Running 2 specific cards over 2 cards that actually fit your deck's overall game plan just because one deck in the metagame runs 2 copies of a card that the latter doesn't hit seems wildly disproportionate to me, especially with all the KCI running around right now. Last thing I want to do in a control shell is have to main phase Snap Thoughtseize just to keep up and then cross my fingers that they don't topdeck the antichrist anyway.
Running 2 specific cards over 2 cards that actually fit your deck's overall game plan just because one deck in the metagame runs 2 copies of a card that the latter doesn't hit seems wildly disproportionate to me, especially with all the KCI running around right now. Last thing I want to do in a control shell is have to main phase Snap Thoughtseize just to keep up and then cross my fingers that they don't topdeck the antichrist anyway.
it wasn't tom that replied you the first time around; i believe thoughtseize isn't there JUST for tron, its clearly boarded for combo as well. ceremonious rejection was awesome when it dealt with the troublesome trinity of tron, affinity and eldrazi. With the latter 2 seemingly taking a break, dedicating 2 slots for exclusively tron spells seems a bit much.
The value of 2 thoughtseizes in the side can be debated, I don't think its a given, but its not a bad choice, either. Combo will always be around in some form; seizing a goryo's vengeance on turn 1 might save you that game; also surgicalling it will probably win it, since TTB is 5 mana and easy to guard against.
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I am not arguing that thoughtseize fits the deck, as i dont play it. I was just trying to give you a reason. If the meta were all-tron i'd defenitively run all four thoughtseize in the mainboard, as they usually go for a few worldbreakers in control heavy metas, and also tron is not that threat dense.
Also bare in mind that thoughtseize does hit kci as well as any other combo deck.
(...) dedicating 2 slots for exclusively tron spells seems a bit much.
KCI is arguably the best deck in Modern right now, no idea why you'd want to glance over that.
Well if i HAD to give you a reason; at my LGS if you consistently bring games to turns your deck is barred simply because it will discourage people from coming. So no, its not a deck that features at the forefront of my mind, and it doesn't apparently feature in yours either because it took 3 responses for you to bring it up. Do you face it a lot?
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(...) dedicating 2 slots for exclusively tron spells seems a bit much.
KCI is arguably the best deck in Modern right now, no idea why you'd want to glance over that.
Well if i HAD to give you a reason; at my LGS if you consistently bring games to turns your deck is barred simply because it will discourage people from coming. So no, its not a deck that features at the forefront of my mind, and it doesn't apparently feature in yours either because it took 3 responses for you to bring it up. Do you face it a lot?
I brought it up in my second reply on this topic, and the reason I didn't bring it up immediately is because the deck is such a major player right now that I thought it to be self-evident that KCI must be accounted for in your game plan. If your argument for playing Thoughtseize in a control shell is that globally dominant decks are discouraged at your local game store, fair enough, but then what's the point in discussing your locally-tweaked list in the first place?
Also bare in mind that thoughtseize does hit kci as well as any other combo deck.
It certainly does, but tapping out in your main phase is not something you want to do against combo decks. You want to disrupt them (especially KCI) on their turn, by interacting with the stack.
Its less of "I think the world meta is my meta" and more of "I'm discussing this topic through the lens of my Magic experience". So if I play 50 games a week and none of my pairings are against KCI, its not something that features at the forefront of my mind during discussion. Which is what I said.
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Sure, but if we're going to be pedantic about it, you also said "With the latter 2 seemingly taking a break, dedicating 2 slots for exclusively tron spells seems a bit much". If you're speaking for yourself then I'm sure you're right, but if you throw it out there in a thread with people from all over the world you simply have to account for the global metagame - in which case I think your statement is wrong.
yea its pretty amazing isn't it? the internet lets us interact with countless players from across the globe, like you and me and right now. Your input reminded me of a wider meta.
Thanks!
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How do we feel about the KCI ban? I know in the past the deck has given me fits despite the hate I frequently brought for it. Does the narrowing of this ban allow us to focus more effectively on the resilient aggro that's trending right now? What are some of us looking to bring or not bring based on this banning?
I believe we were the best positioned control deck against kci due to counterspells + kolaghans, and that we didnt make any costy commitment in the sideboard to fight it. Ceremonious Rejection and Disdainful Stroke, as well as Surgical extraction were our main tools for the match and we already had enough good reasons to pack them with dredge, tron, hardened scales, storm and other friends. I played the same sideboard before the deck existed and never felt too dragged behind, and i do believe we have nothing to react to. As far as the deck is concerned. The decks that arise from the disappearance of kci are another beast. I am expecting Boggles back, so keep your Engineered Explosives close.
I recently checked out Gods_Shadow's recent list he played on his YouTube channel. He rocked a list with 3 Ionize and 2 Countersqualls main, which makes my control heart beat faster. I'm currently trying his list, including 1-2 Ral, Izzet Viceroy.
Howver, the landcount of 22 feels a bit odd. What's your guys' opinion on that? Has anyone rocked some percentages?
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Currently playing: Modern: Esper/Azorius Control UBW Pauper: UB Reanimator UB UR Control UR Pauper Commander: Stormchaser Mage UR Sedraxis Specter UBR Nightveil Predator UB Artisan of Kozilek C
I think its not so much that bolas sucks, as much as their teferis are ridiculously good. That casting cost isn't so scary if you run a couple of filter lands.
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What are you guys talking about? This Bolas ROCKS! Comes in at a reasonable casting cost, protects himself, draws cards while discarding opponent cards (or even exiling permanents if they don't have cards) and his ultimate says "win the game". Also, Play him alongside Jace, 2 brainstorms in 1 turn.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger sends his regards.
UBRGrixis ShadowUBR
UBRGrixis DelverUBR
RGDredgeRG
Running 2 specific cards over 2 cards that actually fit your deck's overall game plan just because one deck in the metagame runs 2 copies of a card that the latter doesn't hit seems wildly disproportionate to me, especially with all the KCI running around right now. Last thing I want to do in a control shell is have to main phase Snap Thoughtseize just to keep up and then cross my fingers that they don't topdeck the antichrist anyway.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
it wasn't tom that replied you the first time around; i believe thoughtseize isn't there JUST for tron, its clearly boarded for combo as well. ceremonious rejection was awesome when it dealt with the troublesome trinity of tron, affinity and eldrazi. With the latter 2 seemingly taking a break, dedicating 2 slots for exclusively tron spells seems a bit much.
The value of 2 thoughtseizes in the side can be debated, I don't think its a given, but its not a bad choice, either. Combo will always be around in some form; seizing a goryo's vengeance on turn 1 might save you that game; also surgicalling it will probably win it, since TTB is 5 mana and easy to guard against.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
KCI is arguably the best deck in Modern right now, no idea why you'd want to glance over that.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Also bare in mind that thoughtseize does hit kci as well as any other combo deck.
UBRGrixis ShadowUBR
UBRGrixis DelverUBR
RGDredgeRG
Well if i HAD to give you a reason; at my LGS if you consistently bring games to turns your deck is barred simply because it will discourage people from coming. So no, its not a deck that features at the forefront of my mind, and it doesn't apparently feature in yours either because it took 3 responses for you to bring it up. Do you face it a lot?
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
I brought it up in my second reply on this topic, and the reason I didn't bring it up immediately is because the deck is such a major player right now that I thought it to be self-evident that KCI must be accounted for in your game plan. If your argument for playing Thoughtseize in a control shell is that globally dominant decks are discouraged at your local game store, fair enough, but then what's the point in discussing your locally-tweaked list in the first place?
It certainly does, but tapping out in your main phase is not something you want to do against combo decks. You want to disrupt them (especially KCI) on their turn, by interacting with the stack.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
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Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Thanks!
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"Reveal a Dragon"
UBRGrixis ShadowUBR
UBRGrixis DelverUBR
RGDredgeRG
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Liliana's Defeat caught my attention. Oh that is pretty spicy hate. Expecting lots of Jund/Junk, are we?
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Howver, the landcount of 22 feels a bit odd. What's your guys' opinion on that? Has anyone rocked some percentages?
Modern: Esper/Azorius Control UBW
Pauper: UB Reanimator UB UR Control UR
Pauper Commander: Stormchaser Mage UR Sedraxis Specter UBR Nightveil Predator UB Artisan of Kozilek C
Especially compared to the 3cmc Teferi (bottom center): https://i.redd.it/blymvh153ip21.jpg
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UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past