Fulminator Mage is definitly worth it over Molten Rain if you have the money.
i want to question your land count. 21 on only 4 cantrips seems way too little. i run 23 lands and 8 cantrips for comparison, and i wouldn't run any less. and my curve is lower than yourson top of that. i would go to 22-24 with your build.
Ionize is an ok spell, but i'd look to upgrade it to another cryptic and something else.
P&K, Kalitas or Explosives is very much a meta-dependant decision.
I replaced P&K with another Vendilion Clique and the Nimble Obstructionist in the SB with a second Kalitas last week.
For the rest, basically relacing one Ionize with a Cryptic and maybe the other with a 4th Basic Island?
Notes:
No Field of Ruins, I'm just trying to beat Tron and other Land decks with discard. It's not the best plan, but we are unfavored against them anyways, and I'd rather have the consistent mana. We don't have the luxury of 2 color like UW does. I'd rather just try and fight with discard and card advantage rather than blow up their lands. Pithing Needle helps with walkers like Karn or even in other match ups, like Liliana.
No Damnation. I just think the card is bad and Engineered Explosives and Languish are just better options. Honestly might go up to 2 EEsin the 75, the card is just amazing especially in this meta.
Thief of Sanity comes in vs grindy match ups. The idea is that we are thinning the delve creatures post board alongside a thought scour or two. Thief is a pretty huge threat when it comes to virtual card advantage, and creates a situation where they need to use a removal spell or they lose. Most likely they will be siding out some removal like against Jund, and UW will be forced to use Path to Exile, which could benefit us with the ramp, and decrease their odds to draw it alter for our real threats like Nicol Bolas
Hey everyone! Long time lurker, first time posting. Just got back from GP Portland where I placed 32nd with grixis control. Overall went 11-2-2 which I am happy with given it was my first GP. I made a couple of mistakes that could have swung another match or two my way. I used to play a more Burkhart-style list but have been on a Gods_Shadow version of the deck for a while now. I think Burkhart's version gets hit harder by all of the graveyard hate floating around and I value the hand disruption in this build. Here was the list I ran this weekend:
A few tweaks I made from what Gods_Shadow has been running: Main deck Kalitas: With the rise in UR Phoenix I thought the number of decks I sided in Kalitas had reached the point where I wanted one main. I was very pleased with the addition, as it was responsible for my G1 wins against both Hollow One and UR Phoenix.
Consume the Meek: The card is bonkers against Bant Spirits, which I expected to see in large numbers. Instant speed and avoids Spell Queller. The main risk is a CoCo in response finding Mausoleum Wanderer. I was happy with 2 in the side. I did not miss Damnation, although I think running 1 Anger of the Gods would be defensible as well.
Surgical/Extirpate split: I was very high on extirpate when I ran the Burkhart version of the deck. When Field of Ruin is your answer to Tron, it leaves you with the necessary Swamp to cast Extirpate which minimizes the 1-mana downside. Its ability to prevent fetchlands from returning Bloodghasts around Surgical Extraction is great, as is the ability to prevent Tron from protecting its graveyard with Relic. Now that I'm running Fulminators I changed to a 1/2 split. Still not sure if that's correct, but split second did come up against UR Phoenix when they tried to Dispel it.
Fatal Push: Gods_Shadow hasn't been running any fatal push lately, but with UR Phoenix becoming more popular my terminates were starting to feel stretched thin between TiTi, drake, and reveler out of that deck. Cut the 3rd JVP for it and the change felt good against the mix of decks I faced.
I didn't take any notes during the GP so I'll just make an abbreviated tournament report with the highlights I can remember
Round 1: BR Hollow One (W 2-1, overall 1-0)
A timely KCommand killing Hollow One + Flameblade Adept allowed me to land a Kalitas. After that G1 was basically GG. G2 a T1 burning inquiry destroyed my hand by leaving me with mismatched lands + spells and I was never able to recover. G3 I extracted his flamewakes and then rode a Kalitas for the win.
Round 2: Bant Spirits (L 1-2, overall 1-1)
G1 I was on the draw and they had a brutal start. T1 vial led to T3 Drogskol + Phantasmal Image. They played around any chance for Nimble to block and I never drew LoTV which was my only other main deck answer to multiple Drogkols. G2 I drew a ton of spot removal & hand disruption and was able to grind them out. G3 was my first big mistake - I kept way too slow of a starting 7, and they led wanderer into thalia and I wasn't able to catch up.
Round 3: Merfolk (W 2-1, overall 2-1)
I don't remember anything particularly out of the ordinary here. I got blown out by a Deprive G2. G3 I inquisitioned a silvergill and his hand ended up pretty anemic after that.
Round 4: UW Control (W 2-1, overall 3-1)
G1 I was able to strip their hand of threats while they stumbled on mana early. T2 inquisition into T3 Fall into T4 Snap->Fall. I ended up facing UWx Control 4 times this weekend and I was very happy to have as much hand disruption as I did. G2 they hit a T2 Azcanta to which I wasn't able to find a timely answer. G3 fulminator was an all-star. I was able to keep them at a 3+ land disadvantage starting ~turn 6 and they weren't able to land any big threats.
Round 5: Storm (W 2-0, overall 4-1)
G1 flashed in a T2 snap to get early pressure. A mix of TS/inquisition/Fall kept them from reaching a critical mass of spells. Never got close to storming off. G2 I kept baral/electromancer off the table which forced them to go for a small (~4 storm) empty the warrens. Staticaster backed up by countersquall sealed the match.
Round 6: G Tron (W 2-1, overall 5-1)
G1 got destroyed by T3 Karn. G2 was able to fulminator a mine and extract the rest. G3 I never was able to extract his tron lands, but was able to keep them off tron by recurring fulminator multiple times.
Round 7: G Tron (D 1-1, overall 5-1-1)
G1 took FOREVER. It was a super bizarre game where I had the upper hand for the vast majority but it took forever to find a threat to finish him off. I ultimated LoTV TWICE in this game which was a first for me. G3 I was rushing to try and finish the match which led to a costly mistake. I extracted Wurmcoil instead of Karn when I had the chance (only 1 Karn left in the deck, multiple Wurms). BUT I had Kalitas in hand, so Wurm would've been the easier threat to answer if it resolved. Next turn he ripped his last Karn to destroy my Wandering fumarole and I wasn't able to finish him off by the end of turns.
Round 8: Esper Control (W 2-1, overall 6-1-1)
Nothing really notable. Esper felt like a worse version of UW.
Round 9: KCI (W 2-0, overall 7-1-1)
Another match where I was very glad to be running the discard-heavy version of Grixis Control. I thoughtseized at least 3 KCIs throughout the match, and discarded another with Fall. They did manage to land KCI one time, but I was able to destroy it with KCommand before he landed a retreiver.
Round 10: UW Control (D 1-1, overall 7-1-2)
Similar to my draw against tron, G1 took ~30 minutes before I was able to finish him off. G2 he found a window to resolve teferi and things snowballed from there. G3 I certainly would have lost if we had enough time, but I took the draw to increase my chance for prizes (good thing too, as I took 32nd as the only player with 35 pts).
Round 11: Jund Death's Shadow (W 2-1, overall 8-1-2)
I don't really remember G1 or G2. G3 I mulled to 6 and scried TS to the top. T1 he inquisitioned me and took my IoK. His game plan was reliant on having taken my hand disruption, and he was pretty salty when I TS'd his tarmogoyf T1 anyway.
Round 12: Jund (L 0-2, overall 8-2-2)
Bloodbraid did a lot of work. He cast 3 in a row G2 and I just didn't have enough answers. I think the Jund matchup is close to 50-50, but it certainly is draw-dependent.
Round 13: UR Phoenix (W 2-1, overall 9-2-2)
Spot removal slowed them down enough in G1 for me to land Kalitas, which finished the game in short order. G2 I got blown out by a T3 Blood Moon. G3 I extracted his arclight phoenixes and was able to answer his other threats with counterspells & spot removal. They were on a 3/3/1 split of TiTi/Drake/Reveler (at least after boarding when I was able to see his deck)
Round 14: Bant Spirits (W 2-1, overall 10-2-2)
G1 he thought I was on Death's Shadow and he took a little more conservative line than he should have. G2 my only T1 interaction was IoK and he had 2 Geists in hand. He went T1 noble -> T2 geist and I couldn't find an answer fast enough. G3 I kept wanderers off the battlefield with spot removal then blew him out with a T5 Consume the Meek. Coasted from there.
Round 15: UW Control (W 2-0, overall 11-2-2)
Another super long G1. We both ended with <10 cards left in library. G2 I landed an early Tasigur and finished him off relatively quickly.
Overall, I faced a bit of everything but the mix wasn't really representative. 4 UWx control was certainly more than I expected going into the weekend. I think we have the edge in the matchup if you focus on the few of their spells that really matter. I generally sideboard out at least 1 cryptic for this reason - winning the battle over those cards is vital and mana efficiency is key to that.
How do you find your jaces and snapcasters with no thought scours? I feel like serum visions is weaker especially with jace vp. Getting him online t3 is amazing.
I do like kalitas md though. Scarab feast is another card to consider for gy matchups in the maindeck
Jace was online T3 maybe ~1/3 of the time, T4 if not. 4 cards apart from the loot isn't tough to reach.
In a 22 land deck serum visions feels necessary over thought scour. If I ran thought scour I would want at least 24 lands if not 25. The selection is also nice in a build that runs discard + counterspells, as they're often dead at different times. The main thing I miss with snapcaster is the instant speed of thought scour.
I've thought about scarab feast but haven't actually tested it. I like that kalitas doubles as a win condition.
i played two small events with this list this week with good results, could have been better with more
tight play, this is only the second time ive really played this deck and im a bit rusty with modern.
I didnt have access to my entire grixis box so the sideboard and maindeck may seem a little weird, i was out
town.
I only ran 20 lands literally because i cant math, i counted 5 stacks of 4 as 24 and thought i was running 24
lands. while not realising this over the course of 7 matches, i can say that with the card selection of 8 cantrips
finding enough lands was never really an issue. A few times i may have took to much caution in fetching basics
to preserve life instead of getting optimal colors, but this was not a mana base problem only my own fault.
the first time i built this deck was pre jace, it was basically the same list minus the PWs and moons, and i won
a rptq lcq with it so i new the shell had some merit to it.
with jace now, i wanted to build as close as i could to a legacy grixis control shell
the first event i had anglers instead of titi, anglers are nice in legacy, but they felt a little lack luster in
modern, and titi provides a suedo board with with the large body and i feel a better comlement to Jtms. i realize its
nombo with pyromancer, but that is mostly irrelevant being a control deck.
out of the 7 matchs
2-1 merfolk
1-2 elves
2-0 red affinity
2-0 jeskai accendency
2-1 boggles
1-2 G tron
0-2 u/r pheonix
merfolk was nothing to note, they played guys, i killed them
same for affinity
jeskai, i was able to surgical wish game 1 and kill all his dudes, mull to 4 game 2
boggles did boggles game 1, game 2 got him with a geths verdict, then flooded the board with tokens until jace ultimate
game three he didnt draw many enchantments and pyromacer and burn was able to out race him
the losses here i feel are more important as almost all of them were due to poor decision making
the elves game 3 i was on the draw and kept a hand with island/swamp but red removal hoping i would draw a red source,
i didnt and he dorked and lorded it up and i died in short fashion by the time i found a red source. should have mulled the hand
i was kicking my self all night about this tron loss. so game 1 tron did its thing and i scooped to turn 5 ulamog. game 2 i played a turn 3 moon
followed by turn 5 jace and immediately began fatesealing, i managed to kcommand an ostone/discard karn twice before h could activate or cast either.
game 3, 1 IoK, thoughseize took his land finding spells, but left him with 2 karns and new emrakul, i negated the first karn on his turn 4, then turn 5
snap thoughtseize, only to find 2 more karns and emrakul stil, take emrakul as he can cast it next turn. he plays karn and pluses, attack with snappy down to 8, play jace
and brainstorm to find land, rejection, counterflux. I also have a bolt and pyro in hand. he minuses on jace, i bolt karn eot and finish him off with snapcaster beats.
play a pyromancer and pass, counterflux the second karn, and reject an ugin and start the clock countdown to victory with a snap back up for what ever he finds. And then i toss the match down the
drain with greed, he passes at 10 life, i decide to go for the win with snap bolt, only to get blown out by kozilecs return. draw a land and pass he then plays a 6/6 balista
and kills me in 2 turns.
the pheonix match loss i would attribute to a bit of inexpirence with the matchup, never played it before
game 1 he plays a titi, i play a titi, i thoughtseize him and see drake and double pheonix i take the drake hoping he tries to get the birds back from the yard because i have surgiacl in hand.
he draws a 4th land and just cast the 2 pheonix, only found discard and creatures with no removal
game 2 i feel like i had locked up, kill all his things had jace at 9, he played a drake and i decide to brainstorm to find an anwser to the lethal drake.
as soon as i finish brainstorming and realize im dead i see the line of bouncing my own snapcaster to
kill drake with my full yard, i probably looked at my yard 3 times that turn trying to figure what to do.
looking back on my list now,
Liliana isnt really great in modern as it is in legacy, not enough x/1s to get value, although when defended by pyromancer getting to ultimate is easy.
im unsure if i would want her in the 75 at all.
Kcommand again, amazing in legacy mainly due stonefore mystic, and still great at grinding in modern. it felt clunky and not very useful outside of tron.
i woulndt cut them completely, but probably 2 is correct number in this deck.
the oddballs
i chose to run kalitas, moons, surgical, and negate to have outs maindeck game 1 to some of the difficult matchups.
there are so many options to chose from for flex spots, it makes it hard to choose what is right. i tried kalitas just to
try him out, it had minimal impact. it won me a game vs elves and thats about it, i think he is just to slow for his affect, but the lifelink can be
a savior.
negate is negate, nice to have, almost every deck has something.
i ended up playing a lot of matchs where moon really wasnt great, but the plus side is that my life total wasnt taking a beating from shocks.
i think i would keep it main, it can get free wins, shuts off man lands, no one will expect it game one.
a lot of people say grixis has issues with the meta right now due to so many recursive threats. well i thought
why not, one surgical main, give myself a fighting chance game one, it also pairs well with titi and pyromancer.
i was very rushed putting my side board together and i didnt have all my cards with me. being modern, you cant
board for everything so i would chose to focus my choices to fight meta heavy decks not bad matchups.
i would really want 2 collective brutality but it really is only good for burn i feel, but if burn where to see
a big upswing i would incorporate them somewhere.
Hello everyone, I've spent a lot of time reading about this topic since playing Grixis Control.
I started with the deck in early 2017 for a season of Modern honorable with good results in GP and a Pro Tour qualification. I was playing a list close to C. Burkhart list with differents SB plans.
Then there were an update of the banlist, the arrival of BBE, Jace, Humans and the meta was completely shuffle.
I started again recently with the deck inspired by your latest versions, that I have almost all test on MTGO (YP, N. Bolas, Nimble, Tasigur, ...). Although the list should still evolve a lot with the upcoming tests, I also wanted to share my progress.
After encouraging results on MTGO, I decided to test the list on a IRL tournament (Win-a-Box). My pairings:
Humans - 2-1
UB Control - 0-2 (but the game was very tight)
Spirits - 1-1
UB Mill - 2-0
RG Ponza - 2-0
Top8 - Hollow One - 2-1, I give the victory to my opponent, because lack of time.
Conclusions with these tests :
1st - Kalitas / Thing in the Ice are very well positionned in the current metagame.
2nd - Although it was not obvious to play so much discard in the Archetype, an approach more midrange than control seems to be the right way to set up properly Thing in the Ice, Kalitas or Planeswalker for a solid late game plan. I try to cut all counter, but i think we need to keep some of them, including 2 Cryptic Command to have an answer to some painful permanent (Adoration, Leyline of Sanctify, RIP ...)
I'm not sure if Rise / Fall is really a good card yet. I wonder if an additional Kolaghan's Command would fit better to the deck.
For the sideboard part, it's classic, except Venser, which is like as a 3rd Cryptic to handle some painful permanent. It's also a very good answer in some MUs like Hollow One / Grixis DS (the card goes under Stubborn Denial)
I will read your feedback carefully, I intend to play Grixis again in GP.
Yesterday I went to my first LGS event, it was a 4 round event with no top8. My main problem is that I only play with friends, therefore some matchups are unknown to me.
This is my list, I love this wait and see version.
Round 1 (2-0) vs Hardened scales
Game 1 was very smooth, I could counter every walking ballista and hangarback walker, kill any other creature and kill him slowly with snapcaster mage
Game 2 he had only two creatures, I played an engineered explosives for two and he could not do anything else
Round 2 (1-1) vs Jund
Game 1 I countered almost every thread that he played (I could see the pain in his eyes) and I won easy with a Tasigur, the golden fang
Game 2 the same as game 1, but when he was at 2 life and I was beating him with a snapcaster mage he drew a bloodbraid elf into a liliana of the veil that changed the board state. He drew two tarmogoyf after that and I only drew lands
Game 3 I was controlling the game and I casted a Tasigur, the golden fang into an empty board, but I had no time to win
Round 3 (2-0) vs GW devoted company
Game 1 was pretty one sided, he drew a lot of lands and I could control the game from the beginning.
Game 2 he was a little bit tilted and he made some critical mistakes. Even so, I controlled the game pretty well and I think this is a good matchup
Round 4 (1-2) vs Storm
Game 1 I drew no counterspells, only creature hate and he won easy on turn 4 with no creatures.
Game 2 I could use surgical extraction on a grapeshot and then played snapcaster mage to remove an empty the warrens and we went to game 3
Game 3 I could counter the key spells, spell snare was really strong (he didn't expect the second one), and the game was long so we went to turns. I drew no graveyard hate and he finally could combo when he was at 3 life. I made a couple mistakes fetching lands and I casted Tasigur, the golden fang two turns late, and that cost me the game.
Overall I feel pretty happy with my first experience in a LGS. I need to practice more against different games and learn how to sideboard. I am very happy with the deck right now, I am only doubting between vendilion clique and kalitas, traitor of ghet. It was the first time that I mainboarded engineered explosives and I pretty happy with it. I wasn't very sure about it, but it gave me a couple of games. I am satisfied with the counter package. I was also very lucky to avoid dredge.
I am thinking about the sideboard, and I miss a third surgical extraction and a third ceremonious rejection, but I don't know what to take out. Rakdos charm is pretty sweet in a lot of matchups and almost nobody expects it.
If anyone has any suggestions, I will appreciate them!
The Kiki list looks pretty good, but I was curious about the manabase. Are 5 Island necessary when you are not running Blood Moon? I would add the 4th Polluted Delta to improve consistency of getting 1 black mana. Cast Down over Terminate is pretty interesting.
Several lists already play Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize and Ancestral Vision, all cards that play fairly well with Electrodominance. JVP can also be "flashed" in with this card after representing a counterspell, among other creatures and walkers.
I could see this card working to bridge the gap between discard and counterspells as the game progresses. It also pairs well with K-command's shock mode, countersquall, and normal snapcaster bolts and beats.
Dropping JTMS is always unattractive because you're 4 mana out on your own turn. Getting to 6 mana, doing 4 damage and dropping JTMS on their END STEP however....
excuse me I need to grab a napkin to wipe the drool off my face
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Several lists already play Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize and Ancestral Vision, all cards that play fairly well with Electrodominance. JVP can also be "flashed" in with this card after representing a counterspell, among other creatures and walkers.
I could see this card working to bridge the gap between discard and counterspells as the game progresses.
This.
JaceTMS at intant speed sounds ...too good.
Draw Step IoK,Thoughtseize,maybe Brutality or Serum Visions sounds more level headed and more likely to work.
Hi guys, I'm back on Grixis Control after a 2 years hiatus with the deck. I've been getting back to control in general and all its flavours (Jeskai, Grixis, Esper, even UW). So here's my list, I'm looking at comments and such to make sure everything feels right with it. I've read the last 6 pages of content and I'd like to thank everyone who's contributing to the thread actively : whocansay, ID_Surge, MarcWizard, pf_mtg just to name a few of you.
In all, here's what I'll be working with (this is a first serious draft, I'm open to change a couple of things) :
you're too kind sir, i haven't been playing grixis for a long while since I started working on my mardu deck.
I feel like grixis's position in the current meta is really strained due to the high representation of Dredge and Tron, or it could be just my locale, but the guys here like winning a lot, so I hardly face anything less than mtgtop8 or r/spikes. The decks of last month that we preyed on, like humans and storm, seem to have gone into hiding.
If you're seeing a (un)healthy amount of dredge, then I fear spellbomb and anger may not be sufficient, and nothing less than Leyline of the Void will work. Before creeping chill, it could have bought you enough time to stabilize. Now though, stabilizing at anything less than the number of creeping chills in the library left x3 life is dangerous. I've stabilized at 11, then got hit by 2 creeping chills and conflagrate. Dredge has been granted incredible reach capability in addition to its resilient and lightning fast board.
With regards to Tron, the fields of ruin may do some work but with 2 tasigurs and 3 snaps your closing ability may be lagging. Surgical on a tron land after land destruction will work good as always, though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
I replaced P&K with another Vendilion Clique and the Nimble Obstructionist in the SB with a second Kalitas last week.
For the rest, basically relacing one Ionize with a Cryptic and maybe the other with a 4th Basic Island?
1 Gurmag Angler
2 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instant
3 Cryptic Command
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Logic Knot
2 Thought Scour
Sorcery
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Languish
3 Serum Visions
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dreadbore
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Enchantment
1 Search for Azcanta
Land
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Abrade
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Collective Brutality
1 Countersquall
1 Damping Sphere
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Thief of Sanity
Notes:
No Field of Ruins, I'm just trying to beat Tron and other Land decks with discard. It's not the best plan, but we are unfavored against them anyways, and I'd rather have the consistent mana. We don't have the luxury of 2 color like UW does. I'd rather just try and fight with discard and card advantage rather than blow up their lands. Pithing Needle helps with walkers like Karn or even in other match ups, like Liliana.
No Damnation. I just think the card is bad and Engineered Explosives and Languish are just better options. Honestly might go up to 2 EEsin the 75, the card is just amazing especially in this meta.
Thief of Sanity comes in vs grindy match ups. The idea is that we are thinning the delve creatures post board alongside a thought scour or two. Thief is a pretty huge threat when it comes to virtual card advantage, and creates a situation where they need to use a removal spell or they lose. Most likely they will be siding out some removal like against Jund, and UW will be forced to use Path to Exile, which could benefit us with the ramp, and decrease their odds to draw it alter for our real threats like Nicol Bolas
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Land
1 Mountain
3 Island
2 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Blood Crypt
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Wandering Fumarole
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Field of Ruin
2 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Logic Knot
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Cryptic Command
1 Fatal Push
Sorcery
4 Serum Visions
2 Rise // Fall
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
Planeswalker
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Countersquall
2 Consume the Meek
2 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Dispel
2 Collective Brutality
A few tweaks I made from what Gods_Shadow has been running:
Main deck Kalitas: With the rise in UR Phoenix I thought the number of decks I sided in Kalitas had reached the point where I wanted one main. I was very pleased with the addition, as it was responsible for my G1 wins against both Hollow One and UR Phoenix.
Consume the Meek: The card is bonkers against Bant Spirits, which I expected to see in large numbers. Instant speed and avoids Spell Queller. The main risk is a CoCo in response finding Mausoleum Wanderer. I was happy with 2 in the side. I did not miss Damnation, although I think running 1 Anger of the Gods would be defensible as well.
Surgical/Extirpate split: I was very high on extirpate when I ran the Burkhart version of the deck. When Field of Ruin is your answer to Tron, it leaves you with the necessary Swamp to cast Extirpate which minimizes the 1-mana downside. Its ability to prevent fetchlands from returning Bloodghasts around Surgical Extraction is great, as is the ability to prevent Tron from protecting its graveyard with Relic. Now that I'm running Fulminators I changed to a 1/2 split. Still not sure if that's correct, but split second did come up against UR Phoenix when they tried to Dispel it.
Fatal Push: Gods_Shadow hasn't been running any fatal push lately, but with UR Phoenix becoming more popular my terminates were starting to feel stretched thin between TiTi, drake, and reveler out of that deck. Cut the 3rd JVP for it and the change felt good against the mix of decks I faced.
I didn't take any notes during the GP so I'll just make an abbreviated tournament report with the highlights I can remember
Round 1: BR Hollow One (W 2-1, overall 1-0)
A timely KCommand killing Hollow One + Flameblade Adept allowed me to land a Kalitas. After that G1 was basically GG. G2 a T1 burning inquiry destroyed my hand by leaving me with mismatched lands + spells and I was never able to recover. G3 I extracted his flamewakes and then rode a Kalitas for the win.
Round 2: Bant Spirits (L 1-2, overall 1-1)
G1 I was on the draw and they had a brutal start. T1 vial led to T3 Drogskol + Phantasmal Image. They played around any chance for Nimble to block and I never drew LoTV which was my only other main deck answer to multiple Drogkols. G2 I drew a ton of spot removal & hand disruption and was able to grind them out. G3 was my first big mistake - I kept way too slow of a starting 7, and they led wanderer into thalia and I wasn't able to catch up.
Round 3: Merfolk (W 2-1, overall 2-1)
I don't remember anything particularly out of the ordinary here. I got blown out by a Deprive G2. G3 I inquisitioned a silvergill and his hand ended up pretty anemic after that.
Round 4: UW Control (W 2-1, overall 3-1)
G1 I was able to strip their hand of threats while they stumbled on mana early. T2 inquisition into T3 Fall into T4 Snap->Fall. I ended up facing UWx Control 4 times this weekend and I was very happy to have as much hand disruption as I did. G2 they hit a T2 Azcanta to which I wasn't able to find a timely answer. G3 fulminator was an all-star. I was able to keep them at a 3+ land disadvantage starting ~turn 6 and they weren't able to land any big threats.
Round 5: Storm (W 2-0, overall 4-1)
G1 flashed in a T2 snap to get early pressure. A mix of TS/inquisition/Fall kept them from reaching a critical mass of spells. Never got close to storming off. G2 I kept baral/electromancer off the table which forced them to go for a small (~4 storm) empty the warrens. Staticaster backed up by countersquall sealed the match.
Round 6: G Tron (W 2-1, overall 5-1)
G1 got destroyed by T3 Karn. G2 was able to fulminator a mine and extract the rest. G3 I never was able to extract his tron lands, but was able to keep them off tron by recurring fulminator multiple times.
Round 7: G Tron (D 1-1, overall 5-1-1)
G1 took FOREVER. It was a super bizarre game where I had the upper hand for the vast majority but it took forever to find a threat to finish him off. I ultimated LoTV TWICE in this game which was a first for me. G3 I was rushing to try and finish the match which led to a costly mistake. I extracted Wurmcoil instead of Karn when I had the chance (only 1 Karn left in the deck, multiple Wurms). BUT I had Kalitas in hand, so Wurm would've been the easier threat to answer if it resolved. Next turn he ripped his last Karn to destroy my Wandering fumarole and I wasn't able to finish him off by the end of turns.
Round 8: Esper Control (W 2-1, overall 6-1-1)
Nothing really notable. Esper felt like a worse version of UW.
Round 9: KCI (W 2-0, overall 7-1-1)
Another match where I was very glad to be running the discard-heavy version of Grixis Control. I thoughtseized at least 3 KCIs throughout the match, and discarded another with Fall. They did manage to land KCI one time, but I was able to destroy it with KCommand before he landed a retreiver.
Round 10: UW Control (D 1-1, overall 7-1-2)
Similar to my draw against tron, G1 took ~30 minutes before I was able to finish him off. G2 he found a window to resolve teferi and things snowballed from there. G3 I certainly would have lost if we had enough time, but I took the draw to increase my chance for prizes (good thing too, as I took 32nd as the only player with 35 pts).
Round 11: Jund Death's Shadow (W 2-1, overall 8-1-2)
I don't really remember G1 or G2. G3 I mulled to 6 and scried TS to the top. T1 he inquisitioned me and took my IoK. His game plan was reliant on having taken my hand disruption, and he was pretty salty when I TS'd his tarmogoyf T1 anyway.
Round 12: Jund (L 0-2, overall 8-2-2)
Bloodbraid did a lot of work. He cast 3 in a row G2 and I just didn't have enough answers. I think the Jund matchup is close to 50-50, but it certainly is draw-dependent.
Round 13: UR Phoenix (W 2-1, overall 9-2-2)
Spot removal slowed them down enough in G1 for me to land Kalitas, which finished the game in short order. G2 I got blown out by a T3 Blood Moon. G3 I extracted his arclight phoenixes and was able to answer his other threats with counterspells & spot removal. They were on a 3/3/1 split of TiTi/Drake/Reveler (at least after boarding when I was able to see his deck)
Round 14: Bant Spirits (W 2-1, overall 10-2-2)
G1 he thought I was on Death's Shadow and he took a little more conservative line than he should have. G2 my only T1 interaction was IoK and he had 2 Geists in hand. He went T1 noble -> T2 geist and I couldn't find an answer fast enough. G3 I kept wanderers off the battlefield with spot removal then blew him out with a T5 Consume the Meek. Coasted from there.
Round 15: UW Control (W 2-0, overall 11-2-2)
Another super long G1. We both ended with <10 cards left in library. G2 I landed an early Tasigur and finished him off relatively quickly.
Overall, I faced a bit of everything but the mix wasn't really representative. 4 UWx control was certainly more than I expected going into the weekend. I think we have the edge in the matchup if you focus on the few of their spells that really matter. I generally sideboard out at least 1 cryptic for this reason - winning the battle over those cards is vital and mana efficiency is key to that.
Spirits
How do you find your jaces and snapcasters with no thought scours? I feel like serum visions is weaker especially with jace vp. Getting him online t3 is amazing.
I do like kalitas md though. Scarab feast is another card to consider for gy matchups in the maindeck
In a 22 land deck serum visions feels necessary over thought scour. If I ran thought scour I would want at least 24 lands if not 25. The selection is also nice in a build that runs discard + counterspells, as they're often dead at different times. The main thing I miss with snapcaster is the instant speed of thought scour.
I've thought about scarab feast but haven't actually tested it. I like that kalitas doubles as a win condition.
3 young pyromancer
2 thing in the ice
1 kalitas, traitor of ghet
4 serum visions
4 sleight of hand
4 lightning bolt
2 fatal push
2 terminate
2 thoughtseize
3 inquisition of kozilec
3 kolaghans command
1 negate
1 surgical extraction
2 jace, the mind sculptor
1 liliana, the last hope
2 blood moon
4 polluted delta
4 scalding tarn
2 bloodstained mire
4 island
2 swamp
1 mountain
1 steam vents
1 blood crypt
1 watery grave
sb
1 anger of the gods
2 cerimonious rejection
1 negate
1 counterflux
1 geths verdict
1 devour flesh
1 spell snare
1 dispel
3 surgical extraction
2 pithing needle
1 collective brutaility
i played two small events with this list this week with good results, could have been better with more
tight play, this is only the second time ive really played this deck and im a bit rusty with modern.
I didnt have access to my entire grixis box so the sideboard and maindeck may seem a little weird, i was out
town.
I only ran 20 lands literally because i cant math, i counted 5 stacks of 4 as 24 and thought i was running 24
lands. while not realising this over the course of 7 matches, i can say that with the card selection of 8 cantrips
finding enough lands was never really an issue. A few times i may have took to much caution in fetching basics
to preserve life instead of getting optimal colors, but this was not a mana base problem only my own fault.
the first time i built this deck was pre jace, it was basically the same list minus the PWs and moons, and i won
a rptq lcq with it so i new the shell had some merit to it.
with jace now, i wanted to build as close as i could to a legacy grixis control shell
the first event i had anglers instead of titi, anglers are nice in legacy, but they felt a little lack luster in
modern, and titi provides a suedo board with with the large body and i feel a better comlement to Jtms. i realize its
nombo with pyromancer, but that is mostly irrelevant being a control deck.
out of the 7 matchs
2-1 merfolk
1-2 elves
2-0 red affinity
2-0 jeskai accendency
2-1 boggles
1-2 G tron
0-2 u/r pheonix
merfolk was nothing to note, they played guys, i killed them
same for affinity
jeskai, i was able to surgical wish game 1 and kill all his dudes, mull to 4 game 2
boggles did boggles game 1, game 2 got him with a geths verdict, then flooded the board with tokens until jace ultimate
game three he didnt draw many enchantments and pyromacer and burn was able to out race him
the losses here i feel are more important as almost all of them were due to poor decision making
the elves game 3 i was on the draw and kept a hand with island/swamp but red removal hoping i would draw a red source,
i didnt and he dorked and lorded it up and i died in short fashion by the time i found a red source. should have mulled the hand
i was kicking my self all night about this tron loss. so game 1 tron did its thing and i scooped to turn 5 ulamog. game 2 i played a turn 3 moon
followed by turn 5 jace and immediately began fatesealing, i managed to kcommand an ostone/discard karn twice before h could activate or cast either.
game 3, 1 IoK, thoughseize took his land finding spells, but left him with 2 karns and new emrakul, i negated the first karn on his turn 4, then turn 5
snap thoughtseize, only to find 2 more karns and emrakul stil, take emrakul as he can cast it next turn. he plays karn and pluses, attack with snappy down to 8, play jace
and brainstorm to find land, rejection, counterflux. I also have a bolt and pyro in hand. he minuses on jace, i bolt karn eot and finish him off with snapcaster beats.
play a pyromancer and pass, counterflux the second karn, and reject an ugin and start the clock countdown to victory with a snap back up for what ever he finds. And then i toss the match down the
drain with greed, he passes at 10 life, i decide to go for the win with snap bolt, only to get blown out by kozilecs return. draw a land and pass he then plays a 6/6 balista
and kills me in 2 turns.
the pheonix match loss i would attribute to a bit of inexpirence with the matchup, never played it before
game 1 he plays a titi, i play a titi, i thoughtseize him and see drake and double pheonix i take the drake hoping he tries to get the birds back from the yard because i have surgiacl in hand.
he draws a 4th land and just cast the 2 pheonix, only found discard and creatures with no removal
game 2 i feel like i had locked up, kill all his things had jace at 9, he played a drake and i decide to brainstorm to find an anwser to the lethal drake.
as soon as i finish brainstorming and realize im dead i see the line of bouncing my own snapcaster to
kill drake with my full yard, i probably looked at my yard 3 times that turn trying to figure what to do.
looking back on my list now,
Liliana isnt really great in modern as it is in legacy, not enough x/1s to get value, although when defended by pyromancer getting to ultimate is easy.
im unsure if i would want her in the 75 at all.
Kcommand again, amazing in legacy mainly due stonefore mystic, and still great at grinding in modern. it felt clunky and not very useful outside of tron.
i woulndt cut them completely, but probably 2 is correct number in this deck.
the oddballs
i chose to run kalitas, moons, surgical, and negate to have outs maindeck game 1 to some of the difficult matchups.
there are so many options to chose from for flex spots, it makes it hard to choose what is right. i tried kalitas just to
try him out, it had minimal impact. it won me a game vs elves and thats about it, i think he is just to slow for his affect, but the lifelink can be
a savior.
negate is negate, nice to have, almost every deck has something.
i ended up playing a lot of matchs where moon really wasnt great, but the plus side is that my life total wasnt taking a beating from shocks.
i think i would keep it main, it can get free wins, shuts off man lands, no one will expect it game one.
a lot of people say grixis has issues with the meta right now due to so many recursive threats. well i thought
why not, one surgical main, give myself a fighting chance game one, it also pairs well with titi and pyromancer.
i was very rushed putting my side board together and i didnt have all my cards with me. being modern, you cant
board for everything so i would chose to focus my choices to fight meta heavy decks not bad matchups.
i would really want 2 collective brutality but it really is only good for burn i feel, but if burn where to see
a big upswing i would incorporate them somewhere.
ideally it would look like
4 ceremonious rejection
3 surgical extraction
1 pithing needle
1 sorcerous spyglass
1 negate
1 dispel
1 counterflux
1 geths verdict
1 devour flesh
1 consume the meek
the last thing i feel like i needed was one more red source, i would probably cut a mire for a second mountain or steam vents
hope this gives people more ideas or inspiration for the archtype
I started with the deck in early 2017 for a season of Modern honorable with good results in GP and a Pro Tour qualification. I was playing a list close to C. Burkhart list with differents SB plans.
Here my 2017 list
Then there were an update of the banlist, the arrival of BBE, Jace, Humans and the meta was completely shuffle.
I started again recently with the deck inspired by your latest versions, that I have almost all test on MTGO (YP, N. Bolas, Nimble, Tasigur, ...). Although the list should still evolve a lot with the upcoming tests, I also wanted to share my progress.
2 Thing in the Ice
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Land
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Field of Ruin
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
Instant
2 Logic Knot
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Cryptic Command
2 Terminate
Sorcery
1 Rise // Fall
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Serum Visions
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Extirpate
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Dispel
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Consume the Meek
2 Negate
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
After encouraging results on MTGO, I decided to test the list on a IRL tournament (Win-a-Box). My pairings:
Humans - 2-1
UB Control - 0-2 (but the game was very tight)
Spirits - 1-1
UB Mill - 2-0
RG Ponza - 2-0
Top8 - Hollow One - 2-1, I give the victory to my opponent, because lack of time.
Conclusions with these tests :
1st - Kalitas / Thing in the Ice are very well positionned in the current metagame.
2nd - Although it was not obvious to play so much discard in the Archetype, an approach more midrange than control seems to be the right way to set up properly Thing in the Ice, Kalitas or Planeswalker for a solid late game plan. I try to cut all counter, but i think we need to keep some of them, including 2 Cryptic Command to have an answer to some painful permanent (Adoration, Leyline of Sanctify, RIP ...)
I'm not sure if Rise / Fall is really a good card yet. I wonder if an additional Kolaghan's Command would fit better to the deck.
For the sideboard part, it's classic, except Venser, which is like as a 3rd Cryptic to handle some painful permanent. It's also a very good answer in some MUs like Hollow One / Grixis DS (the card goes under Stubborn Denial)
I will read your feedback carefully, I intend to play Grixis again in GP.
This is my list, I love this wait and see version.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/8613-grixis-control
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Enchantment
2 Search for Azcanta
Land
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Field of Ruin
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
Instant
1 Countersquall
4 Thought Scour
2 Logic Knot
2 Spell Snare
4 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
1 Terminate
1 Dismember
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Dispel
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Damnation
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Dreadbore
Round 1 (2-0) vs Hardened scales
Game 1 was very smooth, I could counter every walking ballista and hangarback walker, kill any other creature and kill him slowly with snapcaster mage
Game 2 he had only two creatures, I played an engineered explosives for two and he could not do anything else
Round 2 (1-1) vs Jund
Game 1 I countered almost every thread that he played (I could see the pain in his eyes) and I won easy with a Tasigur, the golden fang
Game 2 the same as game 1, but when he was at 2 life and I was beating him with a snapcaster mage he drew a bloodbraid elf into a liliana of the veil that changed the board state. He drew two tarmogoyf after that and I only drew lands
Game 3 I was controlling the game and I casted a Tasigur, the golden fang into an empty board, but I had no time to win
Round 3 (2-0) vs GW devoted company
Game 1 was pretty one sided, he drew a lot of lands and I could control the game from the beginning.
Game 2 he was a little bit tilted and he made some critical mistakes. Even so, I controlled the game pretty well and I think this is a good matchup
Round 4 (1-2) vs Storm
Game 1 I drew no counterspells, only creature hate and he won easy on turn 4 with no creatures.
Game 2 I could use surgical extraction on a grapeshot and then played snapcaster mage to remove an empty the warrens and we went to game 3
Game 3 I could counter the key spells, spell snare was really strong (he didn't expect the second one), and the game was long so we went to turns. I drew no graveyard hate and he finally could combo when he was at 3 life. I made a couple mistakes fetching lands and I casted Tasigur, the golden fang two turns late, and that cost me the game.
Overall I feel pretty happy with my first experience in a LGS. I need to practice more against different games and learn how to sideboard. I am very happy with the deck right now, I am only doubting between vendilion clique and kalitas, traitor of ghet. It was the first time that I mainboarded engineered explosives and I pretty happy with it. I wasn't very sure about it, but it gave me a couple of games. I am satisfied with the counter package. I was also very lucky to avoid dredge.
I am thinking about the sideboard, and I miss a third surgical extraction and a third ceremonious rejection, but I don't know what to take out. Rakdos charm is pretty sweet in a lot of matchups and almost nobody expects it.
If anyone has any suggestions, I will appreciate them!
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1561316#paper
I've tested it a little bit in the past few days and think it's incredible. Your thoughts?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Several lists already play Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize and Ancestral Vision, all cards that play fairly well with Electrodominance. JVP can also be "flashed" in with this card after representing a counterspell, among other creatures and walkers.
I could see this card working to bridge the gap between discard and counterspells as the game progresses. It also pairs well with K-command's shock mode, countersquall, and normal snapcaster bolts and beats.
excuse me I need to grab a napkin to wipe the drool off my face
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
This.
JaceTMS at intant speed sounds ...too good.
Draw Step IoK,Thoughtseize,maybe Brutality or Serum Visions sounds more level headed and more likely to work.
Also Dreadbore of course!
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
In all, here's what I'll be working with (this is a first serious draft, I'm open to change a couple of things) :
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells (27)
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
4 Thought Scour
2 Logic Knot
1 Negate
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands (24)
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Field of Ruin
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Dispel
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Anger of the Gods
The things I want to adress :
1) Maybe 24 lands is too much. Not sure about it.
2) I'm comfortable with 3 Snapcaster Mage and 2 Kolaghan's Command. 4 Snapcaster Mage feels overkill sometimes to me, but 4 Cryptic Command never feels wrong.
3) For the sideboard, I'm really leaning toward the bad matchups :
Burn - 2 Dispel, 2 Collective Brutality just for that and 1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is good I think. Should I need more? Like 2 Sun Droplet ?
Combo - 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Collective Brutality and 2 Dispel should do it.
Aggro - 2 Anger of the Gods, 2 Collective Brutality should get the job done.
Midrange - 2 Fulminator Mage and 1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet with 2 Nihil Spellbomb is ok I guess.
Tron - 2 Fulminator Mage, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Surgical Extraction and the 3 mainboard Field of Ruin should be enough right?
Cheers guys !
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I feel like grixis's position in the current meta is really strained due to the high representation of Dredge and Tron, or it could be just my locale, but the guys here like winning a lot, so I hardly face anything less than mtgtop8 or r/spikes. The decks of last month that we preyed on, like humans and storm, seem to have gone into hiding.
If you're seeing a (un)healthy amount of dredge, then I fear spellbomb and anger may not be sufficient, and nothing less than Leyline of the Void will work. Before creeping chill, it could have bought you enough time to stabilize. Now though, stabilizing at anything less than the number of creeping chills in the library left x3 life is dangerous. I've stabilized at 11, then got hit by 2 creeping chills and conflagrate. Dredge has been granted incredible reach capability in addition to its resilient and lightning fast board.
With regards to Tron, the fields of ruin may do some work but with 2 tasigurs and 3 snaps your closing ability may be lagging. Surgical on a tron land after land destruction will work good as always, though.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki