Yesterday this list was posted as a 5-0 league winner and got me thinking; is Crackling Drake a worthwhile threat in Grixis? It plays a similar role to Nicol Bolas, the Ravager as it’s a 4 drop that gives value when it ETBs and gets better in the late game. However, drawing a card is usually going to be better than making an opponent discard a card of their choice, and having a huge flier is usually better than needing to pay 7 mana at sorcery speed to flip Bolas. From my experience, Nicol Bolas is much more important as a large flier than it ever is as a late game threat. Also, Drake isn’t legendary so the value of having several in play is something that needs consideration. Evaluating the Drake within the scope of a Grixis shell makes me think it’s a reasonable choice. It doesn’t fight Tasigur, it plays well with discard spells, and it’s great to get back with K Command. Here is a preliminary list:
4 Drake may not be correct but I figured I should jam the set to get a feel for how good it is. I could also see Cryptic Command being necessary, I just didn’t want to gum up the 4 mana slot. The sideboard is nothing crazy. Surgical Extraction has a not so obvious use in this deck as a pseudo pump spell as you can surgical one of your own spells to grow your Drake.
Yesterday this list was posted as a 5-0 league winner and got me thinking; is Crackling Drake a worthwhile threat in Grixis? It plays a similar role to Nicol Bolas, the Ravager as it’s a 4 drop that gives value when it ETBs and gets better in the late game. However, drawing a card is usually going to be better than making an opponent discard a card of their choice, and having a huge flier is usually better than needing to pay 7 mana at sorcery speed to flip Bolas. From my experience, Nicol Bolas is much more important as a large flier than it ever is as a late game threat. Also, Drake isn’t legendary so the value of having several in play is something that needs consideration. Evaluating the Drake within the scope of a Grixis shell makes me think it’s a reasonable choice. It doesn’t fight Tasigur, it plays well with discard spells, and it’s great to get back with K Command. Here is a preliminary list:
4 Drake may not be correct but I figured I should jam the set to get a feel for how good it is. I could also see Cryptic Command being necessary, I just didn’t want to gum up the 4 mana slot. The sideboard is nothing crazy. Surgical Extraction has a not so obvious use in this deck as a pseudo pump spell as you can surgical one of your own spells to grow your Drake.
That's certainly one card I find very interesting, and I agree with you that drawing one is better than making your opponent discard one. 4 might not be the best number though, maybe 2 as a finisher would be better, drake's main problem is the restrictive manacost.
That's certainly one card I find very interesting, and I agree with you that drawing one is better than making your opponent discard one. 4 might not be the best number though, maybe 2 as a finisher would be better, drake's main problem is the restrictive manacost.
Very much this. Getting UURR is way harder than 1UBR and the more discard you have in the deck the more you're incentivized to get black early. Combine that with field of ruin making things awkward it can be pretty difficult to cast on curve. It does work amazingly with the scour package and can close games fast, I'll give it that. I've yet to test it myself, even though I'm the one that tests that sorta thing rigorously in these parts. Most of my time lately has been spent testing standard so I haven't gotten much time on other grixis variants, but I'm 100% going to give this one an honest run through and see how it fares.
The real question will be how good is the closing speed vs not having a late game cruel ultimatum split card. Can you kill fast enough in a game where you would normally flip bolas? After that it becomes assuming you can 100% always cast it on curve, does the restrictive cost cause more trouble than it's worth? A four power flier is already great with bolas, but how consistently will it be something like a seven power monster?
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
I tested Crackling Drake early on and its too mana intensive. I only played 10 games with it and never cast it and just started siding it out every match
I'm coming into this a little late, how do people feel about Nicol Bolas, the Ravager. He seems fantastic and outside of the running into path or a fatal push that has a fetchland behind it, he is a bruiser with good evasion. He can block mantis rider and other small critters and comes with the free discard. Sorry if I missed this, but were people feeling that the morph cost was prohibitive? Anyone test this and like/dislike it?
I'm not sure what the general consensus was, but there are a few who like him for those reasons. His EtB discard trigger makes him a 2 for 1 in most cases, stack some K-Commands on top of it and you have an engine of sorts to grind with. I think my favorite anecdote from someone in this thread was about the secret ability of creatures called "blocking" that keeps your walkers alive longer.
He's a great mid game beater and if for some reason you are comfortable flipping him then you're probably about to win.
I'm coming into this a little late, how do people feel about Nicol Bolas, the Ravager. He seems fantastic and outside of the running into path or a fatal push that has a fetchland behind it, he is a bruiser with good evasion. He can block mantis rider and other small critters and comes with the free discard. Sorry if I missed this, but were people feeling that the morph cost was prohibitive? Anyone test this and like/dislike it?
I believe that I've been the main proponent of including bolas in grixis so I'll give you the quick TL;DR of my experiences with it. I have been extremely happy with him in my grixis list, even though he started out as just a meme, and have been on two copies for a long time. The way you need to approach thinking of him is as a split card. Part 4/4 wall with a promised 2-for-1 and part cruel ultimatum. Don't think of either part as the primary reason to play him, it's the sum of the parts that makes him quite good. I like that he is a good play on turn four and turn fifteen with the latter being an "I win" button incredibly often. Even against decks like humans, UW or even storm the flip ability is relevant and will win you the game every time in my experience.
You do need to build your deck a touch differently like having some discard to see if tapping out is ok and you can lean on things like AV more since you have a mana dump in case you flood out. All in all he is a great win con and works very well with our plan of whittling down the opponent's hand with snap Kommand and other discard effects perfectly.
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In case you missed it, Frank Karsten wrote an updated article on his mana source calculations over at CFB. Here's a link to the article where he goes much more in depth with the explanations and the assumptions made along with some minor tweaks and updates on how to consider building a proper mana base. There is still a convienant table near the start for quick reference when checking your work. As before this is an incredible resources, especially in a deck that leans hard on multi colored spells alongside cryptic command.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
I'm coming into this a little late, how do people feel about Nicol Bolas, the Ravager. He seems fantastic and outside of the running into path or a fatal push that has a fetchland behind it, he is a bruiser with good evasion. He can block mantis rider and other small critters and comes with the free discard. Sorry if I missed this, but were people feeling that the morph cost was prohibitive? Anyone test this and like/dislike it?
I believe that I've been the main proponent of including bolas in grixis so I'll give you the quick TL;DR of my experiences with it. I have been extremely happy with him in my grixis list, even though he started out as just a meme, and have been on two copies for a long time. The way you need to approach thinking of him is as a split card. Part 4/4 wall with a promised 2-for-1 and part cruel ultimatum. Don't think of either part as the primary reason to play him, it's the sum of the parts that makes him quite good. I like that he is a good play on turn four and turn fifteen with the latter being an "I win" button incredibly often. Even against decks like humans, UW or even storm the flip ability is relevant and will win you the game every time in my experience.
You do need to build your deck a touch differently like having some discard to see if tapping out is ok and you can lean on things like AV more since you have a mana dump in case you flood out. All in all he is a great win con and works very well with our plan of whittling down the opponent's hand with snap Kommand and other discard effects perfectly.
Thanks for the great response! Any way I could see your list including him?
Thanks for the great response! Any way I could see your list including him?
Here's where I'm at currently. The SB is entirely based on what I expect to play against locally so it would have a few tweaks to a large and open field.
Goblin Dark Dwellers may be too durdely but my meta is mainly Control and Burn and i think getting a decent body and a removal for free with it is decent against the decks. Against Control flashing back Ancestral sounds nice aswell.
Crackling Drake may be a bit hard to cast but with Thoughtscours it sounds really appealing to me. Additionally it does not get worse with Delve or Snapcaster which is a huge argument for it in my opinion. I have thought about cutting the Drowned Catacomb for a Sulfur Falls to make it easier to cast.
Notes about some card choices:
- Collective Brutality is the main because I want to protect myself against aggro with life gain plus the card is very versatile outside of aggro MUs which is helpful.
- I love the idea of 2 for 1 and that's why I play 4of both Cryptic Command and K.Command in addition to 2x Nicol Bolas.
- Playing Opt instead of other cantrips because most of my deck operates on instant speed therefore Opt helps me keep my mana up.
I wouldnt say dead.. taming wurmcoil or karn for a random card isnt worthless.
Alsp not sure how you guys arent just playing 4 leyline of the void side right now. It should be standard in this format. Especially with ways to discars extras
I think that's only looking at best case scenarios. Spirits is by far the aggressor in the matchup so our role is to just survive the early onslaught and drag the game out as long as possible where our card advantage and 2 for 1s will pull us ahead. Tapping out for a 2/2 that can't block their creatures in an effort to try to colour screw them or keep them off coco seems extremely risky and the payoff isn't that great either. They can just as easily ignore it completely. Cards like brutality are much more in line with what we're looking to interact with in the matchup; their creatures and their Coco's
I've been off grixis for a short while now, but I messed around with Nicol Bolas and afterwards Crackling Drake a bit.
I think both cards are great additions, and Drake is definitely the more powerful card. The most crucial element of these cards is not the card advantage they give, but the fact they are flyers with 4 toughness - that's a huge deal. Nicol Bolas was kind of awkward though, because so many modern decks don't even mind discarding cards and operate well with very few resources. Against decks like Humans I usually was able to cast Bolas only after they had already emptied their hand! For these reasons Drake's ETB gets the nod from me. Also, Drake is actually a brutal clock, whereas the flip ability of Bolas should never ever come up in a competitive modern game.
I've had the flip ability of bolas come up more frequently than you would think, for example when flooded or against multiple ensnaring bridges. In addition drake is much more difficult to cast.
I believe it's a personal preference thing, I much prefer Bolas to help run the opponent out of gas.
I am building from Grixis Delver into this currently and would like to have some additional input.
Only played against against Jund,Merfolk,Death Shadow,Dredge,Rock with it so far (several times against each though ,except for Drege).Maybe you guys see some issues with it, which I may not see ?
Out of the matches during the past weeks, I won each aside from the Dredge one where I had to Mulligan to 5 first round .Got a draw after the second round due to time out.
I like Kalitas,Traitor of Ghet main due to a lot of aggro decks locally and as some minor grave hate against stuff like Dredge.
I am also quite happy with Ionize which I originally used as a placeholder for Cryptic Commands.The single U for an unconditional hard counter is quite nice.
I haven't cast Pia and Kiran Nalaar and am on the fence if I switch it with the 2nd Engineered Explosives from the sideboard.
I use Molten Rain as a substitute for Fulminator Mage at the moment.I used 3 copies of Blood Moon in their place before, but I feel better with actual land destruction at the moment.
Should I "upgrade" the Molten Rain to Fulminator Mages first?Or rather play more Cryptics?
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4 Crackling Drake
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spells: 28
4 Kolaghan’s Command
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Terminate
2 Electrolyze
2 Collective Brutality
2 Logic Knot
2 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Snare
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Steam Vents
2 Blood Crypt
2 Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Unmoored Ego
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Countersquall
2 Dispel
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Collective Brutality
4 Drake may not be correct but I figured I should jam the set to get a feel for how good it is. I could also see Cryptic Command being necessary, I just didn’t want to gum up the 4 mana slot. The sideboard is nothing crazy. Surgical Extraction has a not so obvious use in this deck as a pseudo pump spell as you can surgical one of your own spells to grow your Drake.
What do people think of Crackling Drake?
That's certainly one card I find very interesting, and I agree with you that drawing one is better than making your opponent discard one. 4 might not be the best number though, maybe 2 as a finisher would be better, drake's main problem is the restrictive manacost.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Very much this. Getting UURR is way harder than 1UBR and the more discard you have in the deck the more you're incentivized to get black early. Combine that with field of ruin making things awkward it can be pretty difficult to cast on curve. It does work amazingly with the scour package and can close games fast, I'll give it that. I've yet to test it myself, even though I'm the one that tests that sorta thing rigorously in these parts. Most of my time lately has been spent testing standard so I haven't gotten much time on other grixis variants, but I'm 100% going to give this one an honest run through and see how it fares.
The real question will be how good is the closing speed vs not having a late game cruel ultimatum split card. Can you kill fast enough in a game where you would normally flip bolas? After that it becomes assuming you can 100% always cast it on curve, does the restrictive cost cause more trouble than it's worth? A four power flier is already great with bolas, but how consistently will it be something like a seven power monster?
He's a great mid game beater and if for some reason you are comfortable flipping him then you're probably about to win.
"Reveal a Dragon"
I believe that I've been the main proponent of including bolas in grixis so I'll give you the quick TL;DR of my experiences with it. I have been extremely happy with him in my grixis list, even though he started out as just a meme, and have been on two copies for a long time. The way you need to approach thinking of him is as a split card. Part 4/4 wall with a promised 2-for-1 and part cruel ultimatum. Don't think of either part as the primary reason to play him, it's the sum of the parts that makes him quite good. I like that he is a good play on turn four and turn fifteen with the latter being an "I win" button incredibly often. Even against decks like humans, UW or even storm the flip ability is relevant and will win you the game every time in my experience.
You do need to build your deck a touch differently like having some discard to see if tapping out is ok and you can lean on things like AV more since you have a mana dump in case you flood out. All in all he is a great win con and works very well with our plan of whittling down the opponent's hand with snap Kommand and other discard effects perfectly.
Thanks for the great response! Any way I could see your list including him?
Here's where I'm at currently. The SB is entirely based on what I expect to play against locally so it would have a few tweaks to a large and open field.
2 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Vendilion Clique
Removal
1 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Dreadbore
Permission
3 Thought Erasure
3 Cryptic Command
2 Logic Knot
1 Spell Snare
4 Ancestral Vision
Mana
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Field of Ruin
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
3 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Fulminator Mage
2 Negate
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Unmoored Ego
1 Vendilion Clique
I am just getting back into Grixis Control and i will take it to FNM tonight. Here's the list i am going to run:
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
2 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar-Pit
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Drowned Catacombs
2 Field of Ruin
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the golden Fang
2 Crackling Drake
1 Goblin Dark Dwellers
3 Cryptic Command
2 Logic Knot
1 Countersquall
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
2 Fatal Push
2 Thoughtscour
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Damnation
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Collective Brutality
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Dispel
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Countersquall
Goblin Dark Dwellers may be too durdely but my meta is mainly Control and Burn and i think getting a decent body and a removal for free with it is decent against the decks. Against Control flashing back Ancestral sounds nice aswell.
Crackling Drake may be a bit hard to cast but with Thoughtscours it sounds really appealing to me. Additionally it does not get worse with Delve or Snapcaster which is a huge argument for it in my opinion. I have thought about cutting the Drowned Catacomb for a Sulfur Falls to make it easier to cast.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
This is my 60 card list and I'm looking to know if anyone has any input or critique about it.
2 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4 Snapcaster Mage
//Instant (25)
1 Countersquall
4 Cryptic Command
2 Fatal Push
4 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Logic Knot
4 Opt
2 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
2 Search for Azcanta
//Planeswalker (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Sorcery (2)
2 Collective Brutality
//Land (23)
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Field of Ruin
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
Notes about some card choices:
- Collective Brutality is the main because I want to protect myself against aggro with life gain plus the card is very versatile outside of aggro MUs which is helpful.
- I love the idea of 2 for 1 and that's why I play 4of both Cryptic Command and K.Command in addition to 2x Nicol Bolas.
- Playing Opt instead of other cantrips because most of my deck operates on instant speed therefore Opt helps me keep my mana up.
I'd appreciate any insight.
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
GUSimic MerfolkUG
WUUW ControlUW
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
BUUB MillUB
Colorless Eldrazi Tron
WRBurnRW
GUSimic MerfolkUG
UMono U TurnsU
WGGenesis Wave EnchantressGW
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
GUSimic MerfolkUG
WUUW ControlUW
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
BUUB MillUB
Colorless Eldrazi Tron
WRBurnRW
GUSimic MerfolkUG
UMono U TurnsU
WGGenesis Wave EnchantressGW
Alsp not sure how you guys arent just playing 4 leyline of the void side right now. It should be standard in this format. Especially with ways to discars extras
Not if they play a Vial, which balances out the land loss for them.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I think both cards are great additions, and Drake is definitely the more powerful card. The most crucial element of these cards is not the card advantage they give, but the fact they are flyers with 4 toughness - that's a huge deal. Nicol Bolas was kind of awkward though, because so many modern decks don't even mind discarding cards and operate well with very few resources. Against decks like Humans I usually was able to cast Bolas only after they had already emptied their hand! For these reasons Drake's ETB gets the nod from me. Also, Drake is actually a brutal clock, whereas the flip ability of Bolas should never ever come up in a competitive modern game.
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I believe it's a personal preference thing, I much prefer Bolas to help run the opponent out of gas.
Only played against against Jund,Merfolk,Death Shadow,Dredge,Rock with it so far (several times against each though ,except for Drege).Maybe you guys see some issues with it, which I may not see ?
Out of the matches during the past weeks, I won each aside from the Dredge one where I had to Mulligan to 5 first round .Got a draw after the second round due to time out.
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Kalitas,Traitor of Ghet
2 Tasigur,the Golden Fang
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Terminate
4 Kolaghan's Command
2 Ionize
2 Cryptic Command
4 Serum Visions
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
Artifacts
1 Engineered Explosives
Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stean Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Darkslick Shore
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Damnation
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Nimble Obstructionist
2 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Molten Rain
2 Countersquall
I like Kalitas,Traitor of Ghet main due to a lot of aggro decks locally and as some minor grave hate against stuff like Dredge.
I am also quite happy with Ionize which I originally used as a placeholder for Cryptic Commands.The single U for an unconditional hard counter is quite nice.
I haven't cast Pia and Kiran Nalaar and am on the fence if I switch it with the 2nd Engineered Explosives from the sideboard.
I use Molten Rain as a substitute for Fulminator Mage at the moment.I used 3 copies of Blood Moon in their place before, but I feel better with actual land destruction at the moment.
Should I "upgrade" the Molten Rain to Fulminator Mages first?Or rather play more Cryptics?