Disrupting Shoal was working amazingly for me, but I gave up and I'm playing Dredge for now. As OP as all the faithless looting decks may be, I think the answer is not to ban it, but make some better control cards for a change. Of course anything really good that get's printed/unbanned will probably go straight into the Phoenix decks too. Been watching some Legacy miracles players stream and THAT is the UW/r deck I want to be playing. Instead of waiting for answers and hoping your opponent has some bad luck, you really get to decide how the game goes most of the time.
Trading away 3 non-impactful cards (2 deads + the thirst) and 3 mana for 1.25 lands and 1.75 random spells, some number of which are also non-impactful, is not a great deal. Mostly because it means you've usually been doing nothing during the early game since you have 3 non-impactful cards and at least 3 lands in your top 9-10 cards when TFK is doing it's best work in the early game.
Even if you can pitch an artifact to it to routinely get the card advantage, it's still not something UW needs, we have lots of card advantage. If you're regularly casting it late in the game then it's just worse than other options, like the 4th Cryptic, 3rd jace, 2nd or 3rd snap etc.
It's good to keep thinking outside the box though.
The 9th place list from SCG Philly looked pretty good to me. It's got a bit lower curve, only 1 Teferi and 3 snaps. This is similar to what I was having the most luck with. Bummer he was 1 spot shy of top 8 I would have probably had both D-spheres in the main and only 1 Azcanta. I also like 1 Ceremonious Rejection and 1 Disdainful Stroke over 1 of the Ancestral Visions and the D-Sphere. Seems to be heading in the right direction, I think we need better answers for turn 1-3, spell pierce might be good right now. Also consider white Leylines because there are a TON of thoughtseize decks, plus it's always great against burn, ad naus and lots of other stuff. Edit: I bet those 2 Timely in the main did a lot of work over the weekend.
I'm just getting back into magic after couple years off, and looking to adjust my UR Control deck ... or whether Jeskai Control, Blue Moon, or Jeskai Tempo or something are better in the meta. I have mo clue. Did one modern night last week with tokens. Didnt go so well, 1-3, with the first two matches Amulet Titan and Eggs. Would you post your decklist? I need more ideas.
UW is the best control deck right now pretty much, but it's still easy to get overrun by all the combo and aggro. I would Check Mtggoldfish for ideas. Looks like there's a nice uptick in lists this past week, but a lot of them have fairly different things going on. The latest one running no creatures and 3 relics in the main is strange. The more standard build has 2-3 snaps, 3 Jace, and 2 Teferi. Nobody can seem to decide what the best sweeper, cantrip or counterspell package is, so it's not like Tron or Dredge where every deck is 59-60 exactly the same cards. Makes it more interesting, but also very hard to decide exactly what to play.
Hello everyone, It has been a long time since I was in here talking, but recently I think this deck keeps looking better and better.
From the article by Frank Karsten on ChannelFirball, Blue/White control had a 59% win rate in day two of GP Bilbao. That seems amazing.
I want to play around with a few cards, and get peoples feed back. One thing that has come into the deck since I last played was Settle the Wreckage so I would like to see about maybe running 2 of them and then having a Torrential Gearhulk in the deck to recast it with counter spells.
I maybe fooling myself, but it seems really good.
Right now I have a 17 card Sideboard, I just need to figure out what the weakest 2 cards are and cut them. (I think I know what they are, but just don't want to cut them)
Never used the blue Gearhulk but seems way too slow, I like V Clique in its place. Cut 1 Stony and 1 Rip or Dispel from the SB and it's GTG. I went down to 24 lands and cut the GQ. I have noticed some Relics showing up in the mainboard, which is probably a pretty good idea right now. 3 Terminus, 1 Settle and 1 Verdict might be better than 4/2.
The blue gearhulk is a very powerful card, but modern is just too fast for this type of effect. As I've been tuning this deck I've noticed that most games I lose I have 4-6 cards in hand with no ability to effectively interact before I get aggroed out. The result is that I look at any cards that cost 4 or more mana or cards that don't interact with the opponent (azcanta, cantrips, etc) with a very critical eye and try to minimize their numbers. For this reason I would not include a 6 mana card in the main-deck right now, but it could be a sideboard option for the slower decks like G/B/x or control mirrors.
The 59% win rate is impressive, and I have a feeling that part of it may be that U/W matches up pretty well to phoenix. All of our removal is super live against them and detention sphere is particularly well positioned as a way to deal with multiple phoenixes for only 3 mana.
I second what slowgod has said about relic of progenitus, this card is very good right now and can slot right in to the maindeck. It does require some concessions in deckbuilding though as search for azcanta and logic knot are really weakened by it's effect. If we just had counterspell this would be much easier to figure out!
I was reading a spot on Sam Black playing a Esper control list. But we was running the normal 8 counterspells in the deck but it was 3 Absorb and 4 Cryptic Command and a logic knot.
I know that is with black in the deck, but that is a interesting idea of going up on the Absorb's, I was also talking to Gabriel Nassif in his twitch chat yesterday, and he was talking about going up to 2 Absorb's as well. Maybe it is better then what we think, even at 3 mana?
I think absorb has been a bit under-rated since its introduction to modern. It is 3 mana and color intensive, but lifegain is a very strong effect for a control deck. I think 3 copies may be a bit much, but I'd be down to test 1-2 copies in the maindeck as a catch all answer that also offers some points of life.
Nassif also just posted a league with a U/W control build with 0 copies of terminus on the CFB website. The deck looks pretty good and he has some good insights. I particularly like his inclusion of more cheap answers in the form of a few 1 ofs: spell snare, oust, and condemn. He has also cut down to 2 JTMS and 2 Teferi which makes sense with no terminus in the deck. He mentions some potential changes at a few points including keeping the 2 angels in the board even though people are expecting them, they are just really strong. I also like the notion of cutting down to 2 cryptic command which he briefly talks through. As a final note, he does not play the 1X ghost quarter that so many people insist on running. I 100% agree that this card is terrible in U/W control and is only being played as a relic from a time when there were no better options.
Really good points, I love watching Nassif, I am a subscriber to his Twitch Stream. He was also talking at one point how Dragonlord Ojutai preformed greatly for him when he used to play it, and could see maybe cutting 1 Teferi for it. I for one thinks that crazy! But I am also not a Pro Tour winning Hall of Fame member, so maybe he knows more then me. lol
But I do like the idea of also trying a Dragon Lord once and see what happens.
@Wolffman I also play the Ghost Quarter in my deck, but you are right that I also have not found it amazing or anything. What would you like in the deck more? Just another island? I have a funny idea, but Calciform Pools Sure it might be bad, but we pass turns alot and do nothing. If we do that 2-3 turns, we could have 1 land thate that gives us 2, 3, 4, mana for a turn. That's seems interesting that we could cast a Absorb off the one land on a turn and still have mana left over to cast another instant and a secret tech vs. the mirror. But maybe I am over thinking and I'm trying to be to "cute" with a card. But also just trying to think outside the box.
The most common answer for what land to run would be extra copies of glacial fortress. I have always had 1X copy of mystic gate in my build though since it really helps pull of cryptic commands when plains are involved!
I've avoided Ojutai so I can't speak to that one, but I think Teferi is just better and I like having the angels in the sideboard since they win so many matches.
The most common answer for what land to run would be extra copies of glacial fortress. I have always had 1X copy of mystic gate in my build though since it really helps pull of cryptic commands when plains are involved!
I've avoided Ojutai so I can't speak to that one, but I think Teferi is just better and I like having the angels in the sideboard since they win so many matches.
I can't play Mystic Gate in a deck with 4 fields. It has burned me numerous times in the past when I didn't have colored mana in the opener. Sometimes Glacial and Field as the only lands works out.
Absorb isn't good in UW. It's too slow to have the life gain be useful and the triple color requirement is a huge deal in a deck with 4-5 colorless sources - you can't always cast it turn 3 and on turn 4 you can rarely double spell. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but it came up for me multiple times every league I tested it.
I looked at the Esper list with 3x absorb and absorb certainly looks a lot better there - it has 6-8 more 1-2cmc non-counterspell interaction and 3-4 less colorless sources. This means you're going to be untapping on turn 3 with the ability to cast it far more often in addition to having a clear board far more often. You're also going to be able to double spell on turn 4 far more often as well.
Being able to double spell with it on turn 4 in that Esper list shouldn't be undervalued either since you are often going to want to cast a 3cmc walker on turn 3 some amount of the time - being able to push or path the threat they cast last turn plus absorb the one they play that turn is a big deal.
I also think the 3 life is a lot more valuable in a deck with 6 more fetches and 1-2 more shock lands.
absorb is fine.
IMO, the ghost quarter is bad if you don't play crucible, and crucible isn't that good right now.
4 colorless sources is a little awkward, but its not too bad.
Its been consistently reasonable for me.
The cards I'd be playing in that slot (timely, gideon, clique, etc) are all not better. It mostly depends on what you expect to play against, or want another mainboard card for.
Yeah, that’s a good point. I’m on a 1/1 split of hallowed fountain and prairie stream and think it’s actually really good in a deck with 8+ basics and 4 field of ruin. I’m not a fan of the farmland over prairie stream because it doesn’t allow you to do anything rot like stream does. The two life comes up fairly often. I’m a big fan of the split I’ve got and convinced the other uw player at my legs about it.
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Yeah, that’s a good point. I’m on a 1/1 split of hallowed fountain and prairie stream and think it’s actually really good in a deck with 8+ basics and 4 field of ruin. I’m not a fan of the farmland over prairie stream because it doesn’t allow you to do anything rot like stream does. The two life comes up fairly often. I’m a big fan of the split I’ve got and convinced the other uw player at my legs about it.
I tried this out a while ago and liked it, but everyone at my LGS convinced my it wasn't correct, including another UW player and a Jeskai player. But I still like it.
I don't really understand the hype for Stream, seems like a bad glacial fortress to me. Anytime Stream would come in untapped so would fortress but the reverse is not true. Also virtually every time you have two basics you don't need to fetch for a dual because we hardly have a use for the second white source until we get to colonnade Mana.
I could see an argument for farmland since it can mitigate flood sometimes but I think having ETB lands above colonnade is just not good, the format is too fast.
It’s fetchable, unlike glacial fortress. And if we have two basics there is no reason to not fetch a dual. It gives us more colored mana. Plains plains island let’s us snap path. Plains stream island let’s us snap path or snap opt. In a deck with so many basics I see no treason to not run it over the second hallowed fountain.
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Even if you can pitch an artifact to it to routinely get the card advantage, it's still not something UW needs, we have lots of card advantage. If you're regularly casting it late in the game then it's just worse than other options, like the 4th Cryptic, 3rd jace, 2nd or 3rd snap etc.
It's good to keep thinking outside the box though.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
From the article by Frank Karsten on ChannelFirball, Blue/White control had a 59% win rate in day two of GP Bilbao. That seems amazing.
I want to play around with a few cards, and get peoples feed back. One thing that has come into the deck since I last played was Settle the Wreckage so I would like to see about maybe running 2 of them and then having a Torrential Gearhulk in the deck to recast it with counter spells.
I maybe fooling myself, but it seems really good.
1 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Absorb
1 Condemn
3 Cryptic Command
1 Detention Sphere
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
2 Negate
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Settle the Wreckage
4 Terminus
1 Timely Reinforcments
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
6 Island
2 Plains
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Celestial Purge
1 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Dispel
1 Negate
3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Timely Reinforcements
Right now I have a 17 card Sideboard, I just need to figure out what the weakest 2 cards are and cut them. (I think I know what they are, but just don't want to cut them)
Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
The 59% win rate is impressive, and I have a feeling that part of it may be that U/W matches up pretty well to phoenix. All of our removal is super live against them and detention sphere is particularly well positioned as a way to deal with multiple phoenixes for only 3 mana.
I second what slowgod has said about relic of progenitus, this card is very good right now and can slot right in to the maindeck. It does require some concessions in deckbuilding though as search for azcanta and logic knot are really weakened by it's effect. If we just had counterspell this would be much easier to figure out!
I know that is with black in the deck, but that is a interesting idea of going up on the Absorb's, I was also talking to Gabriel Nassif in his twitch chat yesterday, and he was talking about going up to 2 Absorb's as well. Maybe it is better then what we think, even at 3 mana?
Nassif also just posted a league with a U/W control build with 0 copies of terminus on the CFB website. The deck looks pretty good and he has some good insights. I particularly like his inclusion of more cheap answers in the form of a few 1 ofs: spell snare, oust, and condemn. He has also cut down to 2 JTMS and 2 Teferi which makes sense with no terminus in the deck. He mentions some potential changes at a few points including keeping the 2 angels in the board even though people are expecting them, they are just really strong. I also like the notion of cutting down to 2 cryptic command which he briefly talks through. As a final note, he does not play the 1X ghost quarter that so many people insist on running. I 100% agree that this card is terrible in U/W control and is only being played as a relic from a time when there were no better options.
But I do like the idea of also trying a Dragon Lord once and see what happens.
@Wolffman I also play the Ghost Quarter in my deck, but you are right that I also have not found it amazing or anything. What would you like in the deck more? Just another island? I have a funny idea, but Calciform Pools Sure it might be bad, but we pass turns alot and do nothing. If we do that 2-3 turns, we could have 1 land thate that gives us 2, 3, 4, mana for a turn. That's seems interesting that we could cast a Absorb off the one land on a turn and still have mana left over to cast another instant and a secret tech vs. the mirror. But maybe I am over thinking and I'm trying to be to "cute" with a card. But also just trying to think outside the box.
I've avoided Ojutai so I can't speak to that one, but I think Teferi is just better and I like having the angels in the sideboard since they win so many matches.
I can't play Mystic Gate in a deck with 4 fields. It has burned me numerous times in the past when I didn't have colored mana in the opener. Sometimes Glacial and Field as the only lands works out.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I looked at the Esper list with 3x absorb and absorb certainly looks a lot better there - it has 6-8 more 1-2cmc non-counterspell interaction and 3-4 less colorless sources. This means you're going to be untapping on turn 3 with the ability to cast it far more often in addition to having a clear board far more often. You're also going to be able to double spell on turn 4 far more often as well.
Being able to double spell with it on turn 4 in that Esper list shouldn't be undervalued either since you are often going to want to cast a 3cmc walker on turn 3 some amount of the time - being able to push or path the threat they cast last turn plus absorb the one they play that turn is a big deal.
I also think the 3 life is a lot more valuable in a deck with 6 more fetches and 1-2 more shock lands.
IMO, the ghost quarter is bad if you don't play crucible, and crucible isn't that good right now.
4 colorless sources is a little awkward, but its not too bad.
Its been consistently reasonable for me.
The cards I'd be playing in that slot (timely, gideon, clique, etc) are all not better. It mostly depends on what you expect to play against, or want another mainboard card for.
Cycle, and fetchable outweighing the etb imo.
I tried this out a while ago and liked it, but everyone at my LGS convinced my it wasn't correct, including another UW player and a Jeskai player. But I still like it.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I could see an argument for farmland since it can mitigate flood sometimes but I think having ETB lands above colonnade is just not good, the format is too fast.