What's the deal with so many here running 3-4 cryptics and 18 blue sources? This is like asking to get stuck with cryptics in hand, and one of the main reasons decks like esper control don't run any land destruction land; they need to keep their blue sources high for cryptics.
What's the deal with so many here running 3-4 cryptics and 18 blue sources? This is like asking to get stuck with cryptics in hand, and one of the main reasons decks like esper control don't run any land destruction land; they need to keep their blue sources high for cryptics.
Many brave souls on UW control it seems
In the 100 plus matches I've played, never once have I not been able to cast Cryptic Command when I needed to.
Based on what people have been saying, the Rev lists are underperforming? Also - perhaps it is correct to start shaving the Spreading Seas, they have underwhelmed me with Gx Tron not being a real thing anymore and they just aren't very powerful against Grixis. We still have our LD lands to disrupt mana bases.
I'm not on the Rev train myself. I have one in my sideboard but may remove it from there as well. The problem with Sp. Rev in this deck is that we are not ramping to maximize huge draws and life gain plus we are Tec Edging or Ghost Quartering our opponent leaving us with less mana to work with ourselves as the game goes longer. This makes Sp. Rev worse. I replaced it with Confirm Suspicions and haven't looked back.
but I lose pratically every single game against other Control
That's weird because my win % rate vs other 3 color control decks is about 60% due to the 4 tec edges, Crucible in the side, and our more friendly mana base.
That's weird because my win % rate vs other 3 color control decks is about 60% due to the 4 tec edges, Crucible in the side, and our more friendly mana base.
I also play 4 T.Edges + 4 S.Seas (without Crucible, though) and I have some serious issue against them. Who cares about color-denial, when the game goes 'till turn 30-35? When your opponent draws more than you, make more land-drops than you and have - as consequence - more counterspells than you, it's clear who is the favourite.
Anyway, the worst kind of control to face are things like Blue Moon: they play Ancestral Vision (best single card against us), Remand (that's another nightmare), Blood Moon, lots of cheap counters, Vendilion in multiples. Same about Esper: they are three-color, but also have Esper Charm to eliminate S.Seas and a way better draw engine than our. Jeskai is dangerous because Snap-Bolt is good against us, but if it is the Queller or Nahiri version we're better positioned than against the AV one.
Overrall, I'd say:
Bad: Blue Moon, Jeskai Draw-Go, UW with AV.
Medium: UB Faeries, Jeskai Queller, Jeskai Nahiri, Esper Draw-Go.
Good: Mardu Souls.
I agree Blue Moon is rough but outside of that, I've had a lot of success vs Esper draw-go and Jeskai control. Both run greedy mana bases and in many of those matches, I've shut down their mana long enough to take over games with one of my PW. Having Crucible in the side vs those decks is a back breaker for them because they can't interact with it once it hits the board. Even with Esper siding in lingering souls, I've had success because I side in Surgical. The decks I've had the most problems with are Blue Moon, Dredge, Storm, and Nahiri decks with Spell snares. Faeries has been about 50/50 but no blowouts.
I will not play U/W control without Crucible in the sideboard. It's that good.
Considering the idea of putting 3 Ghostly Prisons in the sideboard. Would give us a better matchup vs Dredge. Also plays well with Tec edges and our mana leaks.
I just read through Bloodyrabbits strategy for the TitanShift matchup. Ill have to test out 4x Tec Edge - as I think this is the core of how to beat TitanShift - Im just a bit concerned about how much I will miss some number of ghost quarters...
Currently im on 2x Stroke and 2x Runed Halo postboard - and if the stars align its a reasonable matchup - but sadly I have not experienced the 71% win rate as of yet - time to get out those tec edges..Further to this Im going to try out 2x Clique - looking back Ive found the games where you get Clique down is where you win rate starts heading north..
Based on what people have been saying, the Rev lists are underperforming? Also - perhaps it is correct to start shaving the Spreading Seas, they have underwhelmed me with Gx Tron not being a real thing anymore and they just aren't very powerful against Grixis. We still have our LD lands to disrupt mana bases.
I don't think they are underperforming however I'm going to try a sort of mix of the 2 styles of deck, it seems really good so far. Here's what I'm working with:
Definitely not my experience against Eldrazi Tron nor Burn.
Burn G1 is hard unless you are packing MB hate like Blessed Alliance.
Cavern of Souls does wreck me while playing UW. They have so many cards that cheese us like Chalice, Karn and All is Dust to name a few. Cavern turning off my Leaks and Cryptics is just a feel bad since I usually point my seas towards Temple and tron lands when they have two different ones. I will go as far as saying that the Etron matchup is as good as the number of Caverns they have.
2 lesser played cards I've been having success with in the sideboard recently. Both have won me matches vs Dredge and Collected Company decks as well:
Ghostly Prison and Hallowed Moonlight. I decided to board out Rest in Peace in favor of Surgical as well which allows us to maximize our Snapcasters still. Prison has been a beast vs Dredge and Spirit decks as well as Jeskai flyers, which have been popping up alot on MTGO. Hallowed Moonlight is basically a 2 mana counter spell that cantrips, even without exiling creatures if they choose not to resolve creatures entering. Also very good against any token decks. Blessed alliance is just not a good sideboard card either for this deck. I'm currently running the following sideboard:
Howdy everyone, just wanted to say that I appreciate the discussion here in these forums and the information that is shared amongst everyone as it's been very helpful! I'm new to the deck but wanted to share my list and thoughts after my first 4 round Modern Tournament!
I ended the night 2-2
Lost Round 1 Against Merfolk with an Experienced Pilot - 1-2
The game saw next to no verdicts game 2 and game 3 ended after a poor line of play, I should have forced him to flush out his hand while I had spot removal and gone into a supreme verdict but I lost to 15 points of damage from two aether vials already in play catching things EOT.
Won Round 2 Against Grixis Death's Shadow with an Experienced Pilot - 2-0
I really enjoyed this as everyone discussed it a lot, I cut him off black mana aggressively and won handidly thanks to him not being able to play his threats without black.
Won Round 3 Against Merfolk with an Inexperienced Pilot - 2-1
The guy wasn't bad but he definitely didn't do things in order and missed triggers and such but the matchup in game 1 was rough, no supreme verdicts or paths were seen. Game 2 and 3 I won by not giving him 2 blue with my spreading seas, I would only path lords and a turn 4 JAoT lead him into supreme verdicts twice.
Lost Round 4 Against Death and Taxes with an Inexperienced Pilot - 0-2
This guy wasn't rude but dear god Death and Taxes is a rude deck. The owner of the deck was next to him and was horribly rude during the game and I kind of tilted and scooped so I could go home and ask for advice rather than feed into a deck owners ego.
All in all I got a little something and was complemented by the Grixis Shadow player for our match as his other deck of choice has been UW for a while. I have played Merfolk in the past a bit and still own it so I feel the game comes down to getting those answers. I would like to see what what I can do against Death and Taxes because it felt nearly unwinnable, Turn 1 Birds, Turn 2 Thalia and Vial, Turn 3 Leonin Arbiter and it slowed down til he Eldrazi Displacer'd with the Renegade to destroy all my lands both games.
Anyone that would like to provide thoughts on the deck list would be greatly appreciated! The planeswalker package was amazing and I felt 3 Cryptic was great, I also loved Irrigated Farmland for it's cycle, EOT fetchability, and the fact that it turns on Glacial Fortress (so to speak) as I ended up needing it. I also had next to no use for Wall of Omens in any match-up as I couldn't block or lost my lands either way. I may try dropping the Temple for a Supreme Will, the Walls for a Snapcaster and a Condemn and I wasn't a huge fan of Logic Knot, I may swap it to a Disallow.
Me too, it's really just a few less lands and no think twice / sphinx rev for the addition of the AVs. I'm not 100% sure on the clique in the mainboard in my list and I think it would be nice to have at least 1 life-gain card in the main. The walls of omens / little gideons have been too good to not play IMO. Would like to see more people's take on a similar list.
@ThisBorzi: have you been playing one? Got one to share? I still owe the thread mine! Will try to post later. Have my dissertation defense tomorrow, so been pretty busy!
Bloodyrabbit, first of all I totally agree with almost all of your points, I just have one question and one comment. Which matchups are you talking about where you like Clique a lot better than Geist? I've definitely liked Clique but Geist is such a house in a lot of matchups, I'm not sure I'd want to go 2/0 instead of 1/1. Second, I used to struggle a lot vs Lantern, but lately I've actually been winning pretty consistently. I'm 8-3 since I started keeping track of stats, which isn't a big enough sample size to call the matchup great, but it makes me think it's not too bad. I think it's the hardest matchup to play in the format by a pretty large margin but if you play optimally I think we're favored.
Thanks Borzi and Rabbit; I think Rabbit is right that I should go for the third Cryptic -- was just trying to lower the curve a bit. I also worry about having no main deck life gain -- should I try to find a spot for BA? And does the mana base seem fine?
@Rabbit: Sweet -- I've made some revisions. Went down to 23 lands (cut a Mystic Gate), have 13 untapped blue sources (swapped Glacial Fortress for Seachrome), added a BA, and swapped a Cryptic for a Disallow (since this gets the hard counter, while lowering the curve, which fits with lowering the land count to 23). What do you think?
Many brave souls on UW control it seems
In the 100 plus matches I've played, never once have I not been able to cast Cryptic Command when I needed to.
I'm not on the Rev train myself. I have one in my sideboard but may remove it from there as well. The problem with Sp. Rev in this deck is that we are not ramping to maximize huge draws and life gain plus we are Tec Edging or Ghost Quartering our opponent leaving us with less mana to work with ourselves as the game goes longer. This makes Sp. Rev worse. I replaced it with Confirm Suspicions and haven't looked back.
That's weird because my win % rate vs other 3 color control decks is about 60% due to the 4 tec edges, Crucible in the side, and our more friendly mana base.
I agree Blue Moon is rough but outside of that, I've had a lot of success vs Esper draw-go and Jeskai control. Both run greedy mana bases and in many of those matches, I've shut down their mana long enough to take over games with one of my PW. Having Crucible in the side vs those decks is a back breaker for them because they can't interact with it once it hits the board. Even with Esper siding in lingering souls, I've had success because I side in Surgical. The decks I've had the most problems with are Blue Moon, Dredge, Storm, and Nahiri decks with Spell snares. Faeries has been about 50/50 but no blowouts.
I will not play U/W control without Crucible in the sideboard. It's that good.
Currently im on 2x Stroke and 2x Runed Halo postboard - and if the stars align its a reasonable matchup - but sadly I have not experienced the 71% win rate as of yet - time to get out those tec edges..Further to this Im going to try out 2x Clique - looking back Ive found the games where you get Clique down is where you win rate starts heading north..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I don't think they are underperforming however I'm going to try a sort of mix of the 2 styles of deck, it seems really good so far. Here's what I'm working with:
4x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
5x Island
2x Plains
2x Seachrome Coast
2x Tectonic Edge
Planeswalker (4)
1x Gideon Jura
2x Gideon of the Trials
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
Enchantment (6)
2x Detention Sphere
4x Spreading Seas
3x Cryptic Command
1x Logic Knot
2x Mana Leak
1x Negate
4x Path to Exile
Sorcery (11)
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Serum Visions
3x Supreme Verdict
Creature (5)
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Wall of Omens
1x Celestial Purge
1x Condemn
2x Dispel
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Timely Reinforcements
I may go to 4 tec edge and cut 2 things from the sideboard for a couple runed halos, probably a timely and the 4th verdict or geist.
Burn G1 is hard unless you are packing MB hate like Blessed Alliance.
Cavern of Souls does wreck me while playing UW. They have so many cards that cheese us like Chalice, Karn and All is Dust to name a few. Cavern turning off my Leaks and Cryptics is just a feel bad since I usually point my seas towards Temple and tron lands when they have two different ones. I will go as far as saying that the Etron matchup is as good as the number of Caverns they have.
Ghostly Prison and Hallowed Moonlight. I decided to board out Rest in Peace in favor of Surgical as well which allows us to maximize our Snapcasters still. Prison has been a beast vs Dredge and Spirit decks as well as Jeskai flyers, which have been popping up alot on MTGO. Hallowed Moonlight is basically a 2 mana counter spell that cantrips, even without exiling creatures if they choose not to resolve creatures entering. Also very good against any token decks. Blessed alliance is just not a good sideboard card either for this deck. I'm currently running the following sideboard:
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Hallowed Moonlight
2 Stony Silence
2 Dispel
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Negate
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Surgical Extraction
4x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Irrigated Farmland
6x Island
2x Plains
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Temple of Enlightenment
4x Spreading Seas
3x Cryptic Command
1x Logic Knot
2x Mana Leak
1x Negate
4x Path to Exile
1x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Gideon of the Trials
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
4x Serum Visions
3x Supreme Verdict
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Wall of Omens
2x Dispel
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Vendilion Clique
Howdy everyone, just wanted to say that I appreciate the discussion here in these forums and the information that is shared amongst everyone as it's been very helpful! I'm new to the deck but wanted to share my list and thoughts after my first 4 round Modern Tournament!
I ended the night 2-2
Lost Round 1 Against Merfolk with an Experienced Pilot - 1-2
The game saw next to no verdicts game 2 and game 3 ended after a poor line of play, I should have forced him to flush out his hand while I had spot removal and gone into a supreme verdict but I lost to 15 points of damage from two aether vials already in play catching things EOT.
Won Round 2 Against Grixis Death's Shadow with an Experienced Pilot - 2-0
I really enjoyed this as everyone discussed it a lot, I cut him off black mana aggressively and won handidly thanks to him not being able to play his threats without black.
Won Round 3 Against Merfolk with an Inexperienced Pilot - 2-1
The guy wasn't bad but he definitely didn't do things in order and missed triggers and such but the matchup in game 1 was rough, no supreme verdicts or paths were seen. Game 2 and 3 I won by not giving him 2 blue with my spreading seas, I would only path lords and a turn 4 JAoT lead him into supreme verdicts twice.
Lost Round 4 Against Death and Taxes with an Inexperienced Pilot - 0-2
This guy wasn't rude but dear god Death and Taxes is a rude deck. The owner of the deck was next to him and was horribly rude during the game and I kind of tilted and scooped so I could go home and ask for advice rather than feed into a deck owners ego.
All in all I got a little something and was complemented by the Grixis Shadow player for our match as his other deck of choice has been UW for a while. I have played Merfolk in the past a bit and still own it so I feel the game comes down to getting those answers. I would like to see what what I can do against Death and Taxes because it felt nearly unwinnable, Turn 1 Birds, Turn 2 Thalia and Vial, Turn 3 Leonin Arbiter and it slowed down til he Eldrazi Displacer'd with the Renegade to destroy all my lands both games.
Anyone that would like to provide thoughts on the deck list would be greatly appreciated! The planeswalker package was amazing and I felt 3 Cryptic was great, I also loved Irrigated Farmland for it's cycle, EOT fetchability, and the fact that it turns on Glacial Fortress (so to speak) as I ended up needing it. I also had next to no use for Wall of Omens in any match-up as I couldn't block or lost my lands either way. I may try dropping the Temple for a Supreme Will, the Walls for a Snapcaster and a Condemn and I wasn't a huge fan of Logic Knot, I may swap it to a Disallow.
Thanks and keep up the great discussion y'all!
Edit: here's the link so you don't have to click back: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-04-17-lxJ-uw-control/.