MTG Salvation

Quote from BloodyRabbit_01 »

What are the matchups you’re concerned about?

Primarily combo, but I'm also curious which matchups I need to side out Teferi and Jace.

Thanks for the heads up though - going to give it a look!

Quote from javierillo_am »

Hi,

I've been playing UW, I'm happy with the deck but many times you need a clock before turn 5 or 6 with Lyra or Elspeth. Two questions about this:

-Do you think that Entreat the angels or secure the wastes is better? I have been playing secure the wastes, and although it is very good it is also slow and it is not definitive until I put 7-8 tokens.

-What do you think of monastery mentor in the side? I played it in Esper and usually in second games the opponent usually removes the removal ... and with the theft of the deck it can be a clock. What do you think?

At the moment I've been running Entreat the Angels and I like it a lot more than Secure the Wastes... It's a card that you don't feel bad brainstorming away and it isn't as much a dead card on top of the library as secure the wastes.. plus it closes the game a lot quicker and more efficiently

On the topic of finishers, I've been running white sun's zenith because of instant speed capabilities while also shuffling itself back in, to be searched out again by the engine of azcanta jace and teferi. It has often been vital in closing games for me, in part due to the fact that the tokens are 2/2s instead of 1/1s. I dont think anyone here will test it; but Im saying dont be opposed, because I have used zenith defensively at one stage of the game and then offensively when my mana reserves were extensive.

Please don't get sucked into the chromium hype; using a land slot for Swamp that is effectively Wastes in 90%+ of your matchups and 33-50% of mirror matches (preboard games) is abysmal deckbuilding. Perhaps the idea of using a singleton swamp and/or singleton black dual in the main with only 4 field and an extra fetch or two in polluted delta to facilitate something in the main like 3rd color for Engineered Explosives or flashback on a singleton lingering souls, or take less damage through a dismember or something could be acceptable, and maybe then you could justify chromium in the side. But even then, chromium is just a bad sideboard card; even if it was the Ace in the hole for the mirror (It's not), you can't afford to use 2 sideboard slots for a single matchup.

Agreed. If Chromium was on color he might be worth trying, but having to run a basic Swamp in your UW deck to play him is just so bad. I honestly don't even think he's that good, I would rather try something like Pearl Lake Ancient or Nezahal as a mirror breaker, or Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for some cute tech.

Lol at that point why not just splash green and run Thrun... haha just kidding..
I think the mirror is just a matter of who can be patient longer and who gains better card advantage and consistently hits land drops.. I don't think you really need sideboard tech besides Dispel and additional counter magic tbh

If control starts to become really popular, it'll probably be worth a single SB slot for a haymaker. I was playing Twin back in 2015 when it was like 12% of the meta, and a lot of people played a single Cavern of Souls and a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir in the SB as mirror tech. Control has never had to do that in Modern before, but control's never been as good as it is right now, so it was never worth devoting a SB slot for like 4% of the meta. If UW and Jeskai combine for 12%+, it might be worth a slot.

So in testing the creature Teferi + Cavern idea, it's already paid off against Storm, lol. The Cavern anyways. Opponent had a pretty big Storm count going, casts Pieces of the Puzzle and reveals Empty the Warrens, casts a ritual to get up to 4 mana so he can cast it, and I V Clique off the Cavern. He has to just cycle his Remand since he can't counter it, and I see a hand with the Empty and just a couple more rituals. I wasn't really expecting the idea to have much application outside of the mirror, but Cavern is confirmed good against Storm, lol.

How would you guys modify maindeck/sideboard for a meta with lots of Burn? In Texas it's common to have a 40-50 person PPTQ be 25-30% Burn players.

Quote from gkourou »

RE: How to break the UW Mirror,
@WPK, Twin had several Wizards/Faeries to name with Cavern though, because of the tappers. I am not convinced here. Instead, I would play what's in my deck above if I wanted to beat the mirror, or try Rabbit's 3rd clique idea. BTW, isn't the legendary rule a problem here, @Rabbit?

Pestermite and Exarch aren't wizards, though. Some games you would name Fairy or Cleric for the combo piece, but most games I was naming wizard for Snap, Clique, Lavamancer (when I ran them), and the sideboard Teferi. It was pretty much the same number of wizards as I'm playing in UW, just minus one Snap. Also, if you want more 3/1 fliers, I would play a copy or two of Nimble Obstructionist instead of going to 3 Cliques because of the legendary rule. Stifle does have some interesting applications in Modern.

Quote from BloodyRabbit_01 »

@Teferi

If you want to play a singleton in the board, I’m not opposing you. But, as someone else already noticed, Cavern of Souls has little application in our deck, so I wouldn’t certainly play it. Especially given how many colorless lands we already run. I have sometimes problems in presenting turn four Cryptic, because FoR is actually a fetch only if you spend a turn activating it, and I run the full set only because they are too great of a spell. Cavern is a no-no.

I'm playing the Cavern in the last land slot. It would most likely be a Ghost Quarter otherwise, so I'm not making a trade-off on colored mana. It might be too cute, but I thought it was worth a try. That last land slot is either going to be a Ghost Quarter, a 5th blue fetch, or some other utility land, so it being colorless isn't that big a deal.

Quote from Man0warr1 »

How would you guys modify maindeck/sideboard for a meta with lots of Burn? In Texas it's common to have a 40-50 person PPTQ be 25-30% Burn players.

Run a maindeck copy of Timely Reinforcements and another 2 in the board. Don't run maindeck Cliques to shut off their Searing Blaze. Run a main deck copy of Chad of the Trials. Maybe Leyline of Sanctity in the board.

Quote from Man0warr1 »

How would you guys modify maindeck/sideboard for a meta with lots of Burn? In Texas it's common to have a 40-50 person PPTQ be 25-30% Burn players.

like wraith said, no copies of clique MD. though i'd probably play 2 MD timely, or 1 timely 1 gideon of the trials at least. another copy of timely in the side with a baneslayer/lyra (or both) on top of the generic counter magic. the matchup should be fairly solid after that, even if they are bringing in exquisite firecrafts.

Quote from gkourou »

@Wraith, thing is that in Twin you used to play 4 Snapcaster Mage and 2 V. Cliques, most times mainboard. Plus a teferi in the sb. But you could also name faeries. There was flexibility in there and more snaps.
Still, I don't love cavern now. Think of field of ruins as well that can destroy it.

Sure, Field can kill it, but then they have one fewer Fields for our Azcantas or Colonnades. I was leaning towards running a GQ in the 25th land slot, but that would mostly just be for Tron and Valakut, so if UW and Jeskai are combining to be more of the meta than Tron and Valakut, maybe it's worth the slot?

In other news, I finally played my first mirror match on mtgo, and creature Teferi was as good as I was hoping he'd be. My opponent tapped low to resolve a Teferi planeswalker, and I flashed creature Teferi in on his end step in response to the land untap trigger. No Cavern, just had to wait to resolve him fairly. That let me also Snap Opt after Teferi resolved, untap and resolve a Jace, and kill his Teferi with mine and the Snap. He actually had 2 Paths and a Snap in hand, but he couldn't kill Teferi because I had the counters in hand and he couldn't counter back. Even if he had eventually killed him, I think the advantage swing I got from him would have made it worth it. As it was, he never resolved another spell the rest of the game and conceded. Definitely worth more testing.

I'm already playing 2 maindeck Cliques.

most lists im seeing with at least 3 terminus are on a 3-2 jace teferi split. there are occasional 3-1 splits, with fewer 2-2.

i played 2-2 myself and never felt the need to add the 3rd jace; though admittedly i wasnt exactly tuning the list extensively but rather testing the concept of UW miracles in general.

the way i see it, no matter how good people are 'discovering' jace to be after all these months, teferi is still a monster at shutting the door on close games. he is simply more versatile than jace. maybe my perspective is slightly different from playing jeskai control, but dropping below 2 teferi seems like a step backwards.

the fact that teferi can interact with opposing walkers is also increasingly relevant.

Quote from BloodyRabbit_01 »

Yeah, but I’m advocating for playing three of them postboard. Granted, it’s not the only way we could choose, but it’s flexible in BOTH fighting Combo/Control AND dealing with annoying cards in the Tempo/Aggro mu (Affinity stuff, opposing Quellers, kills Shadow players fast + target Denial at instant speed, race Burn etcetera).

Clique is probably more versatile across different matchups, but Teferi is more impactful against anyone running counter spells. Clique just gets to look at their hand and maybe take a card, but Teferi reads: Your opponent can't cast counter spells. Even if they have more Paths in hand than you have counters to protect him with when it goes back to their turn, you still got a turn where you could resolve anything you want and your opponent can't counter them. Turning your opponent's counter spells into dead draws in a control mirror is lights out. The Cavern to pair with him might be too cute, but I think Teferi is a very reasonable card if you want a single slot to give you an edge in counter spell mirrors.

So check it homies... Instead of 2 mb cliques, how about a split between clique and Gideon of the trials. Helps out much more in burn matchup, faster clock against Tron, shuts down a valakut on the field and prime time, and shuts down ad naus.

Yeah, can someone explain to me why people moved away from Gideon of the Trials?

Aggressive and midrange decks started to go wide, such as humans and pyromancer. Path is also the most played removal spell. This hasn't changed and won't but i can't ignore the versatility trials offers. I remember when they printed him I thought, "this is what control needed". He's not stellar in every matchup... But he's a clock that offers something useful for each matchup. Sometimes something extremely useful. Also it helps having diverse threats and can be grabbed with search for azcanta.

Quote from BloodyRabbit_01 »

@Clique vs Teferi

Yes, I already specified the advantages in playing Teferi. Thing is, even against Control, you’re definitely not sure they aren’t going to have Path to fight it, or Jace unsummon, or Teferi back on the top, or Detention Sphere. There are so many ways to dispose of it, even postside, cause you’re never going to cut Walkers, Spheres and all the Paths. I was never satisfied when I tested it. Anyway, my point is still the same: flexibility > specific answer. If you enjoy it, I won’t be the one who’s going to tell you not to play it.

Sure, but the point is that he lets you untap and resolve whatever you want. Pick a fight on your opponent's end step, if they win the fight they probably spend all their counters and tap out, and if you win the fight they can't cast anything on your turn. He's a bigger threat than a Clique. Your opponent can let you just resolve a Clique and look at his hand, maybe bottom a counter spell, but they can't let you resolve Teferi.

So I played a mirror match at my LGS today, and my opponent was running Chromium in his sideboard. Not impressed. He won game 2 with him, but he was kinda already winning the game because he had an uncontested Azcanta for several turns, so it just felt like a win-more. In game 3, I Fielded his Sunken Hollow and Ghost Quartered his basic Swamp, and so of course he got punished and drew the Chromium, which was uncastable then. If I was going to splash black for a sideboard card that's good in the mirror, I think I would rather just play Lingering Souls. Unfortunately, I was not brave and didn't try my Cavern of Souls + Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir idea in paper, because it would have been pretty nuts in that matchup.