One thing I didn't understand about Benny's interview was when he was talking about sideboarding against burn. It said something like, if he's on the draw he will cut a tec edge and add a cryptic command back in, and he just tries to make the curve as low as possible. I'm wondering if this was supposed to be "on the play"? With 26 lands though it does seem perfectly reasonable to cut one of the edges or GQs once in awhile.
I'm still trying to decide my current sideboard, it's between having a total of 3 negates and 4 supreme verdicts in the 75 or adding 3 spell quellers... I think quellers need more testing, but they do add a significant clock in many games, and can eat a late game threat that your mana leak/negate won't be able to take care of.
Someone have a link to this interview? Checked the last few pages and did a google search but can't find it.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
So I think I've finally given up on Jeskai for a bit. I tried Nassif's article list a couple of weeks ago and loved it, and have now sleeved up Benny's list (with very minor tweaks to the lands). For the past like two and a half years I've been basically the only UWx player at my shop, but UW is starting to pop up more and more, so I'm looking a bit to find a nice mirror breaker since I don't want to just bank on leveraging my experience with the archetype. Anyone have any suggestions?
I think MTGS switched because the Nexus successors (after I moved on from the site) did not regularly post updates.
Glad the deck is Tier 1 because it deserves the spotlight. Not glad it's Tier 1 because UW Control mirrors are way too long, most players aren't very good at them, and I'd like to not play as many. I'm curious to see if it maintains its popularity now that Wizards switched the MTGO deck reporting format. With less regular MTGO exposure, the deck will likely see less play.
Can anyone help me with matchup advice? I'm having trouble beating Merfolk, Goblins, and more recently, Slivers. AKA Hyper aggressive tribal decks that either hit hard or use Aether Vial to cheat in creatures past our counterspell's.
Stuff I'm having trouble with:
-Lines of play
-Keeping in counterspells after game 1.
-What exactly to board out.
-Which creatures we have to worry about the most.
-When to hold up countermagic if we have to, or casting a draw spell like Serum Visions being more important that holding up a counter.
I'm really, really struggling against these decks, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Can anyone help me with matchup advice? I'm having trouble beating Merfolk, Goblins, and more recently, Slivers. AKA Hyper aggressive tribal decks that either hit hard or use Aether Vial to cheat in creatures past our counterspell's.
Stuff I'm having trouble with:
-Lines of play
-Keeping in counterspells after game 1.
-What exactly to board out.
-Which creatures we have to worry about the most.
-When to hold up countermagic if we have to, or casting a draw spell like Serum Visions being more important that holding up a counter.
I'm really, really struggling against these decks, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
i think the match up is somewhat 50/50 (could be 55/45 or 45/55 either way), so dont push to hard on yourself.
several tips:
-you should go and look for verdict supreme (with visions for example), is your best card in those match up.
-against goblin an early path could be the solution, but hold them after a supreme verdict against merfolk since vial can rebuild and go for lethal next turn.
-try to make them overcommit flooding the board with: gideons, wall of omens, blockers, etc (unless is merfolk, islandwalk mess badly).
-try to hold islands the firsts turns so you can block, or at least make them to play spreding seas first.
-unless you really need the card draw, hold spreading seas for mutavault.
-SB: add most creature destruction you have, stony silence (i bring 2, stoping vials could be life or death), SB out most counterspells (keep some ones like command, or mana leak on the play).
-first turns: cantrip cantrip draw draw, you need supreme verdict!
so, in summary:
-draw draw draw draw, supreme verdict, path, snap+path are you best cards.
-try to hold verdict as long as you could (read the article!), against most players this mean turn 4 verdict, but against good merfolk players this is not a golden rule.
-when you play the first supreme verdict, try to match your remaining answers for the upcomming threats (spreading seas/GQ for muta, supreme verdict against Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, snap+path when they attack with 2 lords after the first board clean)
Can anyone help me with matchup advice? I'm having trouble beating Merfolk, Goblins, and more recently, Slivers. AKA Hyper aggressive tribal decks that either hit hard or use Aether Vial to cheat in creatures past our counterspell's.
Stuff I'm having trouble with:
-Lines of play
-Keeping in counterspells after game 1.
-What exactly to board out.
-Which creatures we have to worry about the most.
-When to hold up countermagic if we have to, or casting a draw spell like Serum Visions being more important that holding up a counter.
I'm really, really struggling against these decks, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Leviathan already addressed some key points so I'll try to add some additional tips. I'll add Elves to the mix, which can be just as tough as Merfolk with Ezuri to regenerate through Verdict, Chord to get Ezuri at instant speed, and Company (plus, potentially, Lead the Stampede) to restock a Verdicted board.
Lines of play
Look for Snapcaster Mage's hidden Ambush Viper mode. Grixis DS, Jund, and Grixis Control all maindeck Terminate. If Snapcaster can imitate Terminate on a key creature during T2-T3, that's a totally acceptable use of the card. Also, look for Snapcaster's hidden T3 SV mode, which will help you dig for the critical T4 Verdict (or Cryptic to buy time), plus give you a blocker. Another key Snapcaster line: T1 or T2 Path into T3 Snapcaster/Path, especially if Path can kill a lord and Snapcaster can kill a second lord. Speaking of "hidden modes," suiciding Gideon of the Trials on T3 is bad if they can kill Gideon while also damaging you. BUT, if Gideon of the Trials takes two turns to die with no damage to you, that's a lot better; using his +1 twice might make him an effective three-mana Moment's Peace if an opponent needs to commit two turns to killing him. These modes are underused against aggressive decks. Finally, as Leviathan said, avoid playing Islands or Fountains against Merfolk until T4. This is the only way you can reliably get the devastating T1-T2 Path into T3 Snapcaster.
Counterspells
If they run Cavern, I'm ditching all the Leaks/Knots in both G2 and G3, especially if they have Vial too. Exception: if they play Chord and Company, I'll keep 1 Leak on the draw and 2 on the play, and Dispel is coming in. I'll ditch Negate in G2 and then maybe reconsider it in G3 if I see lots of weird noncreature spells messing up the game. Cryptic stays because at minimum it buys a turn and digs you closer to removal.
Boarding
Think Twice is an easy cut against all the aggressive decks. Against bigger creatures like Merfolk, Jace gets cut too. Most tribal decks run Cavern and/or Vial, so you free up slots on Leak/Knot/Negate too. Finally, if the deck is wider than it is big (Goblins, Elves), you can go -1 or even -2 on Gideon of the Trials. Good cards to board in include Elspeth, Condemn, Verdict, and Reinforcements.
Worrisome creatures
Against Elves, save Path or countermagic for Ezuri (or the inevitable Chord/Company into Ezuri). Ezuri ruins Verdict, and if you can't Verdict, you probably can't win. Pathing T2 Archdruid is also acceptable, especially if the opponent mulliganed. Against Goblins, kill big damage creatures like Denizen early, especially on the draw. Merfolk is generally a tough matchup, but prioritize lords. I don't see too many Slivers decks on MTGO, but Path priorities are Sedge, Predatory, Sinew, and Necrotic. Be super careful about Necrotic Sliver; competent Slivers pilots will sneak it in and then lock us out of lands.
Hold counters vs. SV
On the play, I'm fine playing SV on T2; my opponent's T2 plays won't be too scary. On the draw, I'm waiting until T3 with countermagic backup. All these decks generally have their scariest plays on T3 or later. On the draw, you will probably have to Verdict on T4. On the play, I do whatever I can to wait until T5 with Path (or, better yet, Dispel) backup.
I don't really agree with bringing in stoney silence for vials. It's a very narrow answer to a card they might not even draw. You can't be messing around with irrelevant cards against such a speedy deck. Unless you have cards that are more dead than stoney silence I wouldn't bother.
Otherwise what everyone else is saying is good advise. For what it's worth I play against a really good merfolk player pretty regularly with UW and I'd consider the matchup a bit in our favor. It really comes down to the turn four verdict plus another verdict sometime soon after that. They can usually rebuild after one sweeper but two is almost always game winning.
Nice work getting the deck to T1, a lot of people have been kicking ass with it! As for the recent conversation on this page... Do you guys often purposely not play SV on turn 1 and just go Flooded Strand / non-island land, pass? I usually just go for the T1 Serum Visions, but I guess I never really think about maybe wanting to path their turn 1 play.
OrionDante - I also think about the Sphinxes Rev. I haven't had too much experience yet with the newer lists, but as a long time control player I've always valued Rev highly. However, my experiences in the past have mostly been with 3 colour decks and as such I am accustom to my Mana dealing me a lot of damage. I have found so far that I am winning with much higher life total than I am used to and have been thinking of switching out the Rev for Pull From Tomorrow . We run a high land count, so the discard mode is going to be less of a drawback than it appears. I think Glimmer of Genius is actually also better than Rev or Think Twice, but Pull from tomorrow is comparable on 4 Mana and obviously scales better going late.
For people playing/considering playing glimmer of genius, thoughts on the new hieroglyphic illumination?
You lose the scry 2 in exchange for cycling, which can often be a worthy trade-off if you need action fast in the first couple of turns.
Cycling it also fuels logic knot, and it can be snapcastered for full value later if need be.
Hi all, fairly new to the archetype and don't have much experience with UW decks because I've never owned Colonnades before.
I'm here to ask why this deck specifically has significantly shot up in popularity over the last few months over any other control deck. What makes this deck stand out from say, Grixis control that makes it a great meta choice? I'm curious as to why UW has been thriving recently but other Cryptic Command decks are dying out.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
Supreme Verdict has a lot to do with it I think. The fact that it can play 4x Spreading Seas ad 4x Tec Edge/Ghost Quarter while not messing with it's own mana is also great.
I played the full Benny list for the first time last night except I had a celestial purge instead of the 2nd negate in the sideboard, so really the same thing. I won't do a full recap, but I totally crushed it, my opponents had no chance and the deck played like a doomsday clock! I've always been bad at sticking with 1 deck for the long haul, but I've finally found that 1 deck I'm going to be playing for a long time. I'm keeping my playsets of AVs and extra snaps/cryptics and other relevant stuff so I can always build any version of the deck at any time.
A few cards that I haven't played with before that impressed last night. First of all irrigated farmland! I was never unhappy to see this card in my opening hand or late game for cycling. Geist of Saint Traft out of the board, this guy won a couple games, including 1 game against a jeskai spirits deck where I swung for 16 damage in 1 turn with big gideon, CC and Geist. Gideon of the Trials He was attacking on an open board so often and forced a couple nice chump blocks, love this guy! Think Twice and Mana Leak were also both better than I expected. Leak was only dead once or twice, but almost always hit a great target, also having 2 of them in hand a couple times where I would have been able to use both on the same spell if I had to. I think that's another benefit of playing 3 copies of Mana Leak, better chance of having 2 in your hand when you need to counter the same spell twice.
In my opinion, UW is a being a big player in this metagame because Supreme Verdict is such a beating for the 3 best decks in the format(Affinity,Eldrazi and GDS). Also, being basically hate-proof is one of the sweetest thing about UW. The card that wrecks you(and sees play in Modern) is Cavern of Souls and even then, that allows creatures into the battlefield which your sweepers and removal can take care off easily.
People seem to like to bring in blood moon thinking they will stop your colonnades. I played against ponza last night and he won game one due to me only finding 1 basic island the entire game even though I run 5. Next 2 games he got utterly annihilated, I like having plenty of basics personally.
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http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35429_Video-UW-Control-In-Modern.html
In the deck tech portion, he says 2 Snapcaster feels like the right number in Benny's list.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
http://tappedout.net/mtg-articles/2017/jul/10/modern-tiered-list-weekly-update-71017/
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
The tier list (for this forum at least) generally comes from here: http://modernnexus.com/
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
I think MTGS switched because the Nexus successors (after I moved on from the site) did not regularly post updates.
Glad the deck is Tier 1 because it deserves the spotlight. Not glad it's Tier 1 because UW Control mirrors are way too long, most players aren't very good at them, and I'd like to not play as many. I'm curious to see if it maintains its popularity now that Wizards switched the MTGO deck reporting format. With less regular MTGO exposure, the deck will likely see less play.
Stuff I'm having trouble with:
-Lines of play
-Keeping in counterspells after game 1.
-What exactly to board out.
-Which creatures we have to worry about the most.
-When to hold up countermagic if we have to, or casting a draw spell like Serum Visions being more important that holding up a counter.
I'm really, really struggling against these decks, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
first read this article, is godly: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/the-only-point-of-life-that-matters-is-your-last/
(or if you are in a hurry read "Using Life to Control the Board").
i think the match up is somewhat 50/50 (could be 55/45 or 45/55 either way), so dont push to hard on yourself.
several tips:
-you should go and look for verdict supreme (with visions for example), is your best card in those match up.
-against goblin an early path could be the solution, but hold them after a supreme verdict against merfolk since vial can rebuild and go for lethal next turn.
-try to make them overcommit flooding the board with: gideons, wall of omens, blockers, etc (unless is merfolk, islandwalk mess badly).
-try to hold islands the firsts turns so you can block, or at least make them to play spreding seas first.
-unless you really need the card draw, hold spreading seas for mutavault.
-SB: add most creature destruction you have, stony silence (i bring 2, stoping vials could be life or death), SB out most counterspells (keep some ones like command, or mana leak on the play).
-first turns: cantrip cantrip draw draw, you need supreme verdict!
so, in summary:
-draw draw draw draw, supreme verdict, path, snap+path are you best cards.
-try to hold verdict as long as you could (read the article!), against most players this mean turn 4 verdict, but against good merfolk players this is not a golden rule.
-when you play the first supreme verdict, try to match your remaining answers for the upcomming threats (spreading seas/GQ for muta, supreme verdict against Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, snap+path when they attack with 2 lords after the first board clean)
Leviathan already addressed some key points so I'll try to add some additional tips. I'll add Elves to the mix, which can be just as tough as Merfolk with Ezuri to regenerate through Verdict, Chord to get Ezuri at instant speed, and Company (plus, potentially, Lead the Stampede) to restock a Verdicted board.
Lines of play
Look for Snapcaster Mage's hidden Ambush Viper mode. Grixis DS, Jund, and Grixis Control all maindeck Terminate. If Snapcaster can imitate Terminate on a key creature during T2-T3, that's a totally acceptable use of the card. Also, look for Snapcaster's hidden T3 SV mode, which will help you dig for the critical T4 Verdict (or Cryptic to buy time), plus give you a blocker. Another key Snapcaster line: T1 or T2 Path into T3 Snapcaster/Path, especially if Path can kill a lord and Snapcaster can kill a second lord. Speaking of "hidden modes," suiciding Gideon of the Trials on T3 is bad if they can kill Gideon while also damaging you. BUT, if Gideon of the Trials takes two turns to die with no damage to you, that's a lot better; using his +1 twice might make him an effective three-mana Moment's Peace if an opponent needs to commit two turns to killing him. These modes are underused against aggressive decks. Finally, as Leviathan said, avoid playing Islands or Fountains against Merfolk until T4. This is the only way you can reliably get the devastating T1-T2 Path into T3 Snapcaster.
Counterspells
If they run Cavern, I'm ditching all the Leaks/Knots in both G2 and G3, especially if they have Vial too. Exception: if they play Chord and Company, I'll keep 1 Leak on the draw and 2 on the play, and Dispel is coming in. I'll ditch Negate in G2 and then maybe reconsider it in G3 if I see lots of weird noncreature spells messing up the game. Cryptic stays because at minimum it buys a turn and digs you closer to removal.
Boarding
Think Twice is an easy cut against all the aggressive decks. Against bigger creatures like Merfolk, Jace gets cut too. Most tribal decks run Cavern and/or Vial, so you free up slots on Leak/Knot/Negate too. Finally, if the deck is wider than it is big (Goblins, Elves), you can go -1 or even -2 on Gideon of the Trials. Good cards to board in include Elspeth, Condemn, Verdict, and Reinforcements.
Worrisome creatures
Against Elves, save Path or countermagic for Ezuri (or the inevitable Chord/Company into Ezuri). Ezuri ruins Verdict, and if you can't Verdict, you probably can't win. Pathing T2 Archdruid is also acceptable, especially if the opponent mulliganed. Against Goblins, kill big damage creatures like Denizen early, especially on the draw. Merfolk is generally a tough matchup, but prioritize lords. I don't see too many Slivers decks on MTGO, but Path priorities are Sedge, Predatory, Sinew, and Necrotic. Be super careful about Necrotic Sliver; competent Slivers pilots will sneak it in and then lock us out of lands.
Hold counters vs. SV
On the play, I'm fine playing SV on T2; my opponent's T2 plays won't be too scary. On the draw, I'm waiting until T3 with countermagic backup. All these decks generally have their scariest plays on T3 or later. On the draw, you will probably have to Verdict on T4. On the play, I do whatever I can to wait until T5 with Path (or, better yet, Dispel) backup.
Otherwise what everyone else is saying is good advise. For what it's worth I play against a really good merfolk player pretty regularly with UW and I'd consider the matchup a bit in our favor. It really comes down to the turn four verdict plus another verdict sometime soon after that. They can usually rebuild after one sweeper but two is almost always game winning.
You lose the scry 2 in exchange for cycling, which can often be a worthy trade-off if you need action fast in the first couple of turns.
Cycling it also fuels logic knot, and it can be snapcastered for full value later if need be.
I'm here to ask why this deck specifically has significantly shot up in popularity over the last few months over any other control deck. What makes this deck stand out from say, Grixis control that makes it a great meta choice? I'm curious as to why UW has been thriving recently but other Cryptic Command decks are dying out.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
A few cards that I haven't played with before that impressed last night. First of all irrigated farmland! I was never unhappy to see this card in my opening hand or late game for cycling. Geist of Saint Traft out of the board, this guy won a couple games, including 1 game against a jeskai spirits deck where I swung for 16 damage in 1 turn with big gideon, CC and Geist. Gideon of the Trials He was attacking on an open board so often and forced a couple nice chump blocks, love this guy! Think Twice and Mana Leak were also both better than I expected. Leak was only dead once or twice, but almost always hit a great target, also having 2 of them in hand a couple times where I would have been able to use both on the same spell if I had to. I think that's another benefit of playing 3 copies of Mana Leak, better chance of having 2 in your hand when you need to counter the same spell twice.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW