Personally, I'd play logic knots and play more fetch lands (which has the added bonus of improving t1 visions, at the downside of being more painful).
Otherwise, I'm a fan of a singleton prairie stream given 8 basics (especially if you're playing more fetches).
I'd play double glacial fortress over 1/1 with mystic gate in this deck though.
Thanks guys, I'll keep winning with Confirm Suspicions over playing Rev in my list. Feel free to hit me up on MTGO so you can lose to it. In addition, any U/W control list that thinks it can win with 23 lands while trying to tec edge/Ghost Quarter will never succeed with consistency, even with A.V. in the main.
Reminder for everyone to discussions calm and civil. Constructive discussions on strategies and cards is more than welcomed but not for them to become heated into arguments.
-Xaricore
Running super smoothly, curve is great. I know Rabbit is worried about (not) having 13 untapped blue sources, but successful AV versions of the deck (numerous 5-0s, Modern Challenge winners) have a mana base that matches my own. Also added a Purge to the board to make up for not running the second D-Sphere main. The one change I might make is moving Condemn to the board for a 2nd Sphere main (any feedback on that would be appreciated).
I think AV/hills hybrids are increasingly well positioned, given how common the mirror has come to be. At any rate, I enjoy playing with AV, and if I'm giving up one or two percentage points (if that) by not playing Rev/TT instead, so be it. Deck feels great, and I'm winning matches.
I like where this is going... I dunno about prairie stream over seachrome, but probably not a huge difference in the long run. Now there's the question of what about running AV AND a Sphinx Rev in the same deck? crazy I know! There's a PPTQ at the shop near my house today, really wish I coulda gone with this deck, but stupid other stuff to do I've been crushing it lately whenever I play paper magic regardless of what exact version of this deck I'm playing.
One of my favorite things about this deck is that there are so many ways to build it and have success with it. Obviously I prefer my own build, but I think the ideas that everyone's put forth are all great for some metagames and totally worth considering. The only choice that I completely disagree with and would never do is 23 lands; it might just be my playstyle but I like to hit every single land drop until at least turn 6, the easiest way to lose is missing lands. I could maybe see 24 but I would prefer 26 or even 27 over 23.
One thing I'd love for you to weigh in on is the importance of Wall of Omens, especially in a build playing two Little Gideons. I've shaved them (the Walls), but I'm not sure it's correct. Would really appreciate hearing your thoughts.
For those on the AV builds: Has anyone tried one or two As Foretold to take advantage of late-game AV's? With one or two Supreme Will's, As Foretold is much easier to find.
The only time As Foretold seems to matter was a long game vs something like grixis control. I had like infinite mana but couldn't close out the game. Card draw vs recursive k command snap c command loops. We traded threats to no avail and I lost by decking out.
Point is, casting spells for free isn't as good as casting spells that matter.
Wall of Omens is still the only contentious spot in my list right now as well. I haven't been able to bring myself to cut it, but I keep thinking of how nicely Shadow of Doubt fits the strategy of the deck and helps in some of our tougher match-ups. If it was hybrid u/w u/w instead of u/b u/b I think I would have made the switch already.
I might try cutting my 2 walls of omens for a blessed alliance and a 24th land, but don't know what I want the 24th land to be... Traded my 3rd seachrome cause I didn't think I would need it, but 2 seachromes and 1 glacial fortress seems wrong. Maybe just island #6? I also have a Clique mainboard which could be a Disallow condemn or even 2nd Blessed Alliance... the more lifegain the better.
I'm wondering. How good is Fulminator mage against this deck and how should I use the card against the UW control deck?
Should I attack with Fulminator a few times and blow up colonade only when they try to use it/ wrath the board or should I use it earlier to keep my opponent off cryptic/ Elspeth?
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I'm wondering. How good is Fulminator mage against this deck and how should I use the card against the UW control deck?
Should I attack with Fulminator a few times and blow up colonade only when they try to use it/ wrath the board or should I use it earlier to keep my opponent off cryptic/ Elspeth?
I think part of that depends on what deck you are playing that is running the Fulminator.
I'm wondering. How good is Fulminator mage against this deck and how should I use the card against the UW control deck?
Should I attack with Fulminator a few times and blow up colonade only when they try to use it/ wrath the board or should I use it earlier to keep my opponent off cryptic/ Elspeth?
In my experience Fulminator isnt good against us. A lot of us run 25-26 land and some run crucible side and even main. We are only 2 colours, so trying to keep us off colour is not happening, and we tend to hit our first 10 land drops easily, so Mana screw is way less a problem than flood. I've won games against living end after being fulminated 5-6 times.
If you see us missing lands, or if you run into some of these crazies playing 23 lands, keeping us off verdict Mana can work, we really need like 6+ lands to operate.
I'm wondering. How good is Fulminator mage against this deck and how should I use the card against the UW control deck?
Should I attack with Fulminator a few times and blow up colonade only when they try to use it/ wrath the board or should I use it earlier to keep my opponent off cryptic/ Elspeth?
In my experience Fulminator isnt good against us. A lot of us run 25-26 land and some run crucible side and even main. We are only 2 colours, so trying to keep us off colour is not happening, and we tend to hit our first 10 land drops easily, so Mana screw is way less a problem than flood. I've won games against living end after being fulminated 5-6 times.
If you see us missing lands, or if you run into some of these crazies playing 23 lands, keeping us off verdict Mana can work, we really need like 6+ lands to operate.
For a Grixis Control style deck, what do you find is generally the best strategy against UW control. (One thing about Fulminator mage is if I do not have access to Fulminators, I will need to keep more of my paths/ terminates/ slaughter pacts to blow up colonades)
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Don't over extend into verdict is the main thing. Even snapcaster is a real threat against us, and honestly Path is fine. We kill you with Gideon or Colonnade, both can be dealt with by path. If you are running Liliana, the last hope then recurring threats is better than trying to ult against us. Try not to lean too hard on your delve threats because it's likely we bring in Rest in Peace post board.
Honestly though, I think it's just a bad matchup for Grixis. Our Mana denial plan is strong against 3 colour decks, and creature strategies just don't get very far against us.
I disagree that Fulminator is good against us though. I'm actively using my lands to trade for cards as part of my strategy. I'm ecstatic to trade my lands for your spells in a 26 land deck.
Don't over extend into verdict is the main thing. Even snapcaster is a real threat against us, and honestly Path is fine. We kill you with Gideon or Colonnade, both can be dealt with by path. If you are running Liliana, the last hope then recurring threats is better than trying to ult against us. Try not to lean too hard on your delve threats because it's likely we bring in Rest in Peace post board.
Honestly though, I think it's just a bad matchup for Grixis. Our Mana denial plan is strong against 3 colour decks, and creature strategies just don't get very far against us.
What would you say is a good way to beat UW control? I found Eternal Scourge was an absolute nightmare for my opponent, especially postboard when my opponent tries to sucker punch me with Rest in Peace.
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Point taken about the Walls -- I cut both and added 1 land and 1 D Sphere (for a total of 2 maindeck).
Otherwise, I'm a fan of a singleton prairie stream given 8 basics (especially if you're playing more fetches).
I'd play double glacial fortress over 1/1 with mystic gate in this deck though.
Now, what do we think about Spell Snare? Benny doesn't run it; most AV lists do. Who's right?
-Xaricore
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I like where this is going... I dunno about prairie stream over seachrome, but probably not a huge difference in the long run. Now there's the question of what about running AV AND a Sphinx Rev in the same deck? crazy I know! There's a PPTQ at the shop near my house today, really wish I coulda gone with this deck, but stupid other stuff to do I've been crushing it lately whenever I play paper magic regardless of what exact version of this deck I'm playing.
One thing I'd love for you to weigh in on is the importance of Wall of Omens, especially in a build playing two Little Gideons. I've shaved them (the Walls), but I'm not sure it's correct. Would really appreciate hearing your thoughts.
Point is, casting spells for free isn't as good as casting spells that matter.
Should I attack with Fulminator a few times and blow up colonade only when they try to use it/ wrath the board or should I use it earlier to keep my opponent off cryptic/ Elspeth?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I think part of that depends on what deck you are playing that is running the Fulminator.
In my experience Fulminator isnt good against us. A lot of us run 25-26 land and some run crucible side and even main. We are only 2 colours, so trying to keep us off colour is not happening, and we tend to hit our first 10 land drops easily, so Mana screw is way less a problem than flood. I've won games against living end after being fulminated 5-6 times.
If you see us missing lands, or if you run into some of these crazies playing 23 lands, keeping us off verdict Mana can work, we really need like 6+ lands to operate.
For a Grixis Control style deck, what do you find is generally the best strategy against UW control. (One thing about Fulminator mage is if I do not have access to Fulminators, I will need to keep more of my paths/ terminates/ slaughter pacts to blow up colonades)
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Honestly though, I think it's just a bad matchup for Grixis. Our Mana denial plan is strong against 3 colour decks, and creature strategies just don't get very far against us.
What would you say is a good way to beat UW control? I found Eternal Scourge was an absolute nightmare for my opponent, especially postboard when my opponent tries to sucker punch me with Rest in Peace.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i