I really want to try using 4x Disrupting Shoal and a Monastery Mentor or 2. I kind of traded my deck in frustration though... I'm on Tron for the time being, but I already miss UW even though I'm winning a lot more and much faster.
I really want to try using 4x Disrupting Shoal and a Monastery Mentor or 2. I kind of traded my deck in frustration though... I'm on Tron for the time being, but I already miss UW even though I'm winning a lot more and much faster.
Don't get me started on Mentor... It's my favorite card that never got the chance to be good in Modern. UW is amazing!!!! You shouldn't have traded it away. It's definitely a deck that will only get better in the future and it surely rewards persistence. I got a bit frustrated after a couple of events and moved back to GDS... All it took me was one league to change my mind. I feel way more comfortable playing UW now. It has been ~9 months of only playing this deck.
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Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
You could probably just stick a mentor in one of the flex slots and see how it does. I still wonder how good Disrupting Shoal could be right now. I've never tried it, but there are so many 1-2 mana spells it could easily counter for free or 3-4 mana later on. I will probably just get the deck back soon since it's still my favorite to play. A mainboard Surgical Extraction would probably do pretty well right now too.
I was running disrupting shoal just before and after the banning of KCI in bant control (basically UW with 4x Growth spiral as the only green cards instead of some of the filler/flex stuff). It was pretty good, it won me a lot of games. Without the additional 2 drop blue cards, i'm not sure if you could justify it though I suppose it is worth testing. If you do decide to test it out consider running some number of Heiroglyphic illumination over some of the 1cmc cantrips because there are a lot more 4cmc cards that are 'must-counter' than there are 1cmc cards that are must-counter. Also, pitching a cryptic command or Jace just always feels bad.
Lost to Scapeshift Round 1 and Mono-G Tron in Round 9. Beat Izzet Phoenix, Eldrazi Tron, Dredge, Burn, Mono-G Tron, Eldrazi Aggro, GDS. I was really impressed with Absorb. It allowed me to bridge to the late game a lot. Also, the 3 life points mattered all but once. I'm going to replace Supreme Verdict for the 2nd Absorb. I also stuggled to get UU on Turn 2 some games. So I'm going to cut 1 Plains for a Polluted Delta.
Lost to Scapeshift Round 1 and Mono-G Tron in Round 9. Beat Izzet Phoenix, Eldrazi Tron, Dredge, Burn, Mono-G Tron, Eldrazi Aggro, GDS. I was really impressed with Absorb. It allowed me to bridge to the late game a lot. Also, the 3 life points mattered all but once. I'm going to replace Supreme Verdict for the 2nd Absorb. I also stuggled to get UU on Turn 2 some games. So I'm going to cut 1 Plains for a Polluted Delta.
Thoughts on my list?
It's a damn shame you lost to Scapeshift with 2 Halos in the board! I would've thought that matchup is basically a bye with your setup. Can't wait to get Counterspell for this matchup tho.
About your list, it's pretty similar to what I'm on for UW -- even down to the Surgicals over RiPs. I would've cut the 1 Stony in the board for something else, (since it's probably not worth it as a 1 of). I'd also recommend a DSphere over the Disenchant in your sideboard.
Mainboard, I think you want the 2nd Glacial over the 1st GQ, and I could see trimming a Plains for another blue source (a Glacial, Island, or Delta).
I also recently started playing 2 Hieroglyphic Illumination in the spot where you're playing Serum and I've been impressed. Do you have any thoughts on that?
I don't like that you play 2 wraths, since they're usually dead in a lot of matchups -- assuming you want to keep one in, I'd suggest probably the Settle, but then I'd swap the Condemn for an Oust to play better around discard.
Edit: How did you board against Burn? I'm curious to hear more about that matchup.
The burn matchup was hard. But I boarded like:
-2 Teferi
-1 Terminus
-1 Settle
-1 Cryptic
+1 Dispel
+2 Timely
+1 Negate
+1 Lyra
I wanted to lower my curve. I only casted Timely when I had Dispel/Spell Snare backup. I did talk with the burn player and asked if I should have sb'd in the Runed Halos. He said most people do just to name Eidelon. So next time I'll probably do -1 Cryptic and -1 Azcanta for 2 Halo.
I keep going back and forth on HI, but I keep telling myself that if I play that I want to play Gearhulk over Clique. Then I can move Clique to sb and remove Stony Silence.
I really want to try using 4x Disrupting Shoal and a Monastery Mentor or 2. I kind of traded my deck in frustration though... I'm on Tron for the time being, but I already miss UW even though I'm winning a lot more and much faster.
Don't get me started on Mentor... It's my favorite card that never got the chance to be good in Modern. UW is amazing!!!! You shouldn't have traded it away. It's definitely a deck that will only get better in the future and it surely rewards persistence. I got a bit frustrated after a couple of events and moved back to GDS... All it took me was one league to change my mind. I feel way more comfortable playing UW now. It has been ~9 months of only playing this deck.
I've been trying to make Mentor work in modern since the day he was printed. Last week I played a Miracles Mentor list at my LGS, not to a great finish. I've tried a ton of control/midrange shells but just can't get it right. The lack of brainstorm to shuffle him away when we don't need him is I think the biggest problem.
Edit again: I need to have coffee before I post next time... I just noticed it was actually @saltysquid14's deck, lol... anyway. I'm playing fairly similar list although I keep changing a couple cards. How do you sideboard vs Phoenix? I think I end up cutting logic knots, 1 teferi, D sphere, search, and maybe a cryptic or snap for rip/surgical, celestial purge, dispel, angels, but never seems right. Runed Halo might be good against Phoenix too? I might have to try that again. I usually end up losing a really close match. I was on 3 terminus 1 verdict 1 settle, but I'm not sure what's best anymore. I keep going back to this deck cause I like it, but it really feels like you needs to get lucky while your opponent gets unlucky in order to win a lot of the time. We could really use some good updated info on matchups, and hopefully modern horizons will give us some good new cards.
@Ym1r Yeah I tried Mentor in a league and never even got to make a monk token before he was dead or just stuck in my hand.
What matchup would Mentor help? None that I can think of. The bad matchups seem to be Tron (especially if they win the die roll) and Burn. I might try 2 Dampening Spheres in the sb just to try and shore up the sb game where I'm on the draw. Plus it's another good card vs Storm and Phoenix. If I wanted an early creature, I'd go with Thing in the Ice. But that just doesn't seem worth the slots.
What matchup would Mentor help? None that I can think of. The bad matchups seem to be Tron (especially if they win the die roll) and Burn. I might try 2 Dampening Spheres in the sb just to try and shore up the sb game where I'm on the draw. Plus it's another good card vs Storm and Phoenix. If I wanted an early creature, I'd go with Thing in the Ice. But that just doesn't seem worth the slots.
In Modern Mentor is just a bad Geist of Saint Traft. For the Tron matchup my plan is go "tempo" style. I bring in 2 GoST, 2 Damping Sphere, 2 Stony Silence. With my 2 Main Cliques and Snaps, I just go ham on killing them while leaving mana up to counter their counter play. It's really tricky but you kinda have to since they have inevitability.
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Oddly enough I keep winning against burn and tron and losing against things like spirits, phoenix, humans, infinite coco combo type decks. And Ad Nauseum, I really hate Ad Naus.
Oddly enough I keep winning against burn and tron and losing against things like spirits, phoenix, humans, infinite coco combo type decks. And Ad Nauseum, I really hate Ad Naus.
My tip against Spirits and Coco Combo is to not play around the Collected Company itself too much. Most times I lost because I respected it too much and got punished really hard for that. Try to soul read them and see if they have it or not. Then go for an aggressive play to swing the game into your favor. I bring in the Angels post sideboard so that I clog the board. It's tough to find an opening to tap out for it but you can put yourself in a situation where you have a Path/Dispel in your hand to back up "tapping out" for the Angel.
Humans it's slightly more difficult in my experience because of Meddling Mage and Freebooter. If you're struggling against all these creature heavy decks I suggest you add a Cataclysmic Gearhulk to your sideboard. It's a sweeper they're not expecting and they won't call it with Meddling Mage.
Ad Nauseam one of my plans against it is mana denial. Try to counter their mana rocks and FoR them out of existence. Runed Halo is really good here and against Phoenix if you can make room for it. Damping Sphere isn't incredible vs Ad Nauseam and Phoenix but it's ok. Against Ad Nauseam it can make their combo turn way difficult and probably fizzle. Phoenix can definitely play around it but doing so buys you so much time that you'll probably get them because of that. Against both the Surgical Extractions are great.
Yeah, my big problem with Coco / combo is eventually running out of answers to the inevitable, so something to close the game out like Angels makes sense. I bring in dispel, surgical and rips usually, but dilutes some of my other answers like counters and snaps. I did start using a Gearhulk and it's been insanely good actually. I was playing against humans and he had Teeg and 2 meddling mages locking me out of pretty much anything, but Gearhulk saved the day. I've been thinking more and more of converting to Legacy and I think I'm gonna do it. Maybe I'll even get lucky and get some stuff that gets reprinted in MH at a discount now.
RIPs aren't that great against CoCo. It does more harm to us than to them. Their combo isn't graveyard dependent and they also trim on combo pieces and go for the value plan with Tireless Tracker, Courser of Kruphix and the like.
My plan against them is to bring in 2 Angels, 1 Surgical and 2 Dispels. For that I cut 1 Search for Azcanta, 1 Mana Leak, 1 Negate, 1 Knot, 1 Timely Reinforcements. I let 2 Dispels for their 4 CoCos. They typically bring some sort of GY hate, usually Ooze, so Knot gets extra bad. Leak is really tough to make it effective because with so many dorks they can play around it easily (specially since we'll be pathing them ASAP). Timely produces little value. Both the lifegain and the bodies are pretty much worthless. Search for Azcanta is debatable since it helps you dig but at the same time doesn't help you that much in the early game because you are so mana tight.
Good luck on converting to Legacy. I would if I had a scene around me. If I were you I wouldn't give up on Modern just yet. I'm betting money that we'll get Counterspell on MH1 and it will help a lot our deck.
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Yeah I wasn't sure about RIP, but I recently played against one with a lot of E Witnesses and Finks, but that still doesn't stop the druid/ballista combo.
I've been looking at Legacy lists lately and I just started playing this modern version based off of it and so far it's actually been kind of amazing... I'm using Counterbalance which is countering TONS of stuff even blindly, but I'm able to setup the top card often with jace and serum and even holding opt/hieroglyphic to use the 2nd card to counter. Mentor has been crazy when he starts going off, and disrupting Shoal has also been really awesome so far. Countering turn 1 thoughtseize or tapping out and still having a counter for certain spells.
Edit: Went 3/2 in first league, might need a couple more lands, but it wasn't really a problem except when I got turn 2 blood mooned twice by mono red prison. Still running the same amount of basics as usual though. I beat Shadow, some green ponza/tooth and nail deck and I already forgot what else.
I heard about a list running main-deck relic of progenitus, talisman of progress, and thirst for knowledge. The relics are good against dredge and decent against phoenix and a few other things, they can be pretty useless against things like tron and burn though so they become a 2 mana cycle. Any thoughts on a build like this for the current meta?
Talisman isn't bad in the archetype since the deck is very mana hungry, some of us have even tried to make a green splash just for Growth Spiral to work. Thirst and Relic are more suspect though, I've done a fair amount of testing with configurations including some or all the combinations of these 3 cards in UW control.
Thirst is nice in theory, pairs well with Azcanta and can often be cheap card advantage when paired with the artifacts mentioned, but it doesn't really address any of the issues UW has, which in my opinion is early interaction. We have plenty of card advantage between snaps, walkers, cryptics, azcanta if we can live long enough to get there, and a 3 cmc draw spell doesn't really help us live to get there most times.
Relic has some nonbos with Snappy, Azcanta and Logic Knot but not so much as RIP does so it seems like a decent hate card but it's not's a powerful enough effect going late into the game that it justifies encroaching on your own early game strategy; often you'll be casting and cracking the relic in the first few turns and then your nonbo cards are no longer good to get you through to the late game. If you're going to play a strategy with main gravehate I would have to recommend playing RIP and cutting the nonbo cards. The issue with this approach is that every RIP after the first one is dead in game 1. I tried to combat this by playing 1 RIP and 2 Relic of Progenitus while cutting the nonbo cards and it felt ok. Relic being able to trigger instant speed miracles came up a couple times, which was cool. I didn't have enough time to test it extensively though, so I can't exactly recommend taking it to important tournaments. Can definitely recommend giving it a shot in less important settings though. I plan on getting back to testing it as soon as this semester ends.
You make a good point about how U/W's biggest issue, which is not having the right early game interaction and getting run over before we can stabilize. I'm trying to make a build using more 1 mana interaction like spell pierce, spell snare, oust to ensure we make it through turn 5 without being dead or too far behind to come back and take over. This creates a new problem which is that many of these cards are pretty bad after turn 5 and can make the late game worse. The solution I want to test to that is playing 3X Jace, the mind sculptor and some number of thirst for knowledge to trade the early game cards for more powerful options in the late game. I feel like current builds with 4x cryptic, 3x JTMS, 2x Teferi, 2x azcanta are a bit over-engineered for the late game with all of these cards that don't interact at all until turn 4 at the earliest. I'll be working on my build for the next few days and let you guys know how it does.
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WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
2 Serum Visions
4 Path to Exile
1 Condemn
1 Spell Snare
1 Mana Leak
1 Logic Knot
1 Negate
1 Absorb
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Cryptic Command
4 Terminus
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Detention Sphere
3 Jace, the Mind Sculpture
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendillion Clique
4 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Flooded Strand
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Glacial Fortress
5 Island
3 Plains
2 Timely Reinforcement
2 Runed Halo
1 Negate
1 Disenchant
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
1 Lyra the Dawnbringer
1 Stony Silence
Lost to Scapeshift Round 1 and Mono-G Tron in Round 9. Beat Izzet Phoenix, Eldrazi Tron, Dredge, Burn, Mono-G Tron, Eldrazi Aggro, GDS. I was really impressed with Absorb. It allowed me to bridge to the late game a lot. Also, the 3 life points mattered all but once. I'm going to replace Supreme Verdict for the 2nd Absorb. I also stuggled to get UU on Turn 2 some games. So I'm going to cut 1 Plains for a Polluted Delta.
Thoughts on my list?
It's a damn shame you lost to Scapeshift with 2 Halos in the board! I would've thought that matchup is basically a bye with your setup. Can't wait to get Counterspell for this matchup tho.
About your list, it's pretty similar to what I'm on for UW -- even down to the Surgicals over RiPs. I would've cut the 1 Stony in the board for something else, (since it's probably not worth it as a 1 of). I'd also recommend a DSphere over the Disenchant in your sideboard.
Mainboard, I think you want the 2nd Glacial over the 1st GQ, and I could see trimming a Plains for another blue source (a Glacial, Island, or Delta).
I also recently started playing 2 Hieroglyphic Illumination in the spot where you're playing Serum and I've been impressed. Do you have any thoughts on that?
I don't like that you play 2 wraths, since they're usually dead in a lot of matchups -- assuming you want to keep one in, I'd suggest probably the Settle, but then I'd swap the Condemn for an Oust to play better around discard.
Edit: How did you board against Burn? I'm curious to hear more about that matchup.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
-2 Teferi
-1 Terminus
-1 Settle
-1 Cryptic
+1 Dispel
+2 Timely
+1 Negate
+1 Lyra
I wanted to lower my curve. I only casted Timely when I had Dispel/Spell Snare backup. I did talk with the burn player and asked if I should have sb'd in the Runed Halos. He said most people do just to name Eidelon. So next time I'll probably do -1 Cryptic and -1 Azcanta for 2 Halo.
I keep going back and forth on HI, but I keep telling myself that if I play that I want to play Gearhulk over Clique. Then I can move Clique to sb and remove Stony Silence.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
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@Ym1r Yeah I tried Mentor in a league and never even got to make a monk token before he was dead or just stuck in my hand.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
Humans it's slightly more difficult in my experience because of Meddling Mage and Freebooter. If you're struggling against all these creature heavy decks I suggest you add a Cataclysmic Gearhulk to your sideboard. It's a sweeper they're not expecting and they won't call it with Meddling Mage.
Ad Nauseam one of my plans against it is mana denial. Try to counter their mana rocks and FoR them out of existence. Runed Halo is really good here and against Phoenix if you can make room for it. Damping Sphere isn't incredible vs Ad Nauseam and Phoenix but it's ok. Against Ad Nauseam it can make their combo turn way difficult and probably fizzle. Phoenix can definitely play around it but doing so buys you so much time that you'll probably get them because of that. Against both the Surgical Extractions are great.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
My plan against them is to bring in 2 Angels, 1 Surgical and 2 Dispels. For that I cut 1 Search for Azcanta, 1 Mana Leak, 1 Negate, 1 Knot, 1 Timely Reinforcements. I let 2 Dispels for their 4 CoCos. They typically bring some sort of GY hate, usually Ooze, so Knot gets extra bad. Leak is really tough to make it effective because with so many dorks they can play around it easily (specially since we'll be pathing them ASAP). Timely produces little value. Both the lifegain and the bodies are pretty much worthless. Search for Azcanta is debatable since it helps you dig but at the same time doesn't help you that much in the early game because you are so mana tight.
Good luck on converting to Legacy. I would if I had a scene around me. If I were you I wouldn't give up on Modern just yet. I'm betting money that we'll get Counterspell on MH1 and it will help a lot our deck.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
I've been looking at Legacy lists lately and I just started playing this modern version based off of it and so far it's actually been kind of amazing... I'm using Counterbalance which is countering TONS of stuff even blindly, but I'm able to setup the top card often with jace and serum and even holding opt/hieroglyphic to use the 2nd card to counter. Mentor has been crazy when he starts going off, and disrupting Shoal has also been really awesome so far. Countering turn 1 thoughtseize or tapping out and still having a counter for certain spells.
Edit: Went 3/2 in first league, might need a couple more lands, but it wasn't really a problem except when I got turn 2 blood mooned twice by mono red prison. Still running the same amount of basics as usual though. I beat Shadow, some green ponza/tooth and nail deck and I already forgot what else.
2x Absorb
2x Cryptic Command
4x Disrupting Shoal
2x Hieroglyphic Illumination
4x Opt
4x Path to Exile
2x remand
Sorcery (8)
4x Serum Visions
7x Terminus
Enchantment (4)
2x Counterbalance
2x Detention Sphere
2x Celestial Colonnade
2x Field of Ruin
4x Flooded Strand
2x seachrome coast
2x Hallowed Fountain
6x Island
2x Plains
Creature (6)
2x Monastery Mentor
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x temporal mastery
1x Celestial Purge
2x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Disdainful Stroke
1x Dispel
1x surgical extraction
2x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Timely Reinforcements
I think the only time you want the third plains is vs moon decks. Another fetch is fine since you're playing azcanta.
Thirst is nice in theory, pairs well with Azcanta and can often be cheap card advantage when paired with the artifacts mentioned, but it doesn't really address any of the issues UW has, which in my opinion is early interaction. We have plenty of card advantage between snaps, walkers, cryptics, azcanta if we can live long enough to get there, and a 3 cmc draw spell doesn't really help us live to get there most times.
Relic has some nonbos with Snappy, Azcanta and Logic Knot but not so much as RIP does so it seems like a decent hate card but it's not's a powerful enough effect going late into the game that it justifies encroaching on your own early game strategy; often you'll be casting and cracking the relic in the first few turns and then your nonbo cards are no longer good to get you through to the late game. If you're going to play a strategy with main gravehate I would have to recommend playing RIP and cutting the nonbo cards. The issue with this approach is that every RIP after the first one is dead in game 1. I tried to combat this by playing 1 RIP and 2 Relic of Progenitus while cutting the nonbo cards and it felt ok. Relic being able to trigger instant speed miracles came up a couple times, which was cool. I didn't have enough time to test it extensively though, so I can't exactly recommend taking it to important tournaments. Can definitely recommend giving it a shot in less important settings though. I plan on getting back to testing it as soon as this semester ends.