A weird thought based on the prior past: Abrade may be better than Bolt MB generally. We're not going to the face much with Bolt, as indicated. We already have Relic and Skred at 1-mana (not that we will often Skred that early), and 2-mana removal also being able to remove Lantern, Chalice, or the like seems good (and probably frees up a whole bunch of SB slots). The one thing I'm not as crazy about is being unable to reliably "Bolt the Bird."
Alternatively, it may be better to flip Abrade and Skred, and then shove Skred into opened SB slots. This weakens some matchups like Eldrazi-Tron, but strengthens others like Lantern Prison, Affinity, and Big-Tron.
Skred Tournament Report –Top 8 finish in - 65 Player Modern 2k
(this is a copy+paste of what I posted to reddit). I meant to get this report written up a few days ago but I’ve been pretty busy. I attended a 65 player modern tournament on April 7th and did fairly well with Skred. I apologize for the lack of details (like sideboarding notes, etc,) as I’ve never written a report like this before and was mainly there to have a good time, which I definitely succeeded in. I’ve been on Skred as my primary modern deck since October 2016 and I realize it seems a little weaker in this meta than it has been, but it surprised me with how well it held up at the event.
Started the day off with a loss. Not too familiar with the matchup and I had held up a relic game 1 thinking he needed to cast a sorcery to recur the graveyard and go off. Turns out it was a build that uses the mana to hardcast Emrakul, which happened both games. There was probably a lot of ways I could’ve handled the matchup better but my opponent was able to go off both games.
U/W Control (Win 2-0) – 1-1 Record
I’ve always found UW/x control decks to be pretty favorable due to the must answer nature of Skred’s threats and how poorly the removal lines up. Game 1 was pretty straightforward with me being on the front foot the whole time. A stormbreath and thopters from P&K did the majority of the work, and 3 bolts to the face cleaned things up once I had baited Cryptic mana out. Game 2 was pretty similar – I think the game was won by a monstrous Stormbreath.
Ponza (Win 2-1) – 2-1 Record
Another matchup that I’ve generally found to be favorable. He won the first match with some land destruction and me being unable to get back to 4 mana. Don’t remember the exactly details of games 2 and 3 but some molten rains directed at enchanted forests and removal for all elves did some work. The destroyed lands kept his mana in check and a Hazoret cleaned up the third game. Dealing with the combo of Nissa, P&K and BBE from my opponent was a bit of a tough value grind but in the end I managed to break through the stalls.
R/G Eldrazi (Win 2-0) – 3-1 Record
Wasn’t sure exactly what I was up against the first 2 turns of game 1 but I bolted the bird and the Hierarch that came out. I top decked a Blood Moon for turn 3 right before he got an Eldrazi Temple down and mana screwed him out of the game.
Game 2 turned into a topdeck war where I eventually got another Blood Moon down and Molten Rained his basic forest to keep him off Natural State. He ended up with 3 Matter Reshapers on the field before the moon hit so it was a tricky game of navigating that race without having to block too early. Eternal Scourge held off the attack for a bit and I finally blocked one Reshaper and Bolted the other one before turning the corner and finishing the game off.
Burn (Win 2-0) – 4-1 Record
The burn matchup is always a stressful one as it’s always a tossup a to whether or not the cards line up properly. Game 1 definitely played out how I wanted it to as I spent the first 3 turns removing his creatures (2 Swiftspears and an Eidolon). I got a blood moon down after killing Eidolon and it stranded some white spells in hand. From there, I closed out the game with both Eternal Scourges.
Game 2 went well with a good amount of removal, both Scourges out again, and a Dragons Claw that I drew into. I got on the beatdown pretty quickly so my opponent ended up having to direct burn spells at my Eternal Scourges. I think I finished the game at 18 life after the Claw Triggers gained about 7 or so.
Hollow One (Win 2-1) – 5-1 Record
This match was against a regular at our LGS and was friendly but also the best game of Magic I had all day. Game 1 I had a hard time catching up and eventually got run down by recursion without a relic available. Game 2 I found the disruption I needed and eventually closed out the game.
Game 3 was one of the best games I’ve played and had a lot of back and forth. I had access to 2 relics (both were eventually popped at the right times) but was choked on 3 mana (2 mountains and 1 stone) with a grip of 5 of my threats in hand. I was stuck doing nothing for a few turns but with the relics available before I finally hit the 4th land drop and the floodgates were open. From there, it was a matter of resource management to get my threats on board as quickly as possible through Koth and Chandra ramping, while preserving my life total through chump blocks and eventually answer most threats through bolts, Skreds and sweepers (including 2 for 3s to finish off Hollow Ones and Anglers). I stabilized at 1 life while chumping a Bloodghast and fading bolt off the top until I closed out the game with a Stormbreath and friends.
Mono Green Tron (ID) – 5-1-1 Record
Drew this round to secure top 8 and grab some food between rounds. Turns out my opponent was on some kind of G/x Tron. Glad I didn’t have to face that!
Bogles (Loss 1-2)
My opponent and I both knew our decks going into this match so we had an idea of how this was going to play out but I still had fun knowing it was probably a 90-10 matchup in his favor.
Game 1 was actually pretty close. Raced him with T3 P&K, and T4 and T5 Stormbreath. He was at 14 the last turn of the game and I had 13 damage + 1 bolt in hand (2 Stormbreaths, one monstrous and 2 thopters swinging in) but turn 0 Leyline made the bolt useless.
Game 2 went about as well as it could’ve. A turn 2 Ratchet Bomb managed to take out a totem armor and then a K-Return finished off 3 of his creatures at once. He didn’t draw many auras after that and I closed the game out quickly.
Game 3 was a loss with relevant cards in hand, but being on the draw made my 3 mana sweepers too slow. Tried to race but a Daybreak Coronet caused him to win the game and finish at 30+ life.
Thoughts/Card choices:
Stormbreath Dragon:
I had considered cutting 1 or 2 in place of Glorybringers and/or a Sarkhan for cuteness/removal factor but, as someone else on Reddit put it, “I’ve never been let down by Stormbreath Dragon.” I think the 3 of is pretty solid, although a singleton Glorybringer could be a reasonable meta call. Also, if you’re ever stuck at 4 mana with a Stormbreath and a P&K in hand, casting mom and pop will immediately result in a path directed at them so you can untap with 5 mana (happened 4 times that I can remember over the course of the tournament).
Eternal Scourge:
I have done a lot thinking about this card’s slot, as I feel other Skred players likely have, too. Sometimes it just feels bad but at the same time, I can’t seem to cut it. I used to run Reckoner when I first started playing the deck and I prefer what it does (walls small dudes, blocks eldrazi successfully and allows you to Skred the face) but I do acknowledge it will often eat their removal spell they’ve been holding and provide a tempo disadvantage. The week leading up to the tournament, I was scrutinizing this slot and was considering running Reckoner or Rabblemaster in its place but in the end I feel it was the right call to play Scourge. One day, something will come to take its place but for now I’ll be keeping them in the MD.
Sideboard:
I’m very happy with the sideboard. K-Return deals with anything pro-red in the format and provides an extra set of sweepers in matchups where that’s needed. I feel the 4 claws are necessary and I never leave home without them. Always seems to be at least 1 burn match anytime I play, even if they’re kinda bad in other matchups. I wish I had 4 Molten Rain when needed but 3 felt like a good number.
Conclusion:
I just can’t stop playing this deck! I feel the meta hasn’t been too friendly to Skred lately (maybe the rason for the lack of 5-0 finishes on MODO) but it still has legs.
I like the idea of magma jet but I can't get away from all the things mindstone can do it draws cards exclerates our mana and in a pinch can be sacked to pnkn for the last two points to burn someone out or kill their last flying blocker to make way for a storm breath. I get that magma jet is is a solid card but mindstone can be extra draw against lantern and can help keep your had full against 8rack. I'm not saying that magma jet is bad but mindstone works so well at helping to drop early threats and draws us a card in the late game. I am always happy to see a mindstone in my opener or most any time. Also I like the 27 mana sources it defiantly helped me pay the monstrous on stormy and have mana to board wipe then recast an eternal scourge which by the way every opponent I have done this to sighs
Why is this in "Control" and not "Midrange"? I don't come here often so I don't know when they reorganized this forum.
Mind Stone is very strong and I wouldn't want to sleeve this deck without it. We don't have much to play on two and I don't think Magma Jet is worth dropping Mind Stone from the deck for. I'd much rather find room in the maindeck for both. I was playing 2x Dismember MB last summer due to GDS and I think you could use Magma Jet to kill Meddling Mage/Kitesail Freebooter/Bob/Bloodbraid/Flameblade Adept game 1s in a similar fashion, but I don't get why you'd need to cut Mind Stone to do so. T3 Chandra and especially T3 Koth are just such powerful plays I feel like this deck is doing itself a disservice by not utilizing it. I think a Mind Stone-less version would want SSGs.
I totally agree about mindstone it is so versatile. And I've always thought this was control, I play it as control, in the version I play it keeps the board clear with spot removal and 6 md sweepers then sticks a planeswalker or other finisher and control the board with removal. When I play the deck I always keep track of my opponents hand size when deciding what to play usually if I'm running out of gas I can do nothing for a turn and bait my opponent into over extending thinking that they can capitalize and win, then wipe the board and stick a walker and crack my mindstone and relics to refuel and that is usually enough to lock up the game. As to the chandra/koth split and dropping mindstone I think people don't utilize koth's -2 as much as they should. I've sand bagged him a turn then drop him and use his minus to drop a pnkn or board wipe to stabilize it works well just remember we are a CONTROL deck and need to play as such
As to the chandra/koth split and dropping mindstone I think people don't utilize koth's -2 as much as they should. I've sand bagged him a turn then drop him and use his minus to drop a pnkn or board wipe to stabilize it works well just remember we are a CONTROL deck and need to play as such
This is the reason why I opt to play 4 Chandra ToD instead of Koth, because she is a better control walker than Koth. Her +1 add RR ability is not to be underestimated. When I first played Skred I was quite surprised at how much it played a control game and I find the draw you get from the Chandras has more overall value than the power Koth offers.
I play reanimator in legacy, and I don't run the petals. I see now that this is the same type of thing when it comes to Koth/Chandra. Most players like the raw power of cards. I tend to lean towards consistency. The power of running petals in reanimator can give you some insane turn 1 plays. A petal-less version will not have that raw power, but is overall more consistent by giving you more room for draw spells, discard, removal, etc. For Skred, nothing beats an unanswered T3 Koth on an empty board. It's just pure power. It's power Chandra can't remotely touch on the same empty board on T3. However, her value at every stage of the game is high, while never insane. Koth has insane highs and rock bottom lows. I've always leaned towards consistency over unstable power. I guess that's why I eventually dropped Koth and now run 6 Chandras.
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Standard: N/A
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
I play
2 anger of the gods
2 sweltering suns
2 pyroclasm
4 lightning bolt
1 pyrite spell bomb
It has worked well especially with mindstone having the extra mana to drop an anger then bolt a wurmcoil or drop double sweepers to take care of eldrazi is nice with the relics goyf isn't an issue and the pyroclasm are nice on turn 2 vs elves, affinity , any of the company decks, goblins, merfolk.against other contol decks they kind of suck but still can kill snapcasters or clique and suns can cycle into somthing else thays why i play the 2-2-2 split
ROUND 1 – JUND
Game 1 – The day started out a little rough. I kept a two land two stone hand, and after playing the second one on turn 3, he Maelstrom Plused them and left me on 3 lands for the rest of the game with two skreds in hand facing down a 6/7 Goyf who ultimately did 17 damage.
Game 2 – Possibly my best game of the tournament. He played Blood Braid Elf into a Liliana, The Last Hope who he used to -2 which found him a Dark Confidant on the mill. While I had some spot removal, I decided to ignore BBE, and killed all of his more dangerous threats as they hit the board. Two turns after his BFF, he played Liliana of the Veil and made us discard. On an empty board on my side, I was facing two Lilianas at 4 loyalty each and a BBE. I drew a Stormbreath Dragon who took out Veil, and then kept Last Hope at bay until I monstrous’ed to finish her off and win the game in two swings. BBE ended up doing 15 damage, but that is all he did as we both drew a little heavy on lands.
Game 3 – I held off a 2 Goyf/Bob board early as I found 4 Chandras (2 of each) and all three PnKN who ended up finishing the game by sac’ing two dudes and then bolt.
1-0
ROUND 2 – BURN
Game 1 – My opponent drew all gas and won with only 2 lands in play. I Had no chance. I felt I was close to stabilizing, but he drew too many 3 damage spells.
Game 2 – I was proud of the deck on this one, as it shows its resiliency. I ended up having to mulligan to 4 cards. My hand was 2 lands, Chandra ToD and Anger. He played spell after spell, with his first creature being Eidelon. I played Chandra to take him out. I tried to dig for one of my Dragon’s claws (which the first one was 24 cards away once the game was over), but all I found were PnKN, and he just kept top decking spells instead of creatures. In the end, he was out of gas with no cards in hand, he was at 11 and I had a Chandra, with PnKN and 4 Thopters on the board. Had he run into just a couple more creatures or lands, the mull to 4 could have had a chance.
1-1
ROUND 3 – ELVES
Game 1 – I drew a ton of spot removal to keep his board at bay and won with a Stormbreath Dragon.
Game 2 – Kept a 2 land, 3 Anger hand. Found both Scourges and proceeded to win on the 2x 3/3 beatdown. Flooded out a little and finished with 9 lands. 3 Angers is good against Elves
2-1
ROUND 4 – UW SPIRITS
Game 1 – There was a funny interaction on this one. He has two non-basics and a Windsept Heath. I play Blood Moon. He cracks his fetch and drops an Island. I point out that he can’t do that, he apologizes for his misplay and gets a Plains (not intentional, he was actually a really nice guy). He’s now sad that he doesn’t have his blue source. I pass the turn, and he proceeds to top deck an Island. He had a nice board that I swept away with Anger and then followed up with the Stormbreath beatdown as he looked helplessly at his path.
Game 2 – Anger of the Gods was once again an all-star. Drew into two of them and had Chandra, ToD do the majority of the heavy lifting.
3-1
ROUND 5 – STORM
Game 1 – I drew into one relic to made the game go long, but he went off eventually. Had him at 8
Game 2 – Kept a sketchy hand, but I had two relics, but of course he found is Empty the Warrens and made 14 goblins on t3, and I was stuck on 2 lands. I really hate storm.
3-2
ROUND 6 – PONZA
Game 1 – I played first and he had a slow start, so my Blood Moon turn three turned out to be a dud play as he played Magus of the Moon on his turn. He never found a relevant threat, so Chandra ToD and PnKN won the game easily.
Game 2 – This was another good showing of the deck’s resiliency. I had a bolt, so was sad when he played sprawl on turn 1. On his T2 he stone rain’ed my land, and then Mwonvuli Acid-Moss’ed my second land on his T3. On his turn 4 he BBE into Stone Rain. I took beats from BBE for a few turns, but I was able to stick two lands, play a mind stone and then dropped an Ensnaring Bridge. I was at 10. His elf hit me one more time to put me to 9. Behind the bridge I stabilized, playing out all of my threats. I even got to 7 mana to monstrous Stormbreath (for one damage on his draw step) while 5 mountains resided in my graveyard. The final play was PnKN eating the bridge and Stormbreath finishing the game.
4-2
ROUND 7 – BOGGLES
Game 1 – We both mull’ed to 6, and he kept a 2 leyline hand. He drew into two lands which quickly became mountains and he was unable to play spells as Stormbreath once again cleaned things up.
Game 2 - He quickly got three boggles on the board, and his big one with two rancors were kept at bay with an Ensnaring bridge. I had PnKN and he thought about blocking with his 5/1 but didn’t. He top decked Fate Seal to blow up the bridge and win.
Game 3 – He hit me once on turn 2 for 5 before I laid down the bridge and built up a board. I eventually found the second bridge and played that too. His boys were getting really big. With Chandra Pyromaster, I was digging for my Ratchet Bomb as 90% of his board was 1 CMC. In the end with the help of a few Chandra pings and PnKN eating some thopters and the bridges on the last turn, I got him to zero. He was super sour and a poor sport about losing. It made winning against boggles that much sweeter.
5-2
At the end of the day, I finished 13th out of 94, missing top8 by a point. Still was in the prizes so it was a good day.
Thoughts:
-Stormbreath is an all-star. Never am I sad to draw him or cast him. I only drew Glorybringer once or twice during the day, so still not sure about him. I don’t think a 2/1 spill with Stormbreath is wrong.
-PnKN is also an all-star. I decided not to run my 1-of Walking Balista, deciding to go with three PnKNs instead. I do not regret the decision.
-Anger of the Gods. While the versatility to cycle Sweltering Suns is nice, I don't think it's as valuable as the exile clause on Anger. When my opponent follows the sweep with a Scavenging Ooze without creatures to make him grow, allowing me to bolt it was relevant. That and with dredge/hollow one/etc decks around, it's all value. Never once did I look at my Anger and thought "I wish I could cycle this".
-Chandra, Pyromaster. I’m not sure about her. She was unimpressive on the day and I ended up siding her out on a few matchups. Not sure what to replace her with as she did do some work in some games. I think she’s very matchup dependant.
-Bridge in the side board is great. Every time I decide to bring it in, it is relevant. I’ve had them in my board since the start and I would never take them out now, especially after that Boggles win.
-Two things I love about the deck. 1) Not taking damage from your lands. 2) Not having to search/shuffle your library every turn.
-I hate storm. It’s a stupid deck, and I must face it at least once every tournament. </tiny rant>
-I was happy with my list overall. Abrades did a bit of work, and I would keep them as a 2-of as there were a few Hollow One decks running around. I loved that I felt like I always had an out to play to. As for the discussion about moving away from the Stones. Not a chance for me. They were great for me all day. I did not mind running 27 mana sources. Again, this is a control deck that doesn’t mind getting to 7 mana to monstrous Stormbreath or to activate PnKN multiple times a turn.
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Standard: N/A
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
Nice run, DarthFrog! While I don't agree with all of your conclusions, I still love the innovation I'm seeing in that list. Some thoughts:
- I tried out Chandra Pyromaster the other day, and was also unimpressed.
- Bridge in the board seems cool in general; I imagine it'd be even better if you were on Koth (his ultimate is another way to win the game under a Bridge).
- Abrade seems great here.
- I think Storm is a matchup that will suffer because you've cut Koth. Our removal, Relics, and Dragon's Claws do a surprising amount of disruption, but you still need to close the game. Sideboard Rabblemasters help, but Koth is your fastest maindeck finisher.
Thanks TexasGoyf. Chandra's ultimate is just as good as Koth's. I've closed out games with her ult on many occasions. It can actually be faster than Koth's, so behind the Bridge, it really doesn't matter who you run.
I agree with the storm matchup. I was actually unimpressed with Rabblemasters out of the side yesterday as well, not sure I want to keep them. Maybe I'll either move Koth in there, or have Koth replace Pyromasters as planeswalker #5 and #6 in the main. I actually tried Scab-Clan Berserker on modo and may actually move to that route instead of the goblin for the next tournament.
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Standard: N/A
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
I've owned Skred for a while, buying into it as a New Year's resolution to play more magic last year. I started on a stock list, altered to hell and back a few months, then went 0-4 for a few months in a row. I don't usually quit things, but that stomping streak coincided with a bad time in my life so I stopped playing MTG altogether. That said seeing your favorite deck on stream will do wonders for your interests in the game, and I wanted to try and ease back into playing again. I'm starting to feel like a person again and wanted to help inject some ideas into this Abrade and Magma Jet card discussion.
I liked to play a more Burn-ie Skred build. So I cycled in Forked Bolts, Magma Jets, Slagstorms, and Exquisite Firecrafts into the deck to see how they would work. I loved the utility of all these cards and I felt they helped grind out my opponent, but being out of the game for a bit I'm not sure how they fair anymore in current meta since the unbannings. So, if you willing to have the perspective of a lapsed Skredder, these are my experiences with some of the cards listed.
Magma Jet - As discussed it simply smoothing draws is powerful. In a lower CMC more burn heavy deck like my build, it helps tremendously. The added bonus of filtering the top deck for ToD's +1, Scrying Sheets, or (in a wild experiment) Thunderous Wrath* is super powerful and feels great. Taking out the Mind Stones feels bad when you are used to turn 3 Koth/Chandra/PnK, but being able to keep the board clean and smooth your draws felt nicer IMO. That said if you get to games where you have 15+ mana and you and your opponent are in the land of Grin, Mind Stone's pure card draw might be better.
*Note: Don't use TW. It is explosive but is just a bit too cute for my liking.
Exquisite Firecraft - This was a sideboard card that actually pulled a lot of work. I slotted it in instead of Ricochet Trap as my LGS apparently has never heard of that card and never has it in stock. Our 3-drop slot is focused on Sweepers, so it is an easy SB against low count creatures decks. The spell mastery has never really been a problem when I ran it, even with disruption (including our Relic) we can get 2 Instants or Sorceries in the bin fairly quickly. That said, I don't think this is ever mainboard material. If we wanted a dual purpose Removal/Damage Spell I've found Slagstorm to be better MD.
Slag Storm - Yeah, this is basically a Sweltering Suns that bolts instead of draws. I'm a player who is fine killing themselves a bit in order to beat the opponent. I prefer the damage aspect to the card draw of Sweltering Suns, but I will admit I've never played with Sweltering Suns. I think with the Magma Jet scry smoothing draws Slagstorm might be more flexible than Sweltering Suns. The self-damage from the bolt mode of Slagstorm is significant though, and it is really bad in fast aggro match-ups or late game when you and your opponent are low. Though you could be the monster who like the end matches with Double KO draws in which case this is your card.
Forked Bolt - This card is really strange. It is mostly another turn 1 play to kill dorks or to kill X/1's mid-game. The fact we have a lot of Sweepers does make this more of a contentious card. But I enjoyed the utility of it, and with the change to Planeswalker damage, it might have a good spot in certain builds of the deck.
Of note: I've loved Hazorret (Dog-Mom) in this deck. A lot of the card I mention being bad in the late she just turns into damage. I only run 1, so there is risk there, but she has yet to fail me. As mentioned by someone else she is like inverse Stormbreath. She beats face, draws removal, and kills if the opponent can't deal with her.
Cards I haven't tried, but have caught my eye but I'm going to test out:
Sweltering Suns - I've read about it here, and it was on my buy-list before I fell out of playing.
Abrade - More redundancy, more utility, more of what I like in my cards. 3 Damage or kill an Artifact. Funny enough, Abrade might be good in the mirror. Blowing up a Mindstone to cripple a traditional Skred decks reliance on turn 4 threats might it silly enough to work.
Searing Blood - Just another card I saw appearing in response to the rise of humans. Another 2 CMC card, it doesn't feel it will be as good as either magma jet or forked bolt, but I've had people swear up and down about it helping against 5c Humans.
Faithless Looting & Bedlam Reveler - I put these together because having one or the other doesn't feel correct. Faithless ideally gets rid of those dead cards I mentioned earlier. However, I feel FL doesn't do enough to overcome its card disadvantage. Bedlam is interesting as it dies to removal non-bolt/push but continues to draw cards. Both these cards are hurt by blowing up our Relic, but at the same time, this is a powerful engine if you can get it off. I want to try this eventually, adding a second Hazoret, and dropping down the curve a bit (less Mom and Dads and maybe only 1 Stormbreath) to see how it plays.
Other Red "HateBears" - This includes Direfleet Daredevil, Harsh Mentor, and Scab-Clan Berserker. Direfleet seems sweet, but too situational, eating a card from an opponents graveyard and casting it sounds powerful, but slows down my preferred plan of burn and churn. Harsh Mentor has the same problems, its a removal magnet that dies to all removal after maybe 1-2 triggers. I want my creatures to dodge some form of removal or have an immediate effect when I play them. Scab-Clan is a pet card of mine. It has the same issues as DD and HM, but the haste makes me want it to be good. There might be a build out there that goes more creature heavy with these three (or even Rampaging Ferocidon) instead of burn cards but that changes the deck to a more Skred & Taxes deck. Or Snow Tax if you will.
Squee - Newest Dominariat Card I saw. His stat line (2/1) leads me to feel he is weaker than Eternal Scourge (3/3); however I will test his out as he is stick has heck, isn't really taxing on our mana-base and if he gets Path'ed he nets a card, unlike Scourge who just dies to the target.
EDITED IN: Flamewake Phoenix - Fate Reforge might be my favorite set ever, lots of weird cards in it that I want to be good. Flamewake is one of those cards. We have a number of ways to recur it in this deck: Hazoret, Stormbreath, and +1 Koth, it's a hasty flyer, it sounds great, but I'm unsure of how it interacts with Relic. Squee and Eternal Scourge laugh at exile effect. Flamewake dies to a stiff breeze, but it keeps coming back, but usually when we are in the lead. It's interaction with Koth though does help give him stabilizing power, but even then it feels risky. Having never played a non-Scourge build I'm not sure much we care about creatures eating removal. Seems good with a Faithless Looting build.
Again, these are just some observations of mine to continue the discussion of Magma Jet and Abrade. Some of the cards mentioned have been used in the past Skred builds and might want to be looked at again depending on your builds. Specifically, a Faithless, Hazoret, Bedlam, Flamewake Phoenix build might be interested in the old Demigod of Revenge deck archetype. No idea if its good, but feels like a starting point.
Hey man, welcome back to magic. Always nice to hear someone working themselves out of a rough life patch.
One thing to remember when looking at Skred is that it's a control deck. Running Magma Jets instead of Mind Stone, you're cutting away the control player's main weapon: Mana. As I posted above, I lost to burn that drew two lands during the game. This deck can't do that. In your Mind Stone-less list, you are running 10 4-drops and 2 5-drops with 22 lands, 4 scry-2 cards and 6 planeswalkers that allow you to ramp which are all 4-drops and 4 relics to cycle. And the walkers, you would rather not rely on them for their mana abilities.
The last thing I want is to be stuck on 3 mana with this deck. The tournament I just played, I didn't once get mana screwed because of the deck. I got stuck in one game because two stones got Maelstrom Pulsed and I couldn't find a third land (had a third stone to get me to 3 lands). I've played a variety of control decks in my day, and the most important thing when piloting a control deck is to have access to a lot of mana. And the beauty of the stones instead of running 27 lands is that it helps ramp and mitigates the flooding as you can replace them later. They are a beautiful card, and are worth far more than a 2-damage-scry-2.
As for the fork bolt, I would never include it in my 75. We don't need 10 1-cmc burn spells. Abrade is much better here with it's choice of shatter or 3 damage to creature. If you don't want Abrade, find a 2-drop that better suits you. (Keep stones and run two magma jets... I had that on modo for a bit and it was okay)
A question about the relics. I love any deck that can run these puppies main deck, but is 4 the right number? I was happy with my 3 main, but I also run two cages in the side.
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Standard: N/A
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
I'll agree with a lot of what was just said. I've been tinkering with my own list, and I can agree that a few elements seem lackluster. Notably, Skred just isn't good enough now; it's nice to kill big things later on, but 4/4s landing on turns 1 and 2 are not something it can cope with. It has some synergy with Koth as mana-denial, but I don't know if that's good enough either. And since, as mentioned, Snow-Covered Mountains tips the Skred archetype, it may be unwise to continue their use for only the situational Scrying Sheets filter.
One thing I do want to point out though is that Koth should not be compared to Chandra ToD directly. In a longer game, Chandra will generally be better as she can remove creatures, generate card advantage, and has an arguably more powerful ultimate. What Koth does is threaten to end the game fast. Even weaker as is, very few decks can handle Koth's ultimate, which can happen as fast as turn 5. In the meantime, he starts pressuring immediately with damage.
In the end, Skred is a metagame deck. In a meta filled with creature-light control, small-creature aggro, creature-based combo, or mid-range three-color (like Jund and Abzan), it does quite well. In a meta filled with unfair decks that cheat out far-too-big creatures (GDS, Hollow One, Breach-combo), spell-based combo (Storm), it's not as good. Modifications can help the deck beat some opponents versus others, but it is always going to be highly dependent on the metagame.
I like the forth Relic for the late game draw it represents since I don't care about the graveyard. That said, I haven't figured out a good build ducking it to three, but I will look into it.
For both the Relics and Stoneless deck: My biggest problem has always been mana flood, almost never screw. My decks seem to filter themselves by mana the moment I touch them, with the lands going to the top and any action somewhere at the bottom. Games with 10+ lands on the field are more common than I'd like. Similarly drawing 6 lands in a row, Scrying 2 to the bottom with a Jet, Sheetings 2 twice for 2 lands, and then drawing a land for the turn has happened more than I like. I know it's variance playing a joke on me but it is still frustrating to play with.
As for my meta, last time I played it was a wide variety: Jund, GDS, Tron, Lantern, Fish (tropical and normal), Humans, D&T, UW Control, Esper Jank, Esper Control, Mono-W Goats, Burn, CoCo Value, CoCo Druid Combo, Affinity, Mill, Storm and Ponza. It's a good spread so it helped me learn a lot.
I do think I will go back to the Jets + Stones build but tinker with the flex slots adding Abrade, Suns, and Slags to see what works better in my meta. I'll agree the Burn version stayed a little too far from the Control nature of the original deck.
In a meta filled with unfair decks that cheat out far-too-big creatures (GDS, Hollow One, Breach-combo), spell-based combo (Storm), it's not as good.
I think the deck is overall very solid, and you will always see things like fish, jund, junk, and creature based decks. Through the Breach is actually the reason I initially decided to add Ensnaring Bridge to the sideboard, and it has been relevant in that matchup, and has come up big in others. I think while Skred as is at its core is a good deck and seems to put up a fight against the majority of decks, even the unfair ones.
But I don't disagree with what you said. That's why I am leaning on possibly cutting my two Chandra, Pyromaster for a single main deck Bridge and hazoret the fervent. I think Skred could easily switch gears when needed to become a prison deck, winning on the back of Koth/Chandra sitting behind Blood Moon and Bridge. And as I mentioned in my report, what I really like about the deck is that I feel like I always have an out to play to, regardless of the situation.
I know it's variance playing a joke on me but it is still frustrating to play with.
Been there bud. All or nothing for me. It was actually a running joke at my LGS at one point. Though, I prefer floods over not drawing lands. I'll always opt for more land than not.
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Standard: N/A
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
I like the idea of magma jet but I can't get away from all the things mindstone can do it draws cards exclerates our mana and in a pinch can be sacked to pnkn for the last two points to burn someone out or kill their last flying blocker to make way for a storm breath. I get that magma jet is is a solid card but mindstone can be extra draw against lantern and can help keep your had full against 8rack. I'm not saying that magma jet is bad but mindstone works so well at helping to drop early threats and draws us a card in the late game. I am always happy to see a mindstone in my opener or most any time. Also I like the 27 mana sources it defiantly helped me pay the monstrous on stormy and have mana to board wipe then recast an eternal scourge which by the way every opponent I have done this to sighs
The mana acceleration does not do enough. The difference between turn 3 Koth and turn 4 Koth is next to nothing right now. Paying three mana to draw a card just isn't where we want to be, especially when the format is always getting faster. We need to stop our opponent from killing our threats, and trying to get underneath them doesn't work. Mind Stone has its uses, but in terms of finding what we need it might as well not even draw cards. Any experienced Lantern player is going to play around us being able to draw a card with it. They might even Pithing Needle to prevent it. I'd rather have Magma Jet and be able to bluff/burn my opponent than a do-nothing mana rock that will have a marginal impact on the game
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
I'm going to Atlanta april 27-29th for SCG Team Constructed Event, and i was really thinking of bringing Skred...i Originally have been working on BR Hollow One, But the more i'm looking at the meta and especially team events are a little different, i think Skred is a Great Under the Radar Deck.
My current Decklist is looking like This. Changes i made are instead of Eternal Scourge, i wanted to run Squee, The Immortal instead. I do give up one Power, and he's not colorless, but casting from grave or exile, is way better then just exile. Also Using the New Damping Sphere as my sideboard tech against combo, storm, ad nauseum, even elves if i can drop it fast enough. Kozileks Return and Ratchet bomb are my outs to Pro Red Creatures.
I am still unsure about whether to run mind stones or Swamp them for magma jet
Alternatively, it may be better to flip Abrade and Skred, and then shove Skred into opened SB slots. This weakens some matchups like Eldrazi-Tron, but strengthens others like Lantern Prison, Affinity, and Big-Tron.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
(this is a copy+paste of what I posted to reddit). I meant to get this report written up a few days ago but I’ve been pretty busy. I attended a 65 player modern tournament on April 7th and did fairly well with Skred. I apologize for the lack of details (like sideboarding notes, etc,) as I’ve never written a report like this before and was mainly there to have a good time, which I definitely succeeded in. I’ve been on Skred as my primary modern deck since October 2016 and I realize it seems a little weaker in this meta than it has been, but it surprised me with how well it held up at the event.
Decklist:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/skred-red-f2f-open/
Matches
KCI (Loss 0-2) – 0-1 Record
Started the day off with a loss. Not too familiar with the matchup and I had held up a relic game 1 thinking he needed to cast a sorcery to recur the graveyard and go off. Turns out it was a build that uses the mana to hardcast Emrakul, which happened both games. There was probably a lot of ways I could’ve handled the matchup better but my opponent was able to go off both games.
U/W Control (Win 2-0) – 1-1 Record
I’ve always found UW/x control decks to be pretty favorable due to the must answer nature of Skred’s threats and how poorly the removal lines up. Game 1 was pretty straightforward with me being on the front foot the whole time. A stormbreath and thopters from P&K did the majority of the work, and 3 bolts to the face cleaned things up once I had baited Cryptic mana out. Game 2 was pretty similar – I think the game was won by a monstrous Stormbreath.
Ponza (Win 2-1) – 2-1 Record
Another matchup that I’ve generally found to be favorable. He won the first match with some land destruction and me being unable to get back to 4 mana. Don’t remember the exactly details of games 2 and 3 but some molten rains directed at enchanted forests and removal for all elves did some work. The destroyed lands kept his mana in check and a Hazoret cleaned up the third game. Dealing with the combo of Nissa, P&K and BBE from my opponent was a bit of a tough value grind but in the end I managed to break through the stalls.
R/G Eldrazi (Win 2-0) – 3-1 Record
Wasn’t sure exactly what I was up against the first 2 turns of game 1 but I bolted the bird and the Hierarch that came out. I top decked a Blood Moon for turn 3 right before he got an Eldrazi Temple down and mana screwed him out of the game.
Game 2 turned into a topdeck war where I eventually got another Blood Moon down and Molten Rained his basic forest to keep him off Natural State. He ended up with 3 Matter Reshapers on the field before the moon hit so it was a tricky game of navigating that race without having to block too early. Eternal Scourge held off the attack for a bit and I finally blocked one Reshaper and Bolted the other one before turning the corner and finishing the game off.
Burn (Win 2-0) – 4-1 Record
The burn matchup is always a stressful one as it’s always a tossup a to whether or not the cards line up properly. Game 1 definitely played out how I wanted it to as I spent the first 3 turns removing his creatures (2 Swiftspears and an Eidolon). I got a blood moon down after killing Eidolon and it stranded some white spells in hand. From there, I closed out the game with both Eternal Scourges.
Game 2 went well with a good amount of removal, both Scourges out again, and a Dragons Claw that I drew into. I got on the beatdown pretty quickly so my opponent ended up having to direct burn spells at my Eternal Scourges. I think I finished the game at 18 life after the Claw Triggers gained about 7 or so.
Hollow One (Win 2-1) – 5-1 Record
This match was against a regular at our LGS and was friendly but also the best game of Magic I had all day. Game 1 I had a hard time catching up and eventually got run down by recursion without a relic available. Game 2 I found the disruption I needed and eventually closed out the game.
Game 3 was one of the best games I’ve played and had a lot of back and forth. I had access to 2 relics (both were eventually popped at the right times) but was choked on 3 mana (2 mountains and 1 stone) with a grip of 5 of my threats in hand. I was stuck doing nothing for a few turns but with the relics available before I finally hit the 4th land drop and the floodgates were open. From there, it was a matter of resource management to get my threats on board as quickly as possible through Koth and Chandra ramping, while preserving my life total through chump blocks and eventually answer most threats through bolts, Skreds and sweepers (including 2 for 3s to finish off Hollow Ones and Anglers). I stabilized at 1 life while chumping a Bloodghast and fading bolt off the top until I closed out the game with a Stormbreath and friends.
Mono Green Tron (ID) – 5-1-1 Record
Drew this round to secure top 8 and grab some food between rounds. Turns out my opponent was on some kind of G/x Tron. Glad I didn’t have to face that!
Bogles (Loss 1-2)
My opponent and I both knew our decks going into this match so we had an idea of how this was going to play out but I still had fun knowing it was probably a 90-10 matchup in his favor.
Game 1 was actually pretty close. Raced him with T3 P&K, and T4 and T5 Stormbreath. He was at 14 the last turn of the game and I had 13 damage + 1 bolt in hand (2 Stormbreaths, one monstrous and 2 thopters swinging in) but turn 0 Leyline made the bolt useless.
Game 2 went about as well as it could’ve. A turn 2 Ratchet Bomb managed to take out a totem armor and then a K-Return finished off 3 of his creatures at once. He didn’t draw many auras after that and I closed the game out quickly.
Game 3 was a loss with relevant cards in hand, but being on the draw made my 3 mana sweepers too slow. Tried to race but a Daybreak Coronet caused him to win the game and finish at 30+ life.
Thoughts/Card choices:
Stormbreath Dragon:
I had considered cutting 1 or 2 in place of Glorybringers and/or a Sarkhan for cuteness/removal factor but, as someone else on Reddit put it, “I’ve never been let down by Stormbreath Dragon.” I think the 3 of is pretty solid, although a singleton Glorybringer could be a reasonable meta call. Also, if you’re ever stuck at 4 mana with a Stormbreath and a P&K in hand, casting mom and pop will immediately result in a path directed at them so you can untap with 5 mana (happened 4 times that I can remember over the course of the tournament).
Eternal Scourge:
I have done a lot thinking about this card’s slot, as I feel other Skred players likely have, too. Sometimes it just feels bad but at the same time, I can’t seem to cut it. I used to run Reckoner when I first started playing the deck and I prefer what it does (walls small dudes, blocks eldrazi successfully and allows you to Skred the face) but I do acknowledge it will often eat their removal spell they’ve been holding and provide a tempo disadvantage. The week leading up to the tournament, I was scrutinizing this slot and was considering running Reckoner or Rabblemaster in its place but in the end I feel it was the right call to play Scourge. One day, something will come to take its place but for now I’ll be keeping them in the MD.
Sideboard:
I’m very happy with the sideboard. K-Return deals with anything pro-red in the format and provides an extra set of sweepers in matchups where that’s needed. I feel the 4 claws are necessary and I never leave home without them. Always seems to be at least 1 burn match anytime I play, even if they’re kinda bad in other matchups. I wish I had 4 Molten Rain when needed but 3 felt like a good number.
Conclusion:
I just can’t stop playing this deck! I feel the meta hasn’t been too friendly to Skred lately (maybe the rason for the lack of 5-0 finishes on MODO) but it still has legs.
Mind Stone is very strong and I wouldn't want to sleeve this deck without it. We don't have much to play on two and I don't think Magma Jet is worth dropping Mind Stone from the deck for. I'd much rather find room in the maindeck for both. I was playing 2x Dismember MB last summer due to GDS and I think you could use Magma Jet to kill Meddling Mage/Kitesail Freebooter/Bob/Bloodbraid/Flameblade Adept game 1s in a similar fashion, but I don't get why you'd need to cut Mind Stone to do so. T3 Chandra and especially T3 Koth are just such powerful plays I feel like this deck is doing itself a disservice by not utilizing it. I think a Mind Stone-less version would want SSGs.
What sweepers are you using?
This is the reason why I opt to play 4 Chandra ToD instead of Koth, because she is a better control walker than Koth. Her +1 add RR ability is not to be underestimated. When I first played Skred I was quite surprised at how much it played a control game and I find the draw you get from the Chandras has more overall value than the power Koth offers.
I play reanimator in legacy, and I don't run the petals. I see now that this is the same type of thing when it comes to Koth/Chandra. Most players like the raw power of cards. I tend to lean towards consistency. The power of running petals in reanimator can give you some insane turn 1 plays. A petal-less version will not have that raw power, but is overall more consistent by giving you more room for draw spells, discard, removal, etc. For Skred, nothing beats an unanswered T3 Koth on an empty board. It's just pure power. It's power Chandra can't remotely touch on the same empty board on T3. However, her value at every stage of the game is high, while never insane. Koth has insane highs and rock bottom lows. I've always leaned towards consistency over unstable power. I guess that's why I eventually dropped Koth and now run 6 Chandras.
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
2 anger of the gods
2 sweltering suns
2 pyroclasm
4 lightning bolt
1 pyrite spell bomb
It has worked well especially with mindstone having the extra mana to drop an anger then bolt a wurmcoil or drop double sweepers to take care of eldrazi is nice with the relics goyf isn't an issue and the pyroclasm are nice on turn 2 vs elves, affinity , any of the company decks, goblins, merfolk.against other contol decks they kind of suck but still can kill snapcasters or clique and suns can cycle into somthing else thays why i play the 2-2-2 split
Here is the list
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Eternal Scourge
1 Glorybringer
4 Skred
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrade
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Mind Stone
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scrying Sheets
21 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Shatterstorm
ROUND 1 – JUND
Game 1 – The day started out a little rough. I kept a two land two stone hand, and after playing the second one on turn 3, he Maelstrom Plused them and left me on 3 lands for the rest of the game with two skreds in hand facing down a 6/7 Goyf who ultimately did 17 damage.
Game 2 – Possibly my best game of the tournament. He played Blood Braid Elf into a Liliana, The Last Hope who he used to -2 which found him a Dark Confidant on the mill. While I had some spot removal, I decided to ignore BBE, and killed all of his more dangerous threats as they hit the board. Two turns after his BFF, he played Liliana of the Veil and made us discard. On an empty board on my side, I was facing two Lilianas at 4 loyalty each and a BBE. I drew a Stormbreath Dragon who took out Veil, and then kept Last Hope at bay until I monstrous’ed to finish her off and win the game in two swings. BBE ended up doing 15 damage, but that is all he did as we both drew a little heavy on lands.
Game 3 – I held off a 2 Goyf/Bob board early as I found 4 Chandras (2 of each) and all three PnKN who ended up finishing the game by sac’ing two dudes and then bolt.
1-0
ROUND 2 – BURN
Game 1 – My opponent drew all gas and won with only 2 lands in play. I Had no chance. I felt I was close to stabilizing, but he drew too many 3 damage spells.
Game 2 – I was proud of the deck on this one, as it shows its resiliency. I ended up having to mulligan to 4 cards. My hand was 2 lands, Chandra ToD and Anger. He played spell after spell, with his first creature being Eidelon. I played Chandra to take him out. I tried to dig for one of my Dragon’s claws (which the first one was 24 cards away once the game was over), but all I found were PnKN, and he just kept top decking spells instead of creatures. In the end, he was out of gas with no cards in hand, he was at 11 and I had a Chandra, with PnKN and 4 Thopters on the board. Had he run into just a couple more creatures or lands, the mull to 4 could have had a chance.
1-1
ROUND 3 – ELVES
Game 1 – I drew a ton of spot removal to keep his board at bay and won with a Stormbreath Dragon.
Game 2 – Kept a 2 land, 3 Anger hand. Found both Scourges and proceeded to win on the 2x 3/3 beatdown. Flooded out a little and finished with 9 lands. 3 Angers is good against Elves
2-1
ROUND 4 – UW SPIRITS
Game 1 – There was a funny interaction on this one. He has two non-basics and a Windsept Heath. I play Blood Moon. He cracks his fetch and drops an Island. I point out that he can’t do that, he apologizes for his misplay and gets a Plains (not intentional, he was actually a really nice guy). He’s now sad that he doesn’t have his blue source. I pass the turn, and he proceeds to top deck an Island. He had a nice board that I swept away with Anger and then followed up with the Stormbreath beatdown as he looked helplessly at his path.
Game 2 – Anger of the Gods was once again an all-star. Drew into two of them and had Chandra, ToD do the majority of the heavy lifting.
3-1
ROUND 5 – STORM
Game 1 – I drew into one relic to made the game go long, but he went off eventually. Had him at 8
Game 2 – Kept a sketchy hand, but I had two relics, but of course he found is Empty the Warrens and made 14 goblins on t3, and I was stuck on 2 lands. I really hate storm.
3-2
ROUND 6 – PONZA
Game 1 – I played first and he had a slow start, so my Blood Moon turn three turned out to be a dud play as he played Magus of the Moon on his turn. He never found a relevant threat, so Chandra ToD and PnKN won the game easily.
Game 2 – This was another good showing of the deck’s resiliency. I had a bolt, so was sad when he played sprawl on turn 1. On his T2 he stone rain’ed my land, and then Mwonvuli Acid-Moss’ed my second land on his T3. On his turn 4 he BBE into Stone Rain. I took beats from BBE for a few turns, but I was able to stick two lands, play a mind stone and then dropped an Ensnaring Bridge. I was at 10. His elf hit me one more time to put me to 9. Behind the bridge I stabilized, playing out all of my threats. I even got to 7 mana to monstrous Stormbreath (for one damage on his draw step) while 5 mountains resided in my graveyard. The final play was PnKN eating the bridge and Stormbreath finishing the game.
4-2
ROUND 7 – BOGGLES
Game 1 – We both mull’ed to 6, and he kept a 2 leyline hand. He drew into two lands which quickly became mountains and he was unable to play spells as Stormbreath once again cleaned things up.
Game 2 - He quickly got three boggles on the board, and his big one with two rancors were kept at bay with an Ensnaring bridge. I had PnKN and he thought about blocking with his 5/1 but didn’t. He top decked Fate Seal to blow up the bridge and win.
Game 3 – He hit me once on turn 2 for 5 before I laid down the bridge and built up a board. I eventually found the second bridge and played that too. His boys were getting really big. With Chandra Pyromaster, I was digging for my Ratchet Bomb as 90% of his board was 1 CMC. In the end with the help of a few Chandra pings and PnKN eating some thopters and the bridges on the last turn, I got him to zero. He was super sour and a poor sport about losing. It made winning against boggles that much sweeter.
5-2
At the end of the day, I finished 13th out of 94, missing top8 by a point. Still was in the prizes so it was a good day.
Thoughts:
-Stormbreath is an all-star. Never am I sad to draw him or cast him. I only drew Glorybringer once or twice during the day, so still not sure about him. I don’t think a 2/1 spill with Stormbreath is wrong.
-PnKN is also an all-star. I decided not to run my 1-of Walking Balista, deciding to go with three PnKNs instead. I do not regret the decision.
-Anger of the Gods. While the versatility to cycle Sweltering Suns is nice, I don't think it's as valuable as the exile clause on Anger. When my opponent follows the sweep with a Scavenging Ooze without creatures to make him grow, allowing me to bolt it was relevant. That and with dredge/hollow one/etc decks around, it's all value. Never once did I look at my Anger and thought "I wish I could cycle this".
-Chandra, Pyromaster. I’m not sure about her. She was unimpressive on the day and I ended up siding her out on a few matchups. Not sure what to replace her with as she did do some work in some games. I think she’s very matchup dependant.
-Bridge in the side board is great. Every time I decide to bring it in, it is relevant. I’ve had them in my board since the start and I would never take them out now, especially after that Boggles win.
-Two things I love about the deck. 1) Not taking damage from your lands. 2) Not having to search/shuffle your library every turn.
-I hate storm. It’s a stupid deck, and I must face it at least once every tournament. </tiny rant>
-I was happy with my list overall. Abrades did a bit of work, and I would keep them as a 2-of as there were a few Hollow One decks running around. I loved that I felt like I always had an out to play to. As for the discussion about moving away from the Stones. Not a chance for me. They were great for me all day. I did not mind running 27 mana sources. Again, this is a control deck that doesn’t mind getting to 7 mana to monstrous Stormbreath or to activate PnKN multiple times a turn.
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
- I tried out Chandra Pyromaster the other day, and was also unimpressed.
- Bridge in the board seems cool in general; I imagine it'd be even better if you were on Koth (his ultimate is another way to win the game under a Bridge).
- Abrade seems great here.
- I think Storm is a matchup that will suffer because you've cut Koth. Our removal, Relics, and Dragon's Claws do a surprising amount of disruption, but you still need to close the game. Sideboard Rabblemasters help, but Koth is your fastest maindeck finisher.
I agree with the storm matchup. I was actually unimpressed with Rabblemasters out of the side yesterday as well, not sure I want to keep them. Maybe I'll either move Koth in there, or have Koth replace Pyromasters as planeswalker #5 and #6 in the main. I actually tried Scab-Clan Berserker on modo and may actually move to that route instead of the goblin for the next tournament.
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
I liked to play a more Burn-ie Skred build. So I cycled in Forked Bolts, Magma Jets, Slagstorms, and Exquisite Firecrafts into the deck to see how they would work. I loved the utility of all these cards and I felt they helped grind out my opponent, but being out of the game for a bit I'm not sure how they fair anymore in current meta since the unbannings. So, if you willing to have the perspective of a lapsed Skredder, these are my experiences with some of the cards listed.
Magma Jet - As discussed it simply smoothing draws is powerful. In a lower CMC more burn heavy deck like my build, it helps tremendously. The added bonus of filtering the top deck for ToD's +1, Scrying Sheets, or (in a wild experiment) Thunderous Wrath* is super powerful and feels great. Taking out the Mind Stones feels bad when you are used to turn 3 Koth/Chandra/PnK, but being able to keep the board clean and smooth your draws felt nicer IMO. That said if you get to games where you have 15+ mana and you and your opponent are in the land of Grin, Mind Stone's pure card draw might be better.
*Note: Don't use TW. It is explosive but is just a bit too cute for my liking.
Exquisite Firecraft - This was a sideboard card that actually pulled a lot of work. I slotted it in instead of Ricochet Trap as my LGS apparently has never heard of that card and never has it in stock. Our 3-drop slot is focused on Sweepers, so it is an easy SB against low count creatures decks. The spell mastery has never really been a problem when I ran it, even with disruption (including our Relic) we can get 2 Instants or Sorceries in the bin fairly quickly. That said, I don't think this is ever mainboard material. If we wanted a dual purpose Removal/Damage Spell I've found Slagstorm to be better MD.
Slag Storm - Yeah, this is basically a Sweltering Suns that bolts instead of draws. I'm a player who is fine killing themselves a bit in order to beat the opponent. I prefer the damage aspect to the card draw of Sweltering Suns, but I will admit I've never played with Sweltering Suns. I think with the Magma Jet scry smoothing draws Slagstorm might be more flexible than Sweltering Suns. The self-damage from the bolt mode of Slagstorm is significant though, and it is really bad in fast aggro match-ups or late game when you and your opponent are low. Though you could be the monster who like the end matches with Double KO draws in which case this is your card.
Forked Bolt - This card is really strange. It is mostly another turn 1 play to kill dorks or to kill X/1's mid-game. The fact we have a lot of Sweepers does make this more of a contentious card. But I enjoyed the utility of it, and with the change to Planeswalker damage, it might have a good spot in certain builds of the deck.
Of note: I've loved Hazorret (Dog-Mom) in this deck. A lot of the card I mention being bad in the late she just turns into damage. I only run 1, so there is risk there, but she has yet to fail me. As mentioned by someone else she is like inverse Stormbreath. She beats face, draws removal, and kills if the opponent can't deal with her.
Cards I haven't tried, but have caught my eye but I'm going to test out:
Sweltering Suns - I've read about it here, and it was on my buy-list before I fell out of playing.
Abrade - More redundancy, more utility, more of what I like in my cards. 3 Damage or kill an Artifact. Funny enough, Abrade might be good in the mirror. Blowing up a Mindstone to cripple a traditional Skred decks reliance on turn 4 threats might it silly enough to work.
Searing Blood - Just another card I saw appearing in response to the rise of humans. Another 2 CMC card, it doesn't feel it will be as good as either magma jet or forked bolt, but I've had people swear up and down about it helping against 5c Humans.
Faithless Looting & Bedlam Reveler - I put these together because having one or the other doesn't feel correct. Faithless ideally gets rid of those dead cards I mentioned earlier. However, I feel FL doesn't do enough to overcome its card disadvantage. Bedlam is interesting as it dies to removal non-bolt/push but continues to draw cards. Both these cards are hurt by blowing up our Relic, but at the same time, this is a powerful engine if you can get it off. I want to try this eventually, adding a second Hazoret, and dropping down the curve a bit (less Mom and Dads and maybe only 1 Stormbreath) to see how it plays.
Other Red "HateBears" - This includes Direfleet Daredevil, Harsh Mentor, and Scab-Clan Berserker. Direfleet seems sweet, but too situational, eating a card from an opponents graveyard and casting it sounds powerful, but slows down my preferred plan of burn and churn. Harsh Mentor has the same problems, its a removal magnet that dies to all removal after maybe 1-2 triggers. I want my creatures to dodge some form of removal or have an immediate effect when I play them. Scab-Clan is a pet card of mine. It has the same issues as DD and HM, but the haste makes me want it to be good. There might be a build out there that goes more creature heavy with these three (or even Rampaging Ferocidon) instead of burn cards but that changes the deck to a more Skred & Taxes deck. Or Snow Tax if you will.
Squee - Newest Dominariat Card I saw. His stat line (2/1) leads me to feel he is weaker than Eternal Scourge (3/3); however I will test his out as he is stick has heck, isn't really taxing on our mana-base and if he gets Path'ed he nets a card, unlike Scourge who just dies to the target.
EDITED IN: Flamewake Phoenix - Fate Reforge might be my favorite set ever, lots of weird cards in it that I want to be good. Flamewake is one of those cards. We have a number of ways to recur it in this deck: Hazoret, Stormbreath, and +1 Koth, it's a hasty flyer, it sounds great, but I'm unsure of how it interacts with Relic. Squee and Eternal Scourge laugh at exile effect. Flamewake dies to a stiff breeze, but it keeps coming back, but usually when we are in the lead. It's interaction with Koth though does help give him stabilizing power, but even then it feels risky. Having never played a non-Scourge build I'm not sure much we care about creatures eating removal. Seems good with a Faithless Looting build.
Again, these are just some observations of mine to continue the discussion of Magma Jet and Abrade. Some of the cards mentioned have been used in the past Skred builds and might want to be looked at again depending on your builds. Specifically, a Faithless, Hazoret, Bedlam, Flamewake Phoenix build might be interested in the old Demigod of Revenge deck archetype. No idea if its good, but feels like a starting point.
EDIT:
Original Deck - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/2902-skred
Burn Skred - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/2903-hot-skred
Added in bit about Flamewake Phoenix.
Hey man, welcome back to magic. Always nice to hear someone working themselves out of a rough life patch.
One thing to remember when looking at Skred is that it's a control deck. Running Magma Jets instead of Mind Stone, you're cutting away the control player's main weapon: Mana. As I posted above, I lost to burn that drew two lands during the game. This deck can't do that. In your Mind Stone-less list, you are running 10 4-drops and 2 5-drops with 22 lands, 4 scry-2 cards and 6 planeswalkers that allow you to ramp which are all 4-drops and 4 relics to cycle. And the walkers, you would rather not rely on them for their mana abilities.
The last thing I want is to be stuck on 3 mana with this deck. The tournament I just played, I didn't once get mana screwed because of the deck. I got stuck in one game because two stones got Maelstrom Pulsed and I couldn't find a third land (had a third stone to get me to 3 lands). I've played a variety of control decks in my day, and the most important thing when piloting a control deck is to have access to a lot of mana. And the beauty of the stones instead of running 27 lands is that it helps ramp and mitigates the flooding as you can replace them later. They are a beautiful card, and are worth far more than a 2-damage-scry-2.
As for the fork bolt, I would never include it in my 75. We don't need 10 1-cmc burn spells. Abrade is much better here with it's choice of shatter or 3 damage to creature. If you don't want Abrade, find a 2-drop that better suits you. (Keep stones and run two magma jets... I had that on modo for a bit and it was okay)
A question about the relics. I love any deck that can run these puppies main deck, but is 4 the right number? I was happy with my 3 main, but I also run two cages in the side.
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
One thing I do want to point out though is that Koth should not be compared to Chandra ToD directly. In a longer game, Chandra will generally be better as she can remove creatures, generate card advantage, and has an arguably more powerful ultimate. What Koth does is threaten to end the game fast. Even weaker as is, very few decks can handle Koth's ultimate, which can happen as fast as turn 5. In the meantime, he starts pressuring immediately with damage.
In the end, Skred is a metagame deck. In a meta filled with creature-light control, small-creature aggro, creature-based combo, or mid-range three-color (like Jund and Abzan), it does quite well. In a meta filled with unfair decks that cheat out far-too-big creatures (GDS, Hollow One, Breach-combo), spell-based combo (Storm), it's not as good. Modifications can help the deck beat some opponents versus others, but it is always going to be highly dependent on the metagame.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
For both the Relics and Stoneless deck: My biggest problem has always been mana flood, almost never screw. My decks seem to filter themselves by mana the moment I touch them, with the lands going to the top and any action somewhere at the bottom. Games with 10+ lands on the field are more common than I'd like. Similarly drawing 6 lands in a row, Scrying 2 to the bottom with a Jet, Sheetings 2 twice for 2 lands, and then drawing a land for the turn has happened more than I like. I know it's variance playing a joke on me but it is still frustrating to play with.
As for my meta, last time I played it was a wide variety: Jund, GDS, Tron, Lantern, Fish (tropical and normal), Humans, D&T, UW Control, Esper Jank, Esper Control, Mono-W Goats, Burn, CoCo Value, CoCo Druid Combo, Affinity, Mill, Storm and Ponza. It's a good spread so it helped me learn a lot.
I do think I will go back to the Jets + Stones build but tinker with the flex slots adding Abrade, Suns, and Slags to see what works better in my meta. I'll agree the Burn version stayed a little too far from the Control nature of the original deck.
I think the deck is overall very solid, and you will always see things like fish, jund, junk, and creature based decks. Through the Breach is actually the reason I initially decided to add Ensnaring Bridge to the sideboard, and it has been relevant in that matchup, and has come up big in others. I think while Skred as is at its core is a good deck and seems to put up a fight against the majority of decks, even the unfair ones.
But I don't disagree with what you said. That's why I am leaning on possibly cutting my two Chandra, Pyromaster for a single main deck Bridge and hazoret the fervent. I think Skred could easily switch gears when needed to become a prison deck, winning on the back of Koth/Chandra sitting behind Blood Moon and Bridge. And as I mentioned in my report, what I really like about the deck is that I feel like I always have an out to play to, regardless of the situation.
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
Been there bud. All or nothing for me. It was actually a running joke at my LGS at one point. Though, I prefer floods over not drawing lands. I'll always opt for more land than not.
Modern: RG Ponza / Some Number of Racks / Skred / Dredgevine
Legacy: UB Reanimator / LEDless Dredge
The mana acceleration does not do enough. The difference between turn 3 Koth and turn 4 Koth is next to nothing right now. Paying three mana to draw a card just isn't where we want to be, especially when the format is always getting faster. We need to stop our opponent from killing our threats, and trying to get underneath them doesn't work. Mind Stone has its uses, but in terms of finding what we need it might as well not even draw cards. Any experienced Lantern player is going to play around us being able to draw a card with it. They might even Pithing Needle to prevent it. I'd rather have Magma Jet and be able to bluff/burn my opponent than a do-nothing mana rock that will have a marginal impact on the game
My current Decklist is looking like This. Changes i made are instead of Eternal Scourge, i wanted to run Squee, The Immortal instead. I do give up one Power, and he's not colorless, but casting from grave or exile, is way better then just exile. Also Using the New Damping Sphere as my sideboard tech against combo, storm, ad nauseum, even elves if i can drop it fast enough. Kozileks Return and Ratchet bomb are my outs to Pro Red Creatures.
I am still unsure about whether to run mind stones or Swamp them for magma jet
1 Damping Sphere
4 Mind Stone
3 Relic of Progenitus
Creature (8)
1 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Squee, the Immortal
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Enchantment (3)
3 Blood Moon
Instant (10)
2 Abrade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Skred
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Koth of the Hammer
Sorcery (4)
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Sweltering Suns
Land (22)
1 Mouth of Ronom
2 Scrying Sheets
19 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Damping Sphere
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Pyroclasm
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Shattering Spree