I agree with Tlhunter07 - Spell Snare can't really compete for space with cards like Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, Mindbreak Trap, Surgical Extraction Etc. SB space is at a premium. I don't hate it as much in the main as most do though, I think it's really only bad vs Shadow and Tron variants, with the former being a good match and the latter being a great to fine match depending on the presence of Eldrazi or blue Mana.
I do like my spell snares in esper, but definitely agree, its a main or nothing card. Very rarely does it overlap in a way you want. Its often better to find a different split of cards that are more impactful where you need.
I mean, its playable, but it doesn't strike me as all that good.
They can often hit you with a single grapeshot, or once with a reducer too finish you off, and you still have to find an answer for empty if they go that way. They can always remand their own grapeshot and kill you the following turn too.
I've changed up my deck quite a bit, and I'm finding disallow and spell snare to be pretty good right now against all the combo and aggro decks. 24 lands has been totally fine for me and I still lose to flooding and / or not drawing a verdict the entire match more than anything else. I swear there is also a conspiracy to always have Sphinx Rev in my opening hand or be the first card I draw. Edit: I tried a 2nd Jace, but tapping out on turn 4 equals death too many times lately and I think I'd rather just have another counterspell instead.
Sphinx's Revelation isn't going to be that good for you with 24 lands. One of the guys in the UW Midrange/Control FB group has been having a lot of success with two Glimmer of Genius with 24 lands in his deck.
I haven't been playing much last couple days, mostly due to my lecture schedule, but also because of the impending changes that are coming with Ixalan. I can't be bothered changing up cards to try to fix the Storm matchup when I feel like the deck is going to be changing a fair amount in the coming weeks.
I do like both lists from SCG last weekend. The 10th place list with 24 land and no Rev seems interesting and the first place in the classic is running 3 snaps and a clique. I think I would run a mashup of the two right now, clique would allow us to play the draw go game a little better which I think is important with how much storm is running rampant, at least online. I think people under value clique because of our relative lack of targets for removal. But I think Cliques ETB is strong enough to overcome that, and in light of the fact that it's probably going to get killed, I actually don't mind 2 in the main right now.
Slowgod, Disallow is interesting, how has it felt compared to say a 2nd negate?
So, how does everyone approach the Storm matchup? I have 3 Quellers in the board, and they definitely do work, but game one is pretty unwinnable and playing G3 on the draw (assuming I take game 2) can be rough. Is it right to bring in both of my Celestial Purges here? My opp sidestepped me last time by boarding out some Electromancers and not boarding in Blood Moon, claiming that he doesn't like it against a 2-color deck. But I feel like this isn't the most popular approach. Nevertheless, each of the past few times I've played against Storm I lost, and it feels like it's close to 40-60 in their favor -- mostly due to mana screw to be honest.
Is Cryptic any good in games 2/3 when they play Remand, Swan Song, etc.? Do I want bothDetention Spheres for games 2/3, or just 1 copy? How many Verdicts should I keep in post board? (I've been keeping in 2 or 3.)
Has anyone had a chance to check out Frank Karsten's newest article on the checklands (Glacial Fortress)? I recommend you do, it reinforces in a drastic way why I've been recommending the 4th Glacial Fortress. To sum it up, in our deck we have a 84-96% chance of it coming into play untapped on the turn we need it too (T2-4 for wrath). I ran some hypergeometric calculations previous to his article, and I knew it to be good, but my understanding of math is obviously not on his level, turns out it's better than I thought! Mainly only because we don't really care about the times we are forced to play it tapped on T1 because we play Path and not Push, but still.
@Annilator - Storm is hard deck to sideboard for because they don't seem to be consistent on how they sideboard against us. I talked to one storm player who told me he boards out Past in Flames to brick our RIPs and he just value Gifts since the match is easy enough already. I feel like the Empty plan is pretty bad against us, and I rarely lose to it (I lose ~3,4 turns later to grapeshot, usually) so I'm not sure why some of them are on bringing more empties in against us. Maybe it forces us to react long enough to let them set up? In any case, I feel like Queller is the best answer because it's also good filler in other matches, and I've been on 4 in the board recently, but I still don't feel like I'm even at 40% win rate yet. I've been tempted to try out Mindbreak Trap, I just hate that it's narrow. I've also found that some storm opponents will have bolts post board because they expect Queller and clique, and in those instances Queller feels abysmal. If you find something that works, let us know!
I am considering building a UW control list as I like this archetype a lot.
From reading you, Storm seems to be very problematic. Is Rule of law too expensive? Of course it is a non-bo with Snap but they just can't win anymore... Do they have any permanent bounce in the sideboard?
Rule of law is a little slow, and I don't mean just expensive; The fact that it's sorcery speed means sometimes you'll cast it in T3, have it remanded and then die. On the play you often have to risk tapping out on T3 anyways, they don't always have the remand and they don't always have the ability to go off, and they often tapout for a reducer, so it's probably fine in the first sideboard game (since you almost assuredly lost game 1) but it's probably too slow on the draw. I've never had one cast against me, but they do run echoing truth. My guess is they bring it in for Rule of Law if they see it game 2,
So, do you guys think I should wait a few weeks before buying my pieces for the deck just in case we find changes we like with the new cards/meta changes? 90% of the cost is Colonnade for me, but if we move away from stuff like Jace I'd rather save the money, ya know?
Also, I've seen a few decks running Shadow of Doubt as a one-of in the main. It seems a lot better in draw-go shells, but it still might be interesting to test since it hits Storm, Chord decks, Tron, etc.
Lot of posts all of a sudden! I beat storm the last 3 times I played it with my current list, even after getting T2 emptied for 10 in game 1. Disallow has been awesome, mostly just used it as a hard counter and haven't needed to counter a storm trigger yet. Runed Halo has been so good that I might have to start playing 2 in the 75. Shadow of Doubt and Spell Snare are 2 1-ofs that have really shined for me as well. Nothing like playing Island on turn 1 on the draw and countering Baral, Thalia, Steel Overseer, chalice for 1, etc etc.
I just looked at those lists from SCG last night, seems like clique is making it's way into the main more often. I've been thinking about that for awhile since I bring it in for so many matchups and it's always great to know what's in your opponent's hand. It's only awkward when you need to verdict after playing it. I like the 1st place list from the classic quite a bit, 3 snaps and a clique instead of the 2 walls seems reasonable, also like the runed halo in the mainboard of the 8th place deck!
I don't think the deck will change a ton unless we go all in with Gideons, Jaces and Elspeths or something (not a bad idea maybe) I'm thinking we will probably just go to 5-6 gideons, maybe an opt or 2 and possibly that legendary enchantment, but the land side of it will probably get destroyed a lot, but that's 1 less destroyed colonnade I suppose. Didn't even realize how close we are to the new rules going live!
edit: just played against a guy using opt in modern, not sure if this means the new PW rule is in effect on MTGO also? Can't find any info about it.
Yeah I figured it out last night too, All is Dust still sucks but otherwise it seems pretty hard to lose. I still only have 3 Gideons in my deck, but I'm going to get at least 1 AOZ for the next league. I think sideboarding is going to change a lot, I feel like we don't ever want to take out Gideons anymore? Can storm still kill us in 1 turn if they need to take care of 15+ loyalty first? This definitely changes everything.
Yeah I should have been more clear, I'm mostly thinking about games 2 and 3 when you have a plan for their GY or sometimes they sided out past in flames. Normally I take out 2-3 Gideons, but now I'm not sure if that's right. Nassif is currently streaming an Esper deck with 2 GotT and 2 Juras, but he said he still thinks AOZ is bad even with the new rule. I'm trying to decide what to add to my deck at the moment, opt and/or more Gideons.
I'm on 3 Trials 1 Jura main with 1 AOZ in the board. I like access to the AOZ for some matchups for testing purposes, not sure it will stay in the board as those are premium slots though. I've also been thinking that if I move to 4 Serum and 3-4 Opt that I might drop down to 2 Trials since in theory we should find it more often, but it might be wrong. I feel like Trials is just the best card in the deck and every game I don't have one it is sorely missed.
Slowgod - I actually don't mind Gideon Trials against Storm just as a 3 mana threat. I want to go up on the number of Dispel out of the sideboard so that Gideon of Trials can be dropped safely around T4 more often. But yes, I think if you have a RIP out, a couple Gideons might be hard to get through for storm. Warrens isn't great against us anyways, and they aren't going to be grapeshotting for more than 10ish without access to the yard consistently. I usually find they have to Storm off and grapeshot me about 3 times to kill me when I have a RIP out (**edit - usually its twice in 1 turn via remand, and then they polish off the remainder of my life another turn with a grapeshot for somewhere between 5-8).
I posted my new list on the facebook group, seems like a lot of people are talking there, but I changed up my deck and SB quite a bit again. I tried something pretty "normal" yesterday and went 4-1 and then 1-3 drop. I searched a bunch of recent lists for ideas and found that Patxi had a 5-0 list with UW even though he/she mostly plays Eldrazi and Taxes, they had 27 undefeated trophies last time I checked. So I took the deck and modified it slightly with the new PW rules in mind, 1 Gideon AOZ instead of 2nd Jace, 2 opts instead of 2 think twice and a Shadow of Doubt instead of Mana leak #4. So far I'm 4-0 with this, but one guy ran out of time when he was about to win. I'm very unsure how to sideboard now though... I often take out all the verdicts against control decks and then wish I had them for random stuff like Pia and Kiran, Pyromancers, and other things I didn't see in game 1 (geist especially). Blessed Alliance seems pretty sweet though. AOZ hasn't really done much at all so far, I've only cast him once or twice, maybe he should just be Jura #2.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
They can often hit you with a single grapeshot, or once with a reducer too finish you off, and you still have to find an answer for empty if they go that way. They can always remand their own grapeshot and kill you the following turn too.
3x Cryptic Command
1x Disallow
2x Mana Leak
1x Negate
4x Path to Exile
1x Shadow of Doubt
1x Spell Snare
1x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Supreme Will
Planeswalker (4)
1x Gideon Jura
2x Gideon of the Trials
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
Creature (4)
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Wall of Omens
4x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Glacial Fortress
1x Hallowed Fountain
5x Island
3x Plains
3x Tectonic Edge
1x Temple of Enlightenment
Sorcery (7)
4x Serum Visions
3x Supreme Verdict
Enchantment (6)
2x Detention Sphere
4x Spreading Seas
1x Condemn
1x Dispel
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
1x Runed Halo
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Vendilion Clique
Anybody else make any drastic changes and having any luck?
I do like both lists from SCG last weekend. The 10th place list with 24 land and no Rev seems interesting and the first place in the classic is running 3 snaps and a clique. I think I would run a mashup of the two right now, clique would allow us to play the draw go game a little better which I think is important with how much storm is running rampant, at least online. I think people under value clique because of our relative lack of targets for removal. But I think Cliques ETB is strong enough to overcome that, and in light of the fact that it's probably going to get killed, I actually don't mind 2 in the main right now.
Slowgod, Disallow is interesting, how has it felt compared to say a 2nd negate?
Is Cryptic any good in games 2/3 when they play Remand, Swan Song, etc.? Do I want both Detention Spheres for games 2/3, or just 1 copy? How many Verdicts should I keep in post board? (I've been keeping in 2 or 3.)
My list and sb plan for Storm, for reference:
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Tectonic Edge
4x Flooded Strand
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Hallowed Fountain
5x Island
2x Plains
Counters (7)
3x Cryptic Command
2x Mana Leak
1x Negate
1x Logic Knot
2x Gideon of the Trials
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Gideon Jura
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Removal (11)
4x Path to Exile
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Detention Sphere
4x Supreme Verdict
Card Advantage/Selection (12)
4x Serum Visions
4x Spreading Seas
1x Think Twice
1x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Dispel
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Celestial Purge
1x Negate
3x Rest in Peace
2x Runed Halo
3x Spell Queller
1x Detention Sphere
Sideboard vs. Storm:
In: 1x Dispel, 2x Purge, 1x Negate, 3x RiP, 2x Runed Halo, 3x Queller, 1x Sphere
Out: 4x Spreading Seas, 2x Blessed Alliance, 1x Elspeth, 1x Gideon Jura, 1x Jace, 1x Cryptic, 2 Verdict, 1x Rev
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
@Annilator - Storm is hard deck to sideboard for because they don't seem to be consistent on how they sideboard against us. I talked to one storm player who told me he boards out Past in Flames to brick our RIPs and he just value Gifts since the match is easy enough already. I feel like the Empty plan is pretty bad against us, and I rarely lose to it (I lose ~3,4 turns later to grapeshot, usually) so I'm not sure why some of them are on bringing more empties in against us. Maybe it forces us to react long enough to let them set up? In any case, I feel like Queller is the best answer because it's also good filler in other matches, and I've been on 4 in the board recently, but I still don't feel like I'm even at 40% win rate yet. I've been tempted to try out Mindbreak Trap, I just hate that it's narrow. I've also found that some storm opponents will have bolts post board because they expect Queller and clique, and in those instances Queller feels abysmal. If you find something that works, let us know!
Rule of law is a little slow, and I don't mean just expensive; The fact that it's sorcery speed means sometimes you'll cast it in T3, have it remanded and then die. On the play you often have to risk tapping out on T3 anyways, they don't always have the remand and they don't always have the ability to go off, and they often tapout for a reducer, so it's probably fine in the first sideboard game (since you almost assuredly lost game 1) but it's probably too slow on the draw. I've never had one cast against me, but they do run echoing truth. My guess is they bring it in for Rule of Law if they see it game 2,
Also, I've seen a few decks running Shadow of Doubt as a one-of in the main. It seems a lot better in draw-go shells, but it still might be interesting to test since it hits Storm, Chord decks, Tron, etc.
I just looked at those lists from SCG last night, seems like clique is making it's way into the main more often. I've been thinking about that for awhile since I bring it in for so many matchups and it's always great to know what's in your opponent's hand. It's only awkward when you need to verdict after playing it. I like the 1st place list from the classic quite a bit, 3 snaps and a clique instead of the 2 walls seems reasonable, also like the runed halo in the mainboard of the 8th place deck!
I don't think the deck will change a ton unless we go all in with Gideons, Jaces and Elspeths or something (not a bad idea maybe) I'm thinking we will probably just go to 5-6 gideons, maybe an opt or 2 and possibly that legendary enchantment, but the land side of it will probably get destroyed a lot, but that's 1 less destroyed colonnade I suppose. Didn't even realize how close we are to the new rules going live!
edit: just played against a guy using opt in modern, not sure if this means the new PW rule is in effect on MTGO also? Can't find any info about it.
I'm on 3 Trials 1 Jura main with 1 AOZ in the board. I like access to the AOZ for some matchups for testing purposes, not sure it will stay in the board as those are premium slots though. I've also been thinking that if I move to 4 Serum and 3-4 Opt that I might drop down to 2 Trials since in theory we should find it more often, but it might be wrong. I feel like Trials is just the best card in the deck and every game I don't have one it is sorely missed.
Slowgod - I actually don't mind Gideon Trials against Storm just as a 3 mana threat. I want to go up on the number of Dispel out of the sideboard so that Gideon of Trials can be dropped safely around T4 more often. But yes, I think if you have a RIP out, a couple Gideons might be hard to get through for storm. Warrens isn't great against us anyways, and they aren't going to be grapeshotting for more than 10ish without access to the yard consistently. I usually find they have to Storm off and grapeshot me about 3 times to kill me when I have a RIP out (**edit - usually its twice in 1 turn via remand, and then they polish off the remainder of my life another turn with a grapeshot for somewhere between 5-8).
3x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Glacial Fortress
1x Hallowed Fountain
5x Island
3x Plains
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Temple of Enlightenment
Enchantment (7)
2x Detention Sphere
1x Runed Halo
4x Spreading Seas
Creature (2)
2x Snapcaster Mage
3x Cryptic Command
3x Mana Leak
1x Negate
2x Opt
4x Path to Exile
1x Shadow of Doubt
Planeswalker (5)
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Gideon Jura
2x Gideon of the Trials
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
Sorcery (7)
4x Serum Visions
3x Supreme Verdict
Artifact (1)
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
2x Dispel
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Vendilion Clique
I love runed halo!