Hey guys, fairly new to the prison strategy and love reading through this stuff to learn. Hopefully after some more experience I can give some input/ideas.
@Stickballruss: Sharp observation on Combust making a comeback. What was once a card specifically engineered to combat Splinter Twin decks has now got usage against the newest of scourge Thing in the Ice. It's narrow, but also the perfect answer card to a deck that's dominating the meta these days. Restoration Angel, yeah. Spirits. And, anything that knocks Thalia on her buttocks is fine by me.
If 4 toughness is the biggest thing we will typically see with Resto Angel and Thing, is it worth running Rending Volley instead of Combust?
Combust is favored because you don't want to end up countering your own spells with Vial. It's kind of a nonbo with one of our main lock pieces, especially since one of the best plays we can make in general is a turn one Chalice on one.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Combust is favored because you don't want to end up countering your own spells with Vial. It's kind of a nonbo with one of our main lock pieces, especially since one of the best plays we can make in general is a turn one Chalice on one.
You are correct, Joker, that nonbos with Chalice should be avoided if at all possible, but just to note, rending volley cannot be countered by spells or abilities. So as well as a warm welcome to Gimps, if 4 is the magic toughness number in the current meta then Rending Volley is better than Combust. Combust does kill the angels from control sideboard and as far as I can see from mtgtop8s list, those are the only creatures really played in modern that rending volley can’t kill but combust can.
Right, total brain fart on Volley, forgot that it's counterproof lol.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Welcome Gimps! And, points on your Rending Volley suggestion. Wise.
A few voices not heard around the campfire for some time have returned. Fond head nods to tjuppus, joandpaulson, natehill61, and avalancherider.
Strategy notes and a fixed sideboarding guide, as ever, are the #1 topic requested here. The primer information has aged. The concern is that today’s Pyro Prison decks are evolving at a rapid rate.
CONSIDER: Showtime’s 6 trophy list in MTGO Modern Competitive Leagues is ONLY a few cards different from my published 5-1 $30 buy-in 1K list from November - when you account for Anger of the Gods. I did a 2/2 split while he put all 4 in the side.
Buuuut, our sideboards are significantly different, because he has skillfully adapted to today’s meta. I had 3 sweepers main AND predictably faced 3 spirits decks that day. Showtime is packing No sweepers main. Instead they’re in the SB alongside Tons of graveyard hate.
So, it’s tough to devise point-for-point swaps in a Sideboard Guide.
On top of that, there is a renewed push to integrate White into Pyro Prison.
Koth almighty!
Teaser: I’ll publish my Boros Prison deck variant before FNM. Surprise additions?
Main deck: Engineered Explosives
Side Board: Worship
Alright, before the R/w Boros Pyro Prison decklist (name yet to be determined, thinking....Candy Cane, SPF 61, White Sun, Gaslighter, Sunburn...all underwhelming). Anyhoo....
MAINDECK --- Pretty typical (4+) Rabble // (4) Eidolon build. The only quirks are an absence of targeted removal and the addition of a single slagstorm and 1 collective defiance. Since it's a 3-module card, it's got a long story to tell about its right to be in the line-up. Sufficed to say that the occasions of 2-3 mode castings for serious game altering glee have been sufficient.
SIDEBOARD --- A lot there, eh? 1st, Dragon's Claw. Yup. Have you seen the meta? IN. Similarly, Witchbane Orb covers burn and so many other combo decks. Batterskull? We did cover the burn topic earlier right? And, when you yank out all bridges, this is the best safety blanket you can hope to deploy. It's also terrific against mid-late game fair/control decks.
It's been devised after a lot of testing. If pressed, I'd play this over any version of Boros Pyro Prison deck variant out there....wellllll, maybe. When you know that you're going to see a very high percentage of the same tiered decks that fall to white hoser cards then another prudent line of thinking might prevail.
GL to all. May all your thrown boulders hit their mark!
I really liked your list, the only thing I do not like is Grafdigger's Cage, I think he's in conflict with Chalice. if I make chalice for 1 I can not play the grafdigger and otherwise I can not hold chalice in hand until grafdigger comes.I would put 1 koth on the deck, koth is too powerful. If you do it at the beginning it arrives at the ultimate very fast and gets almost won.
Combust does kill the angels from control sideboard and as far as I can see from mtgtop8s list, those are the only creatures really played in modern that rending volley can’t kill but combust can.
Maybe sticking with Combust is the correct line. My main concern when considering Combust/Volley is Thing in the Ice. Finding two mana is not usually an issue and killing fat butt angels means 2 positives in Combust's corner. Also, being immune to counters is massive (obviously). Usually we would have to worry about killing Thing on the draw before they have counter mana up, but now the only problem would be killing it before they have the mana to flip it.
Basically what I am saying is I think you guys are right, and Combust is probably a better choice for right now, but it is worth coming back to as an option. 1 mana cheaper may be a factor at some point.
Can't wait to see your "White Sun" list @Raystack. I have seen a couple 5-0 lists pop up this week but even the deck's pilot said it is a work in progress. Again, thanks for the welcome and I can't wait to discuss how best to prevent my opponent from playing MTG!
Don’t worry Ray, always reading and commenting whenever I feel I have decent input. Playing when I can, but life gets busy as I’m sure you guys know. I try to make all the bigger tournaments in my area and I usually top 4! You guys’ll be happy to hear I’ve practically paid off the price of the deck with my winnings! Playing a 6 Rabble list with the 4 eidolons main and I’m having great results. 2 slagstorms and 2 abrades main because I’m not as ballsy as Showtime yet. And 3 Hazorets in the 75 is the TRUTH since my meta is full of Jund. I’ll post my list if anyone is interested!
Hazoret is overwhelmingly strong. Recently, I've had 2 in the main, and only moved down to 1 for lack of space. Grafdigger's Cage is a must play in mono-red regardless of conflict with Chalice --- attrition what hurts us juuuuust might hurt them more.
Gimps - you nailed it. Good Call. No second guess.
Strong is the Natehill damage and liking the Ziggurot naming. Nothing is coming to mind that seems all that solid yet, though. You know? I mean 'Sun and Moon' have had years to come up with a cool deck name and pretty much ended their thinking with.....sun and moon. Since our variant is more aggressive, how about 'Freezer Burn'.
Any Office fans? We can call it Prison Mike! Otherwise I came up with “Blood and Bone” and “Strawberries and Cream” very different names but both have merit!
Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
LOCKS
Let's break it down. 1/4 of the deck is locks (15 spells), and that's before we even look at the sideboard which is straight up assassin. Point of order - I'm counting Eidolons as locks || the 4th wall.
CREATURES
(7) Rabble. Like the count for Eidolon, this is 1 less than a traditional approach. It's a 2 color deck with loads of options that synergize, so space is at a premium. The Hazoret speaks for itself - being a god and all.
PLANESWALKERS
4 Chandra. If I had any sort of filter, it would be 3. I count the 4th Chandra as my 60th spell. There are no other walkers. I've been unimpressed with Ajani, Vengeant. The best part of the Lion is the life gain. The blowing up of lands is generally useless, since they will have laid out a big enough board threat. The tap down option is also kind of anemic. Lastly, he comes in very low on the loyalty counter.
REMOVAL
4 Singletons. Slagstorm and Lightning Helix are self-explanatory. Collective Defiance was talked about above. Engineered Explosives is renaissance. It fills in as a 4th sweeper in the (75), offers an actual 1 drop [our only one] -- this becomes extremely valuable when facing Red Burn. But, also, it can blow out decks with lethal 2 drops like Jund/BG rock. It's an easy drop when we need to get under a bridge. I think it's a fine card to carry the Pyro Prison...er, Prairie Prison banner.
LANDS
I've altered the count to diminish the Plains count, because it is so useless in game 1. And, in game 2, you just gotta hope it cracks out for finding white. But, it is not uncommon to get screwed out of white because you've raced out a Moon effect. This is an unfixable flaw in R/W. I am tempted to drop the rugged prairie for a mountain - gotta crunch some more numbers.
SIDEBOARD
Starting with the White spells, they are thermonuclear bombs: RiP, Leyline, and Stony. The only reason we are talking about this decks are these cards. Other white cards are Lightning Helix, Worship, Deflecting Palm, and Engineered Explosives. The Helix is the 59th card in the main deck, and is almost an abrade. Worship is a very late drop, but again - just game winning against certain decks that can not kill multiple creatures or enchantments (surprisingly that includes a lot of constructions). Deflecting Palm is the 'ace up your sleeve'. Like Batterskull, these cards are terrific additions when you're removing our #1 safety blanket: (4) Ensnaring Bridge. It makes you feel better about going full on Sword and leaving the Shields in the sideboard.
SUMMARY
I do not have this deck in paper, just on MTGO. It's been serviceable in performance. I've been trying a lot of variations and taking risky lines of play to learn the angles. Overall?
Round 2 against Elves (2-1)
---------------------------
- I sat behind Bridge in all three games, game 1 and 3 I got Chandra ult and in game 2 he destroyd it with Reclamation Sage
Round 3 against UW Spirits (2-1)
--------------------------------
- Game 1 and 2 were tight. Game 3 T1 Chalice with one counter, T3 Chalice with two counters and Blood Moon next. He didn't get to play anything after that and smashed with two Spirit Guides to victory!
Round 4 against Mono-White Hatebears (2-1)
------------------------------------------
- Game 1 sat behind Bridge and generated a goblin army to win. Game 2 bad draws and two Kor Firewalker on board hitting my face. Game 3 Bridge + Hazoret to victory.
I had a blast! I started thinking about slight changes to SB, for example Ravenous Trap x2 -> Torpor Orb + Abrade. Will see. Suggestions, tips and guiding are appreciated as always!
Ray. I'm digging the new Maximum list. Been trying to nail down a 75 for the mythic qualifier at Magicfest Cleveland. I've been pretty close to the new maximum. I hadn't put Defiance in the running but might have to test this weekend. Really like the board though, I hadn't pulled the trigger on claw yet, but i really like the batterskull with the current meta. Going to have to run some games over the weekend. I'll post a list before next weekends event. Going to have to remember to take notes for event summary after.
It is called sun and moon becasue the sun emblem on the white pips + blood moon, our RW list has very little resemlance to it though so we are far enough away to be considered a separate deck.
Like Ray said Grafdiggers cage is a necessary evil, Though often times decks that want a grafdiggers you want chalice on 2 more than three weird how that works out.
Koth of the Hammer is a very powerful card yes. and playing +ulting him early is insane. but right now bolt is very highly played so getting him to stay out is the problem especially since we cant protect him with giving ourself hexproof anymore. plus you have to run atleat 14 mountains to make him practical as well.
make sense....koth is only effective if used with at least 14 mountains, in the "Plateau Prison" (I like that name hehe) koth would be half dead. Here comes Ajani vengeant, the test is valid.
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If 4 toughness is the biggest thing we will typically see with Resto Angel and Thing, is it worth running Rending Volley instead of Combust?
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
You are correct, Joker, that nonbos with Chalice should be avoided if at all possible, but just to note, rending volley cannot be countered by spells or abilities. So as well as a warm welcome to Gimps, if 4 is the magic toughness number in the current meta then Rending Volley is better than Combust. Combust does kill the angels from control sideboard and as far as I can see from mtgtop8s list, those are the only creatures really played in modern that rending volley can’t kill but combust can.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
A few voices not heard around the campfire for some time have returned. Fond head nods to tjuppus, joandpaulson, natehill61, and avalancherider.
Strategy notes and a fixed sideboarding guide, as ever, are the #1 topic requested here. The primer information has aged. The concern is that today’s Pyro Prison decks are evolving at a rapid rate.
CONSIDER: Showtime’s 6 trophy list in MTGO Modern Competitive Leagues is ONLY a few cards different from my published 5-1 $30 buy-in 1K list from November - when you account for Anger of the Gods. I did a 2/2 split while he put all 4 in the side.
Buuuut, our sideboards are significantly different, because he has skillfully adapted to today’s meta. I had 3 sweepers main AND predictably faced 3 spirits decks that day. Showtime is packing No sweepers main. Instead they’re in the SB alongside Tons of graveyard hate.
So, it’s tough to devise point-for-point swaps in a Sideboard Guide.
On top of that, there is a renewed push to integrate White into Pyro Prison.
Koth almighty!
Teaser: I’ll publish my Boros Prison deck variant before FNM. Surprise additions?
Main deck: Engineered Explosives
Side Board: Worship
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (12)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Legion Warboss
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Slagstorm
1 Collective Defiance
Accelerators (9)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
Lands (21)
14 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
3 Ramunap Ruins
1 Mutavault
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Abrade
1 Damping Matrix
2 Torpor Orb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Dragon's Claw
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Dismember
1 Batterskull
MAINDECK --- Pretty typical (4+) Rabble // (4) Eidolon build. The only quirks are an absence of targeted removal and the addition of a single slagstorm and 1 collective defiance. Since it's a 3-module card, it's got a long story to tell about its right to be in the line-up. Sufficed to say that the occasions of 2-3 mode castings for serious game altering glee have been sufficient.
SIDEBOARD --- A lot there, eh? 1st, Dragon's Claw. Yup. Have you seen the meta? IN. Similarly, Witchbane Orb covers burn and so many other combo decks. Batterskull? We did cover the burn topic earlier right? And, when you yank out all bridges, this is the best safety blanket you can hope to deploy. It's also terrific against mid-late game fair/control decks.
It's been devised after a lot of testing. If pressed, I'd play this over any version of Boros Pyro Prison deck variant out there....wellllll, maybe. When you know that you're going to see a very high percentage of the same tiered decks that fall to white hoser cards then another prudent line of thinking might prevail.
GL to all. May all your thrown boulders hit their mark!
Modern:
Pyro Prison
Sun and Moon
Eldrazi Stompy
Maybe sticking with Combust is the correct line. My main concern when considering Combust/Volley is Thing in the Ice. Finding two mana is not usually an issue and killing fat butt angels means 2 positives in Combust's corner. Also, being immune to counters is massive (obviously). Usually we would have to worry about killing Thing on the draw before they have counter mana up, but now the only problem would be killing it before they have the mana to flip it.
Basically what I am saying is I think you guys are right, and Combust is probably a better choice for right now, but it is worth coming back to as an option. 1 mana cheaper may be a factor at some point.
Can't wait to see your "White Sun" list @Raystack. I have seen a couple 5-0 lists pop up this week but even the deck's pilot said it is a work in progress. Again, thanks for the welcome and I can't wait to discuss how best to prevent my opponent from playing MTG!
Gimps - you nailed it. Good Call. No second guess.
Strong is the Natehill damage and liking the Ziggurot naming. Nothing is coming to mind that seems all that solid yet, though. You know? I mean 'Sun and Moon' have had years to come up with a cool deck name and pretty much ended their thinking with.....sun and moon. Since our variant is more aggressive, how about 'Freezer Burn'.
Nope. At best, it sounds like a Batman Villain.
Maybe:
"Desert prison" or "desert goblin"
"sacred prison"
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Modern:
Pyro Prison
Sun and Moon
Eldrazi Stompy
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Creatures (8)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Legion Warboss
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Removal (4)
1 Slagstorm
1 Collective Defiance
1 Lightning Helix
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
Lands (21)
6 Mountains
2 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
4 Inspiring Vantage
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Rugged Prairie
3 Gemstone Caverns
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Torpor Orb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Worship
1 Batterskull
LOCKS
Let's break it down. 1/4 of the deck is locks (15 spells), and that's before we even look at the sideboard which is straight up assassin. Point of order - I'm counting Eidolons as locks || the 4th wall.
CREATURES
(7) Rabble. Like the count for Eidolon, this is 1 less than a traditional approach. It's a 2 color deck with loads of options that synergize, so space is at a premium. The Hazoret speaks for itself - being a god and all.
PLANESWALKERS
4 Chandra. If I had any sort of filter, it would be 3. I count the 4th Chandra as my 60th spell. There are no other walkers. I've been unimpressed with Ajani, Vengeant. The best part of the Lion is the life gain. The blowing up of lands is generally useless, since they will have laid out a big enough board threat. The tap down option is also kind of anemic. Lastly, he comes in very low on the loyalty counter.
REMOVAL
4 Singletons. Slagstorm and Lightning Helix are self-explanatory. Collective Defiance was talked about above. Engineered Explosives is renaissance. It fills in as a 4th sweeper in the (75), offers an actual 1 drop [our only one] -- this becomes extremely valuable when facing Red Burn. But, also, it can blow out decks with lethal 2 drops like Jund/BG rock. It's an easy drop when we need to get under a bridge. I think it's a fine card to carry the Pyro Prison...er, Prairie Prison banner.
LANDS
I've altered the count to diminish the Plains count, because it is so useless in game 1. And, in game 2, you just gotta hope it cracks out for finding white. But, it is not uncommon to get screwed out of white because you've raced out a Moon effect. This is an unfixable flaw in R/W. I am tempted to drop the rugged prairie for a mountain - gotta crunch some more numbers.
SIDEBOARD
Starting with the White spells, they are thermonuclear bombs: RiP, Leyline, and Stony. The only reason we are talking about this decks are these cards. Other white cards are Lightning Helix, Worship, Deflecting Palm, and Engineered Explosives. The Helix is the 59th card in the main deck, and is almost an abrade. Worship is a very late drop, but again - just game winning against certain decks that can not kill multiple creatures or enchantments (surprisingly that includes a lot of constructions). Deflecting Palm is the 'ace up your sleeve'. Like Batterskull, these cards are terrific additions when you're removing our #1 safety blanket: (4) Ensnaring Bridge. It makes you feel better about going full on Sword and leaving the Shields in the sideboard.
SUMMARY
I do not have this deck in paper, just on MTGO. It's been serviceable in performance. I've been trying a lot of variations and taking risky lines of play to learn the angles. Overall?
First modern FNM played, went 4-0! Got two UMA boosters as prize and cracked Celestial Colonnade and Tasigur, the Golden Fang so not bad, not bad.
Round 1 against 8-Whack (2-0)
-----------------------------
- Quite easy matchup, Chalices did a lot work in both games
- OUT: Blood Moon x4 / Goblin Rabblemaster x4
- IN: Anger of the Gods x4 / Abrade x2 / Torbor Orb / Dragon's Claw
Round 2 against Elves (2-1)
---------------------------
- I sat behind Bridge in all three games, game 1 and 3 I got Chandra ult and in game 2 he destroyd it with Reclamation Sage
- OUT: Blood Moon x4 / Goblin Rabblemaster x4
- IN: Anger of the Gods x4 / Abrade x2 / Torbor Orb / Sorcerous Spyglass
- Between game 2 and 3 I changed Spyglass to Spellskite
Round 3 against UW Spirits (2-1)
--------------------------------
- Game 1 and 2 were tight. Game 3 T1 Chalice with one counter, T3 Chalice with two counters and Blood Moon next. He didn't get to play anything after that and smashed with two Spirit Guides to victory!
- OUT: Legion Warboss x4 / Goblin Rabblemaster x4
- IN: Anger of the Gods x4 / Abrade x2 / Torbor Orb / Sorcerous Spyglass
Round 4 against Mono-White Hatebears (2-1)
------------------------------------------
- Game 1 sat behind Bridge and generated a goblin army to win. Game 2 bad draws and two Kor Firewalker on board hitting my face. Game 3 Bridge + Hazoret to victory.
- OUT: Blood Moon x4 / Goblin Rabblemaster x4
- IN: Anger of the Gods x4 / Abrade x2 / Torbor Orb / Spellskite
The deck was basically Showtime_'s list:
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature (10)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Accelerators (9)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Blood Moon
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Land (21)
3 Gemstone Caverns
13 Mountain
1 Mutavault
4 Ramunap Ruins
2 Abrade
4 Anger of the Gods
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Dragon's Claw
4 Ravenous Trap
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
I had a blast! I started thinking about slight changes to SB, for example Ravenous Trap x2 -> Torpor Orb + Abrade. Will see. Suggestions, tips and guiding are appreciated as always!
Tjuppus signing out!
Like Ray said Grafdiggers cage is a necessary evil, Though often times decks that want a grafdiggers you want chalice on 2 more than three weird how that works out.
Koth of the Hammer is a very powerful card yes. and playing +ulting him early is insane. but right now bolt is very highly played so getting him to stay out is the problem especially since we cant protect him with giving ourself hexproof anymore. plus you have to run atleat 14 mountains to make him practical as well.