Saheeli runs Seas, but I don't think any other version does.
On another note, I took a break from Jeskai, as I had a tourney coming up, and I was paying exclusively UW in preparation. I've been ruminating on my list for the past couple of days, and this is what I've come up with. It's based off of Guillaume Wafo-Tapa's list that has been 5-0ing here and there lately, and it is almost his list exactly (I changed like 4 cards).
Advice on improving would be appreciated. I'm well aware that I excluded Helix. Wafo has been playing with 0 in the 75 and it's been working for him, so I'm gonna keep with it until I feel like I really need Helix.
Playing Draw-Go, I would suggest
- having 1 Gearhulk and move Clique to the side. Gearhulk provides a body and brings back some important 4 CMC cards!
- 6 spot removal is fine, I prefer 7 (3 Bolt and 4 Path).
- I'd cut down 1 Elextrolyze and 1 TT for 2 Helix : this card is really good and helps us having more reach, gives removal and fixes life loss. Essential in my book.
Hello guys, this is my Jeskai Nahiri List, what are your suggestions for improvement?
I wanted to try 3 Nahiri and 1 Jace, AoT (since his ult can cast Emrakul too), but after reading the recent discussion, I'm not really sure now
Thanks!
Playing Draw-Go, I would suggest
- having 1 Gearhulk and move Clique to the side. Gearhulk provides a body and brings back some important 4 CMC cards!
- 6 spot removal is fine, I prefer 7 (3 Bolt and 4 Path).
- I'd cut down 1 Elextrolyze and 1 TT for 2 Helix : this card is really good and helps us having more reach, gives removal and fixes life loss. Essential in my book.
Enjoy!
I don't like Gearhulk because it died to Kommand, something that is very relevant in the current metagame. I know that this deck needs Lightning Helix, but I'm not sure whether I like cutting a TT, its one of the essential parts of the engine. Electrolyze as well is one of the things that makes Jeskai worth playing IMO. As I said, I'm basing most of this off of Wafos build.
Playing Draw-Go, I would suggest
- having 1 Gearhulk and move Clique to the side. Gearhulk provides a body and brings back some important 4 CMC cards!
- 6 spot removal is fine, I prefer 7 (3 Bolt and 4 Path).
- I'd cut down 1 Elextrolyze and 1 TT for 2 Helix : this card is really good and helps us having more reach, gives removal and fixes life loss. Essential in my book.
Enjoy!
I don't like Gearhulk because it died to Kommand, something that is very relevant in the current metagame. I know that this deck needs Lightning Helix, but I'm not sure whether I like cutting a TT, its one of the essential parts of the engine. Electrolyze as well is one of the things that makes Jeskai worth playing IMO. As I said, I'm basing most of this off of Wafos build.
V.Clique also dies to K-Command, but I do think Clique is the better card, I mean she is arguably the best blue creature ever printed. You could cut 1 Electrolyze to add 1 Helix.
I went 2-2 at a local modern FMN. Beat Jund scapeshift and GW vizier druid combo, lost to GR tron and naya company.
Round 1: Naya CoCo beat me 2-0. Game 1 I kept a land-heavy hand with a serum visions and a Nahiri. Maybe a Snapcaster, I forget. Loxodon smiter gave me headaches and eventually killed me. Game 2 he brought in choke and blood moon. Between the threats and the enchantments, I couldn't do a whole lot. I made some sequencing misplays, which may have cost me that game. How many non-island blue sources do we want in the deck to fight choke?
Round 2: GR Tron chewed me up and spit me out. Game 1 I kept a hand of lands and spells, not knowing what I was up against and suprisingly got to the late game with the Remand and Cryptic in my opener. He got me in the end. He suprised me with through the breach. It didn't matter; any payoff at that point would have done it. Game 2 I brought in 2 Geist, 1 negate, 1 ceremonious rejection. I should have thought to board in the wear // tear. I never saw a geist and he killed my ambush viper snapcaster. I got stuck on two lands for a turn or two, which didn't help. Pyroclasm might invalidate the Geist plan. I'm thinking about putting a Ghost Quarter in the side to supplement the one in the main.
Round 3: Jund scapeshift went off for 18 damage when I was at 16. I helixed him. So he sacrificed sakura-tribe elder to finish me. Response: Blessed alliance. Fell to 2, then untapped and cast Nahiri. He failed to draw anything to deal with it or deal me the last two damage, so I eaked out the kill. Game 2 I brought in the geist and played it on turn 3. Opponent cast lost legacy to get rid of Nahiri, but found no way to deal with Geist.
Round 4: Green-White Vizier/Druid combo seems like a great matchup for us. The deck is basically all removal and countermagic. I brought in one copy of dispel to deal with the chords and CoCos. I didn't want the second for fear of making the counterspells not work against creatures--the bulk of the deck. Game 1 I managed to stick a Nahiri and protect it for a while. Poor girl took lots of hits, but I eventually pulled her up to 8 and we killed him with Emrakul. Remand on chord of calling for a lot is quite satisfying; it's a real tempo swing, since they have to tap their creatures, of which they ought to have relatively few, considering we've been going to town with bolt, helix, and path. Game 2 I was beat down by sheer value. Kitchen Finks+Gavony Township helped him grind through two supreme verdicts. Two! Maybe I should have saved the second wrath a turn or two to have extra removal to add to the verdict and kill one permanently. Game 3 was a grind. I killed everything that moved as best I could but eventually I ran out of kill spells. So he stuck the combo and cast CoCo. I dispelled it. He had nothing else to use the mana on except a birds of paradise. So I threw my needle spires at him for a turn or two in which he whiffed. Then I drew Anger and nuked his board. Great card for the matchup. Then I beat him down with Spires and Snapcaster.
I found myself siding out electrolyze a lot. Perhaps that just needs to go entirely. I love the card, but I just don't think that it's worth it right now.
Playing Draw-Go, I would suggest
- having 1 Gearhulk and move Clique to the side. Gearhulk provides a body and brings back some important 4 CMC cards!
- 6 spot removal is fine, I prefer 7 (3 Bolt and 4 Path).
- I'd cut down 1 Elextrolyze and 1 TT for 2 Helix : this card is really good and helps us having more reach, gives removal and fixes life loss. Essential in my book.
Enjoy!
I don't like Gearhulk because it died to Kommand, something that is very relevant in the current metagame. I know that this deck needs Lightning Helix, but I'm not sure whether I like cutting a TT, its one of the essential parts of the engine. Electrolyze as well is one of the things that makes Jeskai worth playing IMO. As I said, I'm basing most of this off of Wafos build.
V.Clique also dies to K-Command, but I do think Clique is the better card, I mean she is arguably the best blue creature ever printed. You could cut 1 Electrolyze to add 1 Helix.
I agree that Clique is the better card and it's one of my all-time favorite creatures though not even close to best blue creature. Snapcaster Mage, Delver of Secrets, and True-Name Nemesis are all certainly better and a case could be made for Jace, Vryn's Prodigy which is a vintage staple as a 3-4 of in some decks. But yeah, it's a good creature.
That's why I said arguably But yeah, you've summed up pretty much all the best blue creatures in magic and I do rank Clique up there with them.
As for the Choke comment above. I personally aim to play the minimum amount of non-island U sources that allow me to cast my 75 with a Choke in play. For me, that's UUU - Cryptic Command and Gather Specimens, so that requires a minimum of 3 non-island U sources which I make by playing 3 manlands like Celestial Colonnade. The Esper Draw-Go Primer states that for good Choke protection, you should play 4-6 non-island U sources which is a good number to aim for.
I can't imagine playing draw-go without Think Twice. Maybe sounds silly, but playing Think Twice on my opponent's EoT is one of my favorite things to do. Here are some Jeskai draw-go lists with Think Twice:
I've always liked Think Twice in Draw-Go, but I'm not so attached that I'd never play without it haha. In fact, I've tested lists without it many times. =D It does peev me when people say things like "Think Twice is unplayable." though.
In the same vain, I'm gonna up Nahiri to a 4-of for the time being.
Played yesterday only two games and won them all, twice against control (Jeskai and UW). New decklist felt smooth and here are some comments :
1) Torrential Gearhulk as great in combination with 4CMC cards. It provided a win condition as well as giving flashback to Supreme Verdict for clearing a board full of pesky creatures. I didn't miss the 4th Snapcaster Mage.
2) 3 Lightning Bolt felt very good, better than 4. 2 Would respect the ''6 spot removal'' rule floating at the moment in most decklists, but I like having 3 to remove and burn the opponent at the same time. I was able to finish game 1 against Jeskai because I had Snapcaster Mage and Lightning Bolt.
3) 1 Secure the Wastes still feels okay. Might be better in Esper because the game goes on for a longer period of time with such a deck, but it worked well yesterday against UW again.
4) Manabase is well tuned. Nothing feels akward and land sequencing is coming along
5) Mana Leak was good early game, felt useless in late game ; the other way around for Logic Knot.
6) Think Twice was good at slowly gaining card advantage over my opponent which was not playing it! I had 4 card draws of it over 3-4 turns, which nets me 2 additionnal cards. It was good at doing its thing : playing the Ambush Viper mode and suggesting having an answer, but just keeping mana open and then playing the cantrip. Was pleased with it
1) Torrential Gearhulk as great in combination with 4CMC cards. It provided a win condition as well as giving flashback to Supreme Verdict for clearing a board full of pesky creatures. I didn't miss the 4th Snapcaster Mage.
sounds like you cheated, read gearhulk again
now snapcaster on the other hand could have actually legally flashbacked verdict, for the same cost, so I guess you did miss that 4th snapcaster after all
1) Torrential Gearhulk as great in combination with 4CMC cards. It provided a win condition as well as giving flashback to Supreme Verdict for clearing a board full of pesky creatures. I didn't miss the 4th Snapcaster Mage.
sounds like you cheated, read gearhulk again
now snapcaster on the other hand could have actually legally flashbacked verdict, for the same cost, so I guess you did miss that 4th snapcaster after all
Yeah, I cringed when I saw that. Gearhulk can NOT flashback sorceries. I know you like to say you don't miss the 4th Snapcaster but you certainly do and have proven it here = p
Good to hear you coming along with the deck Tom. The only thing I'm unsure of, and same with your 4c deck, is lack of Scalding Tarn. I'm under the impression that they are nearly essential for an American deck wanting to turn 1 Bolt whilst boosting Island fetches for cards like Cyptic Command. Unless I'm just not with the times as I used to be these days...
Good to hear you coming along with the deck Tom. The only thing I'm unsure of, and same with your 4c deck, is lack of Scalding Tarn. I'm under the impression that they are nearly essential for an American deck wanting to turn 1 Bolt whilst boosting Island fetches for cards like Cyptic Command. Unless I'm just not with the times as I used to be these days...
I run 3 Tarn 1 Mesa to FNM, I just don't carry them around when play testing
If Gearhulk could flashback sorceries it would be miles better, especially since you'd be able to hit Ancestral Vision. Being instants only restricts it a lot and in my opinion, I'd rather have Goblin Dark-Dwellers or Sphinx's Rev depending on what effect I'm looking for (body vs instant speed)
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On another note, I took a break from Jeskai, as I had a tourney coming up, and I was paying exclusively UW in preparation. I've been ruminating on my list for the past couple of days, and this is what I've come up with. It's based off of Guillaume Wafo-Tapa's list that has been 5-0ing here and there lately, and it is almost his list exactly (I changed like 4 cards).
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elsepth, Sun's Champion
4x Cryptic Command
3x Electrolyze
2x Lightning Bolt
3x Logic Knot
1x Mana Leak
1x Negate
4x Path to Exile
1x Sphinx's Revelation
3x Think Twice
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Celestial Purge
2x Dispel
1x Detention Sphere
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Negate
2x Runed Halo
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Vendilion Clique
Advice on improving would be appreciated. I'm well aware that I excluded Helix. Wafo has been playing with 0 in the 75 and it's been working for him, so I'm gonna keep with it until I feel like I really need Helix.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
- having 1 Gearhulk and move Clique to the side. Gearhulk provides a body and brings back some important 4 CMC cards!
- 6 spot removal is fine, I prefer 7 (3 Bolt and 4 Path).
- I'd cut down 1 Elextrolyze and 1 TT for 2 Helix : this card is really good and helps us having more reach, gives removal and fixes life loss. Essential in my book.
Enjoy!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I wanted to try 3 Nahiri and 1 Jace, AoT (since his ult can cast Emrakul too), but after reading the recent discussion, I'm not really sure now
Thanks!
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
4 Arid Mesa
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
1 Desolate Lighthouse
Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Remand
1 Logic Knot
2 Cryptic Command
1 Disallow
2 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Enchantments
1 Detention Sphere
Planeswalkers
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Sorceries
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Serum Visions
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Detention Sphere
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Rest in Peace
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Negate
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Stony Silence
1 Ajani Vengeant
I don't like Gearhulk because it died to Kommand, something that is very relevant in the current metagame. I know that this deck needs Lightning Helix, but I'm not sure whether I like cutting a TT, its one of the essential parts of the engine. Electrolyze as well is one of the things that makes Jeskai worth playing IMO. As I said, I'm basing most of this off of Wafos build.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
V.Clique also dies to K-Command, but I do think Clique is the better card, I mean she is arguably the best blue creature ever printed. You could cut 1 Electrolyze to add 1 Helix.
Round 1: Naya CoCo beat me 2-0. Game 1 I kept a land-heavy hand with a serum visions and a Nahiri. Maybe a Snapcaster, I forget. Loxodon smiter gave me headaches and eventually killed me. Game 2 he brought in choke and blood moon. Between the threats and the enchantments, I couldn't do a whole lot. I made some sequencing misplays, which may have cost me that game. How many non-island blue sources do we want in the deck to fight choke?
Round 2: GR Tron chewed me up and spit me out. Game 1 I kept a hand of lands and spells, not knowing what I was up against and suprisingly got to the late game with the Remand and Cryptic in my opener. He got me in the end. He suprised me with through the breach. It didn't matter; any payoff at that point would have done it. Game 2 I brought in 2 Geist, 1 negate, 1 ceremonious rejection. I should have thought to board in the wear // tear. I never saw a geist and he killed my ambush viper snapcaster. I got stuck on two lands for a turn or two, which didn't help. Pyroclasm might invalidate the Geist plan. I'm thinking about putting a Ghost Quarter in the side to supplement the one in the main.
Round 3: Jund scapeshift went off for 18 damage when I was at 16. I helixed him. So he sacrificed sakura-tribe elder to finish me. Response: Blessed alliance. Fell to 2, then untapped and cast Nahiri. He failed to draw anything to deal with it or deal me the last two damage, so I eaked out the kill. Game 2 I brought in the geist and played it on turn 3. Opponent cast lost legacy to get rid of Nahiri, but found no way to deal with Geist.
Round 4: Green-White Vizier/Druid combo seems like a great matchup for us. The deck is basically all removal and countermagic. I brought in one copy of dispel to deal with the chords and CoCos. I didn't want the second for fear of making the counterspells not work against creatures--the bulk of the deck. Game 1 I managed to stick a Nahiri and protect it for a while. Poor girl took lots of hits, but I eventually pulled her up to 8 and we killed him with Emrakul. Remand on chord of calling for a lot is quite satisfying; it's a real tempo swing, since they have to tap their creatures, of which they ought to have relatively few, considering we've been going to town with bolt, helix, and path. Game 2 I was beat down by sheer value. Kitchen Finks+Gavony Township helped him grind through two supreme verdicts. Two! Maybe I should have saved the second wrath a turn or two to have extra removal to add to the verdict and kill one permanently. Game 3 was a grind. I killed everything that moved as best I could but eventually I ran out of kill spells. So he stuck the combo and cast CoCo. I dispelled it. He had nothing else to use the mana on except a birds of paradise. So I threw my needle spires at him for a turn or two in which he whiffed. Then I drew Anger and nuked his board. Great card for the matchup. Then I beat him down with Spires and Snapcaster.
I found myself siding out electrolyze a lot. Perhaps that just needs to go entirely. I love the card, but I just don't think that it's worth it right now.
I agree that Clique is the better card and it's one of my all-time favorite creatures though not even close to best blue creature. Snapcaster Mage, Delver of Secrets, and True-Name Nemesis are all certainly better and a case could be made for Jace, Vryn's Prodigy which is a vintage staple as a 3-4 of in some decks. But yeah, it's a good creature.
As for the Choke comment above. I personally aim to play the minimum amount of non-island U sources that allow me to cast my 75 with a Choke in play. For me, that's UUU - Cryptic Command and Gather Specimens, so that requires a minimum of 3 non-island U sources which I make by playing 3 manlands like Celestial Colonnade. The Esper Draw-Go Primer states that for good Choke protection, you should play 4-6 non-island U sources which is a good number to aim for.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/689835#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/689854#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/689478#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/686187#paper (Wafo)
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/684428#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/681799#paper (Wafo again)
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/669109#paper
Here is a recent list that ran Glimmer instead:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/692844#paper
Always try to do things you can't imagine doing. This leads to growth.
I completely agree, great quote!
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
In the same vain, I'm gonna up Nahiri to a 4-of for the time being.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
1) Torrential Gearhulk as great in combination with 4CMC cards. It provided a win condition as well as giving flashback to Supreme Verdict for clearing a board full of pesky creatures. I didn't miss the 4th Snapcaster Mage.
2) 3 Lightning Bolt felt very good, better than 4. 2 Would respect the ''6 spot removal'' rule floating at the moment in most decklists, but I like having 3 to remove and burn the opponent at the same time. I was able to finish game 1 against Jeskai because I had Snapcaster Mage and Lightning Bolt.
3) 1 Secure the Wastes still feels okay. Might be better in Esper because the game goes on for a longer period of time with such a deck, but it worked well yesterday against UW again.
4) Manabase is well tuned. Nothing feels akward and land sequencing is coming along
5) Mana Leak was good early game, felt useless in late game ; the other way around for Logic Knot.
6) Think Twice was good at slowly gaining card advantage over my opponent which was not playing it! I had 4 card draws of it over 3-4 turns, which nets me 2 additionnal cards. It was good at doing its thing : playing the Ambush Viper mode and suggesting having an answer, but just keeping mana open and then playing the cantrip. Was pleased with it
Updated list for reference :
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Ajani Vengeant
Spells (30)
4 Cryptic Command
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Logic Knot
2 Electrolyze
2 Lightning Helix
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Negate
1 Mana Leak
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Flooded Strand
4 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
2 Molten Rain
2 Stony Silence
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Counterflux
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wear // Tear
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
sounds like you cheated, read gearhulk again
now snapcaster on the other hand could have actually legally flashbacked verdict, for the same cost, so I guess you did miss that 4th snapcaster after all
Yeah, I cringed when I saw that. Gearhulk can NOT flashback sorceries. I know you like to say you don't miss the 4th Snapcaster but you certainly do and have proven it here = p
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I run 3 Tarn 1 Mesa to FNM, I just don't carry them around when play testing
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R