I prefer Runded Halo as it is more versatile. It's very nice versus Bogles, Valakut, Dredge and so much more.
This. Meddling Mage is terrible in this deck because it dies to easily and isn't really much of a threat. Now if Vendilion Clique and Meddling Mage are your only options, I'm taking Clique all the way. Clique does more for you. Yea you can't shut down their combo but it gives you the information about what to play around, gives you a bigger clock, and is a much better blocker if needed.
is a great card for game 2 and game 3 where opponent SB out some removal (assuming you play few creatures main)
Except Runed Halo won't get hit by that removal anyways unless its Abrupt Decay somehow. =D
I get that Mage attacks, but Halo's just much broader and more resiliant.
I prefer Runded Halo as it is more versatile. It's very nice versus Bogles, Valakut, Dredge and so much more.
This. Meddling Mage is terrible in this deck because it dies to easily and isn't really much of a threat. Now if Vendilion Clique and Meddling Mage are your only options, I'm taking Clique all the way. Clique does more for you. Yea you can't shut down their combo but it gives you the information about what to play around, gives you a bigger clock, and is a much better blocker if needed.
is a great card for game 2 and game 3 where opponent SB out some removal (assuming you play few creatures main)
Except Runed Halo won't get hit by that removal anyways unless its Abrupt Decay somehow. =D
I get that Mage attacks, but Halo's just much broader and more resiliant.
True, but halo wont prevent a Jace from Brainstorming, or a liliana from discard /etc...
I think it is a problem, when the creature is a Bird, Hierarch or even a Dark Confidant. I'm not that big of a fan to kill the mana creatures, but Oust them was mostly a good thing as they normally don't want to re-draw it. Pathing Confindant is really bad just because you have to do it in your turn and Jund really likes beeing ramped for T3. There maybe some other situation, where it is really bad, but mostly I do agree, that the upsides of Path are way better for this kind of deck than the downsides, especially when you overload on these effects with Settle and Field.
UW is favored vs most bird decks. Who cares if they play a bird unless it's ponza with a sick curve. But I do agree path is a terrible card vs rock decks. But even with path as the removal spell vs rock decks the match up is very close.
I guess to clarify. Path does have downsides. But I think a bigger weakness of the deck is lack of good 2 cmc counters.
Yeah, that is abolutely right, but I'm sure they will not give us Counterpell, which would be fine for the format I think so maybe some kind of fatal push Counter? But again, I don't expect them to do that anytime soon. Something what I would like in the format would be an Unexpectedly Absent, which could be really shut down some of the bad situations this deck could face. For lifegain, you mostly need something that is added to another effect. I do play 1-2 Blessed Alliance Main as well as one Sphinx's Revelation for these reasons, but mostly other cards would be more effective if I wouldn't value the lifegain part of these cards.
Prohibit is a "fatal push" counter, but it's probably not playable. miscalculation could be interesting, but it's probably more playable in the control decks without path.
UW has the tools to crush creature decks with settle the wreckage, oust, condemn, terminus, etc...
UW has the tools to he favored vs combo with all the various blue counter spells.
But when you try to make a balanced deck, trying to beat fair and unfair decks. It's the counter spell suite that's the weakest, as they are all situational, until you hit 3/4 mana(but none of the 3 mana counters are worth playing).
I think this deck will see more improvement from getting a better counterspell than getting a 1 cmc removal spell.
I think it is a problem, when the creature is a Bird, Hierarch or even a Dark Confidant. I'm not that big of a fan to kill the mana creatures, but Oust them was mostly a good thing as they normally don't want to re-draw it. Pathing Confindant is really bad just because you have to do it in your turn and Jund really likes beeing ramped for T3. There maybe some other situation, where it is really bad, but mostly I do agree, that the upsides of Path are way better for this kind of deck than the downsides, especially when you overload on these effects with Settle and Field.
UW is favored vs most bird decks. Who cares if they play a bird unless it's ponza with a sick curve. But I do agree path is a terrible card vs rock decks. But even with path as the removal spell vs rock decks the match up is very close.
I guess to clarify. Path does have downsides. But I think a bigger weakness of the deck is lack of good 2 cmc counters.
Yeah, that is abolutely right, but I'm sure they will not give us Counterpell, which would be fine for the format I think so maybe some kind of fatal push Counter? But again, I don't expect them to do that anytime soon. Something what I would like in the format would be an Unexpectedly Absent, which could be really shut down some of the bad situations this deck could face. For lifegain, you mostly need something that is added to another effect. I do play 1-2 Blessed Alliance Main as well as one Sphinx's Revelation for these reasons, but mostly other cards would be more effective if I wouldn't value the lifegain part of these cards.
Prohibit is a "fatal push" counter, but it's probably not playable. miscalculation could be interesting, but it's probably more playable in the control decks without path.
UW has the tools to crush creature decks with settle the wreckage, oust, condemn, terminus, etc...
UW has the tools to he favored vs combo with all the various blue counter spells.
But when you try to make a balanced deck, trying to beat fair and unfair decks. It's the counter spell suite that's the weakest, as they are all situational, until you hit 3/4 mana(but none of the 3 mana counters are worth playing).
I think this deck will see more improvement from getting a better counterspell than getting a 1 cmc removal spell.
I agree. I was doing some homebrew testing with what is basically Path to Counterspell for WU and it felt like that was the missing piece.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Yeah for sure. I think you need something to counter with 2 mana that costs 3 or 4 mana and isn't dead late. Prohibit is basically unplayable because it cannot counter Lili and that is mostly gameover... I do run more Counters than most UW lists with 1 Snare, 3 Knot and 1-2 Negate but it is definitly not good enough. Maybe a reverse Countersquall but that is just a nuance. UU counter target spell with Cmc 3 may be okay but not really. Counterspell is what we need.
I'm so tempted to bring us to that terrible place of custom card discussion, lol*.
*Not that it's a terrible place per se, but probably when it happens in Established Modern.
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WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
It can't be fully recreated because we don't have moat. Teferi's moat is terrible, and ensnaring bridge doesn't work as well when you're drawing lots of cards.
We're also missing the mana drains/counterspells and the ivory towers, among other things.
You'll notice though, that by and large the list of cards you mentioned are already extensively played in modern. If you want to do something remotely similar, just play draw-go. There are some draw-go lists farther back here I'm sure, there are plenty on the esper thread, there are some on the jeskai thread.
You do have to remember that control decks are a product of their metagames, and of their cardpool. Neither of these things are the same for us as they were for weissman, so some things will have to evolve. We have to play much more removal, because we have no moat, because we have no counterspell, and because modern magic is way more creature heavy than it used to be. The same goes for a number of other differences.
I'm fairly certain The Deck would lose to GW Company. Creature-piles were an afterthought in those days. Now, creature decks are the rule, not the exception. You couldn't get away with 4 Path and 2 Moats.
A better comparison today is UW Miracles, where a small number of infinity-CA effects (Counterbalance), hold off combo decks, while the maindeck is warped to dominate the aggro-centric format as a whole. Cards like Runed Halo fall just a bit short of generating Game 1 auto-wins against enough combo decks.
I'm not sure of what I say but with the hard matchup we have against aggro creature decks like B/R hollow one or decks that play BBE should we consider playing ghostly prison? At least 2 in SB can be a good idea I guess.
I'm thinking about a UW control with 4 ghostly prison and 4 exhaustion and I think that it can be great!
I prefer Runded Halo as it is more versatile. It's very nice versus Bogles, Valakut, Dredge and so much more.
This. Meddling Mage is terrible in this deck because it dies to easily and isn't really much of a threat. Now if Vendilion Clique and Meddling Mage are your only options, I'm taking Clique all the way. Clique does more for you. Yea you can't shut down their combo but it gives you the information about what to play around, gives you a bigger clock, and is a much better blocker if needed.
I decided to go with 2 Clique in the sideboard. I feel it's very relevant for the information and disrupting combo also. The clock is great too. I'm glad I added it to the 75 as I'm 4-1 since I have them!
You guys could help me? Like 1-2 weeks I saw a UW Tempo list that I really liked but now I can't find it, I remember some cards from the decklist, so if you could recognize the decklist and post the decklist I would be very grateful.
? Restoration Angel
? Blade Splicer
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Wall of Omens
? Vendilion Clique
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
? Cryptic Command
? Spell Snare
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Oust
The question mark means I don't remember the number of copies neither
I don't know what list you're referring too but if I had to make a guess at this, I'd say that your number would probably look something like this:
With these number, You'd get to 26 lands in the deck. the numbers would be +/- somewhere depending on the land count you are looking for. I run a similar list with 25 lands and no Snapcaster Mage and no 1 mana cantrips.
I've updated my list since I last posted. I have been tinkering with the numbers and trying some new stuff out. Currently, I'm pretty happy with the list but I am probably looking to change a couple of cards around still.
I'm not super excited about the Sideboard right now. I would like to make some changes to it but I'm not exactly sure what I would change yet. I'm also not thrilled with the counter suite either but I'm not sure what I'd change to. I'd have to do a little more thinking on the deck as a whole. So far this list has been running super well for me.
Why no 2 Snapcaster Mage? I see the deck is more midrange and blinking things is a good strategy for value, I'm wondering if you might miss sometimes having snap to recur a valuable spell?
Sometimes yes but most of the time no. I felt like Snapcaster Mage was the worst card in the deck. Most of the time, the spells he would flash back are just Path to Exile and honestly, I don't feel it's that important. I feel like I can find an alternative solution to the problem at hand.
I'm more and more disapointed with Field of Ruin. I know that the general consensus is that it's great, but I feel GQ is okay and I find myself in more situation that I find GQ more useful thant Ruin. I'm at a 2/1 split right now.
A little while back—just before the Mind Sculptor and BBE unbans, if memory serves—Pierre Dagen (who was running UWC at the pro tour) said that Field of Ruin shared the title of best card in Modern alongside Thoughtseize. I don’t feel qualified to make such an assessment, but I certainly share Dagen’s positivity about the card. Land destruction that doesn’t set us back on actual land drops (while gaining us a few percentage points against Blood Moon) is an absolute dream come true for this deck.
That said, Ghost Quarter is still good for us, especially if you have Crucible in your 75 and/or face Inkmoth Nexus decks with high frequency. Most people would agree that our deck can support up to five colorless lands, if you want to give a 4/1 Field/GQ split or something similar a shot.
GP Hartford was quite a poor showing for Control in general and UW in particular. Still, I’m not prepared to say that the sky is falling just yet. The meta is still far from settled, and so long as that’s the case, linear decks will shoulder control decks out of some percentage of their former meta share. The best thing we can do for now IMO is stick to a proactive game plan, which means Spreading Seas and Field of Ruin are your friends (maybe even GQ and Crucible as well!).
I run a 4/1 split (Field of Ruin / Ghost Quarter) in my deck along with Moorland Haunt and Calciform Pools. I think FoR is either simply amazing or below average. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground for it. With that being said, my deck is also quite different than the rest of the UW decks floating around. I play a more proactive version of the deck allowing me to close out the game and control the game in which ever order suites best for the match up.
Again, I can't tell you what to do but I would Highly recommend trying my version of the deck and see what you think. In the meta right now, it seems to be performing pretty well. I am currently running a list with (2) Blessed Alliance in the main and I had been considering taking them out for Reality Shift but with the resurgence of Bogles, I'll leave them as Blessed Alliance for now
I always play at least 2 Blessed Alliances in my 75, and I also prefer them mainboard (tho when I switched over to Wall after BBE was unbanned, Alliance got kicked to the board).
A little while back—just before the Mind Sculptor and BBE unbans, if memory serves—Pierre Dagen (who was running UWC at the pro tour) said that Field of Ruin shared the title of best card in Modern alongside Thoughtseize. I don’t feel qualified to make such an assessment, but I certainly share Dagen’s positivity about the card.
I think there was a very short period, when FoR wasn't on many people's rader where it was definitely a contender for best card. Remember when Tron used to run 2 basics and we were like 90% favorite in the match-up? Ahh, the glory days lol
People adapted pretty quickly though, and I actually don't feel like FoR is very good at playing the Mana denial game. I think we either need some number of tectonic edge in conjunction with spreading seas, or we should be giving up spreading seas and just using FoR as utility land denial, essentially giving up the Mana denial plan.
I've been playing around with <4 FoR and >1 tectonic edge because I'm not ready to get off the spreading seas plan yet. Feels okay, but nothing I'm particularly happy with yet.
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Except Runed Halo won't get hit by that removal anyways unless its Abrupt Decay somehow. =D
I get that Mage attacks, but Halo's just much broader and more resiliant.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
True, but halo wont prevent a Jace from Brainstorming, or a liliana from discard /etc...
I like both and play 1 of each by the way.
UW is favored vs most bird decks. Who cares if they play a bird unless it's ponza with a sick curve. But I do agree path is a terrible card vs rock decks. But even with path as the removal spell vs rock decks the match up is very close.
I guess to clarify. Path does have downsides. But I think a bigger weakness of the deck is lack of good 2 cmc counters.
Prohibit is a "fatal push" counter, but it's probably not playable. miscalculation could be interesting, but it's probably more playable in the control decks without path.
UW has the tools to crush creature decks with settle the wreckage, oust, condemn, terminus, etc...
UW has the tools to he favored vs combo with all the various blue counter spells.
But when you try to make a balanced deck, trying to beat fair and unfair decks. It's the counter spell suite that's the weakest, as they are all situational, until you hit 3/4 mana(but none of the 3 mana counters are worth playing).
I think this deck will see more improvement from getting a better counterspell than getting a 1 cmc removal spell.
I agree. I was doing some homebrew testing with what is basically Path to Counterspell for WU and it felt like that was the missing piece.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I'm so tempted to bring us to that terrible place of custom card discussion, lol*.
*Not that it's a terrible place per se, but probably when it happens in Established Modern.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
As you can see below, we already have some cards in Modern that is more or less what the original cards in "The Deck" does.
Moat = Teferi's Moat
Swords to Plowshare = Path to Exile
Jayemdae Tome = Jace TMS
Disrupting Scepter = Jace TMS
Strip Mine = Field of Ruin
Braingeyser = Sphinx's Revelation
Recall = Snapcaster Mage
Regrowth = Snapcaster Mage
Let me know your thoughts.
We're also missing the mana drains/counterspells and the ivory towers, among other things.
You'll notice though, that by and large the list of cards you mentioned are already extensively played in modern. If you want to do something remotely similar, just play draw-go. There are some draw-go lists farther back here I'm sure, there are plenty on the esper thread, there are some on the jeskai thread.
You do have to remember that control decks are a product of their metagames, and of their cardpool. Neither of these things are the same for us as they were for weissman, so some things will have to evolve. We have to play much more removal, because we have no moat, because we have no counterspell, and because modern magic is way more creature heavy than it used to be. The same goes for a number of other differences.
A better comparison today is UW Miracles, where a small number of infinity-CA effects (Counterbalance), hold off combo decks, while the maindeck is warped to dominate the aggro-centric format as a whole. Cards like Runed Halo fall just a bit short of generating Game 1 auto-wins against enough combo decks.
I'm thinking about a UW control with 4 ghostly prison and 4 exhaustion and I think that it can be great!
I decided to go with 2 Clique in the sideboard. I feel it's very relevant for the information and disrupting combo also. The clock is great too. I'm glad I added it to the 75 as I'm 4-1 since I have them!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I don't know what list you're referring too but if I had to make a guess at this, I'd say that your number would probably look something like this:
2 Restoration Angel
2 Blade Splicer
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
With these number, You'd get to 26 lands in the deck. the numbers would be +/- somewhere depending on the land count you are looking for. I run a similar list with 25 lands and no Snapcaster Mage and no 1 mana cantrips.
4 Wall of Omens
4 Blade Splicer
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Restoration Angel
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Planeswalkers:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Enchantments:
3 Spreading Seas
1 Detention Sphere
Instant/Sorcery:
2 Blessed Alliance
4 Path to Exile
3 Cryptic command
2 Logic Knot
2 Spell Snare
2 Negate
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Moorland Haunt
4 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Mystic Gate
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Calciform Pools
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Dispel
2 Ceremonious Rejecton
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Disenchant
2 Rest In Peace
1 Stony Silence
2 Runed Halo
2 Settle the Wreckage
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Crucible of Worlds
I'm not super excited about the Sideboard right now. I would like to make some changes to it but I'm not exactly sure what I would change yet. I'm also not thrilled with the counter suite either but I'm not sure what I'd change to. I'd have to do a little more thinking on the deck as a whole. So far this list has been running super well for me.
I tried Azor, the Lawbringer in the deck but that felt like a "Win More" kind of card and didn't really help anywhere in particular. He was cool against Temur Scapeshift but not all that great. I am Interested in exploring that slot with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir spot though. Previously that was Gideon Jura. I've also considered Batterskull, Baneslayer Angel, Vendilion Clique #2, and some other nonsense like Entreat the Angels.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I'm skeptical that flash is enough to mitigate the targeting restriction to put this ahead of Journey to Nowhere, which doesn't get played.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
That said, Ghost Quarter is still good for us, especially if you have Crucible in your 75 and/or face Inkmoth Nexus decks with high frequency. Most people would agree that our deck can support up to five colorless lands, if you want to give a 4/1 Field/GQ split or something similar a shot.
GP Hartford was quite a poor showing for Control in general and UW in particular. Still, I’m not prepared to say that the sky is falling just yet. The meta is still far from settled, and so long as that’s the case, linear decks will shoulder control decks out of some percentage of their former meta share. The best thing we can do for now IMO is stick to a proactive game plan, which means Spreading Seas and Field of Ruin are your friends (maybe even GQ and Crucible as well!).
Again, I can't tell you what to do but I would Highly recommend trying my version of the deck and see what you think. In the meta right now, it seems to be performing pretty well. I am currently running a list with (2) Blessed Alliance in the main and I had been considering taking them out for Reality Shift but with the resurgence of Bogles, I'll leave them as Blessed Alliance for now
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I think there was a very short period, when FoR wasn't on many people's rader where it was definitely a contender for best card. Remember when Tron used to run 2 basics and we were like 90% favorite in the match-up? Ahh, the glory days lol
People adapted pretty quickly though, and I actually don't feel like FoR is very good at playing the Mana denial game. I think we either need some number of tectonic edge in conjunction with spreading seas, or we should be giving up spreading seas and just using FoR as utility land denial, essentially giving up the Mana denial plan.
I've been playing around with <4 FoR and >1 tectonic edge because I'm not ready to get off the spreading seas plan yet. Feels okay, but nothing I'm particularly happy with yet.