Just saw Uba Mask on Russ’ latest 5-0. Say what?! Sorry if I missed the discussion, but when is this used?
Yep we are certainly experimenting with it. UW Miracles needs to draw their cards to miracle, and also usually attempts to gain advantages. You can actually get through their counter magic when the rest of it sits in exile from draws. Aether Vial and Uba mask also do not get along, as cards never make it to their hand. Blood Moon + Uba Mask against say Humans can do odd things, as it can also against Wx taxes lists. It is still in experimentation phase but it does some strange things for sure and can have very nice effects on the game.
Sarkhan has come home to roost, y'all! Actually, Sarkhan!?!? Huh, has he ever been played in the first place?
Gotta say - pretty much nope. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker did run a few laps out on the track, but never quite made the cut. (Although - there was this one time at an FNM in Boston when I slammed a T1 Sarkhan - opponent scooped 2 turns later - there's a pic of my playmat/board in a tourney reporta couple years ago) And, THEN a few months ago - Sarkhan, Fireblood strutted onto the stage. It was like a late 90s grunge video suddenly flickered onto our screen. Huh. Can this former frontman from Seattle shred?
What did we find? Ummm...overall positive. Not unlike Eidolon the Great Revel, it seemed like it was 'lean hard into a high count or ignore this dude altogether'. But, not everybody bought in for his usage, and doubts definitely continue to linger. Most notably, Stickballruss is crushing it with his version of Pyro Prison. >>> Russ, I tried to find a link to your recent 'no-sarkhan' decklist (2 Goblin Rabblemaster / 2 Ballista / 1 Hazoret), but you haven't seemed to have posted it here -- please share when you get a chance.
So, the Stock List is definitely representing, and there have also been high profile finishes for Trash Dragons. You can see my Top 8 Modern Classic last month in the Official Primer. Two more of my 5-0 Trash Dragon builds are linked below. (ALSO: Dragonstar and Lordryan and DevinRyan and Fluffywolf and Stickballruss have gotten 5-0s with Sarkhan heavy lists. That's just online - plenty of winning cardboard in paper play as well.) https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/raystack-5-0-decklist-by-raystack-758980 https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/deck-decklist-by-raystack-5-0-755275
Alright - So what? Pretty sure the campfire is caught up on all of this so far. The Stock List, with an enthusiastic endorsement for Chainwhirler/Ballista [4 total cards], is doing damage. So has been the Sarkhan/Avaricious Dragon.
Advantages/Disadvantages --- Pretty apparent: Stock sometimes falls behind and Trash sometimes doesn't have enough answers due to its high count of acceleration/dig spells.
Answer? Well, Maybe Sammy Hagar said it best.
BEST OF BOTH WORLDS - VAN HALEN
I want the best of both worlds
And honey I know what it's worth
If we could have the best of both worlds
We'd have heaven right here on earth!
Combine the Powers. Hit it. Just trim down the individual spell counts, and play 'em all in the (75):
Sarkhan, Fireblood - 1
Walking Ballista - 1
Avaricious Dragon - 1
Goblin Chainwhirler - 1
Hazoret the Fervent - 1
AND, keep those nitrous tanks racked up. Speed. Gotta find the threats and deploy them faster than the enemy can crack our locks:
Ritual Count - 10 (not 9)
Faithless Looting - 1 of course Sarkhan/Dragon dig as well
It's a little less explosive....and a little more consistent. A little heaven right here on earth?
With Sarkhan and Avaricious teamed up, and rubbish cards getting fired out all over creation, it's definitely still a Trash Dragons build. So, items of note:
Removal
Targeted Removal: 2 || Sweeper Removal: 1 || Utility: 1 Ballista. Now, this is a little light on the Stock List for Sweeper removal spells - just 1. Of course the (4) Bridges are the name of the game. And, now there is just a little more dig/rummage/loot to find them and other uppercut spells: 1 Avaricious || 1 Faithless || 1 Sarkhan. Thus, the numbers start to align.
X-For-1s
- In the sideboard, the king of X-for-1 is back: Pia and Kiran Nalaar. 3-for-1 and a bonus shock machine. A little slow, sure. But, excellent against Affinity/Jund/Grixis Death's Shadow/UW control/Humans and more.
- ALSO, Ratchet Bomb. It's so hard to pin down it's impact, but it's just one of those cards that's there when you need it - as long as it's not top decked
- And, finally, the NEGATIVE ONE-For-One: Faithless Looting. In game 1, our opponent is never more focused. We have got to toss the trash and find the gold. Card economy really doesn't matter if our winning card is undrawn. As for games 2/3 - sometimes, keep that Looting card in! There are some decks that still remain hyper vigilant in their win-con - so much so that we are still striving digging for the exact right answer cards, and not a developing lock/win-con. Examples are Tron/Ad Nauseam/KCI/Hardened Scales/Bogles/Storm.
FNM
I ran this last night at my FNM to a 2-2. Happens. Wins were against Storm and BridgeVengevine. Losses were to Burn and Humans. Humans....really!? Oh well, the losses were both 1-2 and variance is....well, variance. Highlight? Against BridgVengevine, I drop an Ensnaring Bridge as my only permanent in game 1. His army swells to an attacking force of 13 on the next turn, and I'm totally smoked unless I can dump my hand of 4 to 0. Salvation swooped in on the wings of Avariciousness. 4/4 - dumped hand to 0 at the end of my turn, and the win - since he couldn't find a walking ballista in time.
Played in the Modern PTQ Finals (not sure why they call it Finals) today on MTGO. In short the results are as follows:
Match 1: Jeskai 0-2
Match 2: GDS 2-0
Match 3: 8-Whack 2-0
Match 4: Tron 1-2
Match 5: UW Spirits 2-1
Match 6: Burn 2-0
Match 7: Mill 2-0
Match 8: KCI 2-0
Match 9: Humans 1-2
Overall: 6-3
The real short of it was Jeskai deck I got 0 lands, drew tons of lands game two.
GDS - Chalice on 1; Game 2: Didn't respect Blood Moon
8-Whack: Chalice on 1 (got a 'lol'); Game 2: Chalice on 1
Tron: Was a strange match. It involved my opponent mulling, and us duking it out with Walking Ballistas... The match eventually went to the 3rd game and a loss but this one was close.
UW Spirits: As you'd expect, one game I win from behind a bridge, another game they pump stuff out fast enough, and last game behind bridge.
Burn: Chalices do work both games, and in game two when I got chalice on 1 and 2 I then flood the board with rabblemasters.
Mill: Game 1 was close but Hazoret or Koth (can't remember) take this one. Game 2 is a no-content with chalices and appropriately being fast enough.
KCI: This was a Chalice on 1 game 1 with a rabblemaster right after. Game 2 was a Rabblemaster and Chalice on 0 (opponent did not play their Mox Opal) and results in a quick win with a Slagstorm to the face.
Humans: Game 1 was cake, game 2 lost after T1 blood moon and my opponent played (first) Noble, into Avacyn Pilgrim. Game 3 they took my bridge but I got it back, but not before taking a heft attack from Anazfenz the Foremost... It was a weird build to say the least.
And that is the wrap! I took 51st out of 354 people with a record of 6-3.
And that is the wrap! I took 51st out of 354 people with a record of 6-3.
Great work! I was recently introduced to your stream and I really enjoyed the videos, especially as a newcomer to the deck. I'm running this deck in the Canadian PPTQ's this season (essentially your list from your most recent youtube video), the first of which was yesterday. I managed a 3-1-1 9th place heartbreaker. I wanted to ask about the Tron matchup which I'm finding quite tricky. I followed the advice of this thread and my plan was -4 Ensnaring Bridge, -2 Anger, -2 Goblin Chainwhirler, +4 Eidolon, +2 Damping Matrix, +2 Sorcerous Spyglass. I had an early Damping matrix which shut off expedition map, and followed with sorcerous spyglass revealing wurmcoil engine, thragtusk, TKS (sigh...). I named Karn, but of course was subsequently trampled from here.
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on maybe going a different direction with the sideboard. Maybe keeping in bridges instead of going the eidolon route. If Eidolon is not early, it can just become dead weight once they start throwing haymakers. I imagine the common sideboard plan for them is to bring in TKS and Thragtusk in anticipation of Bridges coming out. By keeping bridge, it seems like you're forcing Karn and O-stone to be their paths to victory, and maybe we can handle that with spyglass and damping matrix (or sphere?). This is a more reactive plan, but in my minimal testing against tron, I've lost to thratusk wurmcoil beats.
Hello friends and fellow mountainfolk. I spent all day Friday and Saturday at GP Detroit right in my own backyard doing every single Modern side event available (6) I’m happy to announce I went 11-6 in games throughout my time there, which isn’t that great, but I went 3-0 in both of the double prize events I played in, good enough to reimburse me for my time there! At the event I played Tron 4 times out of my 17 rounds (24%, but I think across the side events it was closer to 40%), and I won two and lost two.
Quote from mrjayngles » url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/663335-pyro-prison-goblinized-mono-red-control-the?comment=3055 »
I wanted to ask about the Tron matchup which I'm finding quite tricky. I followed the advice of this thread and my plan was -4 Ensnaring Bridge, -2 Anger, -2 Goblin Chainwhirler, +4 Eidolon, +2 Damping Matrix, +2 Sorcerous Spyglass...
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on maybe going a different direction with the sideboard.
All four games I lost game 1, whether it be, as Russ says, “mulling to 5 and not even knowing it” due to keeping a bridge heavy hand, or just not being able to close out the game before Ugin or O-stone came down. One of the games he got down thragtusk but I abraded in response to blocks and finished out the game from there, another game I abraded in response to blocks on a wurmcoil, and he still closed it out, keep in mind I had had two Eidolons that game and he took no damage from them all game. When I did beat them I had blood moon before turn 3, a way to stop O stone before turn 4, and a clock before they played a real card. My list for almost every event follows, I did buy 2 copies of Sarkhan at the event and for 1 event played the exact 75 Ray had as his “current list” for trash dragons a few days ago but Ill talk about that more in a sec:
I have 3 angers side but I never played Hollow One, Dredge, or BridgeVine. I did see them at the events and I brought them in for a lot of aggro matches like spirits humans and burn, so I didn’t change out, but there wasn’t a huge showing of any graveyard decks or any coco decks, so I didn’t add in grafdiggers either. Faerie Macabre was the only card I never brought in, but not knocking the card because I wouldn’t have brought in any other type of graveyard hate card. Uba Mask came in a few times (I played three different versions of control) but only stuck once, and it got quickly Cryptic bounced into a loss, I like the card a lot but sometimes it feels too late, and while boil has never quite done it for me I think it is better in this slot. I can’t remember all my matches, but Jund and U/W control still seem abysmal, humans and bogles make me smile because I can just kick back and stomp on them, Bant Spirits seems just as easy as humans, while U/W spirits seems a little more 55/45 us throughout the three games. The event I played trash dragons in I was impressed by how efficient Sarkhan is at getting rid of land drops 5+ and giving me impact cards, I even put him out turn 1 vs Elves and he got me to the torpor orb bridge lock. On the other hand I often found myself looking for removal I didn’t have, so I think Rays newest build might be better for me and I will be testing it soon. The trash dragons event was the event I played against Jund, and that was the only round I drew avaricious, I didn’t want to cast him though because discarding my hand meant giving his goyfs +2/+2, another thing to consider if Jund becomes big again. I saw a few people on Skred dragons and one guy on a pyro prison deck he adapted directly from free win red and nothing else, rabblemasters and abrades, it seems that he has grown to similar conclusions and inclusions as us, so I told him about our forum. Thank you all for reading this long post, any and all comments or questions are welcome.
@mrjayngles: Just recently wandered up the mountainside, and he cranks down a 3-1-1 finish - You asked about the best way to approach Tron - Specifically: G/x Tron with feature cards --- Karn, Ugin /// Thragtusk, Wurmcoil Engine, Thought-Knot Seer (in sideboard). You offer a next level theory: "Keep the Bridges In?"
Marvelous question. In the past I had the exact same thinking against U/W. Not this blue/white, but the old version. BEFORE Jace,TMS and BEFORE Teferi. Back then, the prevailing wisdom was to yank out all of the bridges and just go aggro/tool box for the win. Point of context first. We Hammered U/W Control back then. It was one of our best matchups. Option A) Finish 'em off with the Sideboard or Option B) Keep in a few bridges. I argued for option B, but nearly everyone went for option A. My logic was pretty simple. They can not win through a bridge. Period. They had Celestial Colonnade and Secure the Wastes and that was it.
The Danger: Going into the long game and facing bounced bridges off of Snapcaster/Cryptic Command. A real possibility. But, our sideboard was already really light for answers to U/W control since we already very favored to beat them. So, it wasn't too hard to shift just a bit to keep in 2-3 bridges.
Using that story as a reference, it just might be next level thinking to leave in a couple bridges against G/x Tron, MrJayngles. How many times do we see Wurmcoil Engine hit the board and swing the game, and we are without answers. (lesser extent Thragtusk)?
Like you said, we can lose to EITHER Karn/Ugin/O-Stone OR Wurmcoil Engine/Thragtusk/Thought-Knot Seer. Can we reliably trust in our speed to eliminate the creature threat? Obviously, it will depend on our sideboard. But, something to consider. Thx!
Speaking of sideboard constructions. Natehill - excellent report and analysis. In regards to Trash Dragons, you played my "Current List" in the Official Primer, and then made mention of my more recent list earlier on this page. The difference? Only 2 main deck cards, but the sideboard list very notably has no Eidolon of the Great Revel. Instead, Toolbox: Multiple Artifact Hoser Cards. That is possible in a shell with a ton of dig/loot/rummage? BUT, are we better off laying off the gas a little bit, in the interests of beefing up our spear count in the (15)? I'm going to vote for (4) Eidolon in the sideboard - thus the decklist a few posts earlier. But, I guess I'm just curious if most agree or have experiences otherwise.
Alllllrighty, Football kickoff in 1 hour. /arranges cards and inserts them into their box & fastens the bag closed as it heads into the closet until Monday. Signing off....
And that is the wrap! I took 51st out of 354 people with a record of 6-3.
Great work! I was recently introduced to your stream and I really enjoyed the videos, especially as a newcomer to the deck. I'm running this deck in the Canadian PPTQ's this season (essentially your list from your most recent youtube video), the first of which was yesterday. I managed a 3-1-1 9th place heartbreaker. I wanted to ask about the Tron matchup which I'm finding quite tricky. I followed the advice of this thread and my plan was -4 Ensnaring Bridge, -2 Anger, -2 Goblin Chainwhirler, +4 Eidolon, +2 Damping Matrix, +2 Sorcerous Spyglass. I had an early Damping matrix which shut off expedition map, and followed with sorcerous spyglass revealing wurmcoil engine, thragtusk, TKS (sigh...). I named Karn, but of course was subsequently trampled from here.
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on maybe going a different direction with the sideboard. Maybe keeping in bridges instead of going the eidolon route. If Eidolon is not early, it can just become dead weight once they start throwing haymakers. I imagine the common sideboard plan for them is to bring in TKS and Thragtusk in anticipation of Bridges coming out. By keeping bridge, it seems like you're forcing Karn and O-stone to be their paths to victory, and maybe we can handle that with spyglass and damping matrix (or sphere?). This is a more reactive plan, but in my minimal testing against tron, I've lost to thratusk wurmcoil beats.
Thanks again and great work!
Thanks for the words and glad you are enjoying the stream!
Ahh Tron. Honestly, our best plans here are Aggro, and beat them out before a Karn. As an example Blood Moon doesn't even shut this plan out due to the inevitability of simply drawing 7 lands. Although the plan is decent (Bridge in for these big haymakers) we will simply lose to Karn, Ugin, Ulamog, Worldbreaker. Because of all of these threats our Bridges will need to be multiples, and we're basically asking for Blood Moon, Bridge, Spyglass, and then hoping they never get to 10 mana and cast an Ulamog as that will just ruin our day. This is a very reactive strategy and not what Pyro Prison is about. Indeed a late Eidolon is not the greatest top deck, but a late bridge really is not doing anything either (let's keep in mind Walking Ballista is also played which simply just gets around our bridge).
The reason we bring these in is not to top deck them late. In an opener against Tron you are looking for an aggressive piece to deploy on T1/T2 with a Blood Moon. You will want to run your Blood Moon out actually to avoid things.
Note, Eidolon unfortunately takes a [card]Nature's Claim[card] frequently, which is also a card against Bridge and against Moon. Although giving them more targets for this card we don't necessairly want to simply be on this plan. Tron many forget cantrips frequently into their answers. An Eidolon down on T1 will normally net you approximately 6 dmg (Map + Attacks; Star + Ancient + Attack; Ancient + Sylvan Scrying + Attack) are examples. This 6 damage plus a rabble or even Blood Moon + Chandra puts them at a nice 14 life. Two activations with Chandra = 10 and we are within that "10 range" which is 2 emblem shots with Chandra, 2 Swings with Hazoret, or very close to 2 swings with Koth. Being behind a Bridge slows all these options down.
You also have Shattering Spree and Abrade. These can knock off O-stone but also can take out Wurmcoil preventing life gain to allow you to swing in the following turn. There are different lines such as they attack in you block with Eidolon and shoot your Eidolon so they do not get a 3/3 life link to defend an aggressive rabblemaster etc.
If we play passively, we need to guarantee Koth/Chandra Emblem to win, and that has to be quick.
Thanks Raystack and FluffyWolf for the thoughtful analysis. I can appreciate fully the aggro plan, which if deployed early has a chance to push through. I’m still a bit skeptical how often we would be able to win through all those creatures.
I took a similar line in my loss to tron in a way that’s close to what you describe. Opponent at 8, they are attacking with wurmcoil into Eidolon and rabble master. I shot down my eidolon after blockers hoping to drop Koth, swing through with rabblemaster and a 4/4 mountain. Instead they just follow up their attack with Thragtusk and the game is out of reach. If Eidolon is bridge that game plays out very different. I think it turns out to be one of those scenarios where both decks are hoping to draw the right part of their deck at the right time.
Of course I do have a very limited number of games under my belt...so I will stay on the aggro plan for now, but looking forward to some more testing!
On a side note, I'm getting the sense that this deck is quite well positioned at the moment. It seems that most non-vial decks have become pretty vulnerable to chalice since eldrazi tron has mostly disappeared and Colorless Eldrazi hasn't really filled it's share of the meta. Also the vial decks seem to be pretty well covered by Bridge and Anger of the gods.
Hi everyone, longtime lurker here. Been playing the deck since January - finally, I have to say, after following the archetype for over a year and loving it from the start. Reason I become active now is what I feel is the elephant in the room:
Now, I know BGx, expecially Jund, has always been a tough one (I got, like, a ten percent win-rate against it when running Prison), but what do you all think at this point? There are still many spoilers to come for this set, but I doubt actual answers in our colors will be a part of it. Might start transforming into that artifact-heavy variant with Mox Opal for the sake of Welding Jar...
I personally think it’s great, if the start playing this instead of abrupt decay then it will make chalice on 2 more viable, and it’s still two non-red colors so blood moon turn 1 stops it. That being said, chalice on 2 still dies to kholagans command and this new card could lead to more decks running basics... all in all I’m personally optimistic about it
New Goblin may be the sideboard card we were looking for vs tron. If we cannot finish off tron by land 6/7, they get back on their game and crush Pyro prison. But Goblin Ctratermaker can hit that Karn or Ugin that are looking to turn the tides. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Guilds of Ravnica/Goblin Cratermaker#online
Here in Massachusetts, there was an historical weapons museum, The Higgins Armory. It had a collection which rivaled that of any in the world. One of my favorite items was a 16th century-ish device called a "Shield Gun".
They had the original prototype (it was never thought to have actually been used in battle). It was a round shield - 2 feet in diameter - with a small pistol that was situated in the middle, within the shield, with its barrel protruding from the center of the shield. The user could defend against weapon blows while blasting hot lead. Best of both: Offense and Defense.
@Raystack, that sounds like one the most impractical devices I ever heard of. But the goblin looks good, not replacing Abrade I think, but giving us a needed additional answer to Tron (which I also own, but I guess it's good I got other options as well). Dunno whether Main or Sideboard; I came to like the 2 Sarkhan, Fireblood / 2 Avaricious Dragon split in the Main, and that is already occupying some space...
My thoughts on Assassin's Trophy, now that I had two days to also discuss it with others: I doubt it will replace any Kolaghan's Command in Jund, probably just some of the creature-only removal they sometimes still run and something else. Two pals of mine from my LGS also brew around a BUG shell now. Looks scary on paper, but we'll have to see.
I think this fella is gonna be our new champion. Because GC can take down artifacts/creatures & present a 2/2 body, I forecast that we will all be using at least 2 Goblin Cratermaker in the main deck, AND completely abandoning Abrade. Upon printing, I'll start testing the Stock List construction with synergies of Chainwhirler & Ballista, similar to how Russ has been running it. Cratermaker piles on for 'Damage stacks' will be in effect with Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Chainwhirler, Ballista, and Cratermaker bellyflops. Back to a more 'Fair' deck which resembles the mechanics of 'Jund' - king of the fair decks. Bonus: we'll be packing the -power lock suite- Chalice/Bridge/Moon. Biiiiiig Boulders Raining Down Soon: Cratermaker! If only the name wasn't so damned....lame.
A playtest buddy and I were jibber-jabbering about the Cratermaker, and he said, "he is better than abrade for you in the main. For one more mana you get to kill all artifacts still AND you can blow up ugin and karn type things AND he can attack AND he adds to the goblin sub-theme you have going on with rabbles for the tradeoff of not being able to kill a mantis rider (since he only jams 2 damage). Aside from that one card, few creatures are toughness 3 such that it really that matters, is there?
Goblin Cratermaker is kind of red's version of qasali pridemage. Almost like it has three modes not two".
I'm loving the idea of adding Cratermaker. The more I think about it the more I like it. I would not be too quick to cut Abrade if Storm was still a thing, but I think we can get away with this guy in this meta. The applications against Tron are enough to expect 2 or 3 in the main for sure. The only thing that remains to be seen (besides the 1 less damage), is how relevant is the 1 extra mana? T2 or even T1 Abrade is crucial sometimes. Even if he doesnt full-on replace Abrade, he's definitely a Tron killer.. with him out, it's impossible to lose to Karn, they need 8 mana to O-Stone and he breaks Wurmcoil in half into Whirler-blockable pieces. Seems reasonable!
Trash Dragons just got published again, and it was NOT printed on recycled paper. I used the same list in the Official Primer - pyro prison - under "my current deck". It's also the top post of this page. Oh, there is 1 difference: I swapped one mountain for one Zhalfirin Void. I liked ZV a lot when it worked, but fear for the game that I goo myself for not having enough red land sources. Deck hums along - wouldn't make any changes at this time.
ROUND SPOTLIGHT:
Trash Dragons 'over the top' approach of turbo acceleration showcased itself nicely against Bridge-Vengevine in round 4. Noteworthy MVPs - Sarkhan, Fireblood // Faithless Looting
Turn 1: Land, SSG, SSG = Sarkhan, Fireblood - go to 4 loyalty by pitching Gemstone Cavern, and keeping Ramunap/Anger/Bridge (NOTE: the nuts are already hand, but Sarkhan will guide the win)
Turn 2: Draw Faithless Looting & rummage it away for a drawn Gemstone Cavern. Play ramunap ruins.
Turn 3: He has comboed into Bridges into Vengevine // I rummage into a Slagstorm, but play out the E. Bridge (2 sweepers in hand)
Turn 4: I draw/rummage into another bridge, cast a sweeper.
Turn 5: Chandra, ToD - she drives home the win.
The opponent never had even the slightest chance at a win. Sarkhan was pure gold on Turn 1 - drawing me into a perfect hand, AND keeping my hand low for the bridges. Consider that even if he died, and I started to stagnate, there was a faithless looting in the graveyard to provide a free 2-card loot. OR, consider that Sarkhan was not drawn, BUT the Faithless Looting was drawn: perfectly fine. I have very specific answer cards that must be located and I also need to keep dropping my hand size.
Yep we are certainly experimenting with it. UW Miracles needs to draw their cards to miracle, and also usually attempts to gain advantages. You can actually get through their counter magic when the rest of it sits in exile from draws. Aether Vial and Uba mask also do not get along, as cards never make it to their hand. Blood Moon + Uba Mask against say Humans can do odd things, as it can also against Wx taxes lists. It is still in experimentation phase but it does some strange things for sure and can have very nice effects on the game.
Gotta say - pretty much nope. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker did run a few laps out on the track, but never quite made the cut. (Although - there was this one time at an FNM in Boston when I slammed a T1 Sarkhan - opponent scooped 2 turns later - there's a pic of my playmat/board in a tourney reporta couple years ago) And, THEN a few months ago - Sarkhan, Fireblood strutted onto the stage. It was like a late 90s grunge video suddenly flickered onto our screen. Huh. Can this former frontman from Seattle shred?
What did we find? Ummm...overall positive. Not unlike Eidolon the Great Revel, it seemed like it was 'lean hard into a high count or ignore this dude altogether'. But, not everybody bought in for his usage, and doubts definitely continue to linger. Most notably, Stickballruss is crushing it with his version of Pyro Prison. >>> Russ, I tried to find a link to your recent 'no-sarkhan' decklist (2 Goblin Rabblemaster / 2 Ballista / 1 Hazoret), but you haven't seemed to have posted it here -- please share when you get a chance.
So, the Stock List is definitely representing, and there have also been high profile finishes for Trash Dragons. You can see my Top 8 Modern Classic last month in the Official Primer. Two more of my 5-0 Trash Dragon builds are linked below. (ALSO: Dragonstar and Lordryan and DevinRyan and Fluffywolf and Stickballruss have gotten 5-0s with Sarkhan heavy lists. That's just online - plenty of winning cardboard in paper play as well.)
https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/raystack-5-0-decklist-by-raystack-758980
https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/deck-decklist-by-raystack-5-0-755275
Alright - So what? Pretty sure the campfire is caught up on all of this so far. The Stock List, with an enthusiastic endorsement for Chainwhirler/Ballista [4 total cards], is doing damage. So has been the Sarkhan/Avaricious Dragon.
Advantages/Disadvantages --- Pretty apparent: Stock sometimes falls behind and Trash sometimes doesn't have enough answers due to its high count of acceleration/dig spells.
Answer? Well, Maybe Sammy Hagar said it best.
I want the best of both worlds
And honey I know what it's worth
If we could have the best of both worlds
We'd have heaven right here on earth!
Combine the Powers. Hit it. Just trim down the individual spell counts, and play 'em all in the (75):
Sarkhan, Fireblood - 1
Walking Ballista - 1
Avaricious Dragon - 1
Goblin Chainwhirler - 1
Hazoret the Fervent - 1
AND, keep those nitrous tanks racked up. Speed. Gotta find the threats and deploy them faster than the enemy can crack our locks:
Ritual Count - 10 (not 9)
Faithless Looting - 1
of course Sarkhan/Dragon dig as well
It's a little less explosive....and a little more consistent. A little heaven right here on earth?
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (7)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Avaricious Dragon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Walking Ballista
Planeswalkers (6)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Sarkhan, Fireblood
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Abrade
1 Slagstorm
Accelerators (11)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Pyretic Ritual
1 Faithless Looting
3 (+) Gemstone Caverns
Lands (21)
15 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Ramunap Ruins
1 Mutavault
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Damping Matrix
1 Torpor Orb
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Shattering Spree
1 Goblin Chainwhirler
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
With Sarkhan and Avaricious teamed up, and rubbish cards getting fired out all over creation, it's definitely still a Trash Dragons build. So, items of note:
Removal
Targeted Removal: 2 || Sweeper Removal: 1 || Utility: 1 Ballista. Now, this is a little light on the Stock List for Sweeper removal spells - just 1. Of course the (4) Bridges are the name of the game. And, now there is just a little more dig/rummage/loot to find them and other uppercut spells: 1 Avaricious || 1 Faithless || 1 Sarkhan. Thus, the numbers start to align.
X-For-1s
- In the sideboard, the king of X-for-1 is back: Pia and Kiran Nalaar. 3-for-1 and a bonus shock machine. A little slow, sure. But, excellent against Affinity/Jund/Grixis Death's Shadow/UW control/Humans and more.
- ALSO, Ratchet Bomb. It's so hard to pin down it's impact, but it's just one of those cards that's there when you need it - as long as it's not top decked
- And, finally, the NEGATIVE ONE-For-One: Faithless Looting. In game 1, our opponent is never more focused. We have got to toss the trash and find the gold. Card economy really doesn't matter if our winning card is undrawn. As for games 2/3 - sometimes, keep that Looting card in! There are some decks that still remain hyper vigilant in their win-con - so much so that we are still striving digging for the exact right answer cards, and not a developing lock/win-con. Examples are Tron/Ad Nauseam/KCI/Hardened Scales/Bogles/Storm.
FNM
I ran this last night at my FNM to a 2-2. Happens. Wins were against Storm and BridgeVengevine. Losses were to Burn and Humans. Humans....really!? Oh well, the losses were both 1-2 and variance is....well, variance. Highlight? Against BridgVengevine, I drop an Ensnaring Bridge as my only permanent in game 1. His army swells to an attacking force of 13 on the next turn, and I'm totally smoked unless I can dump my hand of 4 to 0. Salvation swooped in on the wings of Avariciousness. 4/4 - dumped hand to 0 at the end of my turn, and the win - since he couldn't find a walking ballista in time.
Match 1: Jeskai 0-2
Match 2: GDS 2-0
Match 3: 8-Whack 2-0
Match 4: Tron 1-2
Match 5: UW Spirits 2-1
Match 6: Burn 2-0
Match 7: Mill 2-0
Match 8: KCI 2-0
Match 9: Humans 1-2
Overall: 6-3
The real short of it was Jeskai deck I got 0 lands, drew tons of lands game two.
GDS - Chalice on 1; Game 2: Didn't respect Blood Moon
8-Whack: Chalice on 1 (got a 'lol'); Game 2: Chalice on 1
Tron: Was a strange match. It involved my opponent mulling, and us duking it out with Walking Ballistas... The match eventually went to the 3rd game and a loss but this one was close.
UW Spirits: As you'd expect, one game I win from behind a bridge, another game they pump stuff out fast enough, and last game behind bridge.
Burn: Chalices do work both games, and in game two when I got chalice on 1 and 2 I then flood the board with rabblemasters.
Mill: Game 1 was close but Hazoret or Koth (can't remember) take this one. Game 2 is a no-content with chalices and appropriately being fast enough.
KCI: This was a Chalice on 1 game 1 with a rabblemaster right after. Game 2 was a Rabblemaster and Chalice on 0 (opponent did not play their Mox Opal) and results in a quick win with a Slagstorm to the face.
Humans: Game 1 was cake, game 2 lost after T1 blood moon and my opponent played (first) Noble, into Avacyn Pilgrim. Game 3 they took my bridge but I got it back, but not before taking a heft attack from Anazfenz the Foremost... It was a weird build to say the least.
And that is the wrap! I took 51st out of 354 people with a record of 6-3.
Great work! I was recently introduced to your stream and I really enjoyed the videos, especially as a newcomer to the deck. I'm running this deck in the Canadian PPTQ's this season (essentially your list from your most recent youtube video), the first of which was yesterday. I managed a 3-1-1 9th place heartbreaker. I wanted to ask about the Tron matchup which I'm finding quite tricky. I followed the advice of this thread and my plan was -4 Ensnaring Bridge, -2 Anger, -2 Goblin Chainwhirler, +4 Eidolon, +2 Damping Matrix, +2 Sorcerous Spyglass. I had an early Damping matrix which shut off expedition map, and followed with sorcerous spyglass revealing wurmcoil engine, thragtusk, TKS (sigh...). I named Karn, but of course was subsequently trampled from here.
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on maybe going a different direction with the sideboard. Maybe keeping in bridges instead of going the eidolon route. If Eidolon is not early, it can just become dead weight once they start throwing haymakers. I imagine the common sideboard plan for them is to bring in TKS and Thragtusk in anticipation of Bridges coming out. By keeping bridge, it seems like you're forcing Karn and O-stone to be their paths to victory, and maybe we can handle that with spyglass and damping matrix (or sphere?). This is a more reactive plan, but in my minimal testing against tron, I've lost to thratusk wurmcoil beats.
Thanks again and great work!
All four games I lost game 1, whether it be, as Russ says, “mulling to 5 and not even knowing it” due to keeping a bridge heavy hand, or just not being able to close out the game before Ugin or O-stone came down. One of the games he got down thragtusk but I abraded in response to blocks and finished out the game from there, another game I abraded in response to blocks on a wurmcoil, and he still closed it out, keep in mind I had had two Eidolons that game and he took no damage from them all game. When I did beat them I had blood moon before turn 3, a way to stop O stone before turn 4, and a clock before they played a real card. My list for almost every event follows, I did buy 2 copies of Sarkhan at the event and for 1 event played the exact 75 Ray had as his “current list” for trash dragons a few days ago but Ill talk about that more in a sec:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Blood Moon
4x Ensnaring Bridge
Planeswalkers
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Koth of the Hammer
Creatures
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Goblin Chainwhirler
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Hazoret the Fervent
1x Walking Ballista
2x Slagstorm
3x Abrade
Acceleration
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Simian Spirit Guide
Lands
13x Mountain
3x Ranunap Ruins
3x Gemstone Caverns
1x Mutavault
1x Scavenger Grounds
3x Eidolon of the Great Revel
3x Anger of the Gods
1x Damping Matrix
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Spellskite
1x Torpor Orb
1x Shattering Spree
2x Uba Mask
2x Faerie Macabre
I have 3 angers side but I never played Hollow One, Dredge, or BridgeVine. I did see them at the events and I brought them in for a lot of aggro matches like spirits humans and burn, so I didn’t change out, but there wasn’t a huge showing of any graveyard decks or any coco decks, so I didn’t add in grafdiggers either. Faerie Macabre was the only card I never brought in, but not knocking the card because I wouldn’t have brought in any other type of graveyard hate card. Uba Mask came in a few times (I played three different versions of control) but only stuck once, and it got quickly Cryptic bounced into a loss, I like the card a lot but sometimes it feels too late, and while boil has never quite done it for me I think it is better in this slot. I can’t remember all my matches, but Jund and U/W control still seem abysmal, humans and bogles make me smile because I can just kick back and stomp on them, Bant Spirits seems just as easy as humans, while U/W spirits seems a little more 55/45 us throughout the three games. The event I played trash dragons in I was impressed by how efficient Sarkhan is at getting rid of land drops 5+ and giving me impact cards, I even put him out turn 1 vs Elves and he got me to the torpor orb bridge lock. On the other hand I often found myself looking for removal I didn’t have, so I think Rays newest build might be better for me and I will be testing it soon. The trash dragons event was the event I played against Jund, and that was the only round I drew avaricious, I didn’t want to cast him though because discarding my hand meant giving his goyfs +2/+2, another thing to consider if Jund becomes big again. I saw a few people on Skred dragons and one guy on a pyro prison deck he adapted directly from free win red and nothing else, rabblemasters and abrades, it seems that he has grown to similar conclusions and inclusions as us, so I told him about our forum. Thank you all for reading this long post, any and all comments or questions are welcome.
Marvelous question. In the past I had the exact same thinking against U/W. Not this blue/white, but the old version. BEFORE Jace,TMS and BEFORE Teferi. Back then, the prevailing wisdom was to yank out all of the bridges and just go aggro/tool box for the win. Point of context first. We Hammered U/W Control back then. It was one of our best matchups. Option A) Finish 'em off with the Sideboard or Option B) Keep in a few bridges. I argued for option B, but nearly everyone went for option A. My logic was pretty simple. They can not win through a bridge. Period. They had Celestial Colonnade and Secure the Wastes and that was it.
The Danger: Going into the long game and facing bounced bridges off of Snapcaster/Cryptic Command. A real possibility. But, our sideboard was already really light for answers to U/W control since we already very favored to beat them. So, it wasn't too hard to shift just a bit to keep in 2-3 bridges.
Using that story as a reference, it just might be next level thinking to leave in a couple bridges against G/x Tron, MrJayngles. How many times do we see Wurmcoil Engine hit the board and swing the game, and we are without answers. (lesser extent Thragtusk)?
Like you said, we can lose to EITHER Karn/Ugin/O-Stone OR Wurmcoil Engine/Thragtusk/Thought-Knot Seer. Can we reliably trust in our speed to eliminate the creature threat? Obviously, it will depend on our sideboard. But, something to consider. Thx!
Speaking of sideboard constructions. Natehill - excellent report and analysis. In regards to Trash Dragons, you played my "Current List" in the Official Primer, and then made mention of my more recent list earlier on this page. The difference? Only 2 main deck cards, but the sideboard list very notably has no Eidolon of the Great Revel. Instead, Toolbox: Multiple Artifact Hoser Cards. That is possible in a shell with a ton of dig/loot/rummage? BUT, are we better off laying off the gas a little bit, in the interests of beefing up our spear count in the (15)? I'm going to vote for (4) Eidolon in the sideboard - thus the decklist a few posts earlier. But, I guess I'm just curious if most agree or have experiences otherwise.
Alllllrighty, Football kickoff in 1 hour. /arranges cards and inserts them into their box & fastens the bag closed as it heads into the closet until Monday. Signing off....
Thanks for the words and glad you are enjoying the stream!
Ahh Tron. Honestly, our best plans here are Aggro, and beat them out before a Karn. As an example Blood Moon doesn't even shut this plan out due to the inevitability of simply drawing 7 lands. Although the plan is decent (Bridge in for these big haymakers) we will simply lose to Karn, Ugin, Ulamog, Worldbreaker. Because of all of these threats our Bridges will need to be multiples, and we're basically asking for Blood Moon, Bridge, Spyglass, and then hoping they never get to 10 mana and cast an Ulamog as that will just ruin our day. This is a very reactive strategy and not what Pyro Prison is about. Indeed a late Eidolon is not the greatest top deck, but a late bridge really is not doing anything either (let's keep in mind Walking Ballista is also played which simply just gets around our bridge).
The reason we bring these in is not to top deck them late. In an opener against Tron you are looking for an aggressive piece to deploy on T1/T2 with a Blood Moon. You will want to run your Blood Moon out actually to avoid things.
Note, Eidolon unfortunately takes a [card]Nature's Claim[card] frequently, which is also a card against Bridge and against Moon. Although giving them more targets for this card we don't necessairly want to simply be on this plan. Tron many forget cantrips frequently into their answers. An Eidolon down on T1 will normally net you approximately 6 dmg (Map + Attacks; Star + Ancient + Attack; Ancient + Sylvan Scrying + Attack) are examples. This 6 damage plus a rabble or even Blood Moon + Chandra puts them at a nice 14 life. Two activations with Chandra = 10 and we are within that "10 range" which is 2 emblem shots with Chandra, 2 Swings with Hazoret, or very close to 2 swings with Koth. Being behind a Bridge slows all these options down.
You also have Shattering Spree and Abrade. These can knock off O-stone but also can take out Wurmcoil preventing life gain to allow you to swing in the following turn. There are different lines such as they attack in you block with Eidolon and shoot your Eidolon so they do not get a 3/3 life link to defend an aggressive rabblemaster etc.
If we play passively, we need to guarantee Koth/Chandra Emblem to win, and that has to be quick.
I took a similar line in my loss to tron in a way that’s close to what you describe. Opponent at 8, they are attacking with wurmcoil into Eidolon and rabble master. I shot down my eidolon after blockers hoping to drop Koth, swing through with rabblemaster and a 4/4 mountain. Instead they just follow up their attack with Thragtusk and the game is out of reach. If Eidolon is bridge that game plays out very different. I think it turns out to be one of those scenarios where both decks are hoping to draw the right part of their deck at the right time.
Of course I do have a very limited number of games under my belt...so I will stay on the aggro plan for now, but looking forward to some more testing!
1 Avaricious Dragon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Plansewalkers:
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Sarkhan, Fireblood
Instant/Sorcery:
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Abrade
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Pyretic Ritual
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
Enchantments:
4 Blood Moon
Lands:
3 Gemstone Caverns
10 Mountain
4 Ramunap Ruins
4 Zhalfirin Void
1 Abrade
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Damping Matrix
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Goblin Chainwhirler
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Torpor Orb
1 Witchbane Orb
On a side note, I'm getting the sense that this deck is quite well positioned at the moment. It seems that most non-vial decks have become pretty vulnerable to chalice since eldrazi tron has mostly disappeared and Colorless Eldrazi hasn't really filled it's share of the meta. Also the vial decks seem to be pretty well covered by Bridge and Anger of the gods.
Assassin's Trophy
Now, I know BGx, expecially Jund, has always been a tough one (I got, like, a ten percent win-rate against it when running Prison), but what do you all think at this point? There are still many spoilers to come for this set, but I doubt actual answers in our colors will be a part of it. Might start transforming into that artifact-heavy variant with Mox Opal for the sake of Welding Jar...
They had the original prototype (it was never thought to have actually been used in battle). It was a round shield - 2 feet in diameter - with a small pistol that was situated in the middle, within the shield, with its barrel protruding from the center of the shield. The user could defend against weapon blows while blasting hot lead. Best of both: Offense and Defense.
I think Goblin Cratermaker is our new "Shield Gun"
My thoughts on Assassin's Trophy, now that I had two days to also discuss it with others: I doubt it will replace any Kolaghan's Command in Jund, probably just some of the creature-only removal they sometimes still run and something else. Two pals of mine from my LGS also brew around a BUG shell now. Looks scary on paper, but we'll have to see.
Goblin Cratermaker
I think this fella is gonna be our new champion. Because GC can take down artifacts/creatures & present a 2/2 body, I forecast that we will all be using at least 2 Goblin Cratermaker in the main deck, AND completely abandoning Abrade. Upon printing, I'll start testing the Stock List construction with synergies of Chainwhirler & Ballista, similar to how Russ has been running it. Cratermaker piles on for 'Damage stacks' will be in effect with Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Chainwhirler, Ballista, and Cratermaker bellyflops. Back to a more 'Fair' deck which resembles the mechanics of 'Jund' - king of the fair decks. Bonus: we'll be packing the -power lock suite- Chalice/Bridge/Moon. Biiiiiig Boulders Raining Down Soon: Cratermaker! If only the name wasn't so damned....lame.
A playtest buddy and I were jibber-jabbering about the Cratermaker, and he said, "he is better than abrade for you in the main. For one more mana you get to kill all artifacts still AND you can blow up ugin and karn type things AND he can attack AND he adds to the goblin sub-theme you have going on with rabbles for the tradeoff of not being able to kill a mantis rider (since he only jams 2 damage). Aside from that one card, few creatures are toughness 3 such that it really that matters, is there?
Goblin Cratermaker is kind of red's version of qasali pridemage. Almost like it has three modes not two".
Huh - smart fella - good observations.
Trash Dragons just got published again, and it was NOT printed on recycled paper. I used the same list in the Official Primer - pyro prison - under "my current deck". It's also the top post of this page. Oh, there is 1 difference: I swapped one mountain for one Zhalfirin Void. I liked ZV a lot when it worked, but fear for the game that I goo myself for not having enough red land sources. Deck hums along - wouldn't make any changes at this time.
Wins were 1) Bogles 2) Storm 3) Cheerios 4) Bridgevine 5) Burn
ROUND SPOTLIGHT:
Trash Dragons 'over the top' approach of turbo acceleration showcased itself nicely against Bridge-Vengevine in round 4. Noteworthy MVPs - Sarkhan, Fireblood // Faithless Looting
Turn 1: Land, SSG, SSG = Sarkhan, Fireblood - go to 4 loyalty by pitching Gemstone Cavern, and keeping Ramunap/Anger/Bridge (NOTE: the nuts are already hand, but Sarkhan will guide the win)
Turn 2: Draw Faithless Looting & rummage it away for a drawn Gemstone Cavern. Play ramunap ruins.
Turn 3: He has comboed into Bridges into Vengevine // I rummage into a Slagstorm, but play out the E. Bridge (2 sweepers in hand)
Turn 4: I draw/rummage into another bridge, cast a sweeper.
Turn 5: Chandra, ToD - she drives home the win.
The opponent never had even the slightest chance at a win. Sarkhan was pure gold on Turn 1 - drawing me into a perfect hand, AND keeping my hand low for the bridges. Consider that even if he died, and I started to stagnate, there was a faithless looting in the graveyard to provide a free 2-card loot. OR, consider that Sarkhan was not drawn, BUT the Faithless Looting was drawn: perfectly fine. I have very specific answer cards that must be located and I also need to keep dropping my hand size.