I think people are forgetting that the whole point of a control deck is to control the board. This means that all you would need to do is control the board until you have 10 mana sources or ramp to cast Omniscience.
If being able to control the board until you can accomplish a goal like this is a problem, then you are probably not building a control deck.
So, is Cruel Control not a control deck in itself because people dont want to control the board until they can get a 10 mana cost card out?
Sooooo (he says trying to pull the thread back on topic) we've had more spoilers and I'm mildly interested in Censor.
It's both a bad Force Spike and a cantrip, and I'm winding if that is good enough. I'm inclined towards having access to 8 cantrips in the deck and at the moment that is Serum Visions and Think Twice as I don't have Ancestral Visions. I'm considering putting Censor in one of those slots. It would act as a cantrip which is occasionally a counter rather than a counter that is occasionally a cantrip. Thoughts?
3 things here, and I need everyone to do the following:
1. You are not the mod, please reframe from bashing each other. Just report. I look at all reports, if there is a rule break, I will do something about it. Be it spam or flaming.
2. This is COMPETITIVE Cruel Control, meaning its for talking about the current existing data driven successful Cruel control. Wild variations in this archetype is allowed to be brought up, as well as dismissed, unless there is a large chunk of data across multiple players verifying said claim. Posting something that isn't COMPETITIVE Cruel Control that isnt data driven derails the thread, and is thus Spam.
3. Flaming, even if you dont like a user, is not allowed. Please use the report button.
The previous decklist posted is at least 90% of the meta and is majority cards suggested in this primer, so I would appreciate that people would recognize that is within the rules for discussion in this thread and won't unnecessarily overreact (upwards to flaming the person posting) because there is a discussion prompted about new cards coming out in the format and you do not feel like it is something you could netdeck for a tournament in any entirety. Some people are actually out testing new varieties themselves and post their lists looking for advice or discussion about cards and are not just here to copy someone else's deck without doing any work of their own.
Thank you to those people who suggested Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Deceiver Exarch. I playtested the infinite token production and it does seem to fit in well with the the 90% plus of the meta decklist I posted along with Jhoira of the Ghitu and Omniscience. That does appear to work better.
I hope this new set actually comes out with good cards for modern that are not just strictly jank.
Come on guys, it is not even close to Halloween and Lantern showed up. 2spooky4me.
Let's try to keep our conversations focused and polite.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Wizards spoiled sorcery speed planeswalkers removal once again. I don't have faith in them when it comes to spells.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Everything else spoiled so far may be jank or overcosted. The first two removal cards might be useful.
I would suggest that you look on already existing choices when you are checking out spoilers.
We already have thoughtseize and barely sees play in sideboard. Why would we want Lay Bare the Heart over it? Never is a sorcery speed removal for three mana and we are a draw-go control deck. For sorcery speed we have the much better 2 mana option of Dreadbore and instant speed there is Hero's downfall.
As for Cryptic Serpent, it is not better than Tasigur, not better than Gurmag Angler, and it is even worse than Bedlam Reveler, and we don't even play that card.
As such, none of the spoiled cards so far is interesting to us in any way.
Everything else spoiled so far may be jank or overcosted. The first two removal cards might be useful.
I would suggest that you look on already existing choices when you are checking out spoilers.
We already have thoughtseize and barely sees play in sideboard. Why would we want Lay Bare the Heart over it? Never is a sorcery speed removal for three mana and we are a draw-go control deck. For sorcery speed we have the much better 2 mana option of Dreadbore and instant speed there is Hero's downfall.
As for Cryptic Serpent, it is not better than Tasigur, not better than Gurmag Angler, and it is even worse than Bedlam Reveler, and we don't even play that card.
As such, none of the spoiled cards so far is interesting to us in any way.
Remember that the moderators and admins are having issues with this thread on account of people framing their posts as though they are directing personal messages in a condescending manner and as though something completely harmless is a personal affront to them.
In either event, yes ... the otherwise best cards they have spoiled so far may not pass the power creep test when compared to modern.
Also, I agree Censor is a bad counterspell, what I'm really interested in is whether it is a tolerable cantrip with an alternative mode? I'm going to guess no, but will probably try it out.
Also, I agree Censor is a bad counterspell, what I'm really interested in is whether it is a tolerable cantrip with an alternative mode? I'm going to guess no, but will probably try it out.
I really, really want my cantrips to have some sort of filtering. There is a reason why Serum Visions is the only one we play, apposed to stuff like sleight of hand. I would rather play sleight of hand than censor. I believe that the few times the force spike would be relevant is worse than the selection slight of hand provides. I may be wrong, but it just seems like there are better options out there.
I don't like Cryptic Serpent at all. Torrential Gearhulk is much better in Cruel due to flash and its ability IMHO.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
After briefly looking at the newly spoiled list again, it appears that those cards may be favoring some sort of black/white and maybe blue splashed standard zombie token deck over modern Grixis. The new simic Nissa looks interesting, but not our colors.
Censor looks incredible. Definitely going to test this over Serum Visions.
I've been testing with it in standard, and it is great there but I am still very hesitant about it in modern. It doesn't have a big enough impact to warrant a slot in my deck. Still though, might be good enough. I would not recommending replacing Serum Visions though, instead maybe a mana leak or something. We really need the card selection and Censor doesn't fulfill that.
I think I'll probably test Censor over Think Twice, although it might not last.
Next up in cards that could be pretty good in standard but probably not modern... Sweltering Suns!
This is a good card, I'm just not 100% sure it's better than Anger of the Gods. In metas without Dredge or Abzan CoCo then this seems like it's pretty good, but when you're facing down recursive threats then Anger is obviously better...
And that combo appears to be what is left behind from the splinter twin decklist before it got banned.
Well, kikijiki is its own deck, but its a good combo nontheless.
If being able to control the board until you can accomplish a goal like this is a problem, then you are probably not building a control deck.
So, is Cruel Control not a control deck in itself because people dont want to control the board until they can get a 10 mana cost card out?
That's a rhetorical question.
It's both a bad Force Spike and a cantrip, and I'm winding if that is good enough. I'm inclined towards having access to 8 cantrips in the deck and at the moment that is Serum Visions and Think Twice as I don't have Ancestral Visions. I'm considering putting Censor in one of those slots. It would act as a cantrip which is occasionally a counter rather than a counter that is occasionally a cantrip. Thoughts?
1. You are not the mod, please reframe from bashing each other. Just report. I look at all reports, if there is a rule break, I will do something about it. Be it spam or flaming.
2. This is COMPETITIVE Cruel Control, meaning its for talking about the current existing data driven successful Cruel control. Wild variations in this archetype is allowed to be brought up, as well as dismissed, unless there is a large chunk of data across multiple players verifying said claim. Posting something that isn't COMPETITIVE Cruel Control that isnt data driven derails the thread, and is thus Spam.
3. Flaming, even if you dont like a user, is not allowed. Please use the report button.
Thank you to those people who suggested Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Deceiver Exarch. I playtested the infinite token production and it does seem to fit in well with the the 90% plus of the meta decklist I posted along with Jhoira of the Ghitu and Omniscience. That does appear to work better.
I hope this new set actually comes out with good cards for modern that are not just strictly jank.
Let's try to keep our conversations focused and polite.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
My thoughts exactly. At this point, I'm really hopping for a sick PLAYABLE Bolas card. Please have it be less than 8 mana...
Lay bare the heart
Never
Cryptic Serpent
Everything else spoiled so far may be jank or overcosted. The first two removal cards might be useful.
We already have thoughtseize and barely sees play in sideboard. Why would we want Lay Bare the Heart over it?
Never is a sorcery speed removal for three mana and we are a draw-go control deck. For sorcery speed we have the much better 2 mana option of Dreadbore and instant speed there is Hero's downfall.
As for Cryptic Serpent, it is not better than Tasigur, not better than Gurmag Angler, and it is even worse than Bedlam Reveler, and we don't even play that card.
As such, none of the spoiled cards so far is interesting to us in any way.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Remember that the moderators and admins are having issues with this thread on account of people framing their posts as though they are directing personal messages in a condescending manner and as though something completely harmless is a personal affront to them.
In either event, yes ... the otherwise best cards they have spoiled so far may not pass the power creep test when compared to modern.
Also, I agree Censor is a bad counterspell, what I'm really interested in is whether it is a tolerable cantrip with an alternative mode? I'm going to guess no, but will probably try it out.
I really, really want my cantrips to have some sort of filtering. There is a reason why Serum Visions is the only one we play, apposed to stuff like sleight of hand. I would rather play sleight of hand than censor. I believe that the few times the force spike would be relevant is worse than the selection slight of hand provides. I may be wrong, but it just seems like there are better options out there.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
I've been testing with it in standard, and it is great there but I am still very hesitant about it in modern. It doesn't have a big enough impact to warrant a slot in my deck. Still though, might be good enough. I would not recommending replacing Serum Visions though, instead maybe a mana leak or something. We really need the card selection and Censor doesn't fulfill that.
Next up in cards that could be pretty good in standard but probably not modern... Sweltering Suns!
This is a good card, I'm just not 100% sure it's better than Anger of the Gods. In metas without Dredge or Abzan CoCo then this seems like it's pretty good, but when you're facing down recursive threats then Anger is obviously better...