@joymonger The deck is fun for sure. Definitely my favorite deck to play. Also, the bad matchups at the moment seem like they're a much smaller percentage of the meta than the good matchups. I like where we're positioned right now. Hopefully we'll still be in a good position come time for Tampa lol.
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Decks: Modern:
Pyro Prison
Sun and Moon
Eldrazi Stompy
Agreed. If there was a time to play the deck, now is a good time. We’ll see what Ravnica Allegiance brings.
Managed to 3-1 tonight against Mill, UR Phoenix and Eldrazi Tron, losing to UW Control. Bridge against Eldrazi is super good but Endbringer can easily ruin your day, so it’s not a lock. A lot of lists run Karn or Ulamog too. Felt like I sided in Spellskite every match up. Eidolons against Phoenix were kill on sight for them.
@Colzdude: Rock solid job at the SCG Classic -- DAY 2!!! Man, would have loved to see your 8-Rabble Variant in the Top 8. Next Time.
@VicVega: Let us know if you ended up running out Pyro Prison at the SCG even in Worcester, MA (down the street from me, but I'm hung up on Footballing this weekend -- lotsa betting and yelling at my television You were asking about R/W Pale Moon variants. There's a very well maintained thread here on MTGsalvation. Conceptually, it makes sense as a spoiler with a ton of hose cards. But, it doesn't present any sort of clock, the double colors muddle the mixture, and it has trouble defining its role in any given game (sword or shield or.....shield-gun??).
@Joymonger: Welcome - Welcome! I appreciate your analysis and appreciation of reviewing older lists to inspire future constructions. Indeed, the mechanics of disruption, soft locks, acceleration, creature threats, and utility lands have all been there since the beginning. Sometimes you can find a gem in the back of the closet.
Sorry, I've been a bit absent lately. Work's picked up and most of my Magic playing has been MODO doing Ultimate Masters and Vintage phantom cube drafts. Sooooo fun.
For a quick recap of decks that I continue to tinker with, here's the Pyro Prison Carousel article I put up some weeks back. The recent trends in my designs have been to move away from Witchbane Orb and Pia and Kiran Nalaar in the main deck. I love having 2 Hazoret in the main deck. Abrade's are scantly seen there, but I do enjoy my 1 Goblin Cratermaker. I also believe in running Eidolon in the main deck as long as spell/combo/low curving decks continue to prosper.
My new year's resolution would be to find a way to combine 'The Voice' and 'Trash Dragons' into an optimized draw/acceleration machine which can use all of our 'loss of card economy, BUT speed out answers well ahead of the curve' tricks: Like Dazza mentioned [faithless looting]. Also: Sarkhan, Zhalfirin Void, 10 Rituals, Tormenting Voice, and Trash Dragon himself.
Round1 - 2:0 vs. R/G Scapeshift (1:0)
Game1: SSG, Ritual, Legion Warboss.
Game2: SSG, SSG, Ritual, Hazoret, Abrade something, Blood Moon.
Easy wins, not much to say.
Round2 - 2:0 vs. Bant Spirits (2:0)
Game1: T3 he swings for 10dmg, T4 he has around 30power on board -> Ensnaring Bridge -> after some trades with hierarch, he concedes -> no outs mainboard vs bridge
Game2: Well timed Anger of the Gods followed by Blood Moon.
Holy f*ck, that deck is explosive. But Ensnaring Bride and Moon are awesome + early sweeper
Round3 - 2:1 vs Jund Death's Shadow (3:0)
Just some words here: It is important to mulligan to your right hate pieces. Chalice or Blood Moon are a must have here.
Best hand ever: "3x Ensnaring Bridge, 2x Gemstone Caverns, 1x Ritual, 1xBlood Moon" -> can u keep this?
Round4 - 2:1 vs BG-Rock (4:0)
Blood Moon T1 on the Draw wins, game 2 i was rekt, game 3 i curved out pretty awesome - Legion Warboss -> Abrade -> Chandra -> Win.
Round5 - 1:2 vs Jund Death's Shadow (4:1)
Impossible draws on his side... 3x Deaths Shadow topdeck stopping my swing for lethal... got him to 1 and lose.
Round6 - 0:2 vs Fenix. (4:2)
Boarded in 10 cards. Guess Phoenix didnt care, Fenix just kills.
Care, it's easy to assume hes on UW Control... was my first big mistake there.
Round6 - 1:2 vs Infect (4:3)
Shame on me, missed a Chalice Trigger and that lost me the game.. was a long day.
Nearly impossible to lose that matchup...
Got taken down from being placed first to the 46. in the end....
tl;dr:
- PyroPrison is really good positioned these days
- I have problems with the "all goblins has to attack" from Rabble
- 8-Goblins have some problems with midrange meta... sometimes they were just useless :s
- people love that deck, everyone had fun and was happy to see it
- will stay on the deck, had awesome games and played great magic
- was impressed how bad Sarkhan, Fireblood is. was great in 1 match and useless in 4.
- One Of Hazoret made my day and won 3 matches alone
- missed somehow the 9. ritual...
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"From my rotting body,
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity."
Any mathematicians out there know the difference between 8 rituals vs 9? I’m wanting to cut down to 8 to add another threat, because I feel like a lot of the games I lose are because I don’t present a fast enough clock.
Thanks for the write up, Midn8
EDIT:
Yes, Hazoret is a beast and getting her out ahead of curve against decks not playing Path sometimes feels unbeatable. Considering going down a Chandra to play 2 Hazoret main, but honestly both 4-drops are amazing.
When comparing 8 rituals versus 9, it comes down to composition, Joymonger. If you can 'smoothly ramp' by casting spells through a missed 3rd land drop, then 8 rituals is fine. IF you see an immediate return on your ritual use (Chandra/Koth/Avaricious/Sarkhan(though his stock is dropping - as corroborated by Midn8Walker), then inflate away: use 9-10 rituals.
'Smoothly ramp' is better defined by: Do you have a lot of spells which inhabit your 2-cmc stable? Most common affirmative is (4) Eidiolon, but not necessarily Abrade since you'll often hold it back. BUT, a Goblin Cratermaster is guaranteed turn 2 drop.
Hazoret vs. Chandra? Which one is better in a starting hand? Which one delivers more immediate impact? If you're creature light, can your Chandra be protected by a blocking critter? How do cumulative draws of the same card suss out? If you are running 4 Chandra, how often do you side 1-2 out anyway? Lots to consider...
Any mathematicians out there know the difference between 8 rituals vs 9? I’m wanting to cut down to 8 to add another threat, because I feel like a lot of the games I lose are because I don’t present a fast enough clock.
Thanks for the write up, Midn8
EDIT:
Yes, Hazoret is a beast and getting her out ahead of curve against decks not playing Path sometimes feels unbeatable. Considering going down a Chandra to play 2 Hazoret main, but honestly both 4-drops are amazing.
Ratios of Lands, Ramp Spells (Fast Mana for us), and your CMC overall is critical to determining if you want to be running whatever combination of these cards. Hypergeometric Distribution Calculators can start to help you understand this and can be found at the link below. Channel fireball also talked about optimal lands and percentage points of how many to play when wanting to curve out. Links below for some... not so light reading
welcome back. after good few months with Elves I am thinking of putting this piece of art together again. Best deck I've ever played, and definetely most fun. Any solid lists?
Amok22 --- Dude, so good to hear your voice again. I remember your wisdom playing a role in my undefeated 1K run a couple years ago. As for a decklist to give a run, I believe my current list can hold its own out there.
Again, 'Maximum' because it employs the 4th wall of the soft-lock prison in the main deck: Eidolon of the Great Revel. Beyond that, recent evolutions have a 5th eidolon in the main deck: Scab-Clan Berserker. Chaining-Spell Combo decks are devastated by this mechanic, and for those decks that ramp slowly? They are also punished by an early drop 'bear' that has shocking repercussions. Finally, if it's a creature heavy deck, then Eidolon will often trade in blocks which slows their swarm attack.
The sly advantage of running Eidolon in the main deck is that it frees up 4 slots in the sideboard. So, by front loading all of the Pyro Prison threats into the main deck, the sideboard becomes a toolbox. Go-Wide answers that all but eliminate the need for spot removal. Of which this decks runs exactly 1 spell. One. An abrade in the 15.
This is possible because of the pressure. Consider 'Free-Win Red'. It has almost no pressure. It relies upon locks and planeswalkers. That's it. 'Pyro Prison' employs creature based win conditions, and even more locks in the sideboard. Now, this doesn't come without an expense. Eidolon will burn you, but it does so on an attrition based metric. Trust that some of our locks will blank and some will hit with tiger uppercut force. Threat density is at a maximum in Pyro Prison || Maximum. Leave behind the extra Chandras, Abrades, Anger of the Gods, and Pia and Kirans. Come play with fire!
Hi, guys. After playing about 10 different decks, I'm back on this masterpiece in two formats! Has anyone played the Legacy version? If so, what are your thoughts? Apparently I'm no longer in the Discord, can someone post an invite? Thank you all!!!
So i've been lurking for awhile now. Been playing the deck for about 3 months now in various incarnations. With RNA coming out i was wondering what everyone thinks about "cavalcade of calamity". With access to 8 rabblemasters pumping out 1/1s i feel like this could a way to get around blockers for those last little bits of damage or to deal with troublesome walkers out of the board.
@DFray85 That could be pretty spicy. Wondering what you would drop to fit it in though. I've been considering dropping a Hazoret (I run 2 for consistency) for a Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs myself.
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Decks: Modern:
Pyro Prison
Sun and Moon
Eldrazi Stompy
Hey everyone, ShowTime_ here, currently tied for trophy lead this new modern season on mtgo using Pyro Prison or "Free Win Red" as I call it, and I'm trying to keep it up! Been working closely with Muddy15 since his lists from the previous season, feel we have landed on the *best* possible list currently:
Planeswalker (4)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature (18)
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Legion Warboss
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Instant (5)
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
Artifact (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
Enchantment (4)
4 Blood Moon
Land (21)
3 Gemstone Caverns
13 Mountain
1 Mutavault
4 Ramunap Ruins
Sideboard (15)
2 Abrade
4 Anger of the Gods
1 Damping Sphere
1 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
I am here to provide any help I can and cultivate the archetype. I may provide Sideboard and matchup analysis if there is enough interest. Cheers!
Hi, I saw you on mtggoldfish and actually started playing the deck again. Also 5-0'd 2 times with the deck yesterday and today, have you tried dismember, its been one of my favorite card. Currently playing 2 main with 1 extra in side. I also moved all sweeper to sideboard but I still kept in the 4 single target removal in main deck(abrades+dismember). So many wins comes from turn 1-2 rabblemaster or legionaire and a removal to get rid of a goyf or snapcaster.
Great to hear from you and glad you are playing the deck and doing well! I'm curious what you dropped for the removal spells? Im hoping it's not Eidolon! Eidolon is one of the best cards in the maindeck, in fact Pyro Prison may be the best "Eidolon" deck in the entire format moreso than burn or any other deck that runs it in the sideboard for a variety of reasons:
1. Doesn't deal itself damage from lands
2. Can cheat the Eidolon into play on t1
3. Has 4 cost haymakers that don't trigger Eidolon
4. Interacts nicely with Chandra's mana ability
In the same vein as this, I don't like removal spells in the main for the following reasons:
1. Pyro Prison is a deck that creates card disadvantage by cheating lock pieces into play, so trading 1 for 1 rarely accomplishes anything
2. Completely dead in several of moderns matchups
3. The 8 rabbles are not there to be "aggressive" (although some non interactive combo games do go that way) they are there for the hellbent bridge interaction; Pyro Prison will never be the best deck in modern at removing blockers and attacking, so it's better to do what it does best
Hope this helps
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Modern:
Pyro Prison
Sun and Moon
Eldrazi Stompy
Managed to 3-1 tonight against Mill, UR Phoenix and Eldrazi Tron, losing to UW Control. Bridge against Eldrazi is super good but Endbringer can easily ruin your day, so it’s not a lock. A lot of lists run Karn or Ulamog too. Felt like I sided in Spellskite every match up. Eidolons against Phoenix were kill on sight for them.
@VicVega: Let us know if you ended up running out Pyro Prison at the SCG even in Worcester, MA (down the street from me, but I'm hung up on Footballing this weekend -- lotsa betting and yelling at my television You were asking about R/W Pale Moon variants. There's a very well maintained thread here on MTGsalvation. Conceptually, it makes sense as a spoiler with a ton of hose cards. But, it doesn't present any sort of clock, the double colors muddle the mixture, and it has trouble defining its role in any given game (sword or shield or.....shield-gun??).
@Joymonger: Welcome - Welcome! I appreciate your analysis and appreciation of reviewing older lists to inspire future constructions. Indeed, the mechanics of disruption, soft locks, acceleration, creature threats, and utility lands have all been there since the beginning. Sometimes you can find a gem in the back of the closet.
Sorry, I've been a bit absent lately. Work's picked up and most of my Magic playing has been MODO doing Ultimate Masters and Vintage phantom cube drafts. Sooooo fun.
For a quick recap of decks that I continue to tinker with, here's the Pyro Prison Carousel article I put up some weeks back. The recent trends in my designs have been to move away from Witchbane Orb and Pia and Kiran Nalaar in the main deck. I love having 2 Hazoret in the main deck. Abrade's are scantly seen there, but I do enjoy my 1 Goblin Cratermaker. I also believe in running Eidolon in the main deck as long as spell/combo/low curving decks continue to prosper.
My new year's resolution would be to find a way to combine 'The Voice' and 'Trash Dragons' into an optimized draw/acceleration machine which can use all of our 'loss of card economy, BUT speed out answers well ahead of the curve' tricks: Like Dazza mentioned [faithless looting]. Also: Sarkhan, Zhalfirin Void, 10 Rituals, Tormenting Voice, and Trash Dragon himself.
Well, here's some options to ponder:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/663335-pyro-prison-goblinized-mono-red-control-the?comment=3145
And, my current up to date list is at the bottom of the Official Primer on Page 1.
First time with the deck, had an awesome time
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (9)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Planeswalkers (5)
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Sarkhan, Fireblood
Sweeper Removal (5)
2 Slagstorm
2 Abrade
1 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
Lands (21)
12 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
3 Ramunap Ruins
1 Mutavault
2 Scavenger Grounds
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Abrade
3 Damping Sphere
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ravenous Trap
4 Eidolon of Great Revel
1 Spellskite
Round1 - 2:0 vs. R/G Scapeshift (1:0)
Game1: SSG, Ritual, Legion Warboss.
Game2: SSG, SSG, Ritual, Hazoret, Abrade something, Blood Moon.
Easy wins, not much to say.
Round2 - 2:0 vs. Bant Spirits (2:0)
Game1: T3 he swings for 10dmg, T4 he has around 30power on board -> Ensnaring Bridge -> after some trades with hierarch, he concedes -> no outs mainboard vs bridge
Game2: Well timed Anger of the Gods followed by Blood Moon.
Holy f*ck, that deck is explosive. But Ensnaring Bride and Moon are awesome + early sweeper
Round3 - 2:1 vs Jund Death's Shadow (3:0)
Just some words here: It is important to mulligan to your right hate pieces. Chalice or Blood Moon are a must have here.
Best hand ever: "3x Ensnaring Bridge, 2x Gemstone Caverns, 1x Ritual, 1xBlood Moon" -> can u keep this?
Round4 - 2:1 vs BG-Rock (4:0)
Blood Moon T1 on the Draw wins, game 2 i was rekt, game 3 i curved out pretty awesome - Legion Warboss -> Abrade -> Chandra -> Win.
Round5 - 1:2 vs Jund Death's Shadow (4:1)
Impossible draws on his side... 3x Deaths Shadow topdeck stopping my swing for lethal... got him to 1 and lose.
Round6 - 0:2 vs Fenix. (4:2)
Boarded in 10 cards. Guess Phoenix didnt care, Fenix just kills.
Care, it's easy to assume hes on UW Control... was my first big mistake there.
Round6 - 1:2 vs Infect (4:3)
Shame on me, missed a Chalice Trigger and that lost me the game.. was a long day.
Nearly impossible to lose that matchup...
Got taken down from being placed first to the 46. in the end....
tl;dr:
- PyroPrison is really good positioned these days
- I have problems with the "all goblins has to attack" from Rabble
- 8-Goblins have some problems with midrange meta... sometimes they were just useless :s
- people love that deck, everyone had fun and was happy to see it
- will stay on the deck, had awesome games and played great magic
- was impressed how bad Sarkhan, Fireblood is. was great in 1 match and useless in 4.
- One Of Hazoret made my day and won 3 matches alone
- missed somehow the 9. ritual...
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity."
Thanks for the write up, Midn8
EDIT:
Yes, Hazoret is a beast and getting her out ahead of curve against decks not playing Path sometimes feels unbeatable. Considering going down a Chandra to play 2 Hazoret main, but honestly both 4-drops are amazing.
'Smoothly ramp' is better defined by: Do you have a lot of spells which inhabit your 2-cmc stable? Most common affirmative is (4) Eidiolon, but not necessarily Abrade since you'll often hold it back. BUT, a Goblin Cratermaster is guaranteed turn 2 drop.
Hazoret vs. Chandra? Which one is better in a starting hand? Which one delivers more immediate impact? If you're creature light, can your Chandra be protected by a blocking critter? How do cumulative draws of the same card suss out? If you are running 4 Chandra, how often do you side 1-2 out anyway? Lots to consider...
Ratios of Lands, Ramp Spells (Fast Mana for us), and your CMC overall is critical to determining if you want to be running whatever combination of these cards. Hypergeometric Distribution Calculators can start to help you understand this and can be found at the link below. Channel fireball also talked about optimal lands and percentage points of how many to play when wanting to curve out. Links below for some... not so light reading
https://stattrek.com/online-calculator/hypergeometric.aspx < One version there are others online, or you can do the awesome calculations yourself!
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-lands-do-you-need-to-consistently-hit-your-land-drops/
Mtgthewary --- https://discordapp.com/channels/442575196700934144/442575197397057557
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (14)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Legion Warboss
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Sweeper Removal (3)
2 Slagstorm
1 Collective Defiance
Accelerators (8)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
Lands (21)
14 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
3 Ramunap Ruins
1 Mutavault
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Abrade
2 Damping Matrix
2 Torpor Orb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Damping Sphere
1 Spellskite
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Magus of the Moon
Again, 'Maximum' because it employs the 4th wall of the soft-lock prison in the main deck: Eidolon of the Great Revel. Beyond that, recent evolutions have a 5th eidolon in the main deck: Scab-Clan Berserker. Chaining-Spell Combo decks are devastated by this mechanic, and for those decks that ramp slowly? They are also punished by an early drop 'bear' that has shocking repercussions. Finally, if it's a creature heavy deck, then Eidolon will often trade in blocks which slows their swarm attack.
The sly advantage of running Eidolon in the main deck is that it frees up 4 slots in the sideboard. So, by front loading all of the Pyro Prison threats into the main deck, the sideboard becomes a toolbox. Go-Wide answers that all but eliminate the need for spot removal. Of which this decks runs exactly 1 spell. One. An abrade in the 15.
This is possible because of the pressure. Consider 'Free-Win Red'. It has almost no pressure. It relies upon locks and planeswalkers. That's it. 'Pyro Prison' employs creature based win conditions, and even more locks in the sideboard. Now, this doesn't come without an expense. Eidolon will burn you, but it does so on an attrition based metric. Trust that some of our locks will blank and some will hit with tiger uppercut force. Threat density is at a maximum in Pyro Prison || Maximum. Leave behind the extra Chandras, Abrades, Anger of the Gods, and Pia and Kirans. Come play with fire!
Modern:
Pyro Prison
Sun and Moon
Eldrazi Stompy
Planeswalker (4)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature (18)
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Legion Warboss
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Instant (5)
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
Artifact (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
Enchantment (4)
4 Blood Moon
Land (21)
3 Gemstone Caverns
13 Mountain
1 Mutavault
4 Ramunap Ruins
Sideboard (15)
2 Abrade
4 Anger of the Gods
1 Damping Sphere
1 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
I am here to provide any help I can and cultivate the archetype. I may provide Sideboard and matchup analysis if there is enough interest. Cheers!
1. Doesn't deal itself damage from lands
2. Can cheat the Eidolon into play on t1
3. Has 4 cost haymakers that don't trigger Eidolon
4. Interacts nicely with Chandra's mana ability
In the same vein as this, I don't like removal spells in the main for the following reasons:
1. Pyro Prison is a deck that creates card disadvantage by cheating lock pieces into play, so trading 1 for 1 rarely accomplishes anything
2. Completely dead in several of moderns matchups
3. The 8 rabbles are not there to be "aggressive" (although some non interactive combo games do go that way) they are there for the hellbent bridge interaction; Pyro Prison will never be the best deck in modern at removing blockers and attacking, so it's better to do what it does best
Hope this helps