The June Titanium Challenge 1K Event - 72 Players - Hosted at TJ's Collectables in Milford Massachusetts on Saturday June 3rd, 2017
Where to start - Where to start? Well, it all started 23 years ago when I returned from my freshman year at college. Joining friends at a gaming store, I purchased my first Revised Edition Starter Pack. No, let's fast forward to the good stuff. O.K. I started this thread which launched the archetype of Pyro Prison in January of 2016. We've racked up 15 pages of collaborative contributions from our phenomenal mountain folk with real groundbreaking wisdom. I've taken the deck to (4) Premier Events in the last 6 months. I missed TOP 8 in one of the events, but otherwise finished 5th, 2nd, and 1st. Also, our own Michael Villa split 1st place in a 62-person event in March. So, it's feeling very real. I will be putting in a request to MTGsalvation to elevate our status out of "Deck Creation".
Videos! Let's see some hot Flameswalker action: Koth's Mountain-Fisted Uppercuts and Chandra's Immolating Jets of Fire. Done. Here are (3) Videos.
The Semi-Finals Pyro Prison versus Abzan Aggro (Jund-ish)
Round 1, I mull down to 5 which tilts me, but it gets better after that. This is a tough matchup for us, and sideboarding is difficult. I can only recall that I dropped (4) Chalice of the Void for (2) Anger of the Gods, (1) Ratchet Bomb, and (1) Spellskite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS3jiZSEE6c
The Interview
Zach Hall sits down with me to discuss the state of mono-red affairs and how an unlikely rogue deck has proven itself as an elite contender. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDgOgwMHVfc&t=9s
You'll quickly realize that the production values for the filming were top notch, 3 cameras, and the commentary by Zack Hall is extraordinarily insightful and entertaining. It's clear that he has read our thread, and understands the positioning of Pyro Prison in the Modern meta. Enjoy the shows, and I welcome any questions/critiques about my gameplay. A tourney report is forthcoming, and thanks for the shoutouts/congrats guys!
hmm I love that "primeval roar" at the end :-). It was tense...two and a half minutes before the end I thought "how exactly he is going to get away from it" - but hey I knew the spoiler. Waiting for the list and card opinions after the tournament. How was the Red God?
@Valleysdai: The commentator's suggestion was incorrect. He believed that I could cast Goblin Rabblemaster in the 2nd main phase, and still get a 1/1 goblin. As we all know, the goblin gets generated at the beginning of the attack phase.
Looking back, would I make any swaps in the main or sideboard? Honestly, for what I see in my meta, I can definitely see an extra Anger of the Gods in the SB and maybe an extra Phyrexian Revoker there as well, and maybe another Magma Jet in the maindeck. Alright, The top 8 decks, as I recall, were:
I wish I faced Grixis Death's Shadow! I've probably played 60+ paper tournament games in 2017, faced a sizable number of GDS decks, and don't believe I have lost a round to them - they're just a tremendously good matchup for us. For some reason, the tourney results still haven't made it onto MTGtop8.com and the store's website is down But, the videos serve as testament to the win -- unless it's all a massive conspiracy: Fake Tourneys! Fake Tourneys! Ha -
Hazoret the Fervent. Yeah, I'll stick with her. I like having the extra aggressive line. She did win me one game in the first round of the top 8 versus Bant Eldrazi. The two damage seems small, but folks do fetch their own life down, and Hazoret can tip the win in your favor after the game has settled down into a stalled board state.
Spec.Ops has gone and done foiled out his whole Pyro Prison deck?!?!? Soooo Boss. That's one way to hush up a naysayer that doubts the legitimacy of our clan. You mentioned MTGO not working out, but have you tried Cockatrice? It's serviceable. But, folks do tend to be net deck snobs - can be tiresome to hear their ill-informed opinions about Red Prison strategy as something less than competitive. That's why we gotta spread the Good Word, LindonMichael! Teach the heathens!
I did fire off a request to KtKenshinx, an old buddy, to get elevated in the forums.
Epic stuff Ray. The ability to watch our deck from a third party perspective was very insightful, and it lead me to the conclusion that 2 Magus in the main is probably correct, as they have much more value g1. My thought was that if I played a Magus on t1 g1 against an unknown opponent only to have it bolted or pathed, I probably throw 800 dollars worth of cards. After watching the videos, specifically game 2 of the semis, I realized how much value they lose after g1, and in hindsight, I feel like siding out some number of them was probably correct, do you agree?
As far as the list goes, my line of thinking has shifted toward yours as of late, starting with ritual count. Powering out a lock piece on t1 or t2 is obviously vital, but following up with a threat a turn or two early is certainly GG. It also justifies the inclusion of the goblin we've all been flirting with, Siege-Gang Commander. My initial trepidation was, as you stated, the "air" it puts in the deck, which is why I went with just 3 in my cantrip-heavy build. As I took my leap of faith, I quickly realized the value in Tormenting Voice, with one asterisk, however.. Affinity. Looking at recent top 8s, it's still very prevalent. Sandbagging a card or topdecking 'The Voice' could be more troublesome than a night with Miley Cyrus and no Penicillin, and while it may not be cause for concern locally, it's something to keep in mind if you're taking on a GP or something.
To sum it up, you definitely made us proud, Ray. After watching you on video and what we already knew about you from this thread, it's clear that you're a great guy that's fun to be around, and with a 5 DIGIT DCI NUMBER, you've surely forgotten more about this game than most of us will ever learn. Your passion for this deck is what made me choose it over more developed archetypes. I just had to be a part of this rogue deck that is going to take over the modern world. We've all piggybacked off of your work in some way, and you've proven our deck is a force to be reckoned with. I'm happy to be a part of our team! As our leader, and with a DCI number like yours, I dub thee;
Great job Raystack....I'm headed to the SCG Invitational in a few weeks with this deck pulling the weight in the Modern rounds. Still trying to decide on a standard deck...thinking of the RG aggro deck right now...will see if they ban anything next week.
Awesome win Raystack! This list is really sweet. I want to give it a shot. The sideboard seems all over the place, but I guess that makes a good board if you know when and why you want each piece.
Morning all....has fun at FNM last night, but ran into 3 straight Death's Shadow matches en-route to a 1-2 finish. Not much to say, Bridge crushes them if it lands, but had trouble slogging through Thoughtsieze and such to get a prison piece to hit....was just one of those nights where it didn't come together.
Did see one other player at the 17 man event sporting a lot of mountains, didn't get a chance to talk to him though.
Still have all the confidence in the world in taking the deck to the Invitational in a couple of weeks. Can't wait - please let me know if anyone here is attending and we can discuss the deck.
Mike
We've Been Stickied! The Moderators of MTGsalvation have seen fit to reward us with a Pin in 'Deck Creation'
@Mvilla888: 1-2 records happen. Heck, look at the stats: most 1-2 starts in tournaments come from top-tier decks (roughly - just mean to say you can't 'win' a victory by copying a net deck), so I'm glad you're not down on Pyro Prison. 3 Death's Shadow decks, eh? Which kind: Grixis or Jund or Esper? Grixis gets hosed by Chalice as they typically run (25) 1-cmc spells, and Esper is the new flavor of the month - it's still developing its decklist. Overall, I love facing these decks. Like you said, Bridge for the win, chalice for the lock, and tormenting voice to get you there. For sideboarding: I suggest Ratchet Bomb, Hazoret the Fervent, Spellskite...Word of Seizing? I think this card will find itself swapped for a 3rd Anger of the Gods. WoS is my latest addition - wondering about it's applications. I did pull this li'l gem off in an FNM: Facing Skred, I stole his Koth of the Hammer on (2) and drained it out. Then I used the mana to cast a Chandra, Torch of Defiance!
Well, Thanks. Many thanks to the folks writing into the thread and sending PMs. I swung by my packed LGS, TJ's in Milford, last night (50+ mages), and was greeted with heaps of fanfare and ass-slapping atta'boys. With good reason: like my thread kin, they know that they shared in my win. That victory was forged in the crucible of all of our shared testing, grinding out games, talking strategy, and developing winning lines of play. Huzzah! And, since we've been published in MTGtop8.com again the word is out now!
Blah-Blah-Blah Personal Player Profile Follows:
Speaking of "The Word is Out". Caligula mentioned the brevity of my DCI number: 5 digits. In (16) pages of this thread, I haven't bothered with any personal Magic history: No Player Profile. But, what the heck, soooo I started chucking cardboard in the pre-internet days - the wild west. There was no international community...no national community. It was every man for himself. Very Luckily, I fell in with the Boston area elite. I played many times - won & lost - with the first 2 Magic World Champions, counted Billy Jensen as a pal, qualified for Pro Tour Atlanta in '96, and ranked in the top 200 limited players in the world that same year. I left Magic some time later, and stayed away for more than a decade. Coming back, I dabbled with rogue archetypes --- always turning my back on net decks. 18 months ago inspiration struck. Alongside other Mountainfolk, the journey began. This time: it wasn't every man for himself. So, bully for us! I suppose that's enough babble already. Next up is the Tourney Report. Let's keep it going - Watch for Michael Villa to climb that winner's podium at the StarCityGames Invitational in a few weeks. Let's Goooooo. Let's Gooooooo.
The single most important point: This is definitively not an isolated win. Within this thread, We have (5) documented top-tier tournament reports within the last several months, Premier Event Classification, and we pulled down (4) Top 8 Finishes out of (5) --- 4 out of 5. That's extraordinarily impressive, and can be seen in the Official Primer. Anyhoo....
Finally, here it is. I don't anticipate it to be all that involved as it has been a week since the win, and my notes are minimal. First off, some general notes about optimal piloting of Pyro Prison.
It's a Channel/Fireball deck as much as it's a Red Pillow Fort variant. Similar to Ad Nauseam / Scapeshift, when victory is secured (actual or a soft prison lock), we don't care about our life total or how many cards are in our hand. Thus, resource utilization is unconventional. Much of our deck is duplicate/redundant, although devastatingly effective, and the rest is acceleration. When you draw the 'wrong half' sometimes you have to lose ground to gain ground. O.K., so what's that mean as a step 1:
Mulligan. 7 cards with no scry isn't all that different than 6 cards with a scry. For those doubters, I'll argue by example. Consider other decks which rely upon Leyline of Sanctity or Leyline of the Void. If they don't draw a leyline, but do draw a good hand, they'll keep it. But, if their starting hand is only average without a precious Leyline, which equals a free, uncounterable casting and what might be a free win against the right opponent, then they will certainly mulligan! The power lock suite in Pyro Prison can be even more lethal than a pre-game free casting of a Leyline. So, carefully study the makeup of your hand, and try to forecast its ramp out. A Blood Moon without a Mana Accelerator, Chalice of the Void, Tormenting Voice or Gemstone Caverns on the draw? Ship it.
Tormenting Voice. It's the New Kid on the Block - the latest tech in our construction! Although Michael Villa and I have both gone Top 2 in StarCityGames IQ events with 0 Tormenting Voice, I see it as an improvement (others prefer Magma Jet for this slot). I played (10) rounds in this 1K. Guess how many times Tormenting Voice was counterspelled. None. Zero. Guess how many times I drew this card while hellbent? To the best of my recollection, Once. One time I drew this card while hellbent with an ensnaring bridge out looking at multiple Eldrazi Scion. But, it was a stalled board state, so no big deal. This 2-cmc sorcery blends beautifully into our mana curve, and it cycles out a redundant or ineffective lock piece. Lastly, an underwhelming starting 7 can be saved by a single Tormenting Voice. Of course, it's not without its faults. So, if the meta shifts from large creature attack (eldrazi/death's shadow/tarmo) to more of a lingering souls/affinity theme, then consider a pivot.
Know your opponent's deck. This is a 'sideboard deck', and you need a consummate understanding of the meta. There are (4) corners to this prison cell: Chalice of the Void, Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon, and Goblin Rabblemaster. An early drop of 1 or a combination of these cards can equal a near Scapeshift like win. So, the proper allocation of resources to speed these spells into play is critical.
If I know my opponent's deck, I must have this question already answered: It's Turn 1 - Given the choice, do I Chalice or Moon? Tip: Ensnaring Bridge can typically come out later than you think, but not against a deck that uses discard spells or one whose win-con is attack, but they also have counterspells. Lastly, a Turn 1 Goblin Rabblemaster off of Mutavault and (2) Simian Spirit Guide or Ritual effects will deliver 20 damage in (3) Turns. Three Turns: 1 damage, 9 damage, 10 damage. I wasn't kidding when I said Channel/Fireball deck.
Round 1 -- Grixis Death's Shadow: A very seasoned opponent. He won a Titanium 1K with this deck earlier in the year. Game 1: Turn 1 Blood Moon = GG. Game 2: His discard shredded the right pieces and Tasigur/Gurmag for the win. Game 3: Chalice on 1 followed by a Blood Moon. The win was a tricky dance with Pia and Kiran Thopter Standoff with a fair amount of mathing. In this matchup, mulligan aggressively as an early chalice/moon is devastating.
Spoiler Alert: You can watch the YouTube instead of reading the review -- overall, it's a pretty uneventful matchup.
Round 2 -- Ad Nauseam: Game 1: Blood Moon paired with an endless stream of non-basic lands on his side sealed the game. Goblin Rabblemaster was the clock. Game 2: He went off. Game 3: Chalice on 0 to stop Lotus Bloom and Chalice on 1 to stop Angel's Grace and Moon.
Round 3 -- G/W Hatebears: Game 1: I suffer a horrific mana screw. Game 2: I land a Koth of the Hammer on turn 2. He doesn't drop a creature threat in time, and the Ultimate secures my win. Game 3: Sideboarded cards come through: Grafdigger's Cage and Shattering Spree for the Æther Vial / Golems & a Blood Moon leveraged win.
Round 4 -- G/x Tron: Game 1: I suffer a horrific mana screw again. Game 2: A grinder with the MVP going to a Mutavault and a pair of Thopter Tokens. I was able to battle through the following concurrent plays by my opponent: Ugin, Karn, Karn, Wurmcoil Engine. Final win stroke was a Siege-Gang Commander play of robbing any lifegain on the W. Engine. Game 3: She goes tron land - expedition map. Turn 1 for me is a mountain. Turn 2 for her is the 2nd tron land and a popped map gaining her the 3rd necessary tron land in hand. Turn 2 for me is, get ready, Mountain, ritual, ritual, ritual and Chandra. Fire Chandra for 2 red and use the floating mana to slam a moon.
Round 5 -- Grixis Death's Shadow: Game 1 is a turn 1 chalice, and the same thing happened in Game 2. Thennnnn Moons and Bridges. See earlier comment about aggressive mulligans.
Round 6 -- Intentional Draw
Round 7 -- Intentional Draw
TOP 8
Round 1: Bant Eldrazi -- Game 1: Ensnaring Bridge is critical here, and I protected it alongside a churning Chandra to sidestep his endless blinking tricks. Game 2: He opens with a Noble Hierarch, and I drop a Gemstone Caverns. On my turn 1, I think hard, and then go Phyrexian Revoker naming Noble Hierarch. He's stymied, and dejectedly casts another one. I almost always hold Revoker for Engineered Explosives, but I saw an opening and I held a very aggressive hand. So, I followed with multiple Goblin Rabbles to be greeted by Eldrazi Displacers. I still had 1 more in hand, and Hazoret was already on the board. I sweep with a sweltering suns and swing for 5. The Rabble in hand wasn't even needed as my God finished the job on the next turn.
Semi-Finals: Abzan (jundy) -- Well, the Youtube is linked below. I could add commentary on this, but it's better to watch the play anyway. Game 1: I mull to 5, and take advantage of his heavy non-basic pulls, by mooning and slowly grabbing control in the face of what seemed like a loss. Game 2: He gets me with a strong draw. Game 3: I develop the board as if I willed each draw off the top.
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS3jiZSEE6c&t=448s
**EDIT** Caligula asked about this match-up and sideboarding options. First off, Abzan is the hardest sideboarding opponent. I struggle every single time. How do we handle the blood moon question? Do we abandon all (6) and adopt a new theme? Rarely. The answer has to do with the style of Abzan: are they running 4 birds of paradise and 4 noble hierarchs? Are they a Chord of Calling // Collected Company variant? If so, then focus on: Grafdigger's Cage / Torpor Orb / Chalice of the Void / Sweepers & probably a couple Magus get dropped. My semi-final opponent didn't seeeem to be running that after seeing 1 game of his play, so I opted to keep the Moons and drop the Chalices. My thinking was that the Moons can double as a chalice-lock against his style of deck: He most likely runs 1-drops in all (3) colors and it seemed to be very traditional Jund in construction. Luckily, I was right. Sidenote: the best way to beat Jund is a fast blood moon. Last sidenote on Caligula's concern on Tormenting Voice versus Affinity, I agree on dropping it after round 1 versus them, but it still holds so much game against much of the field. Again, this card can not be fully understood without playing it.
So, it's a pretty Spartan write-up. As frequent visitors know, I'm not much for detailed and involved Tourney Reports. My literary efforts get invested elsewhere.
Lastly, deck changes!!! So, if I were to do it all over again, I can tell one alteration that's at the top of my list: Sideboard - Anger of the Gods (3) spot. Increase my count to (3). I got lucky with my matchups this time around, but juuuust 1 more which pushes my count to (5) [including (2) Sweltering Suns - oh, and Ratchet Bomb] does seem prudent. I'm also considering a 2nd Phyrexian Revoker for the sideboard to battle: Engineered Explosives, Tron, Walking Ballista. There are more fringe considerations that continue to get tested, but for now....for today....for Koth, King, and Kountry, Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!
First: a standing ovation to Raystack for the awesome, awesome finish. ;-)
I thought I'd pitch in on the whole Tormenting Voice debate. I was very skeptical at first, being very attached to the 4x Magma Jet I've been running for months. Still, I felt it was worth trying.
I've played a few weeks of FNM with 0x Magma Jet, 3x Tormenting Voice. Then a split of 2x Magma Jet and 2x Tormenting Voice.
MAGMA JET
Great to burn away Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch and other mana dorks. It feels silly to let one of these slip through on turn one, then slam a Blood Moon just too late. I've faced several combo decks where "bolting the bird" right away (rather than waiting until I found a sweeper) would have gained me an extra turn before they went off.
Great at setting up future draws. Magma Jet allows you to sequence your next turn, or stack things in the right order for Chandra, Torch of Defiance's +1. Also works well with Sin Prodder (if anyone else besides me runs it).
It acts as a combat trick. After you've played a Magma Jet once and you're attacking with untapped mana, your opponent will keep it in mind. That means they could think twice about blocking your 1/1 "Suicide Goblin" from Goblin Rabblemaster with a bigger creature. You can also use it alongside one of your 2/2 creatures to take down a 4/4 Thought-Knot Seer or other big threat, whether attacking or blocking, for example.
2 damage to the face is still 2 damage to the face. I've lost plenty of games where I was very close to finishing off my opponent, but they ended up stabilizing the board and I entered "top deck" mode. That 2 damage represents one more Chandra activation, one turn closer to winning.
TORMENTING VOICE
Helps with the mana-fixing. To me, that's the biggest advantage over Magma Jet. If I miss a land drop, I can cast Tormenting Voice and draw the land I need -right away- rather than having to wait until my next draw step. That's also true of anything you could need "right now" (ex: specific sideboard cards).
Allows you to run fewer lands. Running Magma Jet and 22 lands, I ended up mana-screwed or mana-flooded on a regular basis. Since running Tormenting Voice, I've felt better consistency, even after dropping down to 21 lands.
It provides zero information to your opponent. If you Magma Jet and scry "top-top" or "top-bottom", your opponent can expect you've found what you're looking for, that something could impact the game next turn, and plan accordingly (ex: not tap out this turn and keep up a counterspell). Tormenting Voice just draws you cards "blindly".
I'll also second that I've never had Tormenting Voice countered, and if I did, I'd be down "1x card I didn't need + 1x Tormenting Voice", which sounds like a decent trade for 1x counterspell.
So far, I've never lost a game because I was stuck with Tormenting Voice... though I've lost a few where Tormenting Voice wasn't a Magma Jet. And vice-versa.
So on my end, at the moment, I'm settling on a 2/2 split.
Heya and congratulations on your success with such a cool and original deck!
i wonder if you could talk about some of your sideboard choices and the plan behind it? The sideboard seems very "random" to me, but im sure there's a plan behind it and I'd love to hear it. Also what's your worst matchups with this deck? And why?
Insightful write-up on the comparison, and I think it was needed, JFMajor. And, according to our esteemed benefactor of media, Official Primer Banner Designer, he has settled on....a tie: 2/2 split. Personally, I'm on a 3/1 split. More testing, More testing, More testing!
Tormenting Voice is the newest mechanic we've tried, and on the surface....it looks kind of underwhelming. Not unreasonable to believe that's why it took 18 months to seriously put eyes on the card. I have written a good deal about its merit, but consider the following: Magma Jet is usually there as an assist to Ensnaring Bridge (sure, sure dork killer and infinite g/w loop creatures notwithstanding). Tormenting Voice usually sees its most appreciation when I am digging to get to a bridge. With a bridge, I don't need magma jet as much. But, there are decks, like Gobots/8-Wack, where an early Magma Jet is gold.
One more thought on T. Voice, and this may sound wonky. It's mid-late game, and the board state is stalled. I've got enough lands in play, so I hold one back in my hand (or maybe it's 3rd moon or anything inadequate). QUESTION: In the blind and knowing nothing about the game or my opponent, what would you name as the single best card I could draw? ANSWER: Tormenting Voice. Why? Volume. I'm drawing (2) cards, not (1).
@Tricez: Sideboarding Commentary, eh? Yeah, always a popular request. Our designs are still diverse enough, that there is no standard canon on point-for-point swaps. But, luckily, most people play net decks, so we can forecast their plays. So, since we are a partially 'pre-sideboarded' deck (just our style) in game 1, we are able to evolve from partial into a full-on bad matchup for the opponent in games 2 & 3 = Sideboarding: It is the cornerstone to our ethos.
Ethos. Definition: "the characteristic spirit of a culture, era, or community as manifested in its beliefs and aspirations"
2nd: G/W/x Coco/Chord/Spell Queller can be irksome, and far more commonplace than Blue Tron. As such, my sideboard has morphed into much more hostile to them. It used to be that I feared Burn more than I had to, so I was allocating too much to them. The fear here is that their card economy is unreal. It seems that all of their cards are 2-for-1, and they keep recurring.
ADD: (7) 2 Grafdigger's Cage, 1 Torpor Orb, 2 Anger of the Gods, 1 Spellskite, and 1 Ratchet Bomb
REMOVE: Ummm...Nothing? As I've said more than once, this is our hardest swap out. First, you gotta figure if you're ditching operation moon, and then....hmmmm, hmmmmm...Haha. I seemingly approach it differently every time as Abzan/u decks are so varied in construction and theme
With the exception of the legacy cards that we cannot play, there was one card in there that peaked my interest that I do not think we have discussed among the Mountainfolk.
I think it's a spicy little card and i'm laughing a little bit at the fact that our deck shuts people down with Ensnaring Bridge and then we use that bridge to beat them over their heads. Not sure if it will make it into my list personally but I felt it was worth sharing with you all :).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern - Pyro Prison
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
@Vegita1998: I see a lot of attraction in having a repeatable source of damage *that can target creatures*. But personally, I also see too many downsides for it to be worth it.
Legacy Moon Stompy has the luxury of packing a whopping 15 artifacts, meaning you always have a great target for Quicksmith Rebel. You can use it to empower an otherwise non-threatening Chrome Mox, meaning an opponent with artifact destruction must choose between destroying a Chalice of the Void, and Ensnaring Bridge or "that other thing that pings for 2 dmg per turn".
With just 8 artifacts, and all of them crucial to the game plan, I think the Modern version has fewer targets... and Quicksmith Rebel quickly turns lock pieces into prime "2 for 1" targets against artifact removal.
Looking at Raystack's list, it feels like Hazoret the Fervent fills a similar role (despite not pinging off creatures), at the same CMC, but being much more difficult to deal with.
Speaking of shopping around for new sideboard options for Pyro Prison, has anybody else seen this grainy, vintage-looking commercial on television? It shows a typical, suburban home, and the voice-over announcer makes inquiries of the wife who's looking into the camera....
""" Ma'am, do you struggle with basic lands emerging, like crabgrass, in the flower beds?
Do planeswalkers plug up your tubs and sinks?
And, how about your husband's artifacts cluttering up the living room that stinks of your dog's auras?
As for Karn, I just don't know.. That commercial gets me every time though, but with no money back guarantee, I'll let you guys try it before I invest! Haha
Played at FNm last night with a list very close to Raystack's latest version...went 2-2 on the night and then left due to a lack of air conditioning and a splitting headache....was just no fun and I made some mental errors in the second loss due to the conditions.
Brief overview....I'm not a fan of Tormenting voice...I did loose two games last night into drawing it while hellbent against Eldrazi and then got swarmed by Spawn tokens, then another game loss due to drawing it hellbent against the Copy Cat combo deck while hiding behind a bridge with control of the game. So I'm going back to the 4 copies of Magma Jet as my personal preference.
Not saying Voice is bad, just I've had some worse luck than Raystack has had with it, and I think the flexibility of the burn spell in the deck against mana dorks and such is worth it.
Was able to solidify the SB a bit with Torpor and Witchbane orb....still looking for another Magus for the MD.
@mvilla -- It's the season of our discontent. By that I mean, LGS stores are off-season in the warm months. The industry simply doesn't offer enough of a profit margin to provide air conditioning, and we all suffer as such. It's a bummer.
As for the misses on Tormenting Voice, I respect your feedback. I also appreciate the 'paint-yourself-into-a-corner' scenarios that can occur with this volatile card. If you start to see a shift from Big Beaters (eldrazi/tarmo/death's shadow/primeval titan/living end/lord Decks: (merfolk-elves) --- not too mention creatureless decks -- and transferring into a predominant meta of 1-powered creature landscape (eldrazi scion/affinity/saheeli) then the sneaky plays of free 'looting' come at a severe cost. Watch for the shifts very carefully. For now, I have had success with my hand in the cookie jar: i.e. "being hellbent with a single tormenting voice in hand".
>>> When you mention the Eldrazi Scion and Saheeli Rai screw occurred, the question I have is: "Which game did you get hosed in?". If it's Game 1, then the gamble for advantage with T. Voice was a losing throw of the dice. Happens. If it's game 2/3, then we have had the opportunity to sideboard out this 'low risk/high reward' card. I know you're a sharp player, Mike, but it's just a reminder to all to be cognizant of this disadvantaged paradigm, and know to get that Tormenting Voice out of the main deck and into the sideboard. Other examples of this sort of scenario is when you face Soul Sisters or B/W Tokens or Lingering Souls decks. Be mindful of your cookie hand, mountainfolk.
@jipisuciou77: Welcome - Welcome - Welcome. Flip back a few pages to see some of the groups' thoughts on Mishra's Bauble. It has it's ups/downs, but if I had to choose a cantrip. If I had to. I'd probably opt for Manamorphose, but I wouldn't endorse either - necessarily. That said, I've tried 'em - not horrible options...just that our core list isn't sooooo small that we need to accelerate that hard to find our wincons. A li'l patience will pay off.
@valleysdai: I can get behind Outpost Siege. We actually had Avaricious Dragon in the original draft of this archetype, but the prolific use of ensnaring bridge put the axe on that idea.
Where to start - Where to start? Well, it all started 23 years ago when I returned from my freshman year at college. Joining friends at a gaming store, I purchased my first Revised Edition Starter Pack. No, let's fast forward to the good stuff. O.K. I started this thread which launched the archetype of Pyro Prison in January of 2016. We've racked up 15 pages of collaborative contributions from our phenomenal mountain folk with real groundbreaking wisdom. I've taken the deck to (4) Premier Events in the last 6 months. I missed TOP 8 in one of the events, but otherwise finished 5th, 2nd, and 1st. Also, our own Michael Villa split 1st place in a 62-person event in March. So, it's feeling very real. I will be putting in a request to MTGsalvation to elevate our status out of "Deck Creation".
Videos! Let's see some hot Flameswalker action: Koth's Mountain-Fisted Uppercuts and Chandra's Immolating Jets of Fire. Done. Here are (3) Videos.
The Semi-Finals
Pyro Prison versus Abzan Aggro (Jund-ish)
Round 1, I mull down to 5 which tilts me, but it gets better after that. This is a tough matchup for us, and sideboarding is difficult. I can only recall that I dropped (4) Chalice of the Void for (2) Anger of the Gods, (1) Ratchet Bomb, and (1) Spellskite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS3jiZSEE6c
The Finals
Pyro Prison versus Patriot Aggro (Spirit-ish)
Get ready for 3 nail-biting rounds. 52 minutes of action!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICqzzQ72U9g&t=431s
The Interview
Zach Hall sits down with me to discuss the state of mono-red affairs and how an unlikely rogue deck has proven itself as an elite contender.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDgOgwMHVfc&t=9s
You'll quickly realize that the production values for the filming were top notch, 3 cameras, and the commentary by Zack Hall is extraordinarily insightful and entertaining. It's clear that he has read our thread, and understands the positioning of Pyro Prison in the Modern meta. Enjoy the shows, and I welcome any questions/critiques about my gameplay. A tourney report is forthcoming, and thanks for the shoutouts/congrats guys!
1st Place - 72 Players - 1K
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15802&f=MO
@Valleysdai: The commentator's suggestion was incorrect. He believed that I could cast Goblin Rabblemaster in the 2nd main phase, and still get a 1/1 goblin. As we all know, the goblin gets generated at the beginning of the attack phase.
Looking back, would I make any swaps in the main or sideboard? Honestly, for what I see in my meta, I can definitely see an extra Anger of the Gods in the SB and maybe an extra Phyrexian Revoker there as well, and maybe another Magma Jet in the maindeck. Alright, The top 8 decks, as I recall, were:
1 - Merfolk
1 - Bant Eldrazi
1 - Abzan (jundy)
1 - Patriot Spirits
1 - Pyro Prison
1 - BUG Delirium
2 - Grixis Death's Shadow
I wish I faced Grixis Death's Shadow! I've probably played 60+ paper tournament games in 2017, faced a sizable number of GDS decks, and don't believe I have lost a round to them - they're just a tremendously good matchup for us. For some reason, the tourney results still haven't made it onto MTGtop8.com and the store's website is down But, the videos serve as testament to the win -- unless it's all a massive conspiracy: Fake Tourneys! Fake Tourneys! Ha -
Hazoret the Fervent. Yeah, I'll stick with her. I like having the extra aggressive line. She did win me one game in the first round of the top 8 versus Bant Eldrazi. The two damage seems small, but folks do fetch their own life down, and Hazoret can tip the win in your favor after the game has settled down into a stalled board state.
Spec.Ops has gone and done foiled out his whole Pyro Prison deck?!?!? Soooo Boss. That's one way to hush up a naysayer that doubts the legitimacy of our clan. You mentioned MTGO not working out, but have you tried Cockatrice? It's serviceable. But, folks do tend to be net deck snobs - can be tiresome to hear their ill-informed opinions about Red Prison strategy as something less than competitive. That's why we gotta spread the Good Word, LindonMichael! Teach the heathens!
I did fire off a request to KtKenshinx, an old buddy, to get elevated in the forums.
As far as the list goes, my line of thinking has shifted toward yours as of late, starting with ritual count. Powering out a lock piece on t1 or t2 is obviously vital, but following up with a threat a turn or two early is certainly GG. It also justifies the inclusion of the goblin we've all been flirting with, Siege-Gang Commander. My initial trepidation was, as you stated, the "air" it puts in the deck, which is why I went with just 3 in my cantrip-heavy build. As I took my leap of faith, I quickly realized the value in Tormenting Voice, with one asterisk, however.. Affinity. Looking at recent top 8s, it's still very prevalent. Sandbagging a card or topdecking 'The Voice' could be more troublesome than a night with Miley Cyrus and no Penicillin, and while it may not be cause for concern locally, it's something to keep in mind if you're taking on a GP or something.
To sum it up, you definitely made us proud, Ray. After watching you on video and what we already knew about you from this thread, it's clear that you're a great guy that's fun to be around, and with a 5 DIGIT DCI NUMBER, you've surely forgotten more about this game than most of us will ever learn. Your passion for this deck is what made me choose it over more developed archetypes. I just had to be a part of this rogue deck that is going to take over the modern world. We've all piggybacked off of your work in some way, and you've proven our deck is a force to be reckoned with. I'm happy to be a part of our team! As our leader, and with a DCI number like yours, I dub thee;
THE GRANDDADDY OF PYRO PRISON!
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
Did see one other player at the 17 man event sporting a lot of mountains, didn't get a chance to talk to him though.
Still have all the confidence in the world in taking the deck to the Invitational in a couple of weeks. Can't wait - please let me know if anyone here is attending and we can discuss the deck.
Mike
@Mvilla888: 1-2 records happen. Heck, look at the stats: most 1-2 starts in tournaments come from top-tier decks (roughly - just mean to say you can't 'win' a victory by copying a net deck), so I'm glad you're not down on Pyro Prison. 3 Death's Shadow decks, eh? Which kind: Grixis or Jund or Esper? Grixis gets hosed by Chalice as they typically run (25) 1-cmc spells, and Esper is the new flavor of the month - it's still developing its decklist. Overall, I love facing these decks. Like you said, Bridge for the win, chalice for the lock, and tormenting voice to get you there. For sideboarding: I suggest Ratchet Bomb, Hazoret the Fervent, Spellskite...Word of Seizing? I think this card will find itself swapped for a 3rd Anger of the Gods. WoS is my latest addition - wondering about it's applications. I did pull this li'l gem off in an FNM: Facing Skred, I stole his Koth of the Hammer on (2) and drained it out. Then I used the mana to cast a Chandra, Torch of Defiance!
Well, Thanks. Many thanks to the folks writing into the thread and sending PMs. I swung by my packed LGS, TJ's in Milford, last night (50+ mages), and was greeted with heaps of fanfare and ass-slapping atta'boys. With good reason: like my thread kin, they know that they shared in my win. That victory was forged in the crucible of all of our shared testing, grinding out games, talking strategy, and developing winning lines of play. Huzzah! And, since we've been published in MTGtop8.com again the word is out now!
Blah-Blah-Blah Personal Player Profile Follows:
Speaking of "The Word is Out". Caligula mentioned the brevity of my DCI number: 5 digits. In (16) pages of this thread, I haven't bothered with any personal Magic history: No Player Profile. But, what the heck, soooo I started chucking cardboard in the pre-internet days - the wild west. There was no international community...no national community. It was every man for himself. Very Luckily, I fell in with the Boston area elite. I played many times - won & lost - with the first 2 Magic World Champions, counted Billy Jensen as a pal, qualified for Pro Tour Atlanta in '96, and ranked in the top 200 limited players in the world that same year. I left Magic some time later, and stayed away for more than a decade. Coming back, I dabbled with rogue archetypes --- always turning my back on net decks. 18 months ago inspiration struck. Alongside other Mountainfolk, the journey began. This time: it wasn't every man for himself. So, bully for us! I suppose that's enough babble already. Next up is the Tourney Report. Let's keep it going - Watch for Michael Villa to climb that winner's podium at the StarCityGames Invitational in a few weeks. Let's Goooooo. Let's Gooooooo.
The single most important point: This is definitively not an isolated win. Within this thread, We have (5) documented top-tier tournament reports within the last several months, Premier Event Classification, and we pulled down (4) Top 8 Finishes out of (5) --- 4 out of 5. That's extraordinarily impressive, and can be seen in the Official Primer. Anyhoo....
Finally, here it is. I don't anticipate it to be all that involved as it has been a week since the win, and my notes are minimal. First off, some general notes about optimal piloting of Pyro Prison.
It's a Channel/Fireball deck as much as it's a Red Pillow Fort variant. Similar to Ad Nauseam / Scapeshift, when victory is secured (actual or a soft prison lock), we don't care about our life total or how many cards are in our hand. Thus, resource utilization is unconventional. Much of our deck is duplicate/redundant, although devastatingly effective, and the rest is acceleration. When you draw the 'wrong half' sometimes you have to lose ground to gain ground. O.K., so what's that mean as a step 1:
Mulligan. 7 cards with no scry isn't all that different than 6 cards with a scry. For those doubters, I'll argue by example. Consider other decks which rely upon Leyline of Sanctity or Leyline of the Void. If they don't draw a leyline, but do draw a good hand, they'll keep it. But, if their starting hand is only average without a precious Leyline, which equals a free, uncounterable casting and what might be a free win against the right opponent, then they will certainly mulligan! The power lock suite in Pyro Prison can be even more lethal than a pre-game free casting of a Leyline. So, carefully study the makeup of your hand, and try to forecast its ramp out. A Blood Moon without a Mana Accelerator, Chalice of the Void, Tormenting Voice or Gemstone Caverns on the draw? Ship it.
Tormenting Voice. It's the New Kid on the Block - the latest tech in our construction! Although Michael Villa and I have both gone Top 2 in StarCityGames IQ events with 0 Tormenting Voice, I see it as an improvement (others prefer Magma Jet for this slot). I played (10) rounds in this 1K. Guess how many times Tormenting Voice was counterspelled. None. Zero. Guess how many times I drew this card while hellbent? To the best of my recollection, Once. One time I drew this card while hellbent with an ensnaring bridge out looking at multiple Eldrazi Scion. But, it was a stalled board state, so no big deal. This 2-cmc sorcery blends beautifully into our mana curve, and it cycles out a redundant or ineffective lock piece. Lastly, an underwhelming starting 7 can be saved by a single Tormenting Voice. Of course, it's not without its faults. So, if the meta shifts from large creature attack (eldrazi/death's shadow/tarmo) to more of a lingering souls/affinity theme, then consider a pivot.
Know your opponent's deck. This is a 'sideboard deck', and you need a consummate understanding of the meta. There are (4) corners to this prison cell: Chalice of the Void, Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon, and Goblin Rabblemaster. An early drop of 1 or a combination of these cards can equal a near Scapeshift like win. So, the proper allocation of resources to speed these spells into play is critical.
If I know my opponent's deck, I must have this question already answered: It's Turn 1 - Given the choice, do I Chalice or Moon? Tip: Ensnaring Bridge can typically come out later than you think, but not against a deck that uses discard spells or one whose win-con is attack, but they also have counterspells. Lastly, a Turn 1 Goblin Rabblemaster off of Mutavault and (2) Simian Spirit Guide or Ritual effects will deliver 20 damage in (3) Turns. Three Turns: 1 damage, 9 damage, 10 damage. I wasn't kidding when I said Channel/Fireball deck.
Creatures (8)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Siege-Gang Commander
Accelerators (12)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
3 Tormenting Voice
Enchantments (4)
4 Blood Moon
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
Artifacts (8)
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
Disruption (3)
2 Sweltering Suns
1 Magma Jet
Lands (21)
17 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mutavault
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Shattering Spree
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Torpor Orb
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Ricochet Trap
1 Dragon's Claw
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Spellskite
1 Word of Seizing
And, now for a rather lackluster accounting of a tournament gone by...
Here are the Top 8 decklists. http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=15802&d=297001&f=MO
Round 1 -- Grixis Death's Shadow: A very seasoned opponent. He won a Titanium 1K with this deck earlier in the year. Game 1: Turn 1 Blood Moon = GG. Game 2: His discard shredded the right pieces and Tasigur/Gurmag for the win. Game 3: Chalice on 1 followed by a Blood Moon. The win was a tricky dance with Pia and Kiran Thopter Standoff with a fair amount of mathing. In this matchup, mulligan aggressively as an early chalice/moon is devastating.
Spoiler Alert: You can watch the YouTube instead of reading the review -- overall, it's a pretty uneventful matchup.
Round 2 -- Ad Nauseam: Game 1: Blood Moon paired with an endless stream of non-basic lands on his side sealed the game. Goblin Rabblemaster was the clock. Game 2: He went off. Game 3: Chalice on 0 to stop Lotus Bloom and Chalice on 1 to stop Angel's Grace and Moon.
Round 3 -- G/W Hatebears: Game 1: I suffer a horrific mana screw. Game 2: I land a Koth of the Hammer on turn 2. He doesn't drop a creature threat in time, and the Ultimate secures my win. Game 3: Sideboarded cards come through: Grafdigger's Cage and Shattering Spree for the Æther Vial / Golems & a Blood Moon leveraged win.
Round 4 -- G/x Tron: Game 1: I suffer a horrific mana screw again. Game 2: A grinder with the MVP going to a Mutavault and a pair of Thopter Tokens. I was able to battle through the following concurrent plays by my opponent: Ugin, Karn, Karn, Wurmcoil Engine. Final win stroke was a Siege-Gang Commander play of robbing any lifegain on the W. Engine. Game 3: She goes tron land - expedition map. Turn 1 for me is a mountain. Turn 2 for her is the 2nd tron land and a popped map gaining her the 3rd necessary tron land in hand. Turn 2 for me is, get ready, Mountain, ritual, ritual, ritual and Chandra. Fire Chandra for 2 red and use the floating mana to slam a moon.
Round 5 -- Grixis Death's Shadow: Game 1 is a turn 1 chalice, and the same thing happened in Game 2. Thennnnn Moons and Bridges. See earlier comment about aggressive mulligans.
Round 6 -- Intentional Draw
Round 7 -- Intentional Draw
TOP 8
Round 1: Bant Eldrazi -- Game 1: Ensnaring Bridge is critical here, and I protected it alongside a churning Chandra to sidestep his endless blinking tricks. Game 2: He opens with a Noble Hierarch, and I drop a Gemstone Caverns. On my turn 1, I think hard, and then go Phyrexian Revoker naming Noble Hierarch. He's stymied, and dejectedly casts another one. I almost always hold Revoker for Engineered Explosives, but I saw an opening and I held a very aggressive hand. So, I followed with multiple Goblin Rabbles to be greeted by Eldrazi Displacers. I still had 1 more in hand, and Hazoret was already on the board. I sweep with a sweltering suns and swing for 5. The Rabble in hand wasn't even needed as my God finished the job on the next turn.
Semi-Finals: Abzan (jundy) -- Well, the Youtube is linked below. I could add commentary on this, but it's better to watch the play anyway. Game 1: I mull to 5, and take advantage of his heavy non-basic pulls, by mooning and slowly grabbing control in the face of what seemed like a loss. Game 2: He gets me with a strong draw. Game 3: I develop the board as if I willed each draw off the top.
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS3jiZSEE6c&t=448s
**EDIT** Caligula asked about this match-up and sideboarding options. First off, Abzan is the hardest sideboarding opponent. I struggle every single time. How do we handle the blood moon question? Do we abandon all (6) and adopt a new theme? Rarely. The answer has to do with the style of Abzan: are they running 4 birds of paradise and 4 noble hierarchs? Are they a Chord of Calling // Collected Company variant? If so, then focus on: Grafdigger's Cage / Torpor Orb / Chalice of the Void / Sweepers & probably a couple Magus get dropped. My semi-final opponent didn't seeeem to be running that after seeing 1 game of his play, so I opted to keep the Moons and drop the Chalices. My thinking was that the Moons can double as a chalice-lock against his style of deck: He most likely runs 1-drops in all (3) colors and it seemed to be very traditional Jund in construction. Luckily, I was right. Sidenote: the best way to beat Jund is a fast blood moon. Last sidenote on Caligula's concern on Tormenting Voice versus Affinity, I agree on dropping it after round 1 versus them, but it still holds so much game against much of the field. Again, this card can not be fully understood without playing it.
Finals: Patriot/Geist -- They're good matches. Watch 'em!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICqzzQ72U9g&t=1715s
So, it's a pretty Spartan write-up. As frequent visitors know, I'm not much for detailed and involved Tourney Reports. My literary efforts get invested elsewhere.
Lastly, deck changes!!! So, if I were to do it all over again, I can tell one alteration that's at the top of my list: Sideboard - Anger of the Gods (3) spot. Increase my count to (3). I got lucky with my matchups this time around, but juuuust 1 more which pushes my count to (5) [including (2) Sweltering Suns - oh, and Ratchet Bomb] does seem prudent. I'm also considering a 2nd Phyrexian Revoker for the sideboard to battle: Engineered Explosives, Tron, Walking Ballista. There are more fringe considerations that continue to get tested, but for now....for today....for Koth, King, and Kountry, Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!
First: a standing ovation to Raystack for the awesome, awesome finish. ;-)
I thought I'd pitch in on the whole Tormenting Voice debate. I was very skeptical at first, being very attached to the 4x Magma Jet I've been running for months. Still, I felt it was worth trying.
I've played a few weeks of FNM with 0x Magma Jet, 3x Tormenting Voice. Then a split of 2x Magma Jet and 2x Tormenting Voice.
MAGMA JET
TORMENTING VOICE
I'll also second that I've never had Tormenting Voice countered, and if I did, I'd be down "1x card I didn't need + 1x Tormenting Voice", which sounds like a decent trade for 1x counterspell.
So far, I've never lost a game because I was stuck with Tormenting Voice... though I've lost a few where Tormenting Voice wasn't a Magma Jet. And vice-versa.
So on my end, at the moment, I'm settling on a 2/2 split.
i wonder if you could talk about some of your sideboard choices and the plan behind it? The sideboard seems very "random" to me, but im sure there's a plan behind it and I'd love to hear it. Also what's your worst matchups with this deck? And why?
Thanks!
Tormenting Voice is the newest mechanic we've tried, and on the surface....it looks kind of underwhelming. Not unreasonable to believe that's why it took 18 months to seriously put eyes on the card. I have written a good deal about its merit, but consider the following: Magma Jet is usually there as an assist to Ensnaring Bridge (sure, sure dork killer and infinite g/w loop creatures notwithstanding). Tormenting Voice usually sees its most appreciation when I am digging to get to a bridge. With a bridge, I don't need magma jet as much. But, there are decks, like Gobots/8-Wack, where an early Magma Jet is gold.
One more thought on T. Voice, and this may sound wonky. It's mid-late game, and the board state is stalled. I've got enough lands in play, so I hold one back in my hand (or maybe it's 3rd moon or anything inadequate). QUESTION: In the blind and knowing nothing about the game or my opponent, what would you name as the single best card I could draw? ANSWER: Tormenting Voice. Why? Volume. I'm drawing (2) cards, not (1).
@Tricez: Sideboarding Commentary, eh? Yeah, always a popular request. Our designs are still diverse enough, that there is no standard canon on point-for-point swaps. But, luckily, most people play net decks, so we can forecast their plays. So, since we are a partially 'pre-sideboarded' deck (just our style) in game 1, we are able to evolve from partial into a full-on bad matchup for the opponent in games 2 & 3 = Sideboarding: It is the cornerstone to our ethos.
Ethos. Definition: "the characteristic spirit of a culture, era, or community as manifested in its beliefs and aspirations"
Let's look at it through the lens of our two most unfavorable matchups:
1st Blue Tron . For Tron, they are least affected by the 'Power Lock Suite': Moon/Chalice/Bridge. So, in order to win, we have to transition to be as aggressive as possible in order to overwhelm. As such, I turn to: Hazoret the Fervent, Phyrexian Revoker, and Word of Seizing. And, then we bring in our own counterspell/removal arsenal: Ricochet Trap, and Shattering Spree. The key to this win is the 4th corner of the prison cell, the 5th Beatle, Goblin Rabblemaster.
ADD: Those (6) Cards
REMOVE: 2 sweltering sun, 1 magma jet, 1 ensnaring bridge, 1 Chalice of the Void, 1 Blood moon
Ruling Question: Does Torpor Orb turn off Phyrexian Revoker? Because I take exception to their Treasure Mage and Solemn Simulacrum and Sundering Titan. It seems like an obvious 'yes', but P. Revoker has some very tricky rulings.
SIDEBOARD WISHLIST (cards 16+): Boil, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Harsh Mentor, Tezzeret's Gambit, Koth of the Hammer, and Karn Liberated.
2nd: G/W/x Coco/Chord/Spell Queller can be irksome, and far more commonplace than Blue Tron. As such, my sideboard has morphed into much more hostile to them. It used to be that I feared Burn more than I had to, so I was allocating too much to them. The fear here is that their card economy is unreal. It seems that all of their cards are 2-for-1, and they keep recurring.
ADD: (7) 2 Grafdigger's Cage, 1 Torpor Orb, 2 Anger of the Gods, 1 Spellskite, and 1 Ratchet Bomb
REMOVE: Ummm...Nothing? As I've said more than once, this is our hardest swap out. First, you gotta figure if you're ditching operation moon, and then....hmmmm, hmmmmm...Haha. I seemingly approach it differently every time as Abzan/u decks are so varied in construction and theme
https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-mengucci-legacy-moon-stompy/
With the exception of the legacy cards that we cannot play, there was one card in there that peaked my interest that I do not think we have discussed among the Mountainfolk.
There is a single copy of Quicksmith Rebel.
I think it's a spicy little card and i'm laughing a little bit at the fact that our deck shuts people down with Ensnaring Bridge and then we use that bridge to beat them over their heads. Not sure if it will make it into my list personally but I felt it was worth sharing with you all :).
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
Legacy Moon Stompy has the luxury of packing a whopping 15 artifacts, meaning you always have a great target for Quicksmith Rebel. You can use it to empower an otherwise non-threatening Chrome Mox, meaning an opponent with artifact destruction must choose between destroying a Chalice of the Void, and Ensnaring Bridge or "that other thing that pings for 2 dmg per turn".
With just 8 artifacts, and all of them crucial to the game plan, I think the Modern version has fewer targets... and Quicksmith Rebel quickly turns lock pieces into prime "2 for 1" targets against artifact removal.
Looking at Raystack's list, it feels like Hazoret the Fervent fills a similar role (despite not pinging off creatures), at the same CMC, but being much more difficult to deal with.
Still, looking at that Legacy list... how I envy those glorious Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors!
""" Ma'am, do you struggle with basic lands emerging, like crabgrass, in the flower beds?
Do planeswalkers plug up your tubs and sinks?
And, how about your husband's artifacts cluttering up the living room that stinks of your dog's auras?
Well, try new Karn Liberated today!
It's just like original Karn, only Liberated.
A sensible choice for today's modern home. """
Gotta wonder though, is it?
For sure! Chrome Mox would be great too, and of course, Fiery Confluence would be perfect.
As for Karn, I just don't know.. That commercial gets me every time though, but with no money back guarantee, I'll let you guys try it before I invest! Haha
He's clearly no Slap-Chop, that's for sure..
Brief overview....I'm not a fan of Tormenting voice...I did loose two games last night into drawing it while hellbent against Eldrazi and then got swarmed by Spawn tokens, then another game loss due to drawing it hellbent against the Copy Cat combo deck while hiding behind a bridge with control of the game. So I'm going back to the 4 copies of Magma Jet as my personal preference.
Not saying Voice is bad, just I've had some worse luck than Raystack has had with it, and I think the flexibility of the burn spell in the deck against mana dorks and such is worth it.
Was able to solidify the SB a bit with Torpor and Witchbane orb....still looking for another Magus for the MD.
Two weeks to go before the big event. Can's wait.
Mike
As for the misses on Tormenting Voice, I respect your feedback. I also appreciate the 'paint-yourself-into-a-corner' scenarios that can occur with this volatile card. If you start to see a shift from Big Beaters (eldrazi/tarmo/death's shadow/primeval titan/living end/lord Decks: (merfolk-elves) --- not too mention creatureless decks -- and transferring into a predominant meta of 1-powered creature landscape (eldrazi scion/affinity/saheeli) then the sneaky plays of free 'looting' come at a severe cost. Watch for the shifts very carefully. For now, I have had success with my hand in the cookie jar: i.e. "being hellbent with a single tormenting voice in hand".
>>> When you mention the Eldrazi Scion and Saheeli Rai screw occurred, the question I have is: "Which game did you get hosed in?". If it's Game 1, then the gamble for advantage with T. Voice was a losing throw of the dice. Happens. If it's game 2/3, then we have had the opportunity to sideboard out this 'low risk/high reward' card. I know you're a sharp player, Mike, but it's just a reminder to all to be cognizant of this disadvantaged paradigm, and know to get that Tormenting Voice out of the main deck and into the sideboard. Other examples of this sort of scenario is when you face Soul Sisters or B/W Tokens or Lingering Souls decks. Be mindful of your cookie hand, mountainfolk.
@jipisuciou77: Welcome - Welcome - Welcome. Flip back a few pages to see some of the groups' thoughts on Mishra's Bauble. It has it's ups/downs, but if I had to choose a cantrip. If I had to. I'd probably opt for Manamorphose, but I wouldn't endorse either - necessarily. That said, I've tried 'em - not horrible options...just that our core list isn't sooooo small that we need to accelerate that hard to find our wincons. A li'l patience will pay off.
@valleysdai: I can get behind Outpost Siege. We actually had Avaricious Dragon in the original draft of this archetype, but the prolific use of ensnaring bridge put the axe on that idea.