Your list looks good. I think playing excess spot removal defeats the purpose of playing 2+ sweepers. I think you could cut 1 Helix or cut 1 sweeper. If you would add a counter, a single Spell Snare or Negate could be ok. Or you could add a V.Clique like in Mclaren's winning list or a T.Gearhulk like Mitas did.
Similar alternatives could be a sideboard Blessed Alliance instead of Helix for match ups like Bogles or Geists and is also another hard removal vs Eldrazi and Shadow. Mindbreak Trap is also an alternative to Counterflux in a Storm heavy meta.
I'm tempted to get back into Mclaren style Jeskai draw-go myself. Looks like it's the place to be for control at the moment.
Old way UWR Control is so good : I mean, I can understand why the flavor of the month like Nahiri took off, but in the end, counter-Burn is the essence of this deck. So I encourage you going the Mclaren way.
The new ''4-off'' Jeskai or ''Jeskai Straighforward'' inspired by Japanese players will be on the map for a certain period of time (like Nahiri), and then, it will comeback to draw-go I guess. Not that there's no inovation possible with this deck, but only minor tweaks here and there to me.
They also do not play Sphinx's Revelation and Think Twice. And they play all three burn spells as 4-ofs, which would be clunky in a draw-go shell. Personally, I do not consider the 4-of Jeskai deck an example of Jeskai Control. It feels more like a tempo burn/counter deck. Frankly, I wish they would have different threads for each of the three Jeskai variants: Nahiri, 4-of, and Draw-go. The discussion here gets too muddled with everyone doing something different.
Old way UWR Control is so good : I mean, I can understand why the flavor of the month like Nahiri took off, but in the end, counter-Burn is the essence of this deck. So I encourage you going the Mclaren way.
The new ''4-off'' Jeskai or ''Jeskai Straighforward'' inspired by Japanese players will be on the map for a certain period of time (like Nahiri), and then, it will comeback to draw-go I guess. Not that there's no inovation possible with this deck, but only minor tweaks here and there to me.
They also do not play Sphinx's Revelation and Think Twice. And they play all three burn spells as 4-ofs, which would be clunky in a draw-go shell. Personally, I do not consider the 4-of Jeskai deck an example of Jeskai Control. It feels more like a tempo burn/counter deck. Frankly, I wish they would have different threads for each of the three Jeskai variants: Nahiri, 4-of, and Draw-go. The discussion here gets too muddled with everyone doing something different.
You're falling into the same trap the Nahiri players did. Jeskai as an archetype is extremely flexible and needs to be built with your metagame in mind. Draw-Go doesn't work well in every metagame. Trying to force a particular version in an adverse field is a recipe for a bad day. There are times I've dusted off Nahiri Jeskai for local tournaments because no one expects it and the graveyard hate is minimal. As far as 4-of Jeskai being a tempo deck, I can see your point, but sometimes that's as good as control can get for a particular field. It's not as if any particular version of Jeskai is a mainstay of Modern.
You make a good point. I feel most comfortable, and most enjoy, the draw-go style and I plan to play it exclusively for a while to learn the ins and outs, but it is nice to have the flexibility to switch it up every now and then to keep my local meta on its toes.
PS: what would you say are the best and worst MU's for the draw-go style? I haven't played it long enough to say for sure. I know Mitas says Dredge is a terrible MU but what else is bad, and what would be a more favorable MU?
I took jeskai to GP Vegas this weekend. I dropped out of day 2 at 7-4 to go play in side events and go get lunch. What I ended up playing was a tamada style list with three geists in place of a helix electrolyze and a land.
Geist was absolute fire. I won so many games on his back. Spell queller was fantastic at keeping my geist safe and keeping my opponent off their game plan long enough for geist to close the door. I qullered three cavern of soulsed eldrazi in one game.
My losses were to affinity, bant eldrazi, GDS and 4c humans.
The affinity match was a bummer since I think the deck is overall pretty good against it. I faced affinity the round after that and 2-0'd in very convincing fashion.
The bant eldrazi match was also pretty sad. Game three I kept a great hand of two serum, geist, molten rain, electrolyze and bolt. I bolted his turn one noble, he missed his second land drop and proceeded to do nothing for six turns while I sat there on two lands with a hand full of three drops. I thought the serums would get me to my third land but no luck.
Grixis death's shadow was a blowout. Everything I tried to do he had a removal spell or stubborn denial for and I didn't draw much burn to burn him down when he dropped low for death's shadow.
4c humans was pretty close. Game one he stormed off with companies and such to flood me out with dudes. Game two I had the removal to keep him off guys long enough for geist to win me the game. Game three he kept a one lander with an avacyns pilgrim which I removed. He then topdecked flawlessly to curve out with mayor of avabruck into Thalia into anafenza the foremost into collected company hitting two lieutenants. I had a kozileks return in hand and I had counter magic the turn he caverned out Thalia. If he didn't rip cavern I had the game. If he didn't have Thalia I had the game. If he missed a single land drop I had the game. If he didn't have company into double lieutenant to get everything out of kozileks range I had the game. If I topdecked an untapped land I had the game. It was very unfortunate but that's magic.
Overall I think jeskai geist is really good right now. I saw several other people on the deck in game two. Only the one guy got into the top 32 but there were quite a few not far behind.
You make a good point. I feel most comfortable, and most enjoy, the draw-go style and I plan to play it exclusively for a while to learn the ins and outs, but it is nice to have the flexibility to switch it up every now and then to keep my local meta on its toes.
PS: what would you say are the best and worst MU's for the draw-go style? I haven't played it long enough to say for sure. I know Mitas says Dredge is a terrible MU but what else is bad, and what would be a more favorable MU?
Hyper aggressive decks and midrange decks are what Draw-Go preys on. Bad match ups include, UW control (depending on build), Dredge can be (sometimes their average draw can get you before you can get your feet under you) and combo decks, such as Ad Nauseam and other decks that generally try to beat you on a different axis. I'm torn as to how to call Death's Shadow. On one hand, it's trying to turn creatures sideways so that should make it a good match, but it's absurdly efficient and plays the right sort of spells that can hurt us in a way we can't recover from fast enough.
Dredge is horrible, so much that Mitas switched to UW when it was at is peak. Ad Nauseam is hard also (it's my go-to deck), as well as Affinity sometimes and some huge Tron decks.
Kiki-Resto combo making a ressurgence is a great news for Jeskai : if I weren't on draw-go, I would use that as a finisher. It spikes up here and there, but I hope to see it coming more often.
Kiki-Resto combo making a ressurgence is a great news for Jeskai
Those Wall of Omens are actually very good against dredge, being able to block and survive prized amalgam and bloodghast. And they lack the instant speed removal for kiki/resto. Resto-wall-kiki may be a good choice if dredge is abundant.
Exactly : it placed 9th at the latest Open and it's decent against DS (Jund or Grixis) to chump block : having a finisher also makes a way out against a complicated state board (typical in Affinity, DS, Coco, Humans, etc.). If I wasn't on draw-go, I'd be on Kiki-Resto for sure.
Hmm... Jeskai Draw-Go would be my go-to Jeskai deck because I have so much experience with the archetype and Draw-Go in general, but I'm currently on Esper. I don't see any reason to switch, and frankly don't see why anyone is playing Jeskai post-Push. Will someone please enlighten me/shoot me down?
Hmm... Jeskai Draw-Go would be my go-to Jeskai deck because I have so much experience with the archetype and Draw-Go in general, but I'm currently on Esper. I don't see any reason to switch, and frankly don't see why anyone is playing Jeskai post-Push. Will someone please enlighten me/shoot me down?
Nope, it's still the best. Especially together with snapcaster. "EOT BSB" gives control such a sudden change of momentum and a way to close out the game, UR is still the best control color combination. The only question is whether you'd rather have jeskai or grixis.
You came into the thread asking for opinions on why to play jeskai (in a way that is more likely to start a flamewar than a discussion) so I gave you mine. UW is very strong atm because it rolls over death shadow decks, but I dislike how it has several close to unwinnable MUs. I have always disliked esper.
As for the cards you mentioned, those cards are good in the decks that build around them. They're pillars of the format, but they're set on the ground of the format which is still Lightning Bolt
The deck that made 9th place at SCG Charlotte caught my eye, but I've been wondering a bit about the Kiki-Jiki combo. The mana base has only 4 sources that actually tap for R, including a non-searchable one, while it also needs to tap for XUU and 1UUU past turn 2 and 4. Did the pilot only intend to play Kiki-Jiki through Nahiri, the Harbinger, or was his mana base strong enough to play it from his hand?
Your list looks good. I think playing excess spot removal defeats the purpose of playing 2+ sweepers. I think you could cut 1 Helix or cut 1 sweeper. If you would add a counter, a single Spell Snare or Negate could be ok. Or you could add a V.Clique like in Mclaren's winning list or a T.Gearhulk like Mitas did.
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Similar alternatives could be a sideboard Blessed Alliance instead of Helix for match ups like Bogles or Geists and is also another hard removal vs Eldrazi and Shadow. Mindbreak Trap is also an alternative to Counterflux in a Storm heavy meta.
I'm tempted to get back into Mclaren style Jeskai draw-go myself. Looks like it's the place to be for control at the moment.
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
The new ''4-off'' Jeskai or ''Jeskai Straighforward'' inspired by Japanese players will be on the map for a certain period of time (like Nahiri), and then, it will comeback to draw-go I guess. Not that there's no inovation possible with this deck, but only minor tweaks here and there to me.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
You're falling into the same trap the Nahiri players did. Jeskai as an archetype is extremely flexible and needs to be built with your metagame in mind. Draw-Go doesn't work well in every metagame. Trying to force a particular version in an adverse field is a recipe for a bad day. There are times I've dusted off Nahiri Jeskai for local tournaments because no one expects it and the graveyard hate is minimal. As far as 4-of Jeskai being a tempo deck, I can see your point, but sometimes that's as good as control can get for a particular field. It's not as if any particular version of Jeskai is a mainstay of Modern.
PS: what would you say are the best and worst MU's for the draw-go style? I haven't played it long enough to say for sure. I know Mitas says Dredge is a terrible MU but what else is bad, and what would be a more favorable MU?
Geist was absolute fire. I won so many games on his back. Spell queller was fantastic at keeping my geist safe and keeping my opponent off their game plan long enough for geist to close the door. I qullered three cavern of soulsed eldrazi in one game.
My losses were to affinity, bant eldrazi, GDS and 4c humans.
The affinity match was a bummer since I think the deck is overall pretty good against it. I faced affinity the round after that and 2-0'd in very convincing fashion.
The bant eldrazi match was also pretty sad. Game three I kept a great hand of two serum, geist, molten rain, electrolyze and bolt. I bolted his turn one noble, he missed his second land drop and proceeded to do nothing for six turns while I sat there on two lands with a hand full of three drops. I thought the serums would get me to my third land but no luck.
Grixis death's shadow was a blowout. Everything I tried to do he had a removal spell or stubborn denial for and I didn't draw much burn to burn him down when he dropped low for death's shadow.
4c humans was pretty close. Game one he stormed off with companies and such to flood me out with dudes. Game two I had the removal to keep him off guys long enough for geist to win me the game. Game three he kept a one lander with an avacyns pilgrim which I removed. He then topdecked flawlessly to curve out with mayor of avabruck into Thalia into anafenza the foremost into collected company hitting two lieutenants. I had a kozileks return in hand and I had counter magic the turn he caverned out Thalia. If he didn't rip cavern I had the game. If he didn't have Thalia I had the game. If he missed a single land drop I had the game. If he didn't have company into double lieutenant to get everything out of kozileks range I had the game. If I topdecked an untapped land I had the game. It was very unfortunate but that's magic.
Overall I think jeskai geist is really good right now. I saw several other people on the deck in game two. Only the one guy got into the top 32 but there were quite a few not far behind.
Hyper aggressive decks and midrange decks are what Draw-Go preys on. Bad match ups include, UW control (depending on build), Dredge can be (sometimes their average draw can get you before you can get your feet under you) and combo decks, such as Ad Nauseam and other decks that generally try to beat you on a different axis. I'm torn as to how to call Death's Shadow. On one hand, it's trying to turn creatures sideways so that should make it a good match, but it's absurdly efficient and plays the right sort of spells that can hurt us in a way we can't recover from fast enough.
Kiki-Resto combo making a ressurgence is a great news for Jeskai : if I weren't on draw-go, I would use that as a finisher. It spikes up here and there, but I hope to see it coming more often.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Those Wall of Omens are actually very good against dredge, being able to block and survive prized amalgam and bloodghast. And they lack the instant speed removal for kiki/resto. Resto-wall-kiki may be a good choice if dredge is abundant.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Then play what you want to play.
As for the cards you mentioned, those cards are good in the decks that build around them. They're pillars of the format, but they're set on the ground of the format which is still Lightning Bolt
Play whatever you want, jeskai4lyfe
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W