The loss of Ensnaring Bridge from the main deck has been furthered shored up by the addition of (3) Gods to the main deck. They obviously come with perks: Hazoret is a gal we know well. Purphoros finally has found a home! With so many he can be switched on at a reasonable rate, pumping the team is badass, and he often pings for 2 repeatedly when Rabble/Warboss spit out their 'goblin gun' hasty critters.
And, with the gods, we can stand tall in the case of stalemates - finally answers to fatties like Goyf and Gurmag! The ramp has been superb, and check this out: I'm now confident against Tron, and I bring in 0 cards against Burn. None. Ha!
I think you may have hit it there. My complaint (or problematic situation might be more accurate) was when faced with mid range decks whose fatties just swallowed up my goblins. Now you can go toe to toe with there pumped up kicks.
Few questions if I might.
How often do the chalices sit in you hand or do you just fire them off set at 1.
Now that there is no advantage to dumping your hand (no bridges) does Hazoret become less appealing to activate.
How tough is it to get and KEEP the devotion necessary for Porphoros with limited red non-creature permanents.
I really like were this deck is heading. It actually suits my play style as well. Aggressive control.
Chalice comes out immediately - fire it at 1. Use a monkey to get it out if you can.
I'm not sure I understand the Hazoret question. I get her out when I can, and continue to use the discard effect when it makes sense. But, she is a house in this build - currently 2/1 splite md/sb.
I'm still weighing options for win-cons that aren't aggro attack. Maaaaaybe a Koth of the Hammer returns to the SB? The reasoning is that there are times when bridge/angers come in, and you need to find a way to still win. Example of this is Bogles (our best matchup). Normally, we Chandra/Koth our way to victory, but not in this build. All 'goblin gun' gobbos have to come out, since auto-attacking into life-linked fatties is bad jujitsu. And, our hand will start to fill up IF they get out Gaddock Teeg (can't cast our XX chalices).
This example of diminished advantage against bogles illustrates how the Stock List had some 'overly-favored' matchups alongside some struggles against U/W control. Now, we're smoothing our advantages out a little. Current Record is 10-1 with a loss to eldrazi stompy.
I liked the idea of Thalia for a couple reasons. First it hoses me in my more traditional build. Thats why I took up this deck in the first place. After getting abused by Bloodmoon I decided to just play the card rather then get frustrated by it. So in a moon deck that relies on creatures it seemed to be a logical choice. Play as many of the hated cards as you can.
Also the W let me try out Oketra the True instead of multiples of other gods.
As to Hazoret. The synergy between it and a bridge is obvious. Not as much so when dumping your hand is not part of the game plan. Still I recognize you really don't have any reactive spells so I get it.
So I went back to testing my earlier Goblin build and ditched the removal for the Crater maker and a focused aggro strategy. I love how it plays but it definitely has different match-ups. In fact almost opposite. I struggled in some match-ups that were un-loseable and smoke them in some match-ups that seemed un-winable.
I have been trying out Goblin Assault as goblin factories #9 and #10. I'm uncertain at this point.
NVM Goblin Assault just does too little when it hits.
I am going to try a variant of Goblin Gun tomorrow at the tournament that CardKingdom organized as part of their Chalice event (https://thechalice.causevox.com)
I made some changes, like keeping a couple Chandras and added a few copies of Outpost Siege, ideally Purphoros should do damage when our tokens come into play, then there's damage when they attack, even when they're blocked ... also, choosing Khans when card advantage is needed is a good option.
There is a similar build to Goblin Gun, Mono Red Stomoy, which did well in a few modern tourneys in Japan. It's not goblin themed and has Hanweir Garrison and Rakka Mar, but is pretty much the same, apart from a few creatures.
@dmunozg: Inspired application of Outpost Siege! Where there was never a reason to elect the 'dragon' modality of that card, you've devised it as the newest 'prison' card.
If you can start ratcheting up the Goblin Gun then the (Rabble/Warboss) 1/1s getting fired acrossed the field EITHER hit for 1 damage OR die for 1 damage. Very cool, dude. I can see Outpost Siege serve as an even better version of Sarkhan, Fireblood. It's a lot easier for Outpost Siege to deal damage OR draw, and it's not in the very crowded 3-cmc slot. Lastly - it ain't all that easy to attack an enchantment. HUh -
I don't know about the land construction -- Zhalfirin Void is very hard to run in a deck with so many symbols in the CMC.
I think you should swap those Slagstorm in the sideboard to Anger of the Gods instead
What do you think of Goblin Cratermaker? I have moved away from it - once believed to be a straight up superior card to abrade, I now have my doubts.
I like what you're trying -- will attempt to sleeve up a version of your take on Goblin Gun when I get a moment. Also, forthcoming is a decklist/tourney report from a 10K tournament this weekend - spoiler: there was no money finish this time around.
My most recent version of Gobins Moon uses Hanweir Garrison as well. I have to admit I like it every bit as much as war boss. I realize it does not impact when it hits but its impact thereafter is greater and attacking into a Thalia is nice.
I'm curious why nobody likes Shared animosity. From a damage perspective it is like another creature factory. Do the math and you can see why I like to drop one of these the turn after either Hanweir Garrison, Legion Warboss or Goblin Rabblemaster. Plus it reduces the devastation of sweepers because you don't have to extend as much..
Obviously it is for a more aggressive, aggro build of goblins.
I do also have Hanweir Battlements in my deck and have used the haste fuction a number of times but never once have I melded them.
I don't know about the land construction -- Zhalfirin Void is very hard to run in a deck with so many symbols in the CMC.
I think you should swap those Slagstorm in the sideboard to Anger of the Gods instead
What do you think of Goblin Cratermaker? I have moved away from it - once believed to be a straight up superior card to abrade, I now have my doubts.
Similar observations... I'm thinking on going own on only two Zhalfirin Voids or just change them completely to Mountains. In some moment during the tournament I wanted the Slagstorms to be Angers and was disappointed with the Cratermakers. They could not kill a couple 2/3 Goyfs game 1 that cost me a match and the only time I had the option to use one to kill a Karn, the opponent played a Wurmcoil that was more relevant, so Abrade would have been a better card to have in each case.
I ended the tournament 3-3 ...
I defeated Hardened Scales on round 1, Lantern on round 5 and 8-Rack on round 6 (against lantern I had the fastest concede ever with a turn 1 Chalice). Outpost Siege on Dragon won me one of the games against Hardened Scales in which the opponent blocked most of my attackers and sac'ed all but one of his creatures, taking 2 damage (he was at 3) and completely forgot that the creature he was blocking would die and Siege killed him.
I lost to Jund (I had a penalty for giving my decklist late, so I started my second round with 1 game loss... two Goyfs that I could not get rid of made it a short round), Tron, in which I kept a 1 lander and put a Blood Moon on T1, but didn't find a second land in more than 6 turns, combined with multiple O-Stones and an Ulamog that set me back to 1 land, G2 I didn't find a Blood Moon, so Tron was active and I tried my best, with no success... My round 4 was against U-Tron, which normally don't care about our lock pieces... Mindslaver killed me twice.
I'm planning to replace Cratermeker with a couple Abrades, probably a 4th Warboss and maybe one Slagstorm MB and change all Slagstorms on the SB into Angers. Not sure about other changes, except replacing the Voids... the scry is useful sometimes, but too many colorless sources are frequently painful.
$3,000.00 for 1st place, so let's put all this experimenting and game theorizing to the ultimate test. It's showtime. I scrutinized each card selection, drawing inspiration from all of the suggestions posted by mountainfolk and previous archetypes I've rattled through:
Stock List - Our Bedrock. Defined by an unchanged formula since Torch of Defiance was created. (21) Land (9) Ritual (12) Lock (4) Chandra (4) Rabble (2) Sweeper (2) Spot (1) Koth = ((*55*)) Cards. Tried and True.
Goblin Gun - Goblins Everywhere: (8) Rabblemaster + Chainwhirler/Cratermaker. Defined by a creature dense main deck. All removal is 'on a stick'
Trash Dragons - Turbo Fast: Defined by inflated Ritual / Scry / Loot / Draw / Rummage Spells & backed by Avaricious-Sarkhan Combo. Increased number of 4-cmc spells, like multiple Hazoret the Fervent. Limited removal spell count.
Porno for Pyros - Combo & Spell Decks Beware the Devils! Defined by (4) Eidolon of the Revel in the main deck [ouch!], creature ramp, and reduced ritual count.
Toolbox - Now where's my silver bullet? Defined by reduced win-cons and increased prison pieces. Less spear and more shield in the sideboard.
Final Deck Result? Team effort. Every deck contributed its unique strengths just like, to use a Star Trek reference, the Borg. "We are the Borg. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile." But, spoiler alert: resistance was futile. I did not turn in a winning record on Saturday. It was a 2-3 drop, but each of my round losses were 1-2 game records, so that counts for something. And, plenty of Tier decks turned in the same record and worse that day, so I'm not discouraged.
Quite the opposite, I am extremely satisfied with the deck design. I came home after the tourney, reviewed the days events, laid out my alternate card choices, and attempted to improve the deck. No can do. For today's meta, imho nailed it. As you know, I'm not big on long tourney reports, but I'll list off the decks faced & how I sideboarded. Alright, so here's the deck:
How's it look? It's mostly a return to my Stock List. Same: land count and composition, ritual count and composition, removal count and composition, lock count, and rabblemaster count.
Notable differences in the Main Deck are a reduction in 4-cmc spells: No Koth - Only 3 Chandra - 1 Hazoret. This allows for a faster board development. I added (2) extra rabbles = warboss, and they all work well together as a team. (4) Devils came in to battle combo/spell/control/tron decks.
Notable differences in the sideboard is a high concentration of Toolbox cards. Anger of the Gods as a 4-of is prohibitively ill-tempered! Alongside 2 Slagstorm, 2 Abrade, and 4 Bridge, I'm positioning myself at the ready against decks that win by attacking - spirits/humans/hollow one/etc. Whereas some might think it's overkill, you can almost never have too much exiling kill against numerous decks out there. I'm perfectly fine with doing 1-for-1 trades if I have to. Otherwise, outside of Hazoret, the other sideboard cards are allllll toolbox cards. Since there are already so many win-cons front loaded into the main deck, I can get away with it.
Matchups:
Bloodbraid Elf JUND: Loss 1-2
-3 Chalice of the Void +2 Hazoret +1 Spyglass
Bogles: Win 2-0
-1 Abrade -4 Eidolon +1 S.Spyglass (name seal of primordium) +4 Anger of the Gods
Bloodbraid Elf JUND: Win 2-0
see above
G/x Tron: Loss 1-2
(depends on play/draw when it comes to keeping/siding bridge count - don't be overconfident on being able to overwhelm before W. Engine/Thrag) -2 Slagstorm -3 Ensnaring Bridge +1 damping sphere +2 damping matrix +1 sorcerous spyglass +1 Hazoret the Fervent
Coco Vizier Combo: Loss 1-2
-Every single creature (except Hazoret), Chalices, and Moons +Every single sideboard card except Damping Sphere, Here you win on Chandra/Hazoret - that's it. 14 card swap.
Hey I don't know if anyone saw UltraSuperBob playing against Seth on his stream, but he had Eidolon down and didn't attack with it and instead kept taking damage - which I think lost him the game. He could have attacked with Eidolon and eventually Seth would have blocked so he would have lost it and then been able to cast his hand freely.
Its at 1 hour 40 minutes ish in the replay video for Modern Dragons that recently went up.
I watched it Dev. You are correct - sometimes you have to kamikaze attack your Eidolon into 'suicide by dragon' so that you don't have to keep dumping your hand down. He did only get zinged for one spell played (blood moon - redundant), but every life point counts - which actually happened there: him getting pinged out by Niv Mizzet.
I watched Ultrasuperbob play against Stickballruss the other night in a mirror. He's a sound player - no mistakes that I saw. I did feel for on the clock management of his opponent in the video you provided. He ended at 19:00 and his opponent won at 2:00. His library was revealed, and it was very close to a Stock List of Pyro Prison.
Highlight? He dropped the hammer on a Boooooooooiiiiiil. Opponent had 3 lands. 2 of which were islands. At the start of the opponent's next turn? 1 land, and a heavy fog hung in the air. Nothing like the smell of low, low, low, low tide in the morning.
Or, should I say lowlight. Round 1 // Game 1 VS. Jund
I am on the PLAY and mulligan to 6. I don't know what my opponent is playing, and my hand is slooow. There is a blood moon, ensnaring bridge, chandra, 3 mountains. I don't want to risk the mull to 5, and there's always the chance of a drawn ritual. O.K. Keep.
I am not going to recall all of the plays/draws that occurred, but I don't expect to forget his 4th turn anytime soon. Like, maybe....ever?
I am chugging along with mountain drops, and not casting any spells. He fetches into a dual land on T1 and T2 - casting a Tarmogoyf: 1/2 P/T. No problem there. I start the 3rd turn with a mountain, and naturally cast blood moon. Got him.
Just from the way that he was playing his lands, I could tell that he wasn't sandbagging any basic lands in his hand. On his 3rd turn, he attacks for 1 and then plays another useless dual land. Bear in mind that this deck plays something like (1) basic land of each in his (60).
So, it's the 4th turn, and I'm feeling confident. He has 3 mountains and a 1/2 Goyf. I now have 4 mountains, a blood moon and a decision to make: Chandra or ensnaring bridge?
It'll be a while before I can get under a bridge, and there's not really much of an onboard threat to Chandra, so....Chandra gets cast and I tick up to (5) loyalty on an exile.
On the opponent's 4th turn, he top decks a forest. Plays the forest and a blood braid elf which reveals a thoughtseize. The bridge in my hand gets rubbished. The opponent's Goyf grows to a 3/4 and joins BBE in an attack upon Chandra. She dead. A few turns later, so am I.
ANOTHER QUICK ONE:
Before the tournament, I go over to the vendors' to buy a 3rd Hazoret the Fervent for my Pyro Prison deck. I shout over the request, some dude comes over with one, and $4.00 later I walk away with my last needed card for the deck that day.
In round 3, I seat myself across from someone I don't recognize and offer a hello. He says we've already met earlier that day. I tell him he must be confusing me with someone else. He's sure of it, and reminds me that I bought a Hazoret the Fervent from him over at the vendor area.
I say, "Ooooooh, yeah. I needed that card for an EDH tournament tomorrow." 'Suuuuure'. People around us laugh, and we start the tournament with me partially tipping my hand to my opponent. What are the odds?!?!!?
Glory Be to Red - The tag line of a Glorybringer spell slinging mega dragon build, and something that I'm a bit known for on the forums, case in point to Stickballruss he was the one that suggested some Glorybringer, but for whatever reason the deck clicks for me and... 'everyone thinks I'm mad for doing it.'
I've been looking at the possibility of playing what I call "Inverted Pyro Prison" - I won't really talk about deck lists here but to spin up a conversation on the forums (versus our discord) I wanted to propose the concept here. I think I can take data from earlier this year as reference and then apply to what we are seeing with the current meta-shifts as we approach Q4 2018.
Concept of "Invert Pyro Prison"
- There is actually nothing fancy, it is a re-evaluation of our 75. I've joked that we are the "Pre-boarded" deck, and so the question is always "What is the highest percentage of decks we will see, and how do we set up the 60 to beat them?"
- Invert takes this a slightly different route. Instead of looking at meta % points and trying to game G1 against my opponents, I actually try to 'give myself the best chance across 3 games' - What does this mean?
Matchups that are deemed unfavorable we need the best edge game 1.
Matchups that are deemed favorable we can lose percentage points game 1 for extremly powerful game 2 and game 3.
What do I mean by this?
Early 2018 - Hollow One, Humans, and Grixis Death Shadow - Were almost in the sense "Free Wins" a Blood Moon ruined these, and Bridge was basically an ace in the hole game 1. Game 2 you knew which two puzzle pieces you needed and could easily clean these up. So when you go to sideboard there was not much to grab, not much to add, usually 4 came out and 4 went in and you were just like "Yep lets go."
UW Control, Ad Nauseum, KCI - These matchups were difficult. We'd struggle not having "Quite enough pressure" game 1, and then usually are down a game trying to win games 2 and 3. We bring in silver bullets or more aggression, but now we're flipping a coin on 2 games, and the matchup still could be difficult.
So what would you change back in Early 2018? We talk about "Silver Bullets" in our sideboards, but in essence of a "Toolbox Deck" which contains silver bullets in the main, how do we - A Non Searching Deck - do this? We rely on card filter if possible, and we adjust the utility of our creatures and cards in order to compensate by putting our silver bullets to the sideboard and utilizing them for games 2 and 3. What would this look like?
Example
Ensnaring Bridge is exceptionally good against these favorable matchups. The question being do we need all 4 in the main? Blood Moon was also reasonable as was chalice. I joked about having the "12 Lock Pieces" when I present decks, so how do we shave the lock piece in favor of either bringing in the power G2/G3 or vice versa?
Right now I'm playing with Sarkhan Again, which ironically is just 'too slow' in the meta, and then I'm bringing back Glorybringer. A lot of matchups we're losing due to not having enough power, or not being able to remove enough creatures. So why not attempt both? We shave some Ensnaring bridge, and a fast Sarkhan is theroetically helping to find that 1 bridge. G1 against many decks you'll find redundant bridges are "Great" but in many cases not necessary because your opponent does not have THEIR silver bullets. So this got me thinking to slide ourselves in the spectrum closer to Skred Red. What does this look like, we're not sure but we're trying things.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. As of right now I am trying x3 Sarkhan, x3 Glorybringer, x1 Stormbreath, sometimes x2 Hazoret, and shaving some 'utility' but also shaving some of our lock. It is interesting. Results are still pending, but what do people think?
Hello all, I have only posted on this thread a few times, but I really enjoy reading the content and keeping up with the latest news on this deck. I play the deck quite often. I was wondering why there doesn’t seem to be very many postings lately. I used to have a hard time keeping up with all of the posts in a day. Now, there only seems to be one post every few days. Where have all of the posts gone? I miss all of the great discussions.
Hello everyone, I have not commented in a while but I'm coming back.
Fluffy, look at why you do not do so, mounts the deck with the configuration of the trash dragons version, you do a side transformation and put 4 glorybringer, 2 stormbreath dragon, 2 thunderbreak and some roast and turns the deck into a skredless dragon.
as soon as you have enough pressure and the opponent that has collided against artifact gets dead cards as you remove the bridges and chalices.
Glory Be to Red - The tag line of a Glorybringer spell slinging mega dragon build, and something that I'm a bit known for on the forums, case in point to Stickballruss he was the one that suggested some Glorybringer, but for whatever reason the deck clicks for me and... 'everyone thinks I'm mad for doing it.'
I've been looking at the possibility of playing what I call "Inverted Pyro Prison" - I won't really talk about deck lists here but to spin up a conversation on the forums (versus our discord) I wanted to propose the concept here. I think I can take data from earlier this year as reference and then apply to what we are seeing with the current meta-shifts as we approach Q4 2018.
Concept of "Invert Pyro Prison"
- There is actually nothing fancy, it is a re-evaluation of our 75. I've joked that we are the "Pre-boarded" deck, and so the question is always "What is the highest percentage of decks we will see, and how do we set up the 60 to beat them?"
- Invert takes this a slightly different route. Instead of looking at meta % points and trying to game G1 against my opponents, I actually try to 'give myself the best chance across 3 games' - What does this mean?
Matchups that are deemed unfavorable we need the best edge game 1.
Matchups that are deemed favorable we can lose percentage points game 1 for extremly powerful game 2 and game 3.
What do I mean by this?
Early 2018 - Hollow One, Humans, and Grixis Death Shadow - Were almost in the sense "Free Wins" a Blood Moon ruined these, and Bridge was basically an ace in the hole game 1. Game 2 you knew which two puzzle pieces you needed and could easily clean these up. So when you go to sideboard there was not much to grab, not much to add, usually 4 came out and 4 went in and you were just like "Yep lets go."
UW Control, Ad Nauseum, KCI - These matchups were difficult. We'd struggle not having "Quite enough pressure" game 1, and then usually are down a game trying to win games 2 and 3. We bring in silver bullets or more aggression, but now we're flipping a coin on 2 games, and the matchup still could be difficult.
So what would you change back in Early 2018? We talk about "Silver Bullets" in our sideboards, but in essence of a "Toolbox Deck" which contains silver bullets in the main, how do we - A Non Searching Deck - do this? We rely on card filter if possible, and we adjust the utility of our creatures and cards in order to compensate by putting our silver bullets to the sideboard and utilizing them for games 2 and 3. What would this look like?
Example
Ensnaring Bridge is exceptionally good against these favorable matchups. The question being do we need all 4 in the main? Blood Moon was also reasonable as was chalice. I joked about having the "12 Lock Pieces" when I present decks, so how do we shave the lock piece in favor of either bringing in the power G2/G3 or vice versa?
Right now I'm playing with Sarkhan Again, which ironically is just 'too slow' in the meta, and then I'm bringing back Glorybringer. A lot of matchups we're losing due to not having enough power, or not being able to remove enough creatures. So why not attempt both? We shave some Ensnaring bridge, and a fast Sarkhan is theroetically helping to find that 1 bridge. G1 against many decks you'll find redundant bridges are "Great" but in many cases not necessary because your opponent does not have THEIR silver bullets. So this got me thinking to slide ourselves in the spectrum closer to Skred Red. What does this look like, we're not sure but we're trying things.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. As of right now I am trying x3 Sarkhan, x3 Glorybringer, x1 Stormbreath, sometimes x2 Hazoret, and shaving some 'utility' but also shaving some of our lock. It is interesting. Results are still pending, but what do people think?
I think we kinda of need to decide a matchup or 2 and just hope to avoid that. I am playing 3 warboss in addition to 4 rabbles and find the more aggressive line is usually better than the prison line (although some decks can't beat bridge or blood moon main). I think with the extra goblins we can still be really aggressive, dragons I think are good with say 3 abrades and maybe shaving 1 bridge but in a lot of matchups I find the goblins are good enough. Against Tron and UW control which used to be horrible matchups I play 4 eidolon and 3 skab-clan SB and have found that just being really aggressive is good enough to beat these decks and actually same with KCI you just want to be as fast as possible.
I am finding now against Tron and UW control I am a lot less scared of the matchup today I went 3-1 crushing 2 UW control decks and esper control (won all 3 2-0) but lost to dredge 2-1, the 1 game I won was with consecutive goblins being cast and just out-aggroing him. I am wondering if it's worth playing additional graveyard hate for dredge or just hope to avoid it as it's not the creatures which kill you it's 2 swings, 3 creeping chills and 1-2 conflagrate. Unfortunately witchbane orb doesn't stop creeping chill, I am wondering now if I should go back to surgicals as GY hate or Faerie macabre or just assume this is a bad matchup and hope to avoid.
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https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/raystack-5-0-decklist-by-raystack-765709
Here she be. 5-0 in a Competitive league. I faced: GDS / GDS / Burn / Burn / BG Lantern
Recent Changes to Goblin Gun:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (19)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
3 Goblin Chainwhirler
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
Accelerators (8)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
Lands (22)
19 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Damping Matrix
1 Goblin Chainwhirler
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Shattering Spree
1 Shatterstorm
The loss of Ensnaring Bridge from the main deck has been furthered shored up by the addition of (3) Gods to the main deck. They obviously come with perks: Hazoret is a gal we know well. Purphoros finally has found a home! With so many he can be switched on at a reasonable rate, pumping the team is badass, and he often pings for 2 repeatedly when Rabble/Warboss spit out their 'goblin gun' hasty critters.
And, with the gods, we can stand tall in the case of stalemates - finally answers to fatties like Goyf and Gurmag! The ramp has been superb, and check this out: I'm now confident against Tron, and I bring in 0 cards against Burn. None. Ha!
Few questions if I might.
I really like were this deck is heading. It actually suits my play style as well. Aggressive control.
I wondr if there is any way to squeeze Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Chalice comes out immediately - fire it at 1. Use a monkey to get it out if you can.
I'm not sure I understand the Hazoret question. I get her out when I can, and continue to use the discard effect when it makes sense. But, she is a house in this build - currently 2/1 splite md/sb.
I'm still weighing options for win-cons that aren't aggro attack. Maaaaaybe a Koth of the Hammer returns to the SB? The reasoning is that there are times when bridge/angers come in, and you need to find a way to still win. Example of this is Bogles (our best matchup). Normally, we Chandra/Koth our way to victory, but not in this build. All 'goblin gun' gobbos have to come out, since auto-attacking into life-linked fatties is bad jujitsu. And, our hand will start to fill up IF they get out Gaddock Teeg (can't cast our XX chalices).
This example of diminished advantage against bogles illustrates how the Stock List had some 'overly-favored' matchups alongside some struggles against U/W control. Now, we're smoothing our advantages out a little. Current Record is 10-1 with a loss to eldrazi stompy.
Also the W let me try out Oketra the True instead of multiples of other gods.
As to Hazoret. The synergy between it and a bridge is obvious. Not as much so when dumping your hand is not part of the game plan. Still I recognize you really don't have any reactive spells so I get it.
So I went back to testing my earlier Goblin build and ditched the removal for the Crater maker and a focused aggro strategy. I love how it plays but it definitely has different match-ups. In fact almost opposite. I struggled in some match-ups that were un-loseable and smoke them in some match-ups that seemed un-winable.
I have been trying out Goblin Assault as goblin factories #9 and #10. I'm uncertain at this point.
NVM Goblin Assault just does too little when it hits.
I made some changes, like keeping a couple Chandras and added a few copies of Outpost Siege, ideally Purphoros should do damage when our tokens come into play, then there's damage when they attack, even when they're blocked ... also, choosing Khans when card advantage is needed is a good option.
If you want to see the deck, it's here: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/pyro-prison-goblin-siege
Any comments are welcome... and I'll try to write some notes to report after the event.
https://deck.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/22442/show/
@dmunozg: Inspired application of Outpost Siege! Where there was never a reason to elect the 'dragon' modality of that card, you've devised it as the newest 'prison' card.
If you can start ratcheting up the Goblin Gun then the (Rabble/Warboss) 1/1s getting fired acrossed the field EITHER hit for 1 damage OR die for 1 damage. Very cool, dude. I can see Outpost Siege serve as an even better version of Sarkhan, Fireblood. It's a lot easier for Outpost Siege to deal damage OR draw, and it's not in the very crowded 3-cmc slot. Lastly - it ain't all that easy to attack an enchantment. HUh -
I like what you're trying -- will attempt to sleeve up a version of your take on Goblin Gun when I get a moment. Also, forthcoming is a decklist/tourney report from a 10K tournament this weekend - spoiler: there was no money finish this time around.
I'm curious why nobody likes Shared animosity. From a damage perspective it is like another creature factory. Do the math and you can see why I like to drop one of these the turn after either Hanweir Garrison, Legion Warboss or Goblin Rabblemaster. Plus it reduces the devastation of sweepers because you don't have to extend as much..
Obviously it is for a more aggressive, aggro build of goblins.
I do also have Hanweir Battlements in my deck and have used the haste fuction a number of times but never once have I melded them.
Similar observations... I'm thinking on going own on only two Zhalfirin Voids or just change them completely to Mountains. In some moment during the tournament I wanted the Slagstorms to be Angers and was disappointed with the Cratermakers. They could not kill a couple 2/3 Goyfs game 1 that cost me a match and the only time I had the option to use one to kill a Karn, the opponent played a Wurmcoil that was more relevant, so Abrade would have been a better card to have in each case.
I ended the tournament 3-3 ...
I defeated Hardened Scales on round 1, Lantern on round 5 and 8-Rack on round 6 (against lantern I had the fastest concede ever with a turn 1 Chalice). Outpost Siege on Dragon won me one of the games against Hardened Scales in which the opponent blocked most of my attackers and sac'ed all but one of his creatures, taking 2 damage (he was at 3) and completely forgot that the creature he was blocking would die and Siege killed him.
I lost to Jund (I had a penalty for giving my decklist late, so I started my second round with 1 game loss... two Goyfs that I could not get rid of made it a short round), Tron, in which I kept a 1 lander and put a Blood Moon on T1, but didn't find a second land in more than 6 turns, combined with multiple O-Stones and an Ulamog that set me back to 1 land, G2 I didn't find a Blood Moon, so Tron was active and I tried my best, with no success... My round 4 was against U-Tron, which normally don't care about our lock pieces... Mindslaver killed me twice.
I'm planning to replace Cratermeker with a couple Abrades, probably a 4th Warboss and maybe one Slagstorm MB and change all Slagstorms on the SB into Angers. Not sure about other changes, except replacing the Voids... the scry is useful sometimes, but too many colorless sources are frequently painful.
$3,000.00 for 1st place, so let's put all this experimenting and game theorizing to the ultimate test. It's showtime. I scrutinized each card selection, drawing inspiration from all of the suggestions posted by mountainfolk and previous archetypes I've rattled through:
Quite the opposite, I am extremely satisfied with the deck design. I came home after the tourney, reviewed the days events, laid out my alternate card choices, and attempted to improve the deck. No can do. For today's meta, imho nailed it. As you know, I'm not big on long tourney reports, but I'll list off the decks faced & how I sideboarded. Alright, so here's the deck:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge
Creatures (11)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Legion Warboss
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
Removal (4)
2 Slagstorm
2 Abrade
Lands (21)
18 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mutavault
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Damping Matrix
2 Torpor Orb
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Abrade
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Hazoret the Fervent
How's it look? It's mostly a return to my Stock List. Same: land count and composition, ritual count and composition, removal count and composition, lock count, and rabblemaster count.
Notable differences in the Main Deck are a reduction in 4-cmc spells: No Koth - Only 3 Chandra - 1 Hazoret. This allows for a faster board development. I added (2) extra rabbles = warboss, and they all work well together as a team. (4) Devils came in to battle combo/spell/control/tron decks.
Notable differences in the sideboard is a high concentration of Toolbox cards. Anger of the Gods as a 4-of is prohibitively ill-tempered! Alongside 2 Slagstorm, 2 Abrade, and 4 Bridge, I'm positioning myself at the ready against decks that win by attacking - spirits/humans/hollow one/etc. Whereas some might think it's overkill, you can almost never have too much exiling kill against numerous decks out there. I'm perfectly fine with doing 1-for-1 trades if I have to. Otherwise, outside of Hazoret, the other sideboard cards are allllll toolbox cards. Since there are already so many win-cons front loaded into the main deck, I can get away with it.
Matchups:
Its at 1 hour 40 minutes ish in the replay video for Modern Dragons that recently went up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3FjZroP2pw
Its cool to see the match from the other side. I'd love to hear someone's thoughts.
I watched Ultrasuperbob play against Stickballruss the other night in a mirror. He's a sound player - no mistakes that I saw. I did feel for on the clock management of his opponent in the video you provided. He ended at 19:00 and his opponent won at 2:00. His library was revealed, and it was very close to a Stock List of Pyro Prison.
Highlight? He dropped the hammer on a Boooooooooiiiiiil. Opponent had 3 lands. 2 of which were islands. At the start of the opponent's next turn? 1 land, and a heavy fog hung in the air. Nothing like the smell of low, low, low, low tide in the morning.
Or, should I say lowlight. Round 1 // Game 1 VS. Jund
I am on the PLAY and mulligan to 6. I don't know what my opponent is playing, and my hand is slooow. There is a blood moon, ensnaring bridge, chandra, 3 mountains. I don't want to risk the mull to 5, and there's always the chance of a drawn ritual. O.K. Keep.
I am not going to recall all of the plays/draws that occurred, but I don't expect to forget his 4th turn anytime soon. Like, maybe....ever?
I am chugging along with mountain drops, and not casting any spells. He fetches into a dual land on T1 and T2 - casting a Tarmogoyf: 1/2 P/T. No problem there. I start the 3rd turn with a mountain, and naturally cast blood moon. Got him.
Just from the way that he was playing his lands, I could tell that he wasn't sandbagging any basic lands in his hand. On his 3rd turn, he attacks for 1 and then plays another useless dual land. Bear in mind that this deck plays something like (1) basic land of each in his (60).
So, it's the 4th turn, and I'm feeling confident. He has 3 mountains and a 1/2 Goyf. I now have 4 mountains, a blood moon and a decision to make: Chandra or ensnaring bridge?
It'll be a while before I can get under a bridge, and there's not really much of an onboard threat to Chandra, so....Chandra gets cast and I tick up to (5) loyalty on an exile.
On the opponent's 4th turn, he top decks a forest. Plays the forest and a blood braid elf which reveals a thoughtseize. The bridge in my hand gets rubbished. The opponent's Goyf grows to a 3/4 and joins BBE in an attack upon Chandra. She dead. A few turns later, so am I.
ANOTHER QUICK ONE:
Before the tournament, I go over to the vendors' to buy a 3rd Hazoret the Fervent for my Pyro Prison deck. I shout over the request, some dude comes over with one, and $4.00 later I walk away with my last needed card for the deck that day.
In round 3, I seat myself across from someone I don't recognize and offer a hello. He says we've already met earlier that day. I tell him he must be confusing me with someone else. He's sure of it, and reminds me that I bought a Hazoret the Fervent from him over at the vendor area.
I say, "Ooooooh, yeah. I needed that card for an EDH tournament tomorrow." 'Suuuuure'. People around us laugh, and we start the tournament with me partially tipping my hand to my opponent. What are the odds?!?!!?
I've been looking at the possibility of playing what I call "Inverted Pyro Prison" - I won't really talk about deck lists here but to spin up a conversation on the forums (versus our discord) I wanted to propose the concept here. I think I can take data from earlier this year as reference and then apply to what we are seeing with the current meta-shifts as we approach Q4 2018.
Concept of "Invert Pyro Prison"
- There is actually nothing fancy, it is a re-evaluation of our 75. I've joked that we are the "Pre-boarded" deck, and so the question is always "What is the highest percentage of decks we will see, and how do we set up the 60 to beat them?"
- Invert takes this a slightly different route. Instead of looking at meta % points and trying to game G1 against my opponents, I actually try to 'give myself the best chance across 3 games' - What does this mean?
Matchups that are deemed unfavorable we need the best edge game 1.
Matchups that are deemed favorable we can lose percentage points game 1 for extremly powerful game 2 and game 3.
What do I mean by this?
Early 2018 - Hollow One, Humans, and Grixis Death Shadow - Were almost in the sense "Free Wins" a Blood Moon ruined these, and Bridge was basically an ace in the hole game 1. Game 2 you knew which two puzzle pieces you needed and could easily clean these up. So when you go to sideboard there was not much to grab, not much to add, usually 4 came out and 4 went in and you were just like "Yep lets go."
UW Control, Ad Nauseum, KCI - These matchups were difficult. We'd struggle not having "Quite enough pressure" game 1, and then usually are down a game trying to win games 2 and 3. We bring in silver bullets or more aggression, but now we're flipping a coin on 2 games, and the matchup still could be difficult.
So what would you change back in Early 2018? We talk about "Silver Bullets" in our sideboards, but in essence of a "Toolbox Deck" which contains silver bullets in the main, how do we - A Non Searching Deck - do this? We rely on card filter if possible, and we adjust the utility of our creatures and cards in order to compensate by putting our silver bullets to the sideboard and utilizing them for games 2 and 3. What would this look like?
Example
Ensnaring Bridge is exceptionally good against these favorable matchups. The question being do we need all 4 in the main? Blood Moon was also reasonable as was chalice. I joked about having the "12 Lock Pieces" when I present decks, so how do we shave the lock piece in favor of either bringing in the power G2/G3 or vice versa?
Right now I'm playing with Sarkhan Again, which ironically is just 'too slow' in the meta, and then I'm bringing back Glorybringer. A lot of matchups we're losing due to not having enough power, or not being able to remove enough creatures. So why not attempt both? We shave some Ensnaring bridge, and a fast Sarkhan is theroetically helping to find that 1 bridge. G1 against many decks you'll find redundant bridges are "Great" but in many cases not necessary because your opponent does not have THEIR silver bullets. So this got me thinking to slide ourselves in the spectrum closer to Skred Red. What does this look like, we're not sure but we're trying things.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. As of right now I am trying x3 Sarkhan, x3 Glorybringer, x1 Stormbreath, sometimes x2 Hazoret, and shaving some 'utility' but also shaving some of our lock. It is interesting. Results are still pending, but what do people think?
Fluffy, look at why you do not do so, mounts the deck with the configuration of the trash dragons version, you do a side transformation and put 4 glorybringer, 2 stormbreath dragon, 2 thunderbreak and some roast and turns the deck into a skredless dragon.
as soon as you have enough pressure and the opponent that has collided against artifact gets dead cards as you remove the bridges and chalices.
I think we kinda of need to decide a matchup or 2 and just hope to avoid that. I am playing 3 warboss in addition to 4 rabbles and find the more aggressive line is usually better than the prison line (although some decks can't beat bridge or blood moon main). I think with the extra goblins we can still be really aggressive, dragons I think are good with say 3 abrades and maybe shaving 1 bridge but in a lot of matchups I find the goblins are good enough. Against Tron and UW control which used to be horrible matchups I play 4 eidolon and 3 skab-clan SB and have found that just being really aggressive is good enough to beat these decks and actually same with KCI you just want to be as fast as possible.