Howdy, new to the deck. How well does this deck mulligan? Is a slower hand (one without ramp) good when it has the answer you're looking for? And what's our best way of attacking Tron besides early Blood moons?
I aggressively mulligan my hands. First as a free win deck, we really want to goldfish that god draw and win on turn 1-2. Secondly as you know this deck does not rely on card advantage . The opposite in fact. I bet 20% of my losses are me mulling down to 3 or 2 and conceding.
I imagine that's kinda cheesy and annoying to the opponent but they are already annoyed by the deck we play as it is.
Howdy, new to the deck. How well does this deck mulligan? Is a slower hand (one without ramp) good when it has the answer you're looking for? And what's our best way of attacking Tron besides early Blood moons?
Personally I don’t see this deck as free win at all, when I play for big events or cash prizes (the only time I put in 100% effort and I’m hyper focused) I think through every line and that thought process is, in my opinion, skill based. Knowing your deck and knowing your opponents deck will win you more games than anything else. Id say I mulligan well, I never keep a one land hand in the blind game 1 unless it’s a turn one Chandra for future mana purposes. Without ramp turn 2 chalice on 1 turn three moon/rabble into turn 4 hazoret/planeswalker/avaricious dragon is a strong curve and I’ve won many games without the fast start. All that being said, in the blind I don’t mulligan for any given card. I don’t remember who said it on this forum, but sometimes you gotta trust the deck. It’s not about mulliganing agressively it’s about mulliganing into a playable hand. I’ve beat tron and infect on a mull to 5 (only decks I remember doing this to). Against tron you need a fast rabble into a fast moon, play draw really matters here. Game one is possible but I usually expect to lose pre sideboard. Games 2 and 3 you want moon and either spyglass on o-stone or damping matrix which is just a house against o-stone and the other problem card ballista. If you don’t have matrix or spyglass you’re going to want to hold abrade. Abrade is also nice because it takes out a wurmcoil. Additionally chalice on 1 and eidolon of the great revel are fine in this matchup but if not paired with moon they seem to be too cute to be of any real consequence. Moon by itself will never cut it, they either get to 5 mana and o-stone, 6 mana and wurmcoil, or 7 mana and karn, even though as Fluffy pointed out on his stream, they only run 18 lands. Hope this answered all your questions lonen00b!
@GPash: Looking at that mousetrap....ummmm. Gotta think on that one.
@Natehill: Wise words. Nice to hear your voice around these parts again.
@Frig: Keep cranking. I see where you're going, and I just petitioned Walked to share any updates that he has on his Silver Moon variant - should be helpful to you.
O.K. - A Modern season on MTGO just closed. So, let's see where we stood for repeatedly successful decks. It's pretty much me (MTGO username: Raystack) & Russ Colosi (stickballruss / fadvisor82).
So, what's new for the season? In a few words, Guilds of Ravnica. Two motherjammers just wandered out of town and up the mountainside: Goblin Cratermaker and Legion Warboss. What do we think? Let 'em in?
Goblin Cratermaker = Abrade. That's how I see it. He is Abrade on a Stick. And, better than that, he can fell titans like Karn, Ugin, TKS, Endbringer, Reality Smasher, and he can attack planeswalkers. Get 'Em! He's not just a shatter or a shock. He's a smooth 2-drop that pays dividends instead of a drawn abrade on turn 2 with no targets and nothing else to cast. Don't know if you noticed, but...while you were reading this, I just cleared a spot for him around the campfire. He's in.
Legion Warboss = Ensnaring Bridge. That's right. By tag-teaming Warboss with Rabblemaster, the creature count has reached critical mass. These two are firing out 1/1 Goblins each turn like a gatling gun....a gobling gun, perhaps. So much so, that we should be able to, with the assistance of chalice/moon, run over an opponent or square up for a fair fight.
Note: Eidolon of the great revel has also joined the main deck party, ala Porno for Pyros builds, which swells the main deck creature count to the new heights. No Longer! Never again shall we issue calls for aid from our top deck draws. The win-cons are now creature based and everywhere. Quick sidenote: Goblin Chainwhirler is a 4-of, and totally replaces all maindeck sweepers. So, that means NO maindeck sweepers/spot removal, just Goblins. Are we really putting that much faith in Goblins. For the purposes of early testing, Yes! Warboss is a new leader. He's in.
But, what of the Planeswalkers?! There are none? Indeed. None. Without ensnaring bridge, I simply can not protect them. And, I won't have their blood on my hands, kinfolk! Neither Chandra's nor Koth's....funky, lava ooze. Does Koth have blood?? Yeah, they're out. This deck goes low to the ground in game one, and uses a transitional sideboard in game 2.
Transitional sideboard: (4) Ensnaring Bridge and (4) Anger of the Gods. In those cases where we can't hope to overwhelm in a fair fight, then we are back to a more traditional Pyro Prison build. Pull the Eidolons out and go Bridge/Anger or a mix. Depends. But, we will see this action against:
Bogles, Soul Sisters, Elves, Hollow One, Humans, Merfolk, Spirit-Aggro, BridgeVine.
I'm curious on Goblin Chainwhirler. Is he really so good you'd replace every sweeper and go all the way up to 4? Seems like he's only a good sweeper early game. Also, how does Legion Warboss act as Ensnaring Bridge if the tokens are forced to attack each turn?
@GPash: Looking at that mousetrap....ummmm. Gotta think on that one.
@Natehill: Wise words. Nice to hear your voice around these parts again.
@Frig: Keep cranking. I see where you're going, and I just petitioned Walked to share any updates that he has on his Silver Moon variant - should be helpful to you.
O.K. - A Modern season on MTGO just closed. So, let's see where we stood for repeatedly successful decks. It's pretty much me (MTGO username: Raystack) & Russ Colosi (stickballruss / fadvisor82).
So, what's new for the season? In a few words, Guilds of Ravnica. Two motherjammers just wandered out of town and up the mountainside: Goblin Cratermaker and Legion Warboss. What do we think? Let 'em in?
Goblin Cratermaker = Abrade. That's how I see it. He is Abrade on a Stick. And, better than that, he can fell titans like Karn, Ugin, TKS, Endbringer, Reality Smasher, and he can attack planeswalkers. Get 'Em! He's not just a shatter or a shock. He's a smooth 2-drop that pays dividends instead of a drawn abrade on turn 2 with no targets and nothing else to cast. Don't know if you noticed, but...while you were reading this, I just cleared a spot for him around the campfire. He's in.
Legion Warboss = Ensnaring Bridge. That's right. By tag-teaming Warboss with Rabblemaster, the creature count has reached critical mass. These two are firing out 1/1 Goblins each turn like a gatling gun....a gobling gun, perhaps. So much so, that we should be able to, with the assistance of chalice/moon, run over an opponent or square up for a fair fight.
Note: Eidolon of the great revel has also joined the main deck party, ala Porno for Pyros builds, which swells the main deck creature count to the new heights. No Longer! Never again shall we issue calls for aid from our top deck draws. The win-cons are now creature based and everywhere. Quick sidenote: Goblin Chainwhirler is a 4-of, and totally replaces all maindeck sweepers. So, that means NO maindeck sweepers/spot removal, just Goblins. Are we really putting that much faith in Goblins. For the purposes of early testing, Yes! Warboss is a new leader. He's in.
But, what of the Planeswalkers?! There are none? Indeed. None. Without ensnaring bridge, I simply can not protect them. And, I won't have their blood on my hands, kinfolk! Neither Chandra's nor Koth's....funky, lava ooze. Does Koth have blood?? Yeah, they're out. This deck goes low to the ground in game one, and uses a transitional sideboard in game 2.
Transitional sideboard: (4) Ensnaring Bridge and (4) Anger of the Gods. In those cases where we can't hope to overwhelm in a fair fight, then we are back to a more traditional Pyro Prison build. Pull the Eidolons out and go Bridge/Anger or a mix. Depends. But, we will see this action against:
Bogles, Soul Sisters, Elves, Hollow One, Humans, Merfolk, Spirit-Aggro, BridgeVine.
@GPash: Looking at that mousetrap....ummmm. Gotta think on that one.
@Natehill: Wise words. Nice to hear your voice around these parts again.
@Frig: Keep cranking. I see where you're going, and I just petitioned Walked to share any updates that he has on his Silver Moon variant - should be helpful to you.
O.K. - A Modern season on MTGO just closed. So, let's see where we stood for repeatedly successful decks. It's pretty much me (MTGO username: Raystack) & Russ Colosi (stickballruss / fadvisor82).
So, what's new for the season? In a few words, Guilds of Ravnica. Two motherjammers just wandered out of town and up the mountainside: Goblin Cratermaker and Legion Warboss. What do we think? Let 'em in?
Goblin Cratermaker = Abrade. That's how I see it. He is Abrade on a Stick. And, better than that, he can fell titans like Karn, Ugin, TKS, Endbringer, Reality Smasher, and he can attack planeswalkers. Get 'Em! He's not just a shatter or a shock. He's a smooth 2-drop that pays dividends instead of a drawn abrade on turn 2 with no targets and nothing else to cast. Don't know if you noticed, but...while you were reading this, I just cleared a spot for him around the campfire. He's in.
Legion Warboss = Ensnaring Bridge. That's right. By tag-teaming Warboss with Rabblemaster, the creature count has reached critical mass. These two are firing out 1/1 Goblins each turn like a gatling gun....a gobling gun, perhaps. So much so, that we should be able to, with the assistance of chalice/moon, run over an opponent or square up for a fair fight.
Note: Eidolon of the great revel has also joined the main deck party, ala Porno for Pyros builds, which swells the main deck creature count to the new heights. No Longer! Never again shall we issue calls for aid from our top deck draws. The win-cons are now creature based and everywhere. Quick sidenote: Goblin Chainwhirler is a 4-of, and totally replaces all maindeck sweepers. So, that means NO maindeck sweepers/spot removal, just Goblins. Are we really putting that much faith in Goblins. For the purposes of early testing, Yes! Warboss is a new leader. He's in.
But, what of the Planeswalkers?! There are none? Indeed. None. Without ensnaring bridge, I simply can not protect them. And, I won't have their blood on my hands, kinfolk! Neither Chandra's nor Koth's....funky, lava ooze. Does Koth have blood?? Yeah, they're out. This deck goes low to the ground in game one, and uses a transitional sideboard in game 2.
Transitional sideboard: (4) Ensnaring Bridge and (4) Anger of the Gods. In those cases where we can't hope to overwhelm in a fair fight, then we are back to a more traditional Pyro Prison build. Pull the Eidolons out and go Bridge/Anger or a mix. Depends. But, we will see this action against:
Bogles, Soul Sisters, Elves, Hollow One, Humans, Merfolk, Spirit-Aggro, BridgeVine.
Let's see how these Goblin Shoes run. Notice how many 4-ofs are in the list? Consistency aaaaand Explosiveness, me hopes.
I've been mucking with something along these lines for a few days. Here are my takes (your experience may vary).
1. The decks I did poorly against I do much better. Control, combo. Conversely the decks I did great against I do poorly. Hollow one and the like. Humans. Glint steel. They just suck up my goblins.
2. Chalice is set to 0 or 1 or it shuts you down. those are only situationaly useful so I moved the cups to the board. I thought the spots better filled with Goblins.
3. I had gotten rid off sweepers but not spot removal. Skred and Lightning.
4. I tried no removal and found my games played pretty much the same.
5. I felt that Eidolon of the Great Revel hurt me more with this build then in a more traditional build as I was relying on 3 plus cmc in multiples (not just one Chandra or 1 Moon) and the games do not become long stalemates.
6. I found a few different cards to be huge Goblin Piledriver has huge synergy with a boss or master. Warren Instigator on turn 1 was a beast. Goblin King with mountainwalk should have been great. Never was.
Ultimately their creatures were bigger then mine and the ramp only seemed to help so much. I wonder if the deck is better no ramp with good 1 and 2 drop goblins. But then it would just a plain goblin deck.
But this did give me inspiration to make some changes for my artifact free win deck. I was great at creature and mid decks. Surprisingly good against Jund because of all of the Welding jar to save my constructs and Bridges. Decent to good at burn (because of Claws of Gix and Inventors' Fair) Bad at the typical control combo because of the lack of explosiveness. So I made a side board to transform the deck into something explosive. The others bad matchups I have just written off.
Here is the sideboard I have been playing the last 50 games or so.
If you guys don't mind, could someone glance over my list and see if I'm missing anything crucial? Any non-synergies I may not be aware of or something I'm missing? I think it's pretty close to a stock list for right now.
If you guys don't mind, could someone glance over my list and see if I'm missing anything crucial? Any non-synergies I may not be aware of or something I'm missing? I think it's pretty close to a stock list for right now.
List looks fairly stock to me. I'd probably consider something different then Cratermaker and Bonfire personally but it is always worth seeing what your local meta is doing and what you like to play. List is fairly stock though =)
Edit: Also OMG Raystack with the post :O!!!!
Gonna read it through cause I've actually hit a pocket since GRN went live with doing... sorta bad (yet going one solid flawless 5-0 in Friendly leagues...) It is weird cause people are trying things at the moment, as am I.
Fluff saw your 5-0. Watched the stream. Boss! Hey, it was an undefeated 5-0 to be fair.
I did a 4-1 in a friendly with Goblin Shoes. Loss was to a ridonculous Mono - White Martyr deck that needed bridge for an assured win.
Reviewing Frig’s thoughts and analysis. It makes sense for where he’s pushing the testing. BUT, that’s not where I’m going.
BREAKDOWN
I say NO skred/bolt/removal, but he says yes.
I say keep in the Chalice main deck, and he says no.
I maintain a balanced sideboard, but he goes full Goblin Aggro on the Transitional, whereas I would never not have 4 Goblin Rabblemaster in the Main deck.
Goblin Piledriver and Warren Instigator are fine cards, but provide 0 board impact upon casting. They are way down the totem pole on viable goblin options UNLESS you’re going for a dedicated goblin deck, as you wisely note, but...even then. no.
Lastly, Eidolon is a nope in your list, but they’re tremendously useful in a creature dense build. Similarly, a single Magus can be heaven sent as blood moon 5. These inclusions ONLY work as part of a greater assemblage of ground pounders.
Historically, It’s appreciable. Eidolon was NEVER considered useful as any part of the 75. And, then. Suddenly. A lightbulb.
Take all of this feedback with the greatest of respect. Just some jibber jibber, Friend.
@Fluffy: How About That Build I Proposed? As Frig noted, it’s style has a very specific pivot on success rates for traditional matchups. Highlight: 4 Chainwhirler to punch through alongside Warboss AND 4 Eidolon to punish spell-heavy creations as well as control/combo.
Stuff I've been mucking around with is Massive Raid as an exspensive but instant speed goblin war strike. It's been cute but sometimes it kills a goyf or other fatty and sometimes just comes the head for huge behind a bridge. I dont know if would consider it good but there.
Grab the Reins looks to be a great coup de grace card. I can see sacing a pumped up Goblin rabblemaster jsut as it inevitable dies to a 2/2 chump block.
Wouldn't it be more useful to just pack in snow covered mountains and Skred over massive raid. One would need to have at least 4 goblins on board at 3 lands for it to be better and even then it's 3 vs 1 cmc. I think Skred will come in handy earlier and even mid late game the damage difference is likely not significant. Plus with the tight mana raid would likely be the only spell you cast that turn.
Ray, Grab the Reins looks amazing. Fits in well with the turn 4 rabblemaster kill, providing exactly 20 damage if we turn 2 rabblemaster turn 4 grab the reins after attacks, or turn 3 kill if we turn one rabble turn 3 reins. Obviously we need to fade blocks and kill spells, but that’s the type of game you play against tron and combo. Just based on a quick analysis this seems like a bomb against a lot of decks, providing a faster kill against combo where one turn can change the outcome of a game, or against control where we need to be fast. Against aggro it can be nuts too, I notice humans and value town LOVE pumping up their creatures while they’re stuck behind a bridge, little do they know they’re just giving us a plump win con for 7 mana. Also in niche cases provides reach to hit planeswalkers. I’m going to start testing this card soon for sure!
So, anyone got to play against AssTro at their FNM? How was it?
I don't go to FNM but online I have played against it a fair amount of times. It literally just hits everything that Abrupt Decay did previously. Yes on occasion it has hit a Chandra but the decks running it normally ran 2 Maelstrom Pulses anyway. With this idea when you run multiple Bridges out for example you are normally in better shape. Problem is they are likely still running a 1-of Maelstrom Pulse.
Worst card still remains to be Liliana of the Veil in the BGx decks, along with the quickness that a Tarmogoyf kills us because we offer more the average number of card types to end up in the graveyard.
Grab the Reins looks to be a great coup de grace card. I can see sacing a pumped up Goblin rabblemaster jsut as it inevitable dies to a 2/2 chump block.
Wouldn't it be more useful to just pack in snow covered mountains and Skred over massive raid. One would need to have at least 4 goblins on board at 3 lands for it to be better and even then it's 3 vs 1 cmc. I think Skred will come in handy earlier and even mid late game the damage difference is likely not significant. Plus with the tight mana raid would likely be the only spell you cast that turn.
I think the reason to consider Massive Raid is it is a burn spell to face. Skred is strictly a control removal card, and that is not exactly where this deck lies. The deck lies in the pivot and proactive/aggressive side of Prison. I wouldn't necessarily say it is a good card, but that is why it differs from Skred.
Apologies if I’ve missed this discussion somewhere in the thread, but has anyone tried out trinisphere? Seems like it could be strong against a good portion of decks.
It's been tried, Jayngles. Trinisphere is best utilized in legacy decks: Sol Lands and fast artifact mana. For us? It renders our rituals useless, and just generally a bit too slow for Modern.
Goblin Gun continues to get tweaked, and Fluffy ran a couple leagues with a variant last night. My Changes:
+ Mountain
- Mutavault
(gotta maximize as much red as possible for early Eidolon/Ninja)
+ Hazoret the Fervent
- Pyretic Ritual
(with a lower-to-the-ground build, rituals aren't as necessary)
I thiiiiink I'll explore a 2nd Hazoret the Fervent in the maindeck. I'm still shying away from Planeswalkers at this point for fear of being unable to protect them. I bopped a phyrexian metamorph in the SB last night, and copied a Gurmag Angler. 1 Fish - 2 Fish
I aggressively mulligan my hands. First as a free win deck, we really want to goldfish that god draw and win on turn 1-2. Secondly as you know this deck does not rely on card advantage . The opposite in fact. I bet 20% of my losses are me mulling down to 3 or 2 and conceding.
I imagine that's kinda cheesy and annoying to the opponent but they are already annoyed by the deck we play as it is.
Personally I don’t see this deck as free win at all, when I play for big events or cash prizes (the only time I put in 100% effort and I’m hyper focused) I think through every line and that thought process is, in my opinion, skill based. Knowing your deck and knowing your opponents deck will win you more games than anything else. Id say I mulligan well, I never keep a one land hand in the blind game 1 unless it’s a turn one Chandra for future mana purposes. Without ramp turn 2 chalice on 1 turn three moon/rabble into turn 4 hazoret/planeswalker/avaricious dragon is a strong curve and I’ve won many games without the fast start. All that being said, in the blind I don’t mulligan for any given card. I don’t remember who said it on this forum, but sometimes you gotta trust the deck. It’s not about mulliganing agressively it’s about mulliganing into a playable hand. I’ve beat tron and infect on a mull to 5 (only decks I remember doing this to). Against tron you need a fast rabble into a fast moon, play draw really matters here. Game one is possible but I usually expect to lose pre sideboard. Games 2 and 3 you want moon and either spyglass on o-stone or damping matrix which is just a house against o-stone and the other problem card ballista. If you don’t have matrix or spyglass you’re going to want to hold abrade. Abrade is also nice because it takes out a wurmcoil. Additionally chalice on 1 and eidolon of the great revel are fine in this matchup but if not paired with moon they seem to be too cute to be of any real consequence. Moon by itself will never cut it, they either get to 5 mana and o-stone, 6 mana and wurmcoil, or 7 mana and karn, even though as Fluffy pointed out on his stream, they only run 18 lands. Hope this answered all your questions lonen00b!
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Flamewake Phoenix
2 Glorybringer
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Hollow One
4 Street Wraith
3 Sarkhan, Fireblood
4 Faithless Looting
3 Blood Moon
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fiery Temper
3 Gemstone Caverns
17 Mountain
2 Shattering Spree
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Skullcrack
2 Damping Sphere
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Goblin Chainwhirler
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Boil
And yes there were only 14 sb cards listed.
@Natehill: Wise words. Nice to hear your voice around these parts again.
@Frig: Keep cranking. I see where you're going, and I just petitioned Walked to share any updates that he has on his Silver Moon variant - should be helpful to you.
O.K. - A Modern season on MTGO just closed. So, let's see where we stood for repeatedly successful decks. It's pretty much me (MTGO username: Raystack) & Russ Colosi (stickballruss / fadvisor82).
Russ put up (6) 5-0 Trophies with this variant on the Stock List:
https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/deck-decklist-by-fadvisor82-5-0-762631
And, I nabbed (4) 5-0 Trophies and a Modern Challenge Top 8 with varying builds of a Trash Dragons list.
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (7)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Avaricious Dragon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Walking Ballista
Planeswalkers (6)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Sarkhan, Fireblood
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Magma Jet
1 Slagstorm
1 Collective Defiance
Accelerators (11)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Pyretic Ritual
1 Faithless Looting
3 (+) Gemstone Caverns
Lands (21)
15 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
3 Zhalfirin Void
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Damping Matrix
1 Torpor Orb
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Shattering Spree
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Goblin Chainwhirler
So, what's new for the season? In a few words, Guilds of Ravnica. Two motherjammers just wandered out of town and up the mountainside: Goblin Cratermaker and Legion Warboss. What do we think? Let 'em in?
Goblin Cratermaker = Abrade. That's how I see it. He is Abrade on a Stick. And, better than that, he can fell titans like Karn, Ugin, TKS, Endbringer, Reality Smasher, and he can attack planeswalkers. Get 'Em! He's not just a shatter or a shock. He's a smooth 2-drop that pays dividends instead of a drawn abrade on turn 2 with no targets and nothing else to cast. Don't know if you noticed, but...while you were reading this, I just cleared a spot for him around the campfire. He's in.
Legion Warboss = Ensnaring Bridge. That's right. By tag-teaming Warboss with Rabblemaster, the creature count has reached critical mass. These two are firing out 1/1 Goblins each turn like a gatling gun....a gobling gun, perhaps.
Note: Eidolon of the great revel has also joined the main deck party, ala Porno for Pyros builds, which swells the main deck creature count to the new heights. No Longer! Never again shall we issue calls for aid from our top deck draws. The win-cons are now creature based and everywhere. Quick sidenote: Goblin Chainwhirler is a 4-of, and totally replaces all maindeck sweepers. So, that means NO maindeck sweepers/spot removal, just Goblins. Are we really putting that much faith in Goblins. For the purposes of early testing, Yes! Warboss is a new leader. He's in.
But, what of the Planeswalkers?! There are none? Indeed. None. Without ensnaring bridge, I simply can not protect them. And, I won't have their blood on my hands, kinfolk! Neither Chandra's nor Koth's....funky, lava ooze. Does Koth have blood?? Yeah, they're out. This deck goes low to the ground in game one, and uses a transitional sideboard in game 2.
Transitional sideboard: (4) Ensnaring Bridge and (4) Anger of the Gods. In those cases where we can't hope to overwhelm in a fair fight, then we are back to a more traditional Pyro Prison build. Pull the Eidolons out and go Bridge/Anger or a mix. Depends. But, we will see this action against:
Bogles, Soul Sisters, Elves, Hollow One, Humans, Merfolk, Spirit-Aggro, BridgeVine.
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (21)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
Lands (22)
18 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mutavault
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Anger of the Gods
1 Damping Matrix
1 Torpor Orb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Shattering Spree
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Hazoret the Fervent
PROTOTYPE 1.0
Let's see how these Goblin Shoes run. Notice how many 4-ofs are in the list? Consistency aaaaand Explosiveness, me hopes.
I've been mucking with something along these lines for a few days. Here are my takes (your experience may vary).
1. The decks I did poorly against I do much better. Control, combo. Conversely the decks I did great against I do poorly. Hollow one and the like. Humans. Glint steel. They just suck up my goblins.
2. Chalice is set to 0 or 1 or it shuts you down. those are only situationaly useful so I moved the cups to the board. I thought the spots better filled with Goblins.
3. I had gotten rid off sweepers but not spot removal. Skred and Lightning.
4. I tried no removal and found my games played pretty much the same.
5. I felt that Eidolon of the Great Revel hurt me more with this build then in a more traditional build as I was relying on 3 plus cmc in multiples (not just one Chandra or 1 Moon) and the games do not become long stalemates.
6. I found a few different cards to be huge Goblin Piledriver has huge synergy with a boss or master. Warren Instigator on turn 1 was a beast. Goblin King with mountainwalk should have been great. Never was.
Ultimately their creatures were bigger then mine and the ramp only seemed to help so much. I wonder if the deck is better no ramp with good 1 and 2 drop goblins. But then it would just a plain goblin deck.
But this did give me inspiration to make some changes for my artifact free win deck. I was great at creature and mid decks. Surprisingly good against Jund because of all of the Welding jar to save my constructs and Bridges. Decent to good at burn (because of Claws of Gix and Inventors' Fair) Bad at the typical control combo because of the lack of explosiveness. So I made a side board to transform the deck into something explosive. The others bad matchups I have just written off.
Here is the sideboard I have been playing the last 50 games or so.
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Legion Warboss
2 Boil
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
I just transform the deck into a goblin deck when the Bloodmoon or Bridges or sweepers come out.
Ensnaring bridge —- of sorts. Crowd the battlefield with enough bodies to create a bulwark. OR, enough to create a stalemate standoff.
@Frig: superb feedback. I’ll definitely refelect.
Overall, the exciting evolution is RRR and RR spells. Early on, we kept searching for Rrr spells to justify staying mono-red under a blood moon.
There was ball lightning, cyclops gladiator, ..... not much. Since then, a lot of Rrr has been published.
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
Cut it out
2 Abrade
1 Slagstorm
I'll win eventually
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Avaricious Dragon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Walking Ballista
2 Goblin Chainwhirler
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
4 Simian Spirit Guide
I need these I guess
14 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mutavault
3 Ramunap Ruins
You thought you were safe?
1 Shattering Spree
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Boil
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Torpor Orb
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Damping Matrix
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Bonfire of the Damned
List looks fairly stock to me. I'd probably consider something different then Cratermaker and Bonfire personally but it is always worth seeing what your local meta is doing and what you like to play. List is fairly stock though =)
Edit: Also OMG Raystack with the post :O!!!!
Gonna read it through cause I've actually hit a pocket since GRN went live with doing... sorta bad (yet going one solid flawless 5-0 in Friendly leagues...) It is weird cause people are trying things at the moment, as am I.
I did a 4-1 in a friendly with Goblin Shoes. Loss was to a ridonculous Mono - White Martyr deck that needed bridge for an assured win.
Reviewing Frig’s thoughts and analysis. It makes sense for where he’s pushing the testing. BUT, that’s not where I’m going.
BREAKDOWN
I say NO skred/bolt/removal, but he says yes.
I say keep in the Chalice main deck, and he says no.
I maintain a balanced sideboard, but he goes full Goblin Aggro on the Transitional, whereas I would never not have 4 Goblin Rabblemaster in the Main deck.
Goblin Piledriver and Warren Instigator are fine cards, but provide 0 board impact upon casting. They are way down the totem pole on viable goblin options UNLESS you’re going for a dedicated goblin deck, as you wisely note, but...even then. no.
Lastly, Eidolon is a nope in your list, but they’re tremendously useful in a creature dense build. Similarly, a single Magus can be heaven sent as blood moon 5. These inclusions ONLY work as part of a greater assemblage of ground pounders.
Historically, It’s appreciable. Eidolon was NEVER considered useful as any part of the 75. And, then. Suddenly. A lightbulb.
Take all of this feedback with the greatest of respect. Just some jibber jibber, Friend.
@Fluffy: How About That Build I Proposed? As Frig noted, it’s style has a very specific pivot on success rates for traditional matchups. Highlight: 4 Chainwhirler to punch through alongside Warboss AND 4 Eidolon to punish spell-heavy creations as well as control/combo.
Give it a whirl....
I will pay attention to how many creatures are out and how it would play out if I drew one.
Another option with more adaptability: grab the reins. Picture a pumped rabble OR nabbing a wurmcoil/goyf/primetime/Eldrazi to deliver a surprise win.
Wouldn't it be more useful to just pack in snow covered mountains and Skred over massive raid. One would need to have at least 4 goblins on board at 3 lands for it to be better and even then it's 3 vs 1 cmc. I think Skred will come in handy earlier and even mid late game the damage difference is likely not significant. Plus with the tight mana raid would likely be the only spell you cast that turn.
I don't go to FNM but online I have played against it a fair amount of times. It literally just hits everything that Abrupt Decay did previously. Yes on occasion it has hit a Chandra but the decks running it normally ran 2 Maelstrom Pulses anyway. With this idea when you run multiple Bridges out for example you are normally in better shape. Problem is they are likely still running a 1-of Maelstrom Pulse.
Worst card still remains to be Liliana of the Veil in the BGx decks, along with the quickness that a Tarmogoyf kills us because we offer more the average number of card types to end up in the graveyard.
I think the reason to consider Massive Raid is it is a burn spell to face. Skred is strictly a control removal card, and that is not exactly where this deck lies. The deck lies in the pivot and proactive/aggressive side of Prison. I wouldn't necessarily say it is a good card, but that is why it differs from Skred.
Goblin Gun continues to get tweaked, and Fluffy ran a couple leagues with a variant last night. My Changes:
+ Mountain
- Mutavault
(gotta maximize as much red as possible for early Eidolon/Ninja)
+ Hazoret the Fervent
- Pyretic Ritual
(with a lower-to-the-ground build, rituals aren't as necessary)
I thiiiiink I'll explore a 2nd Hazoret the Fervent in the maindeck. I'm still shying away from Planeswalkers at this point for fear of being unable to protect them. I bopped a phyrexian metamorph in the SB last night, and copied a Gurmag Angler. 1 Fish - 2 Fish