As I said when I last posted this list, Quellers greatly overperform. I put two geists back in the side again, and split the spreading seas 2 main 2 side as they were often mediocre game 1 but I do still want to run all 4; 2 main is still randomly good versus manlands, township et al. without a playset to clog up your hand you can hold onto them to actually use them on relevant targets
Why Cast Out over Detention Sphere, does the flash / cycle matter that much?
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
The cycle is incredibly useful yes, and the flash speed adds a lot of flexibility. I think the potential 2 for 1 upside of Dsphere does not come up in jeskai a lot since we have so much spot removal already
Also super secret hidden upside; Cast Out can exile opposing Detention Spheres which has won me some games vs UW control
Why would you ever want to cast that chain of Shadow > Snap > Shadow?
Never. It's such a bad play in almost every scenario. Perhaps if you have spare mana and you require a Snap to chump block it could be an option but it's still a trash option. Shadow of Doubt shouldn't be played at the moment. Its time was during the Pod-Scapeshift meta, and that was 3 years ago.
I'm running a build with Think Twice and Remand and I'm thinking of swapping to Vendillion Clique and Logic Knot/Negate instead.
The tap go is working really well but I'd like the extra pressure and knowledge of hand + disruption against combo decks, and I think it's more valuable than drawing 2 cards in a lot of matchups.
I think that my only problem with Shadow of Doubt is that it gets rid of the tempo that Jeskai decks go for now. Instead of efficient one mana removal in the form of path of exile, you are wasting 3 mana in order to prevent them from getting a land in addition. Almost all decks in the format are light on basic lands as is, so after your second path they usually don't have a target anyhow. And with fetches you are in essence wasting your second turn in order to set them back a land.
The same can be said about a lot of the other uses, in which just countering the spell is far more efficient. The only beneficial circumstance would be against Scapeshift as you mentioned because you could potentially have them sacrifice all of their lands. But if you aren't seeing a lot of that in your area then it would be a waste in my opinion.
Yeah, I agree. Shadow of Doubt is always right on the cusp of being playable but just isn't. There's going to have to be more tutor effects printed before it's good.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
Is Jeskai Harbinger all but dead? It occurred to me that it is not so different from JTMS. Of course, JTMS is the most powerful Planeswalker ever, but they are really similar: they draw cards, protect themselves and hava game-winning ultimates. Nahiri may be weaker, but is generally quicker in achieving it. Or is Jace's +0 Brainstorm ability the actual deal-sealer?
My intention is not to begin a banlist discussion (I don't intend it to sound that way). This talk is merely because Nahiri also costs 4 and is played at sorcery speed. With either Planewalker you have to play at sorcery speed at least 1 turn. And also they share some similarities as stated above. And today's meta is vastly different from a year ago, when Harbinger was all the rage. So if one is theoretically playable, can the other be? Maybe it can be revisited, probably with an updated build better suited to these times? Lightning Bolt / Lightning Helix are quite relevant, seeing Affinity, Burn, Counters Company are on the top. How would it fare against UW Control?
Is Jeskai Harbinger all but dead? It occurred to me that it is not so different from JTMS. Of course, JTMS is the most powerful Planeswalker ever, but they are really similar: they draw cards, protect themselves and hava game-winning ultimates. Nahiri may be weaker, but is generally quicker in achieving it. Or is Jace's +0 Brainstorm ability the actual deal-sealer?
My intention is not to begin a banlist discussion (I don't intend it to sound that way). This talk is merely because Nahiri also costs 4 and is played at sorcery speed. With either Planewalker you have to play at sorcery speed at least 1 turn. And also they share some similarities as stated above. And today's meta is vastly different from a year ago, when Harbinger was all the rage. So if one is theoretically playable, can the other be? Maybe it can be revisited, probably with an updated build better suited to these times? Lightning Bolt / Lightning Helix are quite relevant, seeing Affinity, Burn, Counters Company are on the top. How would it fare against UW Control?
Playable? Certainly. Even i still play it on occasion when I feel the metagame is right. These days, however, the format is wide open. You can pick up pretty much any playable deck so long as you have a game plan for what you expect to face. Everyone still has to deal with the match-up lottery though so you could just end up unlucky in that regard.
As far as UW control, I think it really depends on the pilot skill involved. All things being equal, I prefer to be on the Jeskai side in that match with either Quelled midrange or Nahiri.
True about the openess of the format. Which can be a good thing, if one is skilled enough in their own deck.
There hasn't been results with Nahiri, only with Queller Jeskai, which has me wondering whether it is because of Nahiri being too outdated or people simply trying newer builds.
True about the openess of the format. Which can be a good thing, if one is skilled enough in their own deck.
There hasn't been results with Nahiri, only with Queller Jeskai, which has me wondering whether it is because of Nahiri being too outdated or people simply trying newer builds.
The format got ridiculously fast when Infect was the top deck prior to the Gitaxian Probe banning. That combined with the demise of Lightning Bolt on the following Eldrazi winter scared many off from all forms of Jeskai (and rightly so imo). Now that the format is back to something healthy, I honestly see no reason Nahiri can't be successful. While many pros play the best deck or the deck that beats it, some like Todd Stevens and Tom Ross to an extent play what they like and tune it. So the best thing you can do is that: build your 75 and test it against known decks.
I think that my only problem with Shadow of Doubt is that it gets rid of the tempo that Jeskai decks go for now. Instead of efficient one mana removal in the form of path of exile, you are wasting 3 mana in order to prevent them from getting a land in addition. Almost all decks in the format are light on basic lands as is, so after your second path they usually don't have a target anyhow. And with fetches you are in essence wasting your second turn in order to set them back a land.
The same can be said about a lot of the other uses, in which just countering the spell is far more efficient. The only beneficial circumstance would be against Scapeshift as you mentioned because you could potentially have them sacrifice all of their lands. But if you aren't seeing a lot of that in your area then it would be a waste in my opinion.
Yeah, I agree. Shadow of Doubt is always right on the cusp of being playable but just isn't. There's going to have to be more tutor effects printed before it's good.
The card does WORK against scapeshift - I got someone to rage quit after enduring a game 2 shadow into mana leak into shadow into snapy shadow and the next game was shadow, leak, shadow with Crumble to Dust and Counterflux in hand. I'll take a video of the replay but goddamn it was hilarious.
Important question for those who run Spell Queller, if you target grapeshot does it stop the storm triggers? I can't find the ruling anywhere and I'm wondering if it would be effective against Storm since I'm playing in a PPTQ this coming weekend.
Also, what does everyone run against that matchup? Do you just side in normal graveyard hate and dispels/other counter magic?
Finally, for Scapeshift it stops them from using the spell effectively is what I meant earlier.. I know that they chose how many lands to sacrifice but obviously they won't sacrifice any that turn so it in essence stops them from combo killing you that turn
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Important question for those who run Spell Queller, if you target grapeshot does it stop the storm triggers? I can't find the ruling anywhere and I'm wondering if it would be effective against Storm since I'm playing in a PPTQ this coming weekend.
Also, what does everyone run against that matchup? Do you just side in normal graveyard hate and dispels/other counter magic?
Finally, for Scapeshift it stops them from using the spell effectively is what I meant earlier.. I know that they chose how many lands to sacrifice but obviously they won't sacrifice any that turn so it in essence stops them from combo killing you that turn
Storm is 'on cast' not 'upon resolution' so whether the Storm spell is countered, exiled or redirected after being put on the stack, the copies are already on the stack as independent spells.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
Important question for those who run Spell Queller, if you target grapeshot does it stop the storm triggers? I can't find the ruling anywhere and I'm wondering if it would be effective against Storm since I'm playing in a PPTQ this coming weekend.
Also, what does everyone run against that matchup? Do you just side in normal graveyard hate and dispels/other counter magic?
Finally, for Scapeshift it stops them from using the spell effectively is what I meant earlier.. I know that they chose how many lands to sacrifice but obviously they won't sacrifice any that turn so it in essence stops them from combo killing you that turn
You can disallow and counter the storm trigger. Or summary dismissal, or counterflux overload for all the spells.
if you want to get frisky and run trickbind for the storm trigger that also can't be remanded. However they can just remand and recast grapeshot as needed.
It's really an all of the above scenario for me... I board in both RIP and Counterflux as well as Dispel for the match-up. Geist of Saint Traft also does serious work if you can resolve him after removing one of their enablers and sticking a RIP. So I guess my ideal sequence against storm would be something like
1) bolt electromancer
2) resolve RIP
3 resolve Geist of Saint Traft
4) keep mana open for counterflux / other counterspells
5) win
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
Why Cast Out over Detention Sphere, does the flash / cycle matter that much?
Also super secret hidden upside; Cast Out can exile opposing Detention Spheres which has won me some games vs UW control
Never. It's such a bad play in almost every scenario. Perhaps if you have spare mana and you require a Snap to chump block it could be an option but it's still a trash option. Shadow of Doubt shouldn't be played at the moment. Its time was during the Pod-Scapeshift meta, and that was 3 years ago.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
The tap go is working really well but I'd like the extra pressure and knowledge of hand + disruption against combo decks, and I think it's more valuable than drawing 2 cards in a lot of matchups.
Yeah, I agree. Shadow of Doubt is always right on the cusp of being playable but just isn't. There's going to have to be more tutor effects printed before it's good.
My intention is not to begin a banlist discussion (I don't intend it to sound that way). This talk is merely because Nahiri also costs 4 and is played at sorcery speed. With either Planewalker you have to play at sorcery speed at least 1 turn. And also they share some similarities as stated above. And today's meta is vastly different from a year ago, when Harbinger was all the rage. So if one is theoretically playable, can the other be? Maybe it can be revisited, probably with an updated build better suited to these times? Lightning Bolt / Lightning Helix are quite relevant, seeing Affinity, Burn, Counters Company are on the top. How would it fare against UW Control?
Playable? Certainly. Even i still play it on occasion when I feel the metagame is right. These days, however, the format is wide open. You can pick up pretty much any playable deck so long as you have a game plan for what you expect to face. Everyone still has to deal with the match-up lottery though so you could just end up unlucky in that regard.
As far as UW control, I think it really depends on the pilot skill involved. All things being equal, I prefer to be on the Jeskai side in that match with either Quelled midrange or Nahiri.
There hasn't been results with Nahiri, only with Queller Jeskai, which has me wondering whether it is because of Nahiri being too outdated or people simply trying newer builds.
The format got ridiculously fast when Infect was the top deck prior to the Gitaxian Probe banning. That combined with the demise of Lightning Bolt on the following Eldrazi winter scared many off from all forms of Jeskai (and rightly so imo). Now that the format is back to something healthy, I honestly see no reason Nahiri can't be successful. While many pros play the best deck or the deck that beats it, some like Todd Stevens and Tom Ross to an extent play what they like and tune it. So the best thing you can do is that: build your 75 and test it against known decks.
The card does WORK against scapeshift - I got someone to rage quit after enduring a game 2 shadow into mana leak into shadow into snapy shadow and the next game was shadow, leak, shadow with Crumble to Dust and Counterflux in hand. I'll take a video of the replay but goddamn it was hilarious.
Top 4ed a pptq two weeks ago.
It's prettt much the final build.
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Cryptic Command
1x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
3x Remand
2x Restoration Angel
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spell Queller
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Dispel
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Wear / Tear
1x Wrath of God
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Also, what does everyone run against that matchup? Do you just side in normal graveyard hate and dispels/other counter magic?
Finally, for Scapeshift it stops them from using the spell effectively is what I meant earlier.. I know that they chose how many lands to sacrifice but obviously they won't sacrifice any that turn so it in essence stops them from combo killing you that turn
It will not stop the copies.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
You can disallow and counter the storm trigger. Or summary dismissal, or counterflux overload for all the spells.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
1) bolt electromancer
2) resolve RIP
3 resolve Geist of Saint Traft
4) keep mana open for counterflux / other counterspells
5) win
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA