is Titan Shift supposed to be an atrocious matchup for us? I played about 7-8 games vs it and maybe got a win or two
is there any way to make it better? I guess crumble to dust is a thing
Yeah it is supposed to be tough. If I know I am playing against TitanShift I will often YOLO Jam Nahiri in game 1 as soon as I can. Game 2 I bring in Negates and will counter everything that they try to do early on (Sakura Tribe Elder, Search for Tomorrow, Farseek, etc.)
I am running 2x Crumble in the side and may up it to 3. We have a ton of Shift players at my shop.
EDIT: Also I beat TitanShift one time by very carefully staying above 18 with Helixes and Snaps while ticking Nahiri up. He had to waste bolts and Valakut triggers on Nahiri to keep her at bay while I snap bolted him over and over.
I think I may put a crumble in my side as a one of, there's one guy who has it but he's got a few decks that he can witch between so I might not see it that often
Yeah it becomes a tempo game. Sometimes the best bet is to slam Nahiri and hope they stumble on their next draw. But Crumble on Valakut ends the game. At that point all they have are Titan beats and we have plenty of Paths for that.
is Titan Shift supposed to be an atrocious matchup for us? I played about 7-8 games vs it and maybe got a win or two
is there any way to make it better? I guess crumble to dust is a thing
Yeah it is supposed to be tough. If I know I am playing against TitanShift I will often YOLO Jam Nahiri in game 1 as soon as I can. Game 2 I bring in Negates and will counter everything that they try to do early on (Sakura Tribe Elder, Search for Tomorrow, Farseek, etc.)
I am running 2x Crumble in the side and may up it to 3. We have a ton of Shift players at my shop.
EDIT: Also I beat TitanShift one time by very carefully staying above 18 with Helixes and Snaps while ticking Nahiri up. He had to waste bolts and Valakut triggers on Nahiri to keep her at bay while I snap bolted him over and over.
I think I may put a crumble in my side as a one of, there's one guy who has it but he's got a few decks that he can witch between so I might not see it that often
Yeah it becomes a tempo game. Sometimes the best bet is to slam Nahiri and hope they stumble on their next draw. But Crumble on Valakut ends the game. At that point all they have are Titan beats and we have plenty of Paths for that.
the games that I managed to win I was able to just jam a nahiri and ride that. I'll have to update my sb as it needs work
I'm actually convinced that Fastlands are crazy. I've cut down to 3 shocks, 4 basics, 7 fetches and 5 fastlands (4 Spirebluff, 1 Seachrome), with the 3 Colonnades.
I may go back onto a Cryptic for the bigger matchups, but I'm staying on 23 lands.
For counterspells I'm on 2 Snare, 1 Remand, 1 Negate, 3 Leak, 1 CC.
Great right up friend thanks! I really like your take on the list. So I have a number of questions for you (but also for the rest)
1) Indeed you were pretty light on counters something I like quite a bit in this meta. Would you consider going closer to the Grixis list that got 2nd on the GP and run something like 2 Negates, 2 Snares 2 Cryptics? I find this as a solid spot to be in
2) If so, would you cut the Remand for a 4th AV?
3) Would you consider a Wrath of God somewhere in the 75 just to get that extra % of creatures that regenerate? (Elves, Thrun, some affinity lists with Jar etc)
4) What configuration would you make in order to go down to 23 lands?
Thanks again for the write up, congrats on the result!
Spirebluff Canal easily decreases the average land damage you take per game by three life points, that's a free lightning bolt for your opponent.
Having your fourth land come into play tapped is very rare if you plan ahead; it should only really happen when you topdeck Spirebluff Canal exactly on turn four. That is a 3 in 51 chance (third draw on the play keeping seven) which is a little under 6%, and that is excluding if you drew any number of Spirebluff Canals before that turn (-2% per drawn), do not have any other lands in hand by turn 4 (7.5% chance if you keep 7) and never cast Serum Visions. That last one becomes a little too complex for me to calculate but this should indicate how often a tapped turn 4 land comes up compared to the percentage of games where your life total dips below 3
Spirebluff Canal easily decreases the average land damage you take per game by three life points, that's a free lightning bolt for your opponent.
Having your fourth land come into play tapped is very rare if you plan ahead; it should only really happen when you topdeck Spirebluff Canal exactly on turn four. That is a 3 in 51 chance (third draw on the play keeping seven) which is a little under 6%, and that is excluding if you drew any number of Spirebluff Canals before that turn (-2% per drawn), do not have any other lands in hand by turn 4 (7.5% chance if you keep 7) and never cast Serum Visions. That last one becomes a little too complex for me to calculate but this should indicate how often a tapped turn 4 land comes up compared to the percentage of games where your life total dips below 3
If you only have the 4CMC Nahiri this will only happen less than 3% of your games. It will happen something like 5% of the time if you are keeping a bunch of one land Serum Vision hands (don't do it)!
Spirebluff Canal is indeed the nuts. I was on a playset the moment they came out and I would never go back. I think it honestly depends on how many 4 drops you run, but the amount of life you save will win you some percentage of games, especially against the more aggressive decks. Over the weekend, I was able to go Spirebluff into Ancestral T1, then T2 Spirebluff into Bolt a mana dork and keep up Spell Snare, all while taking 0 damage. They can be awkward if you have a fastland heavy hand and need white early, but I think they are honestly amazing and would never leave the house without 3, and leaning towards 4.
@Ym1r
1) I'll be honest that I'm not expert and I've only tested with a few configurations (2 Leak 2 Remand 2 Snare 1 Cryptic (24 lands), 2 Leak 3 Remand 2 Snare (23 lands), 2 Leak 1 Remand 2 Snare 1 Pierce 1 Cryptic (24 lands)) so I can't say for certain how I feel about changing the counterspells much. I know for a fact that I want another Cryptic, especially in a 24 land build. I think the meta is pretty aggressive for sure, but we usually make it to Turn 4 and it is such a versatile and powerful card that I always wanted to see more over the weekend. Over the next week or two I'll be testing a 2-2-2-2 and a 2-1-3-2 Snare-Remand-Leak-Cryptic build. I'm not sure Negate is where we want to be in such an open meta, but I do not underestimate its success.
2) I do not think we need to be running more than 3 Ancestral Vision, ever. The card is great in a lot of matchups, but when I tested 4, all too often I drew into more Ancestrals rather than action off the draw 3. Arguably, the fact that we dug 3 cards deeper is still great, but I think 4 is overkill and you will end up drawing a lot of air if you run a playset of Serum Visions alongside it. I think Remand is not as bad as I thought it was, but I'm still not extremely happy with it in the current meta. I think 1-2 are the right numbers, as opposed to 3 as I had a while back. Even though I would have liked to see Remand more often in some matchups, I'm still inclined to go with 2-1-3-2 Snare-Remand-Leak-Cryptic builds for now with 24 lands.
3) I deliberated with myself for a while on whether to have Supreme Verdict or Wrath of God in the sideboard over the weekend. I'm not sure either one is 100% correct, but I did notice that the uncounterable clause never came up in any matchup, while anti-regeneration would have been great against Golgari Grave-Troll (although at that point, your position is already pretty rough). With that said, I think its certainly a meta call. I am more worried about my Merfolk matchup than I am my Elves matchup for sure, and Thrun is a fringe sideboard card that I am not expecting to try to counter. Welding Jar can be annoying off Affinity, but from my experience, they never play more than 1-2 copies of them and our Affinity matchup is generally pretty solid, especially if we're siding in Stony Silence. If decks like Bant Spirits are also on the rise, that is more reason for me to go with Verdict. It can even come in against Grixis Delver variants, while Wrath of God can be a huge liability.
4) On a 23 land list, I would run a more tempo-oriented list with cheaper counterspells (no Cryptics). I would go the Gerry T. style with 1-2 copies of Anger and 1-2 copies of Timely Reinforcements in the mainboard, with 3 copies of Ancestral and 4 copies of Serum Visions to enhance consistency. Also, probably only 2 Colonnades. That's just my thoughts on 23 land builds, but its entirely up for discussion still. I would play less of a control game and more of a try to resolve Nahiri ASAP and protect her with cheaper counters, while having Ancestral + Anger/Timely to gain card advantage while recouping tempo. With that said, I feel like the 24+ land builds with Cryptic may yield better results in the current metagame.
Check out some Magic Gameplay and Commentary videos here, including Modern Grixis, Jeskai, and Esper videos as well as some Standard and Drafts too: My YouTube Channel!
When I saw Gearhulk spoilered I immediately wrote a paragraph on how we could play it even though it's very expensive but then I realized it can't flashback AV and went crtl+A delete
When I saw Gearhulk spoilered I immediately wrote a paragraph on how we could play it even though it's very expensive but then I realized it can't flashback AV and went crtl+A delete
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
When I saw Gearhulk spoilered I immediately wrote a paragraph on how we could play it even though it's very expensive but then I realized it can't flashback AV and went crtl+A delete
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
If you are into that effect just run Goblin Dark Dwelleers. It's a fine card if you have the space for it. It's very hard to block and it can brick a lot of creatures. It can also flashback AV and costs 1 mana less than gearhulk.
When I saw Gearhulk spoilered I immediately wrote a paragraph on how we could play it even though it's very expensive but then I realized it can't flashback AV and went crtl+A delete
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
If you are into that effect just run Goblin Dark Dwelleers. It's a fine card if you have the space for it. It's very hard to block and it can brick a lot of creatures. It can also flashback AV and costs 1 mana less than gearhulk.
Yeah I was looking at it but the reason I didn't like it is the lack of flash. I liked the idea of a Gearhulk coming down and killing a Reality Smasher/Thought Knot or a Goyf while flashing back something sweet. Unfortunately our sweetest instant is Lightning Helix :/
When I saw Gearhulk spoilered I immediately wrote a paragraph on how we could play it even though it's very expensive but then I realized it can't flashback AV and went crtl+A delete
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
If you are into that effect just run Goblin Dark Dwelleers. It's a fine card if you have the space for it. It's very hard to block and it can brick a lot of creatures. It can also flashback AV and costs 1 mana less than gearhulk.
Yeah I was looking at it but the reason I didn't like it is the lack of flash. I liked the idea of a Gearhulk coming down and killing a Reality Smasher/Thought Knot or a Goyf while flashing back something sweet. Unfortunately our sweetest instant is Lightning Helix :/
In modern the flash isn't all that relevant. I'd rather just slam Elspeth (most of the time at 6 mana). Card just crushes.
When I saw Gearhulk spoilered I immediately wrote a paragraph on how we could play it even though it's very expensive but then I realized it can't flashback AV and went crtl+A delete
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
If you are into that effect just run Goblin Dark Dwelleers. It's a fine card if you have the space for it. It's very hard to block and it can brick a lot of creatures. It can also flashback AV and costs 1 mana less than gearhulk.
Yeah I was looking at it but the reason I didn't like it is the lack of flash. I liked the idea of a Gearhulk coming down and killing a Reality Smasher/Thought Knot or a Goyf while flashing back something sweet. Unfortunately our sweetest instant is Lightning Helix :/
In modern the flash isn't all that relevant. I'd rather just slam Elspeth (most of the time at 6 mana). Card just crushes.
Yep I bring Elspeth in against Grixis and Jund and she does work.
My last Grixis opponent Dreadbored my Nahiri and looked all smug about it and I immediately played Elspeth and won two turns later lol.
I think Gearhulk requires you to play more Cryptics to have proper targets for it. And I Doubt that is where Nahiri wants to be (althought Im currently on 2 Cryptic in my Nahiri).
Ah, a fellow foil player. I'm at 67/75 foil in Jeskai = p
I disagree. AV is good with Cryptic/Verdict since those cards buy you time for your AV to resolve, after you've spent your early game interaction cards to survive.
You dont want too many large spells together with AV, that does not stop cryptic from being an excellent card. That being said I'd still recommend cutting one of the cryptics or the electrolyze for a third Lightning Helix. Also try cramming two (or at least one) Geist in the side, probably over the Spellskite
You dont want too many large spells together with AV, that does not stop cryptic from being an excellent card. That being said I'd still recommend cutting one of the cryptics or the electrolyze for a third Lightning Helix. Also try cramming two (or at least one) Geist in the side, probably over the Spellskite
I always find it funny when people fail to count Emrakul when they are counting up their 4CMC+ cards.
Yeah it becomes a tempo game. Sometimes the best bet is to slam Nahiri and hope they stumble on their next draw. But Crumble on Valakut ends the game. At that point all they have are Titan beats and we have plenty of Paths for that.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Staffthe games that I managed to win I was able to just jam a nahiri and ride that. I'll have to update my sb as it needs work
I may go back onto a Cryptic for the bigger matchups, but I'm staying on 23 lands.
For counterspells I'm on 2 Snare, 1 Remand, 1 Negate, 3 Leak, 1 CC.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Great right up friend thanks! I really like your take on the list. So I have a number of questions for you (but also for the rest)
1) Indeed you were pretty light on counters something I like quite a bit in this meta. Would you consider going closer to the Grixis list that got 2nd on the GP and run something like 2 Negates, 2 Snares 2 Cryptics? I find this as a solid spot to be in
2) If so, would you cut the Remand for a 4th AV?
3) Would you consider a Wrath of God somewhere in the 75 just to get that extra % of creatures that regenerate? (Elves, Thrun, some affinity lists with Jar etc)
4) What configuration would you make in order to go down to 23 lands?
Thanks again for the write up, congrats on the result!
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Having your fourth land come into play tapped is very rare if you plan ahead; it should only really happen when you topdeck Spirebluff Canal exactly on turn four. That is a 3 in 51 chance (third draw on the play keeping seven) which is a little under 6%, and that is excluding if you drew any number of Spirebluff Canals before that turn (-2% per drawn), do not have any other lands in hand by turn 4 (7.5% chance if you keep 7) and never cast Serum Visions. That last one becomes a little too complex for me to calculate but this should indicate how often a tapped turn 4 land comes up compared to the percentage of games where your life total dips below 3
If you only have the 4CMC Nahiri this will only happen less than 3% of your games. It will happen something like 5% of the time if you are keeping a bunch of one land Serum Vision hands (don't do it)!
@Ym1r
1) I'll be honest that I'm not expert and I've only tested with a few configurations (2 Leak 2 Remand 2 Snare 1 Cryptic (24 lands), 2 Leak 3 Remand 2 Snare (23 lands), 2 Leak 1 Remand 2 Snare 1 Pierce 1 Cryptic (24 lands)) so I can't say for certain how I feel about changing the counterspells much. I know for a fact that I want another Cryptic, especially in a 24 land build. I think the meta is pretty aggressive for sure, but we usually make it to Turn 4 and it is such a versatile and powerful card that I always wanted to see more over the weekend. Over the next week or two I'll be testing a 2-2-2-2 and a 2-1-3-2 Snare-Remand-Leak-Cryptic build. I'm not sure Negate is where we want to be in such an open meta, but I do not underestimate its success.
2) I do not think we need to be running more than 3 Ancestral Vision, ever. The card is great in a lot of matchups, but when I tested 4, all too often I drew into more Ancestrals rather than action off the draw 3. Arguably, the fact that we dug 3 cards deeper is still great, but I think 4 is overkill and you will end up drawing a lot of air if you run a playset of Serum Visions alongside it. I think Remand is not as bad as I thought it was, but I'm still not extremely happy with it in the current meta. I think 1-2 are the right numbers, as opposed to 3 as I had a while back. Even though I would have liked to see Remand more often in some matchups, I'm still inclined to go with 2-1-3-2 Snare-Remand-Leak-Cryptic builds for now with 24 lands.
3) I deliberated with myself for a while on whether to have Supreme Verdict or Wrath of God in the sideboard over the weekend. I'm not sure either one is 100% correct, but I did notice that the uncounterable clause never came up in any matchup, while anti-regeneration would have been great against Golgari Grave-Troll (although at that point, your position is already pretty rough). With that said, I think its certainly a meta call. I am more worried about my Merfolk matchup than I am my Elves matchup for sure, and Thrun is a fringe sideboard card that I am not expecting to try to counter. Welding Jar can be annoying off Affinity, but from my experience, they never play more than 1-2 copies of them and our Affinity matchup is generally pretty solid, especially if we're siding in Stony Silence. If decks like Bant Spirits are also on the rise, that is more reason for me to go with Verdict. It can even come in against Grixis Delver variants, while Wrath of God can be a huge liability.
4) On a 23 land list, I would run a more tempo-oriented list with cheaper counterspells (no Cryptics). I would go the Gerry T. style with 1-2 copies of Anger and 1-2 copies of Timely Reinforcements in the mainboard, with 3 copies of Ancestral and 4 copies of Serum Visions to enhance consistency. Also, probably only 2 Colonnades. That's just my thoughts on 23 land builds, but its entirely up for discussion still. I would play less of a control game and more of a try to resolve Nahiri ASAP and protect her with cheaper counters, while having Ancestral + Anger/Timely to gain card advantage while recouping tempo. With that said, I feel like the 24+ land builds with Cryptic may yield better results in the current metagame.
Thanks for the congrats and reading the write-up!
The Timmy in me wants to make it happen...
EDIT: My God that masterpiece art is terrible
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
If you are into that effect just run Goblin Dark Dwelleers. It's a fine card if you have the space for it. It's very hard to block and it can brick a lot of creatures. It can also flashback AV and costs 1 mana less than gearhulk.
Yeah I was looking at it but the reason I didn't like it is the lack of flash. I liked the idea of a Gearhulk coming down and killing a Reality Smasher/Thought Knot or a Goyf while flashing back something sweet. Unfortunately our sweetest instant is Lightning Helix :/
In modern the flash isn't all that relevant. I'd rather just slam Elspeth (most of the time at 6 mana). Card just crushes.
Yep I bring Elspeth in against Grixis and Jund and she does work.
My last Grixis opponent Dreadbored my Nahiri and looked all smug about it and I immediately played Elspeth and won two turns later lol.
Ah, a fellow foil player. I'm at 67/75 foil in Jeskai = p
I always find it funny when people fail to count Emrakul when they are counting up their 4CMC+ cards.