Hi guys, long time no see? What have you all been up to? *reads the last two pages* Oh, no.
Okay, well, I'll just weigh in.
Regarding sweepers, you want at least 3 and, given how big stuff is these days, at least 3-damage is preferable. I use 3 Anger in the MB, but preferring or mixing with Sweltering Suns makes sense, especially if humans is what you're after. Regardless, you better have a lot of different ways to murder Meddling Mage and Kitesail Freebooter, or you won't be casting any sweepers at all. For this reason alone, it's really handy to have both Skred and Abrade, in addition to Bolt.
As for the 4-mana planeswalkers, their uses are all distinct.
Chandra ToD is one of our most flexible long game cards, providing key boosts of mana, virtual card advantage, or removal on demand, not to mention a good ultimate for finishing the game. Even with the inability of Chandra ToD to hit rival PWs now, she's still great, and you should consider running two or more.
Koth is still great as well. Many people seem eager to replace him because they think Chandra or Karn generate more card advantage. While they do, Koth is essential to our ability to fight other Control decks and to turn games into a win quickly. He reaches his ultimate faster than just about anything, and does so while chucking mountains at the enemy. Remember how much fun it was pegging that smug brat Nahiri right in her rock-biting, tentacle-obsessed face? Well, Koth can still do that to Jace, Teferi, and others, which is quite relevant; in other words, he does exactly what people are bemoaning that Chandra can't do anymore. He is also a fast clock that can't be answered with the standard creature removal suite. Finally, the trick of animating opposing Mountains (often artificially made with Blood Moon) and then blasting them with Skred is still valuable, and Chandra can join in the blasting fun as well. I don't play four copies anymore, but it would take a lot of convincing to get me to go below three.
Karn is new, and there is no arguing he is powerful. He is a major (almost unequaled) source of card advantage, and the constructs can be a very quick clock. However, he is not for every build. He does not synergize with Ensnaring Bridge, but neither generally does Koth and that's not the point. He wants to be in a build that will maximize the effects of his ultimate, and that means one with lots of Artifacts. If you play the full sets of Relic, Mind Stone, and at least 3 PnKN, there is potentially something quite valuable here, as Relic, Stone, Karn+construct, PnKN+construct has you holding a pair of 6/6s, a pair of fliers, and a shock-generator with lots of ammunition. That said, if you lack the abundance of artifacts, you're mostly looking at a source of card advantage that you may be able to better provide elsewhere.
The other PWs vary in utility. I'm not crazy about Chandra, the Firebrand; but Chandra, Pyromaster provides good removal for tiny creatures and even better card advantage than CToD. However, the ultimate may not be good enough, depending on what your build tends to place in the bin. Jaya is to my mind kind of like a pricier CToD, and I'd rather the latter. Chandra, Flamecaller is a stellar finisher and sweeper though, and still worthy of consideration.
For reference, this is what I'm on currently. I'm not saying it's the best build, but only that it works for me.
What do you guys think about idea that Skred is the worst Blood Moon deck?
The moment you play your snowed land (thats t1) any competent player will put you on Skred and play accordingly
We cant cast it t2 (well we can, but majority builds cant) and t3 is usually late
We cant put extra copies to use
Im kinda frustrated by the amount of t3 blood moons resulted in lost games for me
Not to mention some decks run Blood Moon themselves so it doesnt hurt them
What do you guys think about idea that Skred is the worst Blood Moon deck?
The moment you play your snowed land (thats t1) any competent player will put you on Skred and play accordingly
We cant cast it t2 (well we can, but majority builds cant) and t3 is usually late
We cant put extra copies to use
Im kinda frustrated by the amount of t3 blood moons resulted in lost games for me
Not to mention some decks run Blood Moon themselves so it doesnt hurt them
I can definitely see where you’re coming from with this. Any player worth their salt is going to know what deck your playing the second you lay down your first land. It’s one of our decks biggest weaknesses, and impossible to mitigate, which only adds to the frustration.
In my case, my Blood Moons are in the sideboard and my Molten Rains are in the main deck. I do it this way to subvert my opponents’ expectations: they’re anticipating Blood Moon, so I can fake them out in the first game by making them think Blood Moons are out of my budget, so when they plan accordingly in the next game I can catch them off guard.
I’m also working on a version of Skred without Blood Moon entirely, replacing it with Ensnaring Bridge and Koth with Sarkhan The Dragonspeaker. I also plan to add Walking Ballistas and use those, P & K, and Hazoret’s fling abilities to wear my opponent down slowly. I’ll post a list when I’m done testing it and how it functions. To be honest, I don’t like altering the deck so radically at all, and will probably revert to a more traditional list, but the problem at my lgs is that I’m “the Skred Guy” and I have to spice things up before I get shut out cold.
I can understand the idea that we're the worst Blood Moon deck, because it's true. But then again, we're not really just about Blood Moon, anyway. It's just one part of our strategy. The rest is heavy removal and quick offensive elements that are difficult to answer, which is something other Blood Moon decks lack. Blood Moon simply wins against vulnerable decks at no cost to us, and so we use it.
As for Bridge, it's a valid SB card. As for Sarkhan, well, that is a major nonbo with Bridge. But experimentation is good, so all the more power to you.
Its an interesting idea to play without blood moon, I didnt think about it
Yes I can leave it in side for matchups where its good even when opp knows it is coming
Can you explain the lack of mindstone? a t2 mindstone followed by a 4 drop seems to lead to most of my wins with the deck
Mind Stone is an excellent turn 2 play if you are not under any kind of pressure as it accelerates a quick finisher onto the table. If you are under pressure, playing a turn 2 Mind Stone yields a lot of tempo and doesn't really affect the board: they get an extra turn of playing permanents, using abilities, and attacking while you are hoping your turn 3 play turns the game around. In short, it's great versus control, and not great versus aggro or combo.
Playing Mind Stone is, in effect, a meta-call.
Other 2-mana options that can smooth your development include Spellbomb and Magma Jet, while Abrade is a 2-mana option that interacts with many decks effectively.
I think Mindstone is great in the deck
Without it 4-5 drops become too slow for modern
Its cycling ability is great
Also Mindstone instead of Magma Jet or Abrade kinda sets up Anger of Gods
Too bad often we dont have 1cc card to make our t2 better than just Mindstone
That's an interesting build. Not sure you can power up Ballista enough with that configuration. Maybe put 2 Roast in there, to fill the void left by Skred.
Hey guys went to my local fnm last night with mono red control (I don't play snow lands or skred). I went 2-2 I won against BW eldrazi 2-0 they are super soft to blood moon. Also won against Humans 2-1 I pack a lot of sweepers anger, suns,and pyroclasm wich was hard for him to keep his meddling mages in play with.
I lost to eldrazi tron and merfolk 0-2 both matches against e-tron he had turn 3 tron both games but game one fetched a wastes instead of his last tron piece when he saw blood moon come down and I got taken to town by thoughtknot and smashers I couldn't deal with. Game two he had natural turn 3 tron with karn he plused karn up to 10 and I think this is where my mis play was I dropped a stormbreath instead of a blood moon which he would have to remove before he could play anything else and I could have probably dropped stormbreath next turn and bolted karn to get rid of him instead he took blood moon with thoughtknot seer next turn and it all went down hill from there.
Against fish turn 1 vial into turn 2 adept and lord into turn 3 lord lord on the play was to fast for my removal I did end up stabilizing at 1 life but she had two fairy conclave I couldn't deal with so I lost. game 2 my turn 3 koth got countered and turn 4 stormbreath got locked down with some fish that keeps it tapped I drew alot of sweepers but she had multiples of that guy to keep stormy out for the whole game and I never drew another threat or land to monstrous storm breath while she preceded to lock out my removal with chalice it was frustrating but sometimes you just draw the wrong half of your deck.
I think if I were to make some changes to my list it would be to add a couple abrade main and maybe a couple bridges side because every deck I faced was stone cold dead to bridge except for a very few lucky draws from e-tron
Skredless Skred has interested me for some time, but I question it's viability. I think having one mana removal that can kill anything in the lategame is mandatory in this type of deck.
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I'm at 3 Skred and 2 Roast. Skred is handy to kill Heirarchs on turn 1 (or force bad decisions with Ravager), but takes a while before it's ready for fish-frying. Roast works to bridge that gap.
im looking to build this deck as my second deck coming from gifts storm my meta is heavy jund, affinity,UW contol,deaths shadow, and 1 ad nauseam. what is a decklist i could refer to?
Sideboards are largely meta dependent. I would include some number of Goblin Rabblemaster and a combination of artifact destruction no matter what, but after that it's up to you to figure out what pieces you need.
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Hey guys I've been playing skred without the snow package for a while now it works for me. I also run a godo bandit warlord and batterskull main which has been great in a lot of match ups it turns grindy games against fair decks into an unwinnable match if it can connect once. I recently sleeved up mono red prison and took it to my local fnm I didn't do so well went 1-3 losing to ponza,affinity,rg eldrazi and beating BW tokens I wanted to play a more controlling version of skred but the lack of removal and sitting behind a bridge that could go at any time didn't sit well with me it led to huge blowouts when the game was handily under control. For this reason until I can test it more I'm back to my mono red skredless skred. My question is there room for a couple bridges and chalice in our board I've found that decks that can go bigger than we can are very difficult to beat due to our lack of mass removal that can kill above 3 toughness. Also has anyone tested goblin chain whirler? This card seems like what we want to do its a great blocker for our walkers and can apply pressure and take care of early creature rather then having to drop an anger or suns to clean out some elves or wait an eta turn against d&t if they have a Thalia out which can be game changing. If you guys think it's a good plan what should I cut for them? My list is pretty stock other than the -4 skred and a 2-2-2 split of anger suns and pyroclasm thanks for any feed back
im looking to build this deck as my second deck coming from gifts storm my meta is heavy jund, affinity,UW contol,deaths shadow, and 1 ad nauseam. what is a decklist i could refer to?
Thats quite diverse assortment of decks they dont share much to have a single best decklist to beat them. I would suggest not going for 3 Angers main. Also Abrade is ok here (and its pretty standard nowadays). Generally Im a bit concerned with 'legendary' on Kia and Kiran but 3 looks good here. I can suggest something like
I've been testing Ensnaring Bridge for a while and I love it.
I had to cut my 3 loved stormbreath dragon but Pia and Kiran Nalaar and Ensnaring Bridge (with a little big help of Eternal Scourge ) are really good defending our walkers.
I'm actually playing 1 Jaya Ballard in main (I wanted Karn, scion of Urza but card advantage and bridge aren't good friends.) and she's just broken, changing lands for anything (even more lands) is a really good deal on Skred, Playing a "Free" Anger of the Gods is nice and giving flashback to all instants and sorcery spells that I played is so stupid, most if you have Chandra, Torch of defiance's emblem.
That is my list now, and I'm gonna play the GP Sao Paulo next moth with it.
Note: Volt Charge can be easily replaced by Abrade .
I tried 2 Abrade, 2 Volt Charge and 1 of each. But I played a lot doing
T2: Mind Stone
T3: Koth and Koth's +1.
T4: Volt Charge, Koth's -5 and go next game.
I'm getting 3 Bridges which I might give a go. As for Volt Charge, that's a very clever bit of acceleration. Ultimating Koth on turn 4 does indeed seem very good.
Okay, well, I'll just weigh in.
Regarding sweepers, you want at least 3 and, given how big stuff is these days, at least 3-damage is preferable. I use 3 Anger in the MB, but preferring or mixing with Sweltering Suns makes sense, especially if humans is what you're after. Regardless, you better have a lot of different ways to murder Meddling Mage and Kitesail Freebooter, or you won't be casting any sweepers at all. For this reason alone, it's really handy to have both Skred and Abrade, in addition to Bolt.
As for the 4-mana planeswalkers, their uses are all distinct.
Chandra ToD is one of our most flexible long game cards, providing key boosts of mana, virtual card advantage, or removal on demand, not to mention a good ultimate for finishing the game. Even with the inability of Chandra ToD to hit rival PWs now, she's still great, and you should consider running two or more.
Koth is still great as well. Many people seem eager to replace him because they think Chandra or Karn generate more card advantage. While they do, Koth is essential to our ability to fight other Control decks and to turn games into a win quickly. He reaches his ultimate faster than just about anything, and does so while chucking mountains at the enemy. Remember how much fun it was pegging that smug brat Nahiri right in her rock-biting, tentacle-obsessed face? Well, Koth can still do that to Jace, Teferi, and others, which is quite relevant; in other words, he does exactly what people are bemoaning that Chandra can't do anymore. He is also a fast clock that can't be answered with the standard creature removal suite. Finally, the trick of animating opposing Mountains (often artificially made with Blood Moon) and then blasting them with Skred is still valuable, and Chandra can join in the blasting fun as well. I don't play four copies anymore, but it would take a lot of convincing to get me to go below three.
Karn is new, and there is no arguing he is powerful. He is a major (almost unequaled) source of card advantage, and the constructs can be a very quick clock. However, he is not for every build. He does not synergize with Ensnaring Bridge, but neither generally does Koth and that's not the point. He wants to be in a build that will maximize the effects of his ultimate, and that means one with lots of Artifacts. If you play the full sets of Relic, Mind Stone, and at least 3 PnKN, there is potentially something quite valuable here, as Relic, Stone, Karn+construct, PnKN+construct has you holding a pair of 6/6s, a pair of fliers, and a shock-generator with lots of ammunition. That said, if you lack the abundance of artifacts, you're mostly looking at a source of card advantage that you may be able to better provide elsewhere.
The other PWs vary in utility. I'm not crazy about Chandra, the Firebrand; but Chandra, Pyromaster provides good removal for tiny creatures and even better card advantage than CToD. However, the ultimate may not be good enough, depending on what your build tends to place in the bin. Jaya is to my mind kind of like a pricier CToD, and I'd rather the latter. Chandra, Flamecaller is a stellar finisher and sweeper though, and still worthy of consideration.
For reference, this is what I'm on currently. I'm not saying it's the best build, but only that it works for me.
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Eternal Scourge
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Glorybringer
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Enchantment
3 Blood Moon
Land
2 Scrying Sheets
21 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Relic of Progenitus
Instant
3 Skred
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrade
Sorcery
3 Faithless Looting
3 Anger of the Gods
Planeswalker
3 Koth of the Hammer
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Legion Warboss
4 Dragon's Claw
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
The moment you play your snowed land (thats t1) any competent player will put you on Skred and play accordingly
We cant cast it t2 (well we can, but majority builds cant) and t3 is usually late
We cant put extra copies to use
Im kinda frustrated by the amount of t3 blood moons resulted in lost games for me
Not to mention some decks run Blood Moon themselves so it doesnt hurt them
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I can definitely see where you’re coming from with this. Any player worth their salt is going to know what deck your playing the second you lay down your first land. It’s one of our decks biggest weaknesses, and impossible to mitigate, which only adds to the frustration.
In my case, my Blood Moons are in the sideboard and my Molten Rains are in the main deck. I do it this way to subvert my opponents’ expectations: they’re anticipating Blood Moon, so I can fake them out in the first game by making them think Blood Moons are out of my budget, so when they plan accordingly in the next game I can catch them off guard.
I’m also working on a version of Skred without Blood Moon entirely, replacing it with Ensnaring Bridge and Koth with Sarkhan The Dragonspeaker. I also plan to add Walking Ballistas and use those, P & K, and Hazoret’s fling abilities to wear my opponent down slowly. I’ll post a list when I’m done testing it and how it functions. To be honest, I don’t like altering the deck so radically at all, and will probably revert to a more traditional list, but the problem at my lgs is that I’m “the Skred Guy” and I have to spice things up before I get shut out cold.
As for Bridge, it's a valid SB card. As for Sarkhan, well, that is a major nonbo with Bridge. But experimentation is good, so all the more power to you.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Yes I can leave it in side for matchups where its good even when opp knows it is coming
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Mind Stone is an excellent turn 2 play if you are not under any kind of pressure as it accelerates a quick finisher onto the table. If you are under pressure, playing a turn 2 Mind Stone yields a lot of tempo and doesn't really affect the board: they get an extra turn of playing permanents, using abilities, and attacking while you are hoping your turn 3 play turns the game around. In short, it's great versus control, and not great versus aggro or combo.
Playing Mind Stone is, in effect, a meta-call.
Other 2-mana options that can smooth your development include Spellbomb and Magma Jet, while Abrade is a 2-mana option that interacts with many decks effectively.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Without it 4-5 drops become too slow for modern
Its cycling ability is great
Also Mindstone instead of Magma Jet or Abrade kinda sets up Anger of Gods
Too bad often we dont have 1cc card to make our t2 better than just Mindstone
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I'm testing it a lot on mtgo for one week, looks really good and fun to play.
Maybe I'm gonna play this deck at Gp Barcelona in 3 weeks.
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Koth of the Hammer
Enchantment
3 Blood Moon
Creatures
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Walking Ballista
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Mind Stone
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Shrapnel Blast
1 Slagstorm
Lands
18 Mountain
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Abrade
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Damping Sphere
2 Dragon's Claw
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
Good interactions :
I'm thinking about switching 1 Anger of the gods for 1 Sweltering Suns to be more resilient to Meddling Mage
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
I lost to eldrazi tron and merfolk 0-2 both matches against e-tron he had turn 3 tron both games but game one fetched a wastes instead of his last tron piece when he saw blood moon come down and I got taken to town by thoughtknot and smashers I couldn't deal with. Game two he had natural turn 3 tron with karn he plused karn up to 10 and I think this is where my mis play was I dropped a stormbreath instead of a blood moon which he would have to remove before he could play anything else and I could have probably dropped stormbreath next turn and bolted karn to get rid of him instead he took blood moon with thoughtknot seer next turn and it all went down hill from there.
Against fish turn 1 vial into turn 2 adept and lord into turn 3 lord lord on the play was to fast for my removal I did end up stabilizing at 1 life but she had two fairy conclave I couldn't deal with so I lost. game 2 my turn 3 koth got countered and turn 4 stormbreath got locked down with some fish that keeps it tapped I drew alot of sweepers but she had multiples of that guy to keep stormy out for the whole game and I never drew another threat or land to monstrous storm breath while she preceded to lock out my removal with chalice it was frustrating but sometimes you just draw the wrong half of your deck.
I think if I were to make some changes to my list it would be to add a couple abrade main and maybe a couple bridges side because every deck I faced was stone cold dead to bridge except for a very few lucky draws from e-tron
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
2x Scrying Sheets
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Skred
3x Anger of the Gods
4x Mind Stone (or Magma Jet, which I prefer against Jund)
3x Blood Moon
4x Koth of the Hammer (sometimes 3)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance (sometimes 3 if you're playing 3 Koth)
3x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Stormbreath Dragon
Sideboards are largely meta dependent. I would include some number of Goblin Rabblemaster and a combination of artifact destruction no matter what, but after that it's up to you to figure out what pieces you need.
2x Eternal Scourge
3x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3x Stormbreath Dragon
Spells (29)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Koth of the Hammer
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Blood Moon
2x Abrade
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Skred
4x Mind Stone
4x Relic of Progenitus
3x Scrying Sheets
20x Snow-Covered Mountain
1x Anger of the Gods
2x Dragon's Claw
2x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Molten Rain
2x Pithing Needle
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Roast
3x Shattering Spree
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I had to cut my 3 loved stormbreath dragon but Pia and Kiran Nalaar and Ensnaring Bridge (with a little big help of Eternal Scourge ) are really good defending our walkers.
I'm actually playing 1 Jaya Ballard in main (I wanted Karn, scion of Urza but card advantage and bridge aren't good friends.) and she's just broken, changing lands for anything (even more lands) is a really good deal on Skred, Playing a "Free" Anger of the Gods is nice and giving flashback to all instants and sorcery spells that I played is so stupid, most if you have Chandra, Torch of defiance's emblem.
That is my list now, and I'm gonna play the GP Sao Paulo next moth with it.
1 Mouth of Ronom
2 Scrying Sheets
17 Snow-Covered Mountain
//Spells
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Dismember
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Jaya Ballard
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mind Stone
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Skred
2 Volt Charge
2 Eternal Scourge
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Blood Moon
2 Damping Sphere
2 Dragon's Claw
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Pithing Needle
2 Shattering Spree
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Torpor Orb
1 Witchbane Orb
Note: Volt Charge can be easily replaced by Abrade .
I tried 2 Abrade, 2 Volt Charge and 1 of each. But I played a lot doing
T2: Mind Stone
T3: Koth and Koth's +1.
T4: Volt Charge, Koth's -5 and go next game.
Hope you like it
R Skred
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB