if you're going to use two colorless sources... you should use GQ instead of tec edge since you can at least pseudo-fetch a basic if you really need it..
i don't think there's any harm in using one.. but two is going to get you in trouble...
I am still trying to find the optimal mix of serum visions and opt. I really like the 22 land version, but my gut is that's too few lands And too greedy even with 8 cantrips.
I want to test the following more extensively: 22 lands and 8 cantrips. 23 lands and 7 cantrips. And finally 24 lands and 6 cantrips.
Interesting... thanks for the deck list. Maybe I'm not so crazy for trying both xD.
I do think that guy was super greedy for playing x3 collonades and only 22 lands though 0_o
agree with all except for the part about Chandra's ult. It doesn't have to be a red spell. Any spell you cast deals 5 damage through emblem, not only the red ones. Btw I didn't notice previously but the arid mesa is a lot worse than the full set of scalding tarn since you are running a lot of blue spells plus 3 cryptic main deck.
Yep, you're correct on Chandra's ult.
Arid mesa is a fine budget choice and can help with RR and WW sideboard cards - his list has Anger of the Gods, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Runed Halo and Supreme Verdict. But you're right here too, with only 22 lands there shouldn't be any compromises on the mana base, so arid mesa and 2 colourless sources are probably risky for his list.
Took the below deck to Sunday night modern. Went 3-1. Beat Jeskai Delver, Jeskai Nahiri, and Scapeshift. Lost vs Abzan (very close three games, messed up in game 3 giving him the win. Izzet staticastered lingering souls with him having enough mana to township. Put me too far behind to recover. Probably could have raced him had I not done that...). I am in LOVE with multiple cantrips. Still not sure the right combination + lands, but I am fairly certain we want to be playing some number of both.
I'll take the Chandras out, maybe put 24 Opt / 2 Serum using these slots
As for the Arid Mesa, I don't have the Tarns yet, too pricey to pick up now, but in the enar future I'll put them in place of the Mesas
if you happen to have polluted delta's, those are better than arid mesa
I don't know how that's supposed to make any sense. Fetching a basic island cannot be that important.
Depends on who you face. If you face any deck with bloodmoon or burn, fetching basic island could be very important.
I think he was joking about it
I do not get sarcasm... my apologies
Next week I plan on taking my jeskai list with 23 lands and 7 cantrips to a modern 1k. I'll post another tournament report.
So far in my play testing I've come to three conclusions:
1). I feel like we want at a minimum 3 colonnades. Very important since we are creature light.
2). Running 22 lands is super greedy, especially with 3 collonades even if you are running 8 cantrips. I think you can get away eith it, but it's far to greedy for my own personal taste.
3). Running more than 4 cantrips can be awkward at times, especially when your opener hand is two lands and three cantrips. But I feel like the benefits outweigh the cost. Especially against other grindy matchups. Jund, abzan, and the mirror feel incredibly smoother.
In my old lists, I've always run lighthouse to help these grindy matchups. With more than 4 cantrips, It's not needed.
I'll take the Chandras out, maybe put 24 Opt / 2 Serum using these slots
As for the Arid Mesa, I don't have the Tarns yet, too pricey to pick up now, but in the enar future I'll put them in place of the Mesas
if you happen to have polluted delta's, those are better than arid mesa
I don't know how that's supposed to make any sense. Fetching a basic island cannot be that important.
Depends on who you face. If you face any deck with bloodmoon or burn, fetching basic island could be very important.
I think he was joking about it
No, I wasn't. Assuming I don't have Scalding Tarn, I would rather play Arid Mesa than Polluted Delta if I already have a set of Flooded Strand.
If you're facing a Blood Moon, you're still relying on sideboard cards to win regardless of the situation or at least reaching turn 2 uninterrupted. I can't think of a single Blood Moon where that's not true.
I generally disagree. Either choice cuts the player off of three lands. Polluted Delta stops you from getting 1 plains, 1 mountain, 1 sacred foundry that is common in most lists, Arid Mesa stops you from getting 3 islands from the Harlan list. As a result, Polluted Delta allows you to fetch an island unconditionally, which I think is often crucial against many aggressive decks, and only cuts individuals off from Sacred Foundry. Arid Mesa allows you to have a better shock-based early game if you need a Foundry, but makes you take more damage in the later turns to get an untapped blue source to cast Cryptic Commands. I personally feel that the easier access to blue mana if needed at a lower life cost more beneficial- though, naturally, do what you feel is most effective for your meta.
if you happen to have polluted delta's, those are better than arid mesa
I don't know how that's supposed to make any sense. Fetching a basic island cannot be that important.
Depends on who you face. If you face any deck with bloodmoon or burn, fetching basic island could be very important.
I think he was joking about it
No, I wasn't. Assuming I don't have Scalding Tarn, I would rather play Arid Mesa than Polluted Delta if I already have a set of Flooded Strand.
If you're facing a Blood Moon, you're still relying on sideboard cards to win regardless of the situation or at least reaching turn 2 uninterrupted. I can't think of a single Blood Moon where that's not true.
Random grixis players will bring in blood moon against us. It's terrible... but it can happen in the early rounds of a tornent or in the x-2 bracket.
Being able to fetch a basic island is critical. It won't come up as often, but not being able to fetch basic islands are going to cost you at least one game if you play in a 15 round tournament (theoretically).
I have a question. I'm currently saving up for Tarn, but I do have an SCG Open coming up in 2 weeks. Should I play Jeskai with Delta or just play UW? I've had experience with both.
The main issue of playing suboptimal fetches is you will be forced take more damage from fetching than you'd like, but it isn't a very big deal most of the time if you are fetching correctly in the first place. Whether Mesa or Delta is better depends entirely on your build; with the currently popular lists playing cryptic, logic knot and more than 4 cantrips, Delta is probably better.
Playing Jeskai with 4 flooded 4 delta, or a mix of delta/mesa is perfectly fine, just think some turns ahead when you are fetching and be aware you cannot get Sacred Foundry when needed. It can also be mediated a bit by just playing less fetches; going 4 flooded 2 delta and filling the last two slots with fastlands or checklands is also fine
In other news, playtesting with 8 cantrips for both a Nahiri build and a Geist build, I do really like Logic Knot now. The problem is however that I can no longer play Rest in Peace, and the alternatives are all mediocre; Surgical is poor especially without GQ/TE, and Relic doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. I think that I'd rather just switch off the gravehate entirely and accept the loss vs dredge
i would just play UW... not being able to fetch for the right basic is not gonna matter much at your fnm but over a long tourney it will matter enough that you are just handicapping yourself... your life total matters in about half of your matchups and you will probably lose at least a game that you may not have...
In other news, playtesting with 8 cantrips for both a Nahiri build and a Geist build, I do really like Logic Knot now. The problem is however that I can no longer play Rest in Peace, and the alternatives are all mediocre; Surgical is poor especially without GQ/TE, and Relic doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. I think that I'd rather just switch off the gravehate entirely and accept the loss vs dredge
i always favored tormod's crypt for grave hate and probably what you want here...
In other news, playtesting with 8 cantrips for both a Nahiri build and a Geist build, I do really like Logic Knot now. The problem is however that I can no longer play Rest in Peace, and the alternatives are all mediocre; Surgical is poor especially without GQ/TE, and Relic doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. I think that I'd rather just switch off the gravehate entirely and accept the loss vs dredge
WHats your deck build? I was trying the same with 22 lands but running into trouble.
I generally disagree. Either choice cuts the player off of three lands. Polluted Delta stops you from getting 1 plains, 1 mountain, 1 sacred foundry that is common in most lists, Arid Mesa stops you from getting 3 islands from the Harlan list. As a result, Polluted Delta allows you to fetch an island unconditionally, which I think is often crucial against many aggressive decks, and only cuts individuals off from Sacred Foundry. Arid Mesa allows you to have a better shock-based early game if you need a Foundry, but makes you take more damage in the later turns to get an untapped blue source to cast Cryptic Commands. I personally feel that the easier access to blue mana if needed at a lower life cost more beneficial- though, naturally, do what you feel is most effective for your meta.
Against aggressive decks, you should be relying on your white and red spells.
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i don't think there's any harm in using one.. but two is going to get you in trouble...
WAYNE649
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
Spells
4 Serum Visions
3 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
1 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
3 Logic Knot
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
1 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Steam Vents
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Runed Halo
1 Stony Silence
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear // Tear
I want to test the following more extensively: 22 lands and 8 cantrips. 23 lands and 7 cantrips. And finally 24 lands and 6 cantrips.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Interesting... thanks for the deck list. Maybe I'm not so crazy for trying both xD.
I do think that guy was super greedy for playing x3 collonades and only 22 lands though 0_o
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Yep, you're correct on Chandra's ult.
Arid mesa is a fine budget choice and can help with RR and WW sideboard cards - his list has Anger of the Gods, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Runed Halo and Supreme Verdict. But you're right here too, with only 22 lands there shouldn't be any compromises on the mana base, so arid mesa and 2 colourless sources are probably risky for his list.
I also forgot one of my old favourite closers for Geist Shells - Elspeth, Knight-Errant
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I don't know how that's supposed to make any sense. Fetching a basic island cannot be that important.
3x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
3x Sulfur Falls
spells
3x Cryptic Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Logic Knot
4x Opt
4x Path to Exile
2x Spell Snare
3x Serum Visions
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spell Queller
3x Geist of Saint Taft
2x Pia And Kiran Nalaar
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Negate
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Wear / Tear
1x Vendillian CLique
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Geist of Saint Traft
Lands (17)
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
3 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
4 Spell Pierce
4 Serum Visions
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Blessed Alliance
2 Counterflux
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Lands (24)
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Rest in Peace
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Wear
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Supreme Verdict
Depends on who you face. If you face any deck with bloodmoon or burn, fetching basic island could be very important.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I do not get sarcasm... my apologies
Next week I plan on taking my jeskai list with 23 lands and 7 cantrips to a modern 1k. I'll post another tournament report.
So far in my play testing I've come to three conclusions:
1). I feel like we want at a minimum 3 colonnades. Very important since we are creature light.
2). Running 22 lands is super greedy, especially with 3 collonades even if you are running 8 cantrips. I think you can get away eith it, but it's far to greedy for my own personal taste.
3). Running more than 4 cantrips can be awkward at times, especially when your opener hand is two lands and three cantrips. But I feel like the benefits outweigh the cost. Especially against other grindy matchups. Jund, abzan, and the mirror feel incredibly smoother.
In my old lists, I've always run lighthouse to help these grindy matchups. With more than 4 cantrips, It's not needed.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
No, I wasn't. Assuming I don't have Scalding Tarn, I would rather play Arid Mesa than Polluted Delta if I already have a set of Flooded Strand.
If you're facing a Blood Moon, you're still relying on sideboard cards to win regardless of the situation or at least reaching turn 2 uninterrupted. I can't think of a single Blood Moon where that's not true.
Random grixis players will bring in blood moon against us. It's terrible... but it can happen in the early rounds of a tornent or in the x-2 bracket.
Being able to fetch a basic island is critical. It won't come up as often, but not being able to fetch basic islands are going to cost you at least one game if you play in a 15 round tournament (theoretically).
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Playing Jeskai with 4 flooded 4 delta, or a mix of delta/mesa is perfectly fine, just think some turns ahead when you are fetching and be aware you cannot get Sacred Foundry when needed. It can also be mediated a bit by just playing less fetches; going 4 flooded 2 delta and filling the last two slots with fastlands or checklands is also fine
i always favored tormod's crypt for grave hate and probably what you want here...
WHats your deck build? I was trying the same with 22 lands but running into trouble.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Against aggressive decks, you should be relying on your white and red spells.