the reality ends up being that you lose equity on those games with below average draws, resulting in a net loss for your win percentage.
I think the cantrips are kind of necessary. Especially in Modern, where we don't have powerful answers for everything. This way, we can try to minimize our chances of drawing Supreme Verdict when we're facing Tron, Logic Knot when we're facing Merfolks, Path when we're facing Ad Nauseam, Cryptic Command when we're facing Affinity, etc.
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Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Watched Nikolich play a few games with jeskai tempo on twitch and a few copies of Jace last night- looked a little underwhelming- spell queller is just a fragile card in a heavy bolt and heavy removal environment and I don't like how my entire gameplan can fall apart because of it. Anyway, I think Jace is excellent in the "big" azcanta jeskai lists more because it gives you a lot of card selection to help you dig for the answers that you need at any given moment. It makes more sense to me that I can brainstorm to find my supreme verdict or a counterspell when I really need it in various board states.
Anyway, here is where I've landed with the first edition of the list- I think 3 logic knots is a little sketchy- might need to find a replacement for one of them- maybe a negate or mana leak I guess? Not sure what's best in the current environment.
Basically ended up cutting cards like rev, gearhulk, and other walkers in favor of jace because it yields greater consistency in a larger amount of scenarios than those cards did. Left in a secure the wastes because it's an all star in big jeskai. Haven't worked on a sideboard yet.
I really like your list. It's pretty much what I plan on running. I do believe that Geist should be in the 75 somewhere. It's just one more thing to help close out games.
Personally,IMHO, I feel 3 Jace isn't correct and I would rather go down to 2 but again that's just preference.
Watched Nikolich play a few games with jeskai tempo on twitch and a few copies of Jace last night- looked a little underwhelming- spell queller is just a fragile card in a heavy bolt and heavy removal environment and I don't like how my entire gameplan can fall apart because of it. Anyway, I think Jace is excellent in the "big" azcanta jeskai lists more because it gives you a lot of card selection to help you dig for the answers that you need at any given moment. It makes more sense to me that I can brainstorm to find my supreme verdict or a counterspell when I really need it in various board states.
Anyway, here is where I've landed with the first edition of the list- I think 3 logic knots is a little sketchy- might need to find a replacement for one of them- maybe a negate or mana leak I guess? Not sure what's best in the current environment.
Basically ended up cutting cards like rev, gearhulk, and other walkers in favor of jace because it yields greater consistency in a larger amount of scenarios than those cards did. Left in a secure the wastes because it's an all star in big jeskai. Haven't worked on a sideboard yet.
I like the list.
Mine is the same shell with the following changes;
-1 Spell Snare
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+1 Field of Ruin
+1 Negate
+1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
Watched Nikolich play a few games with jeskai tempo on twitch and a few copies of Jace last night- looked a little underwhelming- spell queller is just a fragile card in a heavy bolt and heavy removal environment and I don't like how my entire gameplan can fall apart because of it. Anyway, I think Jace is excellent in the "big" azcanta jeskai lists more because it gives you a lot of card selection to help you dig for the answers that you need at any given moment. It makes more sense to me that I can brainstorm to find my supreme verdict or a counterspell when I really need it in various board states.
Anyway, here is where I've landed with the first edition of the list- I think 3 logic knots is a little sketchy- might need to find a replacement for one of them- maybe a negate or mana leak I guess? Not sure what's best in the current environment.
Basically ended up cutting cards like rev, gearhulk, and other walkers in favor of jace because it yields greater consistency in a larger amount of scenarios than those cards did. Left in a secure the wastes because it's an all star in big jeskai. Haven't worked on a sideboard yet.
I like the list.
Mine is the same shell with the following changes;
-1 Spell Snare
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+1 Field of Ruin
+1 Negate
+1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Okay so I think I'm comfortable in my list.. it is very similar to this shell.. except I run two Jace and one Elspeth mainboard. I have ran this build for the past several days against a lot of the top format decks and I think that it works really well.. I am also running 1x negate as you mentioned and have chosen to run 4x lightning bolt instead of 3x by cutting to 1x electrolyze because I think having the bolt snap bolt plan will be super good against rival jaces and jund
How do you feel about Gideon? I really like Elspeth because by turn 6/7 most matches are in our favor or our opponent has exhausted most of their resources so dropping her is just instant value.
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
How do you feel about Gideon? I really like Elspeth because by turn 6/7 most matches are in our favor or our opponent has exhausted most of their resources so dropping her is just instant value.
Gideon has always performed for me. He synergises well with Secure the Wastes.
Now he is even better because his +1 kills a Jace and his +0 protects himself (and a friendly jace) from a hasty BBE.
Edit; Also want to mention that with 6 mana available I am always more comfortable casting 4cmc Gideon while representing Logic Knot than I am tapping out for Elspeth and going shields down. We can't always expect our opponent to have no gas in the tank by t6-7. Gideon on the whole is just more aggressive and flexible than Elspeth, while still offering a form of defense. That's why you'll find me main-decking Gideon and side-boarding Elspeth.
ETron is it exactly, and it works fine against Tron as well. Leak vs Negate, I dont know I've never felt terrible about my 1 Leak, its never burned me I guess. :]
I'm ok with either mix though, I've never felt a need to go up to 3 Dispel though.
yeah tuning the counter suite is always an ongoing process, and pretty much impossible to get 100% right. the same goes for the removal spells.
as for leak vs. knot: while logic knot has pretty much supplanted mana leak as our 2cmc counter of choice, it doesn't mean that it is always better or even correct to play over mana leak.
for instance against hyper aggressive strategies like zoo or burn. fetch/shocking to get UU online could end up costing you the game.
regardless ill be interested to see if this deck can remain tier 1 in the coming weeks/months. ive entertained the idea of adding a small creature package to the deck for more midrangy elements, but nothing i come up with seems appealing.
im definitely a fan of the 2 jace 1 gideon split. that seems pretty sweet
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Watched Nikolich play a few games with jeskai tempo on twitch and a few copies of Jace last night- looked a little underwhelming- spell queller is just a fragile card in a heavy bolt and heavy removal environment and I don't like how my entire gameplan can fall apart because of it. Anyway, I think Jace is excellent in the "big" azcanta jeskai lists more because it gives you a lot of card selection to help you dig for the answers that you need at any given moment. It makes more sense to me that I can brainstorm to find my supreme verdict or a counterspell when I really need it in various board states.
Anyway, here is where I've landed with the first edition of the list- I think 3 logic knots is a little sketchy- might need to find a replacement for one of them- maybe a negate or mana leak I guess? Not sure what's best in the current environment.
Basically ended up cutting cards like rev, gearhulk, and other walkers in favor of jace because it yields greater consistency in a larger amount of scenarios than those cards did. Left in a secure the wastes because it's an all star in big jeskai. Haven't worked on a sideboard yet.
where were you watching him play?
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Okay so I feel like I'm tackling this on a different side then everyone else in here, however I really want to do a 2/1 split of planes walkers in the mainboard. Right now it is two JtMS and then Elspeth and then an extra jace in the side
However: what I'm wondering is if anyone has tried chandra in our list? It seems really effective with Jace given that you can exile away bad cards for a 2 damage ping, or use her additional mana each turn.. plus she has spot creature removal and an ult that wins games
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Okay so I feel like I'm tackling this on a different side then everyone else in here, however I really want to do a 2/1 split of planes walkers in the mainboard. Right now it is two JtMS and then Elspeth and then an extra jace in the side
However: what I'm wondering is if anyone has tried chandra in our list? It seems really effective with Jace given that you can exile away bad cards for a 2 damage ping, or use her additional mana each turn.. plus she has spot creature removal and an ult that wins games
The issue with Chandra, ToD has always been her disharmony with the large number of cards we would rather her not reveal and force us to play in our own main phase. I mean, imagine flipping a Cryptic in your main phase. You turned one of your best reactive cards into shock.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
This is where I'm at right now, I took some of your advice and switched up my Sideboard Counters. I was on a run where I faced Valakut x 2 and Ponza/Valakut x 2 with BBE, and only in the last game had I made the swap online. Counterflux can really do work against BBE.
Otherwise, I'm only unsure on Revelation in the side,and the Detention Sphere/Celestial Purge cards. I think I want one of them to be a Shattering Spree, and maybe Clique, but I'm not sure.
I also pulled Field of Ruin out as it screwed me 3 games in a row and I tilted, I almost went back to Crumble in the Side, but I dont know if its worth it, it felt slow a long time ago.
This is where I'm at right now, I took some of your advice and switched up my Sideboard Counters. I was on a run where I faced Valakut x 2 and Ponza/Valakut x 2 with BBE, and only in the last game had I made the swap online. Counterflux can really do work against BBE.
Otherwise, I'm only unsure on Revelation in the side,and the Detention Sphere/Celestial Purge cards. I think I want one of them to be a Shattering Spree, and maybe Clique, but I'm not sure.
I also pulled Field of Ruin out as it screwed me 3 games in a row and I tilted, I almost went back to Crumble in the Side, but I dont know if its worth it, it felt slow a long time ago.
I think that with Search for Azcanta and Jace, the need for a card like Sphinxs Rev has closed. I would view it as a flex card for grindy MU's. I also worry for Ajani's place in the current meta, I'd be interested in how he lines up vs. Jace or BBE decks?
On field of Ruin... I firmly believe that if you run more than 1 colorless land, then you need to go beyond 24 lands. 25 at the minimum (note - minimum). So if you try them again think of any beyond the first as occupying a non-land slot, and take your deckbuilding from there.
Crumble to Dust - not great. Could be viable with 2-4x MD Spreading Seas, but on it's own not worth it I think.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
yeah i like that list. clean lookin, and the numbers make sense.
ajani is an odd inclusion, but i think you can make a case for any number of the 4 cmc walkers.
not much to say about the sideboard. though i think replacing the supreme verdict for a Wrath of God is worth considering. both to diversify against Meddling Mage, and give you an out to Thrun, the Last Troll
seems like mana denial is everywhere these days. not sure if i should up the basic count or add another fetch.
yeah crumble to dust is hot garbage. id run Molten Rain before crumble
i reaaaaally dont wanna run spreading seas, but it might be a necessary evil.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
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I think the cantrips are kind of necessary. Especially in Modern, where we don't have powerful answers for everything. This way, we can try to minimize our chances of drawing Supreme Verdict when we're facing Tron, Logic Knot when we're facing Merfolks, Path when we're facing Ad Nauseam, Cryptic Command when we're facing Affinity, etc.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Anyway, here is where I've landed with the first edition of the list- I think 3 logic knots is a little sketchy- might need to find a replacement for one of them- maybe a negate or mana leak I guess? Not sure what's best in the current environment.
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Field of Ruin
4x Flooded Strand
1x sulfur falls
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
3x Cryptic Command
2x Electrolyze
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Logic Knot
4x Path to Exile
1x Secure the Wastes
1x Spell Snare
4x Serum Visions
2x Supreme Verdict
Creature (5)
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
Enchantment (2)
2x Search for Azcanta
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Basically ended up cutting cards like rev, gearhulk, and other walkers in favor of jace because it yields greater consistency in a larger amount of scenarios than those cards did. Left in a secure the wastes because it's an all star in big jeskai. Haven't worked on a sideboard yet.
Personally,IMHO, I feel 3 Jace isn't correct and I would rather go down to 2 but again that's just preference.
I like the list.
Mine is the same shell with the following changes;
-1 Spell Snare
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+1 Field of Ruin
+1 Negate
+1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Okay so I think I'm comfortable in my list.. it is very similar to this shell.. except I run two Jace and one Elspeth mainboard. I have ran this build for the past several days against a lot of the top format decks and I think that it works really well.. I am also running 1x negate as you mentioned and have chosen to run 4x lightning bolt instead of 3x by cutting to 1x electrolyze because I think having the bolt snap bolt plan will be super good against rival jaces and jund
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Ventilions Clique
PLANESWALKERS:
2x Jace, the Mindsculptor
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
SPELLS:
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
1x Electrolze
4x Path to Exile
2x Supreme Verdict
2x Search for Azcanta
4x Serum Visions
2x Logic Knot
1x Negate
1x Spell snare
3x Cryptic Command
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
The first thing I'll look at is -1 Cryptic -1 Logic Knot for +2 Spell Snare.
Jeskai Control (U/W/R): Jeskai Jace
Maindeck (60)
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Secure the Wastes
4 Serum Visions
3 Lightning Helix
3 Logic Knot
1 Negate
2 Electrolyze
3 Cryptic Command
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
Sideboard (15)
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
1 Wear // Tear
1 Counterflux
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Runed Halo
1 Detention Sphere
Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/35abff77-5284-4040-90aa-949063092097
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Gideon has always performed for me. He synergises well with Secure the Wastes.
Now he is even better because his +1 kills a Jace and his +0 protects himself (and a friendly jace) from a hasty BBE.
Edit; Also want to mention that with 6 mana available I am always more comfortable casting 4cmc Gideon while representing Logic Knot than I am tapping out for Elspeth and going shields down. We can't always expect our opponent to have no gas in the tank by t6-7. Gideon on the whole is just more aggressive and flexible than Elspeth, while still offering a form of defense. That's why you'll find me main-decking Gideon and side-boarding Elspeth.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
3-4 Cryptic, 2-3 Logic, 0-2 Leak/Negate, 1-2 Snares, now that we have 2 or 3 Jace, seems to be pretty common.
I'm at 3 cryptic, 2 Logic, 1 Leak, 2 Snare in the main, with 2 Dispel, 2 Disdain, 1 Counterflux in the side, and I dont feel I hurt for counters.
I do believe Secure at 1 should always be around, its huge when it comes down late game and almost is a scoop on cast.
Spirits
I'm ok with either mix though, I've never felt a need to go up to 3 Dispel though.
Spirits
as for leak vs. knot: while logic knot has pretty much supplanted mana leak as our 2cmc counter of choice, it doesn't mean that it is always better or even correct to play over mana leak.
for instance against hyper aggressive strategies like zoo or burn. fetch/shocking to get UU online could end up costing you the game.
regardless ill be interested to see if this deck can remain tier 1 in the coming weeks/months. ive entertained the idea of adding a small creature package to the deck for more midrangy elements, but nothing i come up with seems appealing.
im definitely a fan of the 2 jace 1 gideon split. that seems pretty sweet
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)where were you watching him play?
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
Look for BenPatNik on Twitch, he started streaming recently.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
However: what I'm wondering is if anyone has tried chandra in our list? It seems really effective with Jace given that you can exile away bad cards for a 2 damage ping, or use her additional mana each turn.. plus she has spot creature removal and an ult that wins games
The issue with Chandra, ToD has always been her disharmony with the large number of cards we would rather her not reveal and force us to play in our own main phase. I mean, imagine flipping a Cryptic in your main phase. You turned one of your best reactive cards into shock.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Otherwise, I'm only unsure on Revelation in the side,and the Detention Sphere/Celestial Purge cards. I think I want one of them to be a Shattering Spree, and maybe Clique, but I'm not sure.
I also pulled Field of Ruin out as it screwed me 3 games in a row and I tilted, I almost went back to Crumble in the Side, but I dont know if its worth it, it felt slow a long time ago.
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
//Draw
4 Serum Visions
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
2 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
//Removal
4 Path to Exile
2 Supreme Verdict
//Burn
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Electrolyze
//Finish
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Secure the Wastes
2 Dispel
2 Counterflux
1 Negate
2 Detention Sphere
2 Celestial Purge
2 Runed Halo
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Wear//Tear
Spirits
Hey mate, nice list!
I think that with Search for Azcanta and Jace, the need for a card like Sphinxs Rev has closed. I would view it as a flex card for grindy MU's. I also worry for Ajani's place in the current meta, I'd be interested in how he lines up vs. Jace or BBE decks?
On field of Ruin... I firmly believe that if you run more than 1 colorless land, then you need to go beyond 24 lands. 25 at the minimum (note - minimum). So if you try them again think of any beyond the first as occupying a non-land slot, and take your deckbuilding from there.
Crumble to Dust - not great. Could be viable with 2-4x MD Spreading Seas, but on it's own not worth it I think.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
ajani is an odd inclusion, but i think you can make a case for any number of the 4 cmc walkers.
not much to say about the sideboard. though i think replacing the supreme verdict for a Wrath of God is worth considering. both to diversify against Meddling Mage, and give you an out to Thrun, the Last Troll
seems like mana denial is everywhere these days. not sure if i should up the basic count or add another fetch.
yeah crumble to dust is hot garbage. id run Molten Rain before crumble
i reaaaaally dont wanna run spreading seas, but it might be a necessary evil.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)