So as I continue to consider Torrential Gearhulk, I am looking into trying to cut down on the very few sorceries I play. I am considering my options when it comes to wraths, I am going to continue to keep my Languish (until I can get a Damnation), but I do want to look at Anger of the Gods.
Does anyone have any experience of playing with either Sulfurous Blast, or Volcanic Fallout, and how does everyone feel they compare to Anger of the Gods. I think they're probably just worse, but I thought I'd ask around.
I played volcanic fallout last week and it did me no good. It missed everything I wanted it to hit. Anger of the gods is the better card to have. The 3 damage hits a lot more and the exile is nice to have. Fallout is only okay to run if you have no means of getting any other wrath but other than that, at least run anger of the gods.
I am looking into trying to cut down on the very few sorceries I play. I am considering my options when it comes to wraths, I am going to continue to keep my Languish (until I can get a Damnation), but I do want to look at Anger of the Gods. Does anyone have any experience of playing with either Sulfurous Blast, or Volcanic Fallout, and how does everyone feel they compare to Anger of the Gods. I think they're probably just worse, but I thought I'd ask around.
The only reason (in my opinion) that people think that Anger of the Gods is a better card in the current meta has to do with other cards using the "Delve" mechanic or other Graveyard shenanigans or like what Scavenging Ooze or Tarmogoyf do. I guarantee you that if these cards no longer appeared in modern decks, Anger of the Gods would no longer be a dominant relevant form of removal past some other cards that do almost the exact same thing, just slightly different such as Volcanic Fallout or even Slagstorm.
My personal opinion is that people should also consider that a specific card might be better for their own deck (besides the current meta) based upon what their deck is doing, so it may take some experimentation to figure that out for yourself. Not everything is cut and dry about deck building (or copy/paste when talking about netdeckers).
So, I have been making more adjustments to my deck based upon some input you guys have been giving me and in order to get my deck more consistent against Zoo. I have done some play tests and this version seems promising here. What do you guys think?
I can't sit here and pretend to understand how your deck plays @Dlanze. It's very unique for me to see. In my opinion though barter in blood may be too slow? 4 mana for 2 sac is good but at sorcery speed I think another damnation would suffice.
Since I've seen the card I've always loved rise // fall. Even have a few copies myself that I used to run mb so I do enjoy seeing you running it and having successfully considering it's still in your 75. All in all I think the deck looks oddly unique but very playable and winnable.
I can't sit here and pretend to understand how your deck plays @Dlanze. It's very unique for me to see. In my opinion though barter in blood may be too slow? 4 mana for 2 sac is good but at sorcery speed I think another damnation would suffice.
Since I've seen the card I've always loved rise // fall. Even have a few copies myself that I used to run mb so I do enjoy seeing you running it and having successfully considering it's still in your 75. All in all I think the deck looks oddly unique but very playable and winnable.
Basically it goes like this: Between turns 1 and 4: Instants and Sorceries matter, Creatures don't matter except to chump block or for card advantage/tempo, mana-fixing or for answers.
Main playstyle is stall, sweep, chumpblock, combo and discard. The only relevant creatures are answers and finishers.
Ask yourself the questions "Do I have board control?" and "Do I have my combo pieces?"
-------If (YES) cast Gifts Ungiven for combo pieces (or a good enough mixture of yes/no to board control and combo pieces question) and primarily chose some combination of Archaeomancer, Cruel Ultimatum, Rise // Fall, Kolaghan's Command with occasionally choosing something else instead.
-------If (NO) you do not have board control, do not cast Gifts Ungiven for combo pieces and instead keep making your opponent run out of tempo with discard and removal.
Can not think of anything else to add. Barter in blood can be replaced with Far // Away which is faster being a split card, but costs 5 mana for both. Maybe 1 more Damnation would be ok, but I wouldn't go crazy with them. Too many in a combo deck with finishers might actually make you lose when you were ahead after the boardwipe and on the opponents nexts topdeck.
so I went to another event last night and got absolutely wrecked. My only round win came from a bye. Other than that I couldn't get anything going against tron, twin variant and something else that I can't seem to remember.
Round one I lost going 1-2. I win game one but games 2 and three he wins thanks to rest in peace. It completely shut me down because I had no answer for enchantments. I tried to bounce it with cryptic but unfortunately had no counters for the re-play so..unlucky.
Game 2 was a near mirror matchup. It was the twin variant. I lose game 1 to huntmaster of the fells and its flip. For whatever reason I got really unlucky and could not find a geth's verdict or even terminate. Game 2 I board in dispel for his countermagic but it was no use. He wins the counter wars and
Kills me with hexproof man land. GG 0-2.
Round 3 is my bye. I win.
Round 4 I go against a tron deck and cavern of souls stops me from my counter magic. Chalice of the void stops me from burn spells. Game 2 I side in sowing salts and slaughter games and don't see a single one until the game is over.
This week was rough for me. Not much I could do in my matchups. I managed to get my hands on some trades and I'm going to post my deck list from last night and a tweaked version of what I want to run going forward. Hopefully next week goes smoother. If anybody can offer me advice as to how to play around cavern of souls or rest in peace, that would be nice. Hell even angel heart vial because I couldn't find my kolaghans command to rid the board of vial. This week I just felt useless in my matchups.
In Kaladeshi news: Glimmer of Genius seems to be about the only card from the full spoiler I'm even vaugely interested in, and I'm not sure it's playable
In Kaladeshi news: Glimmer of Genius seems to be about the only card from the full spoiler I'm even vaugely interested in, and I'm not sure it's playable
I don't know. How about Insidious Will? It is probably one of the best 4 mana counterspells to come out in a long time.
If anybody can offer me advice as to how to play around cavern of souls or rest in peace, that would be nice. Hell even angel heart vial because I couldn't find my kolaghans command to rid the board of vial. This week I just felt useless in my matchups.
EDIT: I did not post this list to troll anyone and I do not appreciate the warning for just simply answering someones questions directly with a few card suggestions.
EDIT,EDIT: Some of these cards may not be modern legal.
Insidious Will is an ok card I guess, but if I'm going to play a 4 mana modal counterspell I'm just going to play Cryptic Command
Yes, the completely overrated blue counter-spell called Cryptic Command that was originally intended by WoTC to be used in a mono-blue only sort of deck and can only be used very late game in any other sort of deck. Not that I blame anyone for wanting to use Cryptic Command instead of a card like Insidious Will, even I would rather play Gifts Ungiven maindeck; but, then it could be a good sideboard card to switch out with Gifts Ungiven and that is my main interest in it. That way you can sideboard this and it won't interfere with using at least 1 Cryptic Command.
Overrated? I'd highly recommend trying Cryptic again. My deck only has 4 lands that don't make blue mana (fetches counting as blue here) so I can pretty much always cast Cryptic once I have a 4th land, and it is insane!
Overrated? I'd highly recommend trying Cryptic again. My deck only has 4 lands that don't make blue mana (fetches counting as blue here) so I can pretty much always cast Cryptic once I have a 4th land, and it is insane!
By all means run it when you have the mana base for it. I don't know that I would call it an end all solution; but, it has won me the game a few times, as well, in some decks I have played.
It appears that my previous answer to the question of dealing with enchantments and tribal decks did not contain enough modern legal cards to satisfy answering the question fully for modern and caused some controversy. So, maybe some other people can give suggestions. How would other people besides myself here deal with enchantment and tribal for Grixis and "Cruel Control" in modern? Especially for dealing with decks that use the cards Rest in Peace and Cavern of Souls.
I was thinking engineered explosives for enchantments and bringing back spreading seas for troublesome lands. I loved the card when I ran 4of back when I played this deck standard. Even after then I kept it for the longest time because it was just so good for me so that's one of the options I'm mulling over. I've thought about ghost quarter as well but I'm not crazy on the idea of setting myself back a land. It gets the job done but my mana base is too sacred to me :).
Fullimator Mage is another real contender for the moment in land destruction but I'm not 100% with it.
Engineered Explosives is my to to answer for problem non-land permanents, it is great in a huge range of matchups and I board it in pretty often.
As for Cavern, I run two Crumble to Dust in my board, and I personally think that either they, or Fulminator Mage, are your best bets. The other thing worth noting is that if you get thrashed by Cavern decks a lot then try running more main deck sweepers, if Cavern of Souls is a useful card for them then Damnation will tend to be excellent for us.
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Does anyone have any experience of playing with either Sulfurous Blast, or Volcanic Fallout, and how does everyone feel they compare to Anger of the Gods. I think they're probably just worse, but I thought I'd ask around.
UUBBBRR
The only reason (in my opinion) that people think that Anger of the Gods is a better card in the current meta has to do with other cards using the "Delve" mechanic or other Graveyard shenanigans or like what
Scavenging Ooze or Tarmogoyf do. I guarantee you that if these cards no longer appeared in modern decks, Anger of the Gods would no longer be a dominant relevant form of removal past some other cards that do almost the exact same thing, just slightly different such as Volcanic Fallout or even Slagstorm.
My personal opinion is that people should also consider that a specific card might be better for their own deck (besides the current meta) based upon what their deck is doing, so it may take some experimentation to figure that out for yourself. Not everything is cut and dry about deck building (or copy/paste when talking about netdeckers).
My opinion: Torrential Gearhulk + Charmbreaker Devils + Archaeomancer + Snapcaster Mage = Win!
1x Archaeomancer
1x Augur of Bolas
1x Charmbreaker Devils
1x Grave Titan
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Olivia, Mobilized for War
1x Pilgrim's Eye
1x Sakashima the Impostor
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
4x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
5x Island
1x Izzet Boilerworks
5x Mountain
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Sulfur Falls
4x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Planeswalker (1)
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Barter in Blood
2x Cruel Ultimatum
1x Damnation
1x Dark Salvation
1x Dreadbore
2x Languish
3x Rise // Fall
Instant (18)
1x Cryptic Command
2x Gifts Ungiven
3x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Terminate
4x Vapor Snag
Since I've seen the card I've always loved rise // fall. Even have a few copies myself that I used to run mb so I do enjoy seeing you running it and having successfully considering it's still in your 75. All in all I think the deck looks oddly unique but very playable and winnable.
UUBBBRR
Basically it goes like this: Between turns 1 and 4: Instants and Sorceries matter, Creatures don't matter except to chump block or for card advantage/tempo, mana-fixing or for answers.
Main playstyle is stall, sweep, chumpblock, combo and discard. The only relevant creatures are answers and finishers.
Turn 1: Vapor Snag or Lightning Bolt ------------> Dark Salvation is listed as a 1 mana card, but should be played towards the end of the game.
Turn 2: Terminate or Dreadbore or Rise // Fall ----> Augur of Bolas, Snapcaster Mage
Turn 3: Kolaghan's Command or Anger of the Gods--> Izzet Staticaster, Olivia, Mobilized for War, Pilgrim's Eye,Squee, Goblin Nabob
Turn 4: Archaeomancer, Barter in Blood, Cryptic Command, Damnation, Gifts Ungiven, Languish, Sakashima the Impostor,Solemn Simulacrum
Ask yourself the questions "Do I have board control?" and "Do I have my combo pieces?"
-------If (YES) cast Gifts Ungiven for combo pieces (or a good enough mixture of yes/no to board control and combo pieces question) and primarily chose some combination of Archaeomancer, Cruel Ultimatum, Rise // Fall, Kolaghan's Command with occasionally choosing something else instead.
-------If (NO) you do not have board control, do not cast Gifts Ungiven for combo pieces and instead keep making your opponent run out of tempo with discard and removal.
Turn 5: Keranos, God of Storms
Turn 6: Charmbreaker Devils, Grave Titan used as finishers.
Turn 7: Cruel Ultimatum
Turn 8: Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Combo Pieces, mana-fixing, answers:
Archaeomancer and Cruel Ultimatum combo to chumpblock and cast Cruel every other turn.
Grave Titan and Dark Salvation combo together with Anger of the Gods , Barter in Blood, and Languish to do board sweeps and yet still have some board presence. Can be copied by Sakashima the Impostor for extra attack power, tokens.
Charmbreaker Devils combos with Sakashima the Impostor for double board presence and extra card draw power.
Sakashima the Impostor can copy any other card you have down for extra ability anything and can be an answer to your opponent in the form of copying and chumpblocking their creatures.
Squee, Goblin Nabob combos with Olivia, Mobilized for War and is an answer for Liliana of the Veil
Gifts Ungiven combos with Archaeomancer, Cruel Ultimatum, Rise // Fall, Kolaghan's Command to create an endless cycle of using Cruel Ultimatum every other turn.
Pilgrim's Eye and Solemn Simulacrum for mana-fixing and chumpblocking.
Izzet Staticaster to answer manlands, 1/1 token producers and for chumpblocking.
Augur of Bolas, Snapcaster Mage and Archaeomancer all 3 combo together to get instants and sorceries out of the deck, to take them out of the graveyard and reuse them.
Cryptic Command is in this deck for the utility of it being good overall towards the end of the game.
Barter in Blood can be a slow card except when you are not relying on having creatures of your own between turns 1 and 4, doesn't take out Grave Titan.
Languish Same pro/minus in this deck as Barter in Blood, doesn't take out Grave Titan.
Damnation takes out everything. Better hope that your opponent doesn't top deck their finisher after it wipes all of your stuff off too.
Anger of the Gods is a good sweeper and Snapcaster Mage is cheap at two mana compared to the others, but they exile your own cards which could be combo pieces.
Archaeomancer and Rise // Fall are also a mini-combo to chumpblock, punt back to hand and to keep bringing back Archaeomancer to rinse and repeat.
1x Archaeomancer
1x Augur of Bolas
1x Charmbreaker Devils
1x Grave Titan
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Olivia, Mobilized for War
1x Pilgrim's Eye
1x Sakashima the Impostor
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
Land (25)
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Wandering Fumarole
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
5x Island
1x Izzet Boilerworks
5x Mountain
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Sulfur Falls
4x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Sorcery (12)
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Cruel Ultimatum
1x Damnation
1x Dark Salvation
1x Dreadbore
2x Languish
3x Rise // Fall
Instant (20)
1x Cryptic Command
2x Far // Away
2x Gifts Ungiven
3x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Terminate
4x Vapor Snag
Round one I lost going 1-2. I win game one but games 2 and three he wins thanks to rest in peace. It completely shut me down because I had no answer for enchantments. I tried to bounce it with cryptic but unfortunately had no counters for the re-play so..unlucky.
Game 2 was a near mirror matchup. It was the twin variant. I lose game 1 to huntmaster of the fells and its flip. For whatever reason I got really unlucky and could not find a geth's verdict or even terminate. Game 2 I board in dispel for his countermagic but it was no use. He wins the counter wars and
Kills me with hexproof man land. GG 0-2.
Round 3 is my bye. I win.
Round 4 I go against a tron deck and cavern of souls stops me from my counter magic. Chalice of the void stops me from burn spells. Game 2 I side in sowing salts and slaughter games and don't see a single one until the game is over.
This week was rough for me. Not much I could do in my matchups. I managed to get my hands on some trades and I'm going to post my deck list from last night and a tweaked version of what I want to run going forward. Hopefully next week goes smoother. If anybody can offer me advice as to how to play around cavern of souls or rest in peace, that would be nice. Hell even angel heart vial because I couldn't find my kolaghans command to rid the board of vial. This week I just felt useless in my matchups.
UUBBBRR
I don't know. How about Insidious Will? It is probably one of the best 4 mana counterspells to come out in a long time.
EDIT: I did not post this list to troll anyone and I do not appreciate the warning for just simply answering someones questions directly with a few card suggestions.
EDIT,EDIT: Some of these cards may not be modern legal.
Artifact/Enchantment removal, defeat Rest in Peace.
Ratchet Bomb
Chaos warp
Liquimetal Coating
Vandalblast
Distorting Lens
Pyroblast
Hydroblast
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Oblivion Stone
Lux Cannon
Aura Barbs
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Land destruction, defeat Cavern of Souls.
Deus of Calamity
Runes of the Deus
Armed // Dangerous
Chromatic Lantern
Double Cleave
Boom // Bust
Magus of the Moon
Blood Moon
Seething Song
Simian Spirit Guide
Desperate Ritual
Geosurge
Goblin Ruinblaster
Fulminator Mage
Yes, the completely overrated blue counter-spell called Cryptic Command that was originally intended by WoTC to be used in a mono-blue only sort of deck and can only be used very late game in any other sort of deck. Not that I blame anyone for wanting to use Cryptic Command instead of a card like Insidious Will, even I would rather play Gifts Ungiven maindeck; but, then it could be a good sideboard card to switch out with Gifts Ungiven and that is my main interest in it. That way you can sideboard this and it won't interfere with using at least 1 Cryptic Command.
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
5x Island
1x Izzet Boilerworks
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
5x Mountain
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Sulfur Falls
4x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Wandering Fumarole
Artifact (2)
2x Chromatic Lantern
Creature (9)
1x Archaeomancer
1x Charmbreaker Devils
1x Grave Titan
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1x Pilgrim's Eye
1x Sakashima the Impostor
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
4x Geth's Verdict
2x Gifts Ungiven
4x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Terminate
Sorcery (6)
2x Cruel Ultimatum
1x Dark Salvation
3x Rise // Fall
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Cryptic Command
1x Damnation
1x Dreadbore
2x Far // Away
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
2x Languish
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1x To the Slaughter
By all means run it when you have the mana base for it. I don't know that I would call it an end all solution; but, it has won me the game a few times, as well, in some decks I have played.
I suggest Ratchet Bomb for Rest in Peace; also, side-boarding Magus of the Moon,Blood Moon with maybe 2 or more copies of some mono-red land destruction cards like Fulminator Mage,Deus of Calamity to minimize the effectiveness of any Green and/or White tribal decks using Cavern of Souls. There is also the card Ghost Quarter.
What do you guys think? What are your suggestions?
Fullimator Mage is another real contender for the moment in land destruction but I'm not 100% with it.
UUBBBRR
As for Cavern, I run two Crumble to Dust in my board, and I personally think that either they, or Fulminator Mage, are your best bets. The other thing worth noting is that if you get thrashed by Cavern decks a lot then try running more main deck sweepers, if Cavern of Souls is a useful card for them then Damnation will tend to be excellent for us.