Also guys, is anyone still running any number of Spell Queller and Jace Vryn's Prodigy? They seems to be good against combo for the first one and also providing card selection at a low cost for baby Jace.
Baby jace is not playable. If you're trying to do something fair with him, he's outclassed by a number of other cards.
Spell queller seems some sideboard play. Its ok, but its not great.
I personally hate queller. There are a lot better sb cards that can be used instead, and it doesn't hit anything we need to worry about like the planeswalkers (besides Liliana of the Veil) and tron cards, Also with trophy coming along it's even worse
I'm thinking about cutting 1 telling time to try 1 or 2 copies, and include 1 copy of noxious revival to reuse terminus that you think?
Briefing has been pretty good for me. Most times it's been in my opener I've been glad it wasn't snap. The times it wasn't was against Storm where I really like dry snap on t2 for pressure. It's been great to fuel logic knot and search for azcanta, even had a nifty scenario come up where I wanted to brief-path a guy but after finding a terminus on top I just left the path in the GY and 2 turns later I had exactly enough cards to logic knot a threat due to having 3 more cards in the yard that I would have if brief was a snap. Obviously anecdotal and situational but very good nonetheless.
I haven't played a ton with it in UW, only about 5 matches or so, but I can see it being a staple. Helping to make terminus, azcanta and logic knot more consistent are all things we want to be doing. A 2/1 body is nice, but gimme that sweet surveil. My testing is at 2-1 split between brief and snap currently, but I'll probably end up on just 2-3 briefing eventually. I've always said that there is diminishing returns on snapcasters after copy number 1 of snap in UW but the effect is too powerful to not play at least 2 copies, briefing kind of addresses this.
As far as noxious revival for Terminus goes, its definitely cute, and I'll have to think on it some more because I often play a 1-of gifts Ungiven for value in UW, and noxious in a deck with snap/brief sounds pretty enticing with gifts. Though I've never played gifts in a terminus list, because I'm usually using it to find a pile of sweepers (Verdict, Wrath, DOJ, EE). My initial thought is that Noxious probably isn't good, cards that do nothing on their own often backfire and this one has the additional downside of requiring you to take damage as well which is not something you want to be doing if you're in a position that needs the board to be swept, you're probably under life total pressure already.
I'll probably try it regardless of imagining it's bad. I can imagine an interesting EOT gifts pile of terminus,noxious revival, radical idea and mission briefing being pretty sweet.
I'm thinking about swithcing from classic list with Seas to the Miracle version. However, I'm pondering about planeswalker number. I'm leaning toward 2 Jace and 1 Teferi, running 4 Terminus and 1 Verdict with 2 Snapcaster Mage and 2 Vendilion Clique. Out of experience, would you think 1 Teferi is enough ? What does the 2nd Teferi bring to the table ? Could Miracle work without Teferi ?
I'm thinking about swithcing from classic list with Seas to the Miracle version. However, I'm pondering about planeswalker number. I'm leaning toward 2 Jace and 1 Teferi, running 4 Terminus and 1 Verdict with 2 Snapcaster Mage and 2 Vendilion Clique. Out of experience, would you think 1 Teferi is enough ? What does the 2nd Teferi bring to the table ? Could Miracle work without Teferi ?
Cheers !
Teferi isn't needed for setting up miracles at all. However, he is absolutely the most decisive game closing walker in control right now. Jace pulls more duty when it comes to setting up miracle triggers - but don't skimp on Teferi. He's pretty much a staple in UWx now for a reason.
Most people who play the deck either go 3/2 Jace/Teferi split, or 2/2.
every time I play against this deck I feel like it has 0 bad match ups outside of Storm. I've run this deck a few times in testing and feel like it's absurd in it's power level.
Have been thinking of just jamming this since it feels like tier 0. It's very forgiving at times, the burn match up is even 50/50. If the meta shifted to hate this deck out what would it look like? 8 rack? Storm?? That's it?
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
After spending most of the last year in Blue Moon, I finally got what I needed for UW. My experience with Stifle Bird was absolutely great in Moon, but I don't see it in too many UW lists. Any reason for that?
I played today a fnm of 4 rounds. I won 2-0 to spirits (with luck) and thanks to the terminus. I won Bridgevine 2-1. Won 2-0 to hardened and lost 2-0 vs jund.
I was currently playing 3 Leyline of sanctity to combat combo decks like storm, ad nauseam and burn. But with jund I find many difficulties, the discard hurts, also bloodbraid elf is a 2x1 with great impact, and assassins trophy is also very good.
Should I replace the 3 leylines with other cards for the BGX pairing? Geist of saint traft for example?
Goodness gracious does this deck beat up on creature decks... Handily took 4-0 against Burn (2-1), Elves (2-0), Jund Aggro (2-0), and Goblins (2-0). Had I been on Blue Moon like normal, this would have likely been a 1-3 or 0-4 kind of night, but wow. This is amazing. I played the list below. It's mostly stock, running the GQ/Crucible package (which was fairly lackluster). Might swap GQ for another Glacial Fortress and Crucible for another Stifle Bird. The other change I liked a lot was a full 4 Spell Snare (2 main, 2 side) which were wonderful, even though I never saw an Assassin's Trophy. It still hits SO MANY relevant things.
Highlights of the night were definitely the two Teferi ultimates. What made them so wonderful is the opponent didn't scoop and made me play it out. I happily drew cards, exiled things, and beat in with Colonnades. My favorite was Jace Brainstorm, find a second Jace, cast it, and Brainstorm again to exile 6 things. Won two games as "flawless victory" opponents with no hand and no permanents.
@ cfusionpm : congrats on the 4-0, nice liste too.
For everyone, I'm kind of having the opposite of what I expected... I'm doing good against combo deck so far, but I'm having a hard time against midrange ? I have a bad game 1 history, gets better post-board, but I usually end up 1-2 against Jund and such. Any advice or experience from your side? Cheers !
In my experience the match up against Jund is very close. With Jeskai I feel very quite favoured because of the cheap red removal which makes it easy to kill stuff like Bob and LotV. If you want to improve it, play stuff like Secure the Waste, Gideon AoZ or Elspeth. AV is also very good against BGx but I personally dislike the card.
So far, I'm very unimpressed with the deck. In 5 games, I'm 1-4. I've been rolled over by Jund 0-2 three times, there's nothing I can do. I've lost 1-2 to Burn (that doesn't surprise me) but I've won agaisnt Titanshift. The Miracle set up is very clunky so far and Opt is very subpar compared to Serum Vision. I'm coming from Esper Control and I feel very limited in the shell. I'll need time to adjust, but so far, it's far away from the god sent deck I was hoping for.
@SCP7 : thanks for the insight. I've added 1 Celestial Purge to the sideboard and I'm considering having 1 Secure the Wastes mainboard.
After watching many others play this deck (locally and online) I see many losses come when players get antsy and start getting aggressive too early. I only tap out for something (Azcanta, Jace, Teferi) if I have no instant speed cards in hand or opponent is putting me under no pressure (or representing answers). Patience is the name of the game and I feel like my mindset is based around "all I need to do is NOT lose, and eventually I'll win." This means you need to be patient but also play quickly to avoid going to time. As Jeff Hoogland says on stream, when you're drawing cards and choosing to scry or bin the card, if it's not potato salad, it doesn't belong in your hand. The hardest part about the deck is passing up on cards that are OK while digging for the ones that are game breaking. This is not a deck to be played aggressively.
So far, I'm very unimpressed with the deck. In 5 games, I'm 1-4. I've been rolled over by Jund 0-2 three times, there's nothing I can do. I've lost 1-2 to Burn (that doesn't surprise me) but I've won agaisnt Titanshift. The Miracle set up is very clunky so far and Opt is very subpar compared to Serum Vision. I'm coming from Esper Control and I feel very limited in the shell. I'll need time to adjust, but so far, it's far away from the god sent deck I was hoping for.
@SCP7 : thanks for the insight. I've added 1 Celestial Purge to the sideboard and I'm considering having 1 Secure the Wastes mainboard.
I wouldn't read too much into your first 5 matches with a new deck... Can you post your list? Maybe there's something in your list causing problems, because UW is undeniably one of the best decks in the format.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
So far, I'm very unimpressed with the deck. In 5 games, I'm 1-4. I've been rolled over by Jund 0-2 three times, there's nothing I can do. I've lost 1-2 to Burn (that doesn't surprise me) but I've won agaisnt Titanshift. The Miracle set up is very clunky so far and Opt is very subpar compared to Serum Vision. I'm coming from Esper Control and I feel very limited in the shell. I'll need time to adjust, but so far, it's far away from the god sent deck I was hoping for.
@SCP7 : thanks for the insight. I've added 1 Celestial Purge to the sideboard and I'm considering having 1 Secure the Wastes mainboard.
I wouldn't read too much into your first 5 matches with a new deck... Can you post your list? Maybe there's something in your list causing problems, because UW is undeniably one of the best decks in the format.
Thanks wraithpk for taking the time to respond to my post. I agree with you : 5 games aren't much. I'm not the best control player, but I'd say I'm above average because I have more than 2 years of experience with various decks (U-Tron, Grixis, Jeskai, Esper, UW). Here's my list, it isn't very far from what we see floating around :
I feel midrange is unwinnable. Aggro matchups without many creatures (like Burn, Zoo, etc.) are very hard, like 40-60. Combo decks rolled me over (Storm was disgusting, Ad Nauseam laughed at me). My sideboard is pretty much all around, that I admit, because I try to cover all the angles.
The 3rd Snapcaster Mage is good, sometimes doesn't serve as nothing else than a body. I've tested 1 Entreat the Angels, it wasn't that bad. The 2nd Mana Leak was good, I'm content with it. Having 2 Spell Snare and 2 Mana Leak for the early game helped a lot. 3 Cryptic and 1 Logic Knot for the late game was good also. The biggest downside I feel with the shell is that sometimes, I'm stuck with Terminus in hands and it's a dead card because I can't set up Jace before I get killed. Also, I don't feel that it's very agressive : it's proactive for sure, not too tapped out, but I'm missing Esper Charm and the discard package from the sideboard coming from Esper (heck, even the Bolt / Snap / Bolt from Jeskai).
I don't want to sound negative about the deck at all : I know it works, everyone is putting up results with it out there. I may have punted some games, had some bad luck, I don't know, but I feel I should get more wins knowing the deck isn't oddly designed and that everyone is pulling ahead with Ws.
Now that I've had some time to play with it, I can tell you that Mission Briefing is bananas in this deck because of how much more consistent it makes the deck on the whole. Smoothes out your draws, finds lands in a pinch, enables terminus and the most important thing is it lets you make informed decisions before flashing back Removal or Counter-Magic which makes it infinitely easier to setup a Planeswalker. So many times I start off looking to flashback a reactive spell (countermagic or removal) and ended up finding a proactive or more efficient answer to the problem instead (like a Jace-Bounce, Tef-Tuck or a sweeper instead of a spot removal) which then let's me flashback something more proactive like an Opt or Cryptic Bounce (and no, the UUUUU1 cost hasn't been an issue, but to be fair I cut the 5th Colorless in anticipation, now just on 4 Field, no GQ).
I started testing with 1 Brief 1 Snap, went to 2 Brief 1 Snap, 2 Brief 2 Snap, 3 Brief 1 snap, and now I'm on 3 Brief 0 Snap and I don't see myself getting off this setup in the foreseeable future. Sometimes you have to cast a dry-brief, just like sometimes you have to cast a dry-snap and I can say that Surveil 2 is better more often than a 2/1 when you need to cast it dry. The reason is pretty simple; if you need to cast it dry you are in desperation mode, either you need land or you need an answer and only one of those 2 upsides (Surveil vs 2/1) can help you get to the card you need faster.
I have a foil Prerelease Mission Briefing that I might have to shove in and try out myself... I totally get what you say that naked Snap (much like naked Briefing) is an act of desperation, and with the amount of removal we have, it seems naked Briefing does a better job digging out of trouble. Not sure what to cut for it (only running 2 Snaps at the moment, and looking to go 1 Brief 2 Snap).
In other news, got my tracking confirmation for Guilds of Ravnica Mythic Edition boxes, so I'll be replacing my two regular Teferi, Hero of Dominaria with some full art alt art foils, just in time for FNM!
In other news, got my tracking confirmation for Guilds of Ravnica Mythic Edition boxes, so I'll be replacing my two regular Teferi, Hero of Dominaria with some full art alt art foils, just in time for FNM!
Jealous.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Spell queller seems some sideboard play. Its ok, but its not great.
Anyone has tested mission briefing here?
I'm thinking about cutting 1 telling time to try 1 or 2 copies, and include 1 copy of noxious revival to reuse terminus that you think?
I do not know if the metagame is going to change so much for Assassins trophy, but aside from spell snare do you see any more additions?
Briefing has been pretty good for me. Most times it's been in my opener I've been glad it wasn't snap. The times it wasn't was against Storm where I really like dry snap on t2 for pressure. It's been great to fuel logic knot and search for azcanta, even had a nifty scenario come up where I wanted to brief-path a guy but after finding a terminus on top I just left the path in the GY and 2 turns later I had exactly enough cards to logic knot a threat due to having 3 more cards in the yard that I would have if brief was a snap. Obviously anecdotal and situational but very good nonetheless.
I haven't played a ton with it in UW, only about 5 matches or so, but I can see it being a staple. Helping to make terminus, azcanta and logic knot more consistent are all things we want to be doing. A 2/1 body is nice, but gimme that sweet surveil. My testing is at 2-1 split between brief and snap currently, but I'll probably end up on just 2-3 briefing eventually. I've always said that there is diminishing returns on snapcasters after copy number 1 of snap in UW but the effect is too powerful to not play at least 2 copies, briefing kind of addresses this.
As far as noxious revival for Terminus goes, its definitely cute, and I'll have to think on it some more because I often play a 1-of gifts Ungiven for value in UW, and noxious in a deck with snap/brief sounds pretty enticing with gifts. Though I've never played gifts in a terminus list, because I'm usually using it to find a pile of sweepers (Verdict, Wrath, DOJ, EE). My initial thought is that Noxious probably isn't good, cards that do nothing on their own often backfire and this one has the additional downside of requiring you to take damage as well which is not something you want to be doing if you're in a position that needs the board to be swept, you're probably under life total pressure already.
I'll probably try it regardless of imagining it's bad. I can imagine an interesting EOT gifts pile of terminus,noxious revival, radical idea and mission briefing being pretty sweet.
Cheers !
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Teferi isn't needed for setting up miracles at all. However, he is absolutely the most decisive game closing walker in control right now. Jace pulls more duty when it comes to setting up miracle triggers - but don't skimp on Teferi. He's pretty much a staple in UWx now for a reason.
Most people who play the deck either go 3/2 Jace/Teferi split, or 2/2.
Have been thinking of just jamming this since it feels like tier 0. It's very forgiving at times, the burn match up is even 50/50. If the meta shifted to hate this deck out what would it look like? 8 rack? Storm?? That's it?
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I played today a fnm of 4 rounds. I won 2-0 to spirits (with luck) and thanks to the terminus. I won Bridgevine 2-1. Won 2-0 to hardened and lost 2-0 vs jund.
I was currently playing 3 Leyline of sanctity to combat combo decks like storm, ad nauseam and burn. But with jund I find many difficulties, the discard hurts, also bloodbraid elf is a 2x1 with great impact, and assassins trophy is also very good.
Should I replace the 3 leylines with other cards for the BGX pairing? Geist of saint traft for example?
Is it time to return to ancestral vision?
Thank you!
Highlights of the night were definitely the two Teferi ultimates. What made them so wonderful is the opponent didn't scoop and made me play it out. I happily drew cards, exiled things, and beat in with Colonnades. My favorite was Jace Brainstorm, find a second Jace, cast it, and Brainstorm again to exile 6 things. Won two games as "flawless victory" opponents with no hand and no permanents.
4x Celestial Colonnade
6x Island
2x Plains
4x Field of Ruin
4x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Fortress
2x Hallowed Fountain
Draw
2x Search for Azcanta
4x Opt
1x Hieroglyphic Illumination
Creatures
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Nimble Obstructionist
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Permission
2x Logic Knot
1x Mana Leak
1x Negate
3x Cryptic Command
2x Spell Snare
Removal
4x Path to Exile
1x Supreme Verdict
4x Terminus
1x Detention Sphere
Misc
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Lyra, Dawnbringer
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Settle the Wreckage
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Dispel
2x Damping Sphere
2x Spell Snare
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
For everyone, I'm kind of having the opposite of what I expected... I'm doing good against combo deck so far, but I'm having a hard time against midrange ? I have a bad game 1 history, gets better post-board, but I usually end up 1-2 against Jund and such. Any advice or experience from your side? Cheers !
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Legacy: UWR Miracles [https://deckstats.net/decks/44442/1092831-uwr-miracles-2]
@SCP7 : thanks for the insight. I've added 1 Celestial Purge to the sideboard and I'm considering having 1 Secure the Wastes mainboard.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Thanks wraithpk for taking the time to respond to my post. I agree with you : 5 games aren't much. I'm not the best control player, but I'd say I'm above average because I have more than 2 years of experience with various decks (U-Tron, Grixis, Jeskai, Esper, UW). Here's my list, it isn't very far from what we see floating around :
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Spells (26)
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Condemn
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Logic Knot
2 Mana Leak
1 Negate
3 Cryptic Command
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Terminus
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Detention Sphere
Lands (24)
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Prairie Stream
2 Dispel
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Damping Sphere
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Negate
1 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Timely Reinforcements
I feel midrange is unwinnable. Aggro matchups without many creatures (like Burn, Zoo, etc.) are very hard, like 40-60. Combo decks rolled me over (Storm was disgusting, Ad Nauseam laughed at me). My sideboard is pretty much all around, that I admit, because I try to cover all the angles.
The 3rd Snapcaster Mage is good, sometimes doesn't serve as nothing else than a body. I've tested 1 Entreat the Angels, it wasn't that bad. The 2nd Mana Leak was good, I'm content with it. Having 2 Spell Snare and 2 Mana Leak for the early game helped a lot. 3 Cryptic and 1 Logic Knot for the late game was good also. The biggest downside I feel with the shell is that sometimes, I'm stuck with Terminus in hands and it's a dead card because I can't set up Jace before I get killed. Also, I don't feel that it's very agressive : it's proactive for sure, not too tapped out, but I'm missing Esper Charm and the discard package from the sideboard coming from Esper (heck, even the Bolt / Snap / Bolt from Jeskai).
I don't want to sound negative about the deck at all : I know it works, everyone is putting up results with it out there. I may have punted some games, had some bad luck, I don't know, but I feel I should get more wins knowing the deck isn't oddly designed and that everyone is pulling ahead with Ws.
Thanks for the help !
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I started testing with 1 Brief 1 Snap, went to 2 Brief 1 Snap, 2 Brief 2 Snap, 3 Brief 1 snap, and now I'm on 3 Brief 0 Snap and I don't see myself getting off this setup in the foreseeable future. Sometimes you have to cast a dry-brief, just like sometimes you have to cast a dry-snap and I can say that Surveil 2 is better more often than a 2/1 when you need to cast it dry. The reason is pretty simple; if you need to cast it dry you are in desperation mode, either you need land or you need an answer and only one of those 2 upsides (Surveil vs 2/1) can help you get to the card you need faster.
In other news, got my tracking confirmation for Guilds of Ravnica Mythic Edition boxes, so I'll be replacing my two regular Teferi, Hero of Dominaria with some full art alt art foils, just in time for FNM!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Jealous.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)