I'm just about to put this deck together and I was just wondering why people play Young Pyromancer instead of Goblin Rabblemaster? It seems to me that YP would be not as good of a late game topdeck as Rabblemaster, especially against other control decks. Not to mention the super fast clock it presents if you play it early. Also, Rabblemaster is slightly harder to remove with Fatal Push.
I'm just about to put this deck together and I was just wondering why people play Young Pyromancer instead of Goblin Rabblemaster? It seems to me that YP would be not as good of a late game topdeck as Rabblemaster, especially against other control decks. Not to mention the super fast clock it presents if you play it early. Also, Rabblemaster is slightly harder to remove with Fatal Push.
The tokens generated by pyro are able to block every turn while the rabblemaster prevents that. Also a resolved pyro lets you guarantee some value with a follow up spell always generating a token and the goblin can be killed before you get to your attack step. They also fill different roles as well. Rabblemaster is a fast clock for combo matches while pyro is a defensive option that can become a strong clock. All in all pyro is more versatile with how our deck is constructed, but you can lean on the goblin if your only concern is having a fast clock when facing little to no removal.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Hey hey! I ended up running grixis control in the recent scg modern classic and ended up with a very close miss on the top 8 that I'd like to talk about. As per usual, here's the list I registered for you to reference and I'll go over the oddities in my list towards the end.
Now that the list is out of the way here is how the rounds shook out for me.
R1: Lantern 0-2
This was a fairly standard affair of a dozen plus turns of not doing anything of significance until they are dead on board with a bridge protecting them. Unfortunately for me on the critical turn both games I was a single mana short of being able to play a final draw spell such as Clique on myself or scour on them to clear the bridge for a single turn to attack for lethal. Regardless, both games were very enjoyable to play and it's hard to say if I played correctly each game.
R2: Abzan Counters Company 2-0
Game one they assemble a formidible board with finks, vizier, shalai, birds, noble, and E.witt while my hand was choked with cryptics and Kommands. I struggled in the early turns to convert the various commands into a meaningful point of interaction and their board kept developing each turn. Luckily a tasigur next to Jace, AoT were able to hold the ground and prevent some massive attacks while they were gaining 2 life a turn with chump attacks from the finks. They soon hit six mana to start activating shalai in combat and turn everything sideways. I flash in a Clique to block shalai, flash in a snap to trade with vizier, and trade tasigur with half of the finks. Snappy flashes back a bolt to finish off shalai which lets me untap and dump my hand of Kommand, terminate, and push to clear their board and re-buy tasigur and start the Jace minus train to an easy victory.
Game two they have a very long game oriented hand with finks, ballista, double E.witt chord and coco. I Iok and Snap IoK early on the witness and chord, logic knot the second witness and snap knot their coco then clean up with terminate plus Kommand on the finks. They rebuild with a noble and ballista on 2 which I anger away and follow up with a tasigur. They main phase a coco with some solid hits and I draw a damnation. I decide to slow play it and start activating tasigur to get some goodies back until they commit a bit more and then blow everything up. I stick an azcanta shortly after and the game is academic from there as I walk in the victory with a tarpit and a lone snapcaster.
R3: Burn 2-1
Another match where every game goes exactly according to the script that has been written throughout history. First game I get clowned by double swiftspear on the play with double lava spike into eidolon. I am vaporized in a mere two minutes. Game two I'm on the play with a turn 2 tasigur and on turn 3 I fully escalate brutality killing a guide and snagging a helix. They don't have a path for the grixis goyf and I take it down with ease due to my "nut draw." Game 3 they mull to 6 and I get to IoK a charm and snap IoK another burn spell and brick wall a goblin guide. Clique and tasigur show up shortly after to team up with my tarpit and they weren't able to draw enough charms to race me.
R4: RG Ponza 2-1
Oh look. The 0% victory 100% misery match up. Huzzah. Game one they have the play and double stone rain me on turns 2 and 3 with moon on 4 followed up with a couple random 4 drop monsters. I luckily drew my basic swamp and was able to fight back a little with terminates and snap bolts, but a thragtusk shuts the door right in my face the moment I get hopeful about a comeback.
Next game they get a turn 3 trinisphere and I have a bit of an internal giggle at how ineffective the card is. They deploy some midrange threats that I 1-for-1 with removal and a logic knot and stick a Clique to start pecking away at their life total. They get off a pair of mid game stone rain effects, but by then I have enough lands to operate and without a moon to break me it isn't enough and the 3/1 flyer takes it down.
Final game they snap keep their opening 7 on the play. I mull to 6. I mull to 5. I see a hand of island, island, steam vents, logic knot, and explosives. I have to keep and scry seeing a blood crypt on the top and start to think about how I can possibly win this game. What sequence of events needs to happen for me to beat a stellar 7 cards from the opponent on the play, no matter how unlikely. Crypt gives me black for the EE to clear a moon, but on the draw I'm not going to get there before blood moon "interacts with me" and stops me from taking a game action. I decide that the only way I can win is if I find threats and can use the EE and knot to keep myself alive and pray that the 2 islands are all I need to function and that they don't get destroyed.
I bottom the crypt and they open with sprawl into stone rain your steam vents. I draw a tar pit and get blood mooned the next turn. They BBE into ooze and I use EE to clear the ooze and knot their follow up chameleon colossus. They follow up with a tracker into forest while I draw a click and a terminate over this time. I decide that I can't click them because there is no way I can beat anything good without a swamp for the terminate. Since there is only 1 swamp in the deck my best chance to win is to click myself and not trade my clique with the tracker.
I cycle my terminate into a watery grave and start racing. I clear the tracker with a bolt and they BBE into another ooze and I draw the one card I knew I had to find since turn 0 of this game to have a shot at the win, Pia and Kiran Nalaar. I smile as I see the blood moon on the other side of the table and tap 2 islands and 2 UB duals to cast mom and dad with a pair of tarns next to them. As I put my tokens into play my opponent also looks at their moon and slumps into their chair.
They know full well that the blood moon is what caused this situation to turn from a win for them into a loss. Life totals being what they are, their only out was a resolved tragtusk. We take turns attacking past each other and on the final turn I throw my thopters at them to put them to -1 with me being dead to their attack on the following turn. I was so very tempted to mimic the 'Cloudthresher beats faeries' story by spouting off "...and they say blood moon beats grixis control. Lul. LUL!"
Play to your outs, get rewarded. FeelsGreatMan!
R5: Mardu Pyro 2-0
Apparently this player drove to the event with the lantern opponent I had in round 1, but they thought I was on grixis death's shadow and not control. They keep a 1 land have stuffed to the gills with pushes, dreadbores, and an IoK. I get the play and IoK theirs and they miss a land drop for 3 turns and they were never really in it with zero live cards in hand. Game 2 I stick a jace and minus which eats a Kommand shock/discard and then they fire off another shock/discard at my face. This screams to me that they have a reveler which I have a knot for so I play accordingly.
I start using snaps on thought scours to incentivize them to start committing to the board and tag the reveler with my counterspell. Several turns pass with them durdling with looting and me doing my thing of land go and flashing back think twice while chipping away. I eventually Kommand back a scoured tasigur and start to really pressure them. I counter their first 2 removal spells and they stick a reveler this time pitching a souls which I get to surgical. But with them being so low on life I'm able to take down the last few points of life with a tar pit and a cryptic tap draw.
R6: GW Value Town 2-0
Another game where the extra card draw of jace and think twice helped push me across the finish line. Things start off relatively scripted with noble into bolt, knight into terminate, coco into cryptic and courser plus tracker into Kommand plus snap terminate. Uneventful first several turns of the game and we continue the threat/answer dance for several turns while I start to flood out. I scour into a think twice and manage to keep pace but they keep drawing gas and I struggle to find a threat or an engine. Finally I stick a jace and go to town by finding a Kommand and emptying their hand to clear a path for tasigur to bring it home. I win the first game on turn 20-something with only 3 cards remaining in my library.
The next game is similar to the first but ends up much more nerve wracking. They open with a flood of value dorks and start getting ahead while I start to take a bunch of hits before managing to clear the board at a meager 6 life. They have been pecking away with a single lotus cobra and cast a noble. We both share a laugh as it is a very relevant card on turn 15 as it takes a full turn off the clock. I have only a single logic knot in hand and I have to spend it here to give myself an extra draw step and I delve an enormous amount of spells from my yard in anticipation of finding a tasigur. I pick up a jace and plus to slow the beats further while they horizon canopy into a courser and get a free land off the top. I minus into a think twice that finds a bolt and flash back think twice which peels a terminate.
They end step a coco into knight plus a naked renegade rallier to clear the jace and take the last terminate from my hand leaving me at a precarious life total. I top deck a snapcaster and snap Kommand in the draw step to rebuy another snap. I do this for a second time and get back a tasigur which quickly refills my hand with action thanks to my 13 lands in play. With a grip full of known answers, they scoop when I cryptic their top deck'd coco.
R7: Hallow One 0-2
By far the most disappointing match of the day. Game one they're on the play and I die on turn 3 before Kommand could clear a hollow one and an adept. Game two I clear their giant monsters and anger away 4 of their sticky threats just before they blood moon me and hard cast a hollow one. I never drew a basic or a fetch land and I just fall over dead for top 8.
Had I not been gibbed by hollow one and managed to win that round instead, I could have ID'd the last round into the top 8 which was a big letdown considering how much of a nongame it was. After that depressing loss I decided to drop from the event to try and beat rush hour traffic on the highway I was taking home to shorten my drive by two hours. Found out when I got home there was a wreck on the road that happened shortly before I got back so I sure dodged a bullet with that decision. In any case, here are some thoughts for you to mull over with the non-standard choices I've made and how they preformed both in the event itself and in testing.
2 Vendilion Clique MD - Clique was great all day and has been for some time. There have been many games that I needed a threat to close out because I had fallen behind or needed the extra bit of hand disruption early on or perhaps drew the wrong half of my deck in the match. They're abysmal against mardu pyro for sure, but everywhere else they always do something and that "something" tends to be important.
2 Inquisition of Kozilek MD - These are replacing the typical countersquall and extra spell snare slots and I have been very happy with them. They aren't as good as snare against snapcaster decks, but they are still good there and we are already a favorite so the slight percentage loss isn't very pronounced. They act mostly as a way to clear early value spells that demand a counterspell like tireless tracker, blood moon, pyromancer, and the information itself is invaluable.
It also gives you the IoK-Snap-IoK-Cryptic openers which are absolutely amazing and makes it incredibly difficult for most decks to enforce their will before your mana and draw engines have been set up. Even though they're not that great on turn 19, they can still clear the way for a tasigur to end the game so they are still useful once we get to where we want to be. I highly recommend running some number of discard right now, but thoughtseize I found to be much too painful to be included as much as I wish I could register them.
2 Think Twice MD - I've always said that you can't rely on just 2 search for azcanta as your draw engine and I still stand by that claim. People run field of ruin, they blood moon, they molten rain, they cast rest in peace and so on. These mopey draw spells really help push you over the line in a resource battle when search isn't able to stick around and I was very happy to have them paired with thought scours to occasionally get some added value. Obviously they're embarrassing against burn, but so is every draw spell when your opponent doesn't care about going past turn 5. In the past I have run Glimmer of Genius and was very impressed with how well it performed, but I wanted something that I could do earlier on and didn't want to have even more 4 drops in the deck. It works with snapcaster and is a very powerful play considering what you are drawing into, but currently I'm leaning towards cheaper spells for my raw card draw.
0 Serum Visions MD - I'll always miss serum because of the great consistency it adds, but I don't feel like we can afford the full on Turbo XeroX play style in modern right now. This meant I had to choose one cantrip or the other and scour had more value when you add in think twice. I tried playing just 2 copies in addition to some number of scours, but there wasn't enough card advantage to keep me ahead once I stabilize to warrant the inclusion.
3 Cryptic Command and 3 Kolaghan's Command - I've tried the 8 command version of grixis in the past and every time I hated it. There are just far too many games and entire match ups where they are too clunky for you to convert into a meaningful advantage. You don't always have worthwhile targets for Kommand and aren't always able to hold open 4 mana to drop a cryptic in a meaningful fashion. Because of that I trimmed down a copy of each in favor of other forms of advantage that are easier to translate into a favorable position and have been extremely satisfied with the change.
1 Anger of the Gods MD - Without path to exile we need some kind of exile effect, especially with hollow one being such a high variance match. I've enjoyed having a sweeper in the main before, and today the creature decks tend to be going very wide and this is a great tool to have in the first game. For a while I was running two copies main and zero in the side, but I wanted to diversify my spells a bit more to make the snaps and scours a little bit better. I can easily see two main being the correct route to take due to us lacking Path to Exile, but am unsure of which swap is the best to make it happen.
Jace, Architect of Thought MD - This one partially fills the role of sweeper against go-wide decks and threat plus card draw against slower fair decks. I've been very impressed with how it performs and he colds early lingering souls spam from mardu cleanly while being able to be a draw engine in its own right. Right now I am certain on the inclusion, but in two weeks that could easily change based on how the meta continues to develop.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar SB - A fairly simple and generic mid game threat for when that is desired. It has the upside of being castable through a blood moon and very good against decks that would play it while not being answered cleanly by a lone celestial purge like keranos against jeskai. This slot changes from week to week depending on what fair deck you expect the most and currently I want the promised value from mom and dad.
Alpine Moon SB - This has been a fine "no button" to hit against tron and valakut. I like the one because it shuts them down even when on the draw and can buy enough time for us to set up so that tron either doesn't matter or has been blown up with fields and fulmns. I could take it or leave it to be honest, but as a one of I don't have much data to make any strong claims.
0 Dispel SB - I chose to go with more versatile counters that are always good against the big mana decks as I feel that the matches where dispel is good so are negate/stroke (aside from burn) where I don't need the extra help. This is a point I feel strongly about as half the decks where you want to load up on permission are heavily in our favor and the other half are very bad for us so I want to ensure that 100% my permission is live when I need the help.
2 Damnation + 1 Anger of the Gods SB - My list is far more heavy on wrath effects than ones I have seen for a while. Much like my comments on Jace, AoT, the creature decks tend to be going quite wide and you can't always keep pace in the early turns with spot removal. Post board the mantra has always been "make sure your hate cards are Powerful" and a playset of wraths is exactly that. With a large portion of the field being decks that dump a handful of dorks into play for one reason or another, being able to ensure that you find an early sweeper is how you should be boarding. It also lets you ensure that you won't have to leave in any permission against the vial/cavern decks or other creature decks where permission is embarrassing and just pray you get a target for them.
3 Field of ruin + 1 Spirebluff Canal - Another uncommon choice for the lands and this one I found to be partially incorrect. It was a calculated risk on my part and a conscious choice to do so which was a less tested (or less noticed) aspect of my list going into the event. I'll be sticking with 24 total lands however and change the third field back into a UR dual to help facilitate anger of the gods on curve ever so slightly. I do like the fast land to help alleviate your fetch/shock tendencies early on, but I'm not sure how many fast lands I would be comfortable having in total.
Moving forward I'm going to be running the following list and trying to find room for an extra think twice to total 2 copies in the deck or consider a third search for azcanta over the one think twice I currently have. Here is what I am currently fiddling with:
I absolutely want 2 cliques in the 75 somewhere and prefer some in the main because of their perpetual usefulness and flexibility. I'm also happy with the total number of draw spells, but the configuration does determine the amount that I want. I'm back on 3 tasigur because the games where you have one before the late game and when you don't are like night and day when you compare how easily you can leverage your commands and close out the game. He also fills the role of a draw engine which the deck wants, especially with knots to help curate the yard.
I have played a number of games with Nicol Bolas, the Ravager and I have been impressed with him, especially with a pair of IoK in the deck. He really helps you do a number on your opponents hand and whittle them down to nothing. It is also a late game "I Win" card that also helps by blocking early beats in fair matches and brick walls lingering souls tokens. Unfortunately I don't own any and the price tag is why I haven't tried them in a competitive setting. I'll be fooling around more with him in the list and I am hopeful, but I really can't say for sure if he is a worthy inclusion or not. What I can say on that subject however is that it is a strong enough card that it is worth thoroughly testing as opposed to just speculating on paper without a good amount of games being played.
The creature split that I am most interested in testing to include bloas is as follows:
I hope you enjoyed reading through my thoughts on the archetype and am curious what your thoughts are on bolas for those who have actually played a number of games with him. How does everyone feel about the heavy cantrip versions of grixis against the field? Do you just yolo against blood moon decks and hope to dodge it resolving? Has anybody else enjoyed some amount of discard in the main deck? Are there any players that have liked Alpine Moon as a sideboard card that have in game experience with it?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Hey hey! I ended up running grixis control in the recent scg modern classic and ended up with a very close miss on the top 8 that I'd like to talk about. As per usual, here's the list I registered for you to reference and I'll go over the oddities in my list towards the end.
Now that the list is out of the way here is how the rounds shook out for me.
R1: Lantern 0-2
This was a fairly standard affair of a dozen plus turns of not doing anything of significance until they are dead on board with a bridge protecting them. Unfortunately for me on the critical turn both games I was a single mana short of being able to play a final draw spell such as Clique on myself or scour on them to clear the bridge for a single turn to attack for lethal. Regardless, both games were very enjoyable to play and it's hard to say if I played correctly each game.
R2: Abzan Counters Company 2-0
Game one they assemble a formidible board with finks, vizier, shalai, birds, noble, and E.witt while my hand was choked with cryptics and Kommands. I struggled in the early turns to convert the various commands into a meaningful point of interaction and their board kept developing each turn. Luckily a tasigur next to Jace, AoT were able to hold the ground and prevent some massive attacks while they were gaining 2 life a turn with chump attacks from the finks. They soon hit six mana to start activating shalai in combat and turn everything sideways. I flash in a Clique to block shalai, flash in a snap to trade with vizier, and trade tasigur with half of the finks. Snappy flashes back a bolt to finish off shalai which lets me untap and dump my hand of Kommand, terminate, and push to clear their board and re-buy tasigur and start the Jace minus train to an easy victory.
Game two they have a very long game oriented hand with finks, ballista, double E.witt chord and coco. I Iok and Snap IoK early on the witness and chord, logic knot the second witness and snap knot their coco then clean up with terminate plus Kommand on the finks. They rebuild with a noble and ballista on 2 which I anger away and follow up with a tasigur. They main phase a coco with some solid hits and I draw a damnation. I decide to slow play it and start activating tasigur to get some goodies back until they commit a bit more and then blow everything up. I stick an azcanta shortly after and the game is academic from there as I walk in the victory with a tarpit and a lone snapcaster.
R3: Burn 2-1
Another match where every game goes exactly according to the script that has been written throughout history. First game I get clowned by double swiftspear on the play with double lava spike into eidolon. I am vaporized in a mere two minutes. Game two I'm on the play with a turn 2 tasigur and on turn 3 I fully escalate brutality killing a guide and snagging a helix. They don't have a path for the grixis goyf and I take it down with ease due to my "nut draw." Game 3 they mull to 6 and I get to IoK a charm and snap IoK another burn spell and brick wall a goblin guide. Clique and tasigur show up shortly after to team up with my tarpit and they weren't able to draw enough charms to race me.
R4: RG Ponza 2-1
Oh look. The 0% victory 100% misery match up. Huzzah. Game one they have the play and double stone rain me on turns 2 and 3 with moon on 4 followed up with a couple random 4 drop monsters. I luckily drew my basic swamp and was able to fight back a little with terminates and snap bolts, but a thragtusk shuts the door right in my face the moment I get hopeful about a comeback.
Next game they get a turn 3 trinisphere and I have a bit of an internal giggle at how ineffective the card is. They deploy some midrange threats that I 1-for-1 with removal and a logic knot and stick a Clique to start pecking away at their life total. They get off a pair of mid game stone rain effects, but by then I have enough lands to operate and without a moon to break me it isn't enough and the 3/1 flyer takes it down.
Final game they snap keep their opening 7 on the play. I mull to 6. I mull to 5. I see a hand of island, island, steam vents, logic knot, and explosives. I have to keep and scry seeing a blood crypt on the top and start to think about how I can possibly win this game. What sequence of events needs to happen for me to beat a stellar 7 cards from the opponent on the play, no matter how unlikely. Crypt gives me black for the EE to clear a moon, but on the draw I'm not going to get there before blood moon "interacts with me" and stops me from taking a game action. I decide that the only way I can win is if I find threats and can use the EE and knot to keep myself alive and pray that the 2 islands are all I need to function and that they don't get destroyed.
I bottom the crypt and they open with sprawl into stone rain your steam vents. I draw a tar pit and get blood mooned the next turn. They BBE into ooze and I use EE to clear the ooze and knot their follow up chameleon colossus. They follow up with a tracker into forest while I draw a click and a terminate over this time. I decide that I can't click them because there is no way I can beat anything good without a swamp for the terminate. Since there is only 1 swamp in the deck my best chance to win is to click myself and not trade my clique with the tracker.
I cycle my terminate into a watery grave and start racing. I clear the tracker with a bolt and they BBE into another ooze and I draw the one card I knew I had to find since turn 0 of this game to have a shot at the win, Pia and Kiran Nalaar. I smile as I see the blood moon on the other side of the table and tap 2 islands and 2 UB duals to cast mom and dad with a pair of tarns next to them. As I put my tokens into play my opponent also looks at their moon and slumps into their chair.
They know full well that the blood moon is what caused this situation to turn from a win for them into a loss. Life totals being what they are, their only out was a resolved tragtusk. We take turns attacking past each other and on the final turn I throw my thopters at them to put them to -1 with me being dead to their attack on the following turn. I was so very tempted to mimic the 'Cloudthresher beats faeries' story by spouting off "...and they say blood moon beats grixis control. Lul. LUL!"
Play to your outs, get rewarded. FeelsGreatMan!
R5: Mardu Pyro 2-0
Apparently this player drove to the event with the lantern opponent I had in round 1, but they thought I was on grixis death's shadow and not control. They keep a 1 land have stuffed to the gills with pushes, dreadbores, and an IoK. I get the play and IoK theirs and they miss a land drop for 3 turns and they were never really in it with zero live cards in hand. Game 2 I stick a jace and minus which eats a Kommand shock/discard and then they fire off another shock/discard at my face. This screams to me that they have a reveler which I have a knot for so I play accordingly.
I start using snaps on thought scours to incentivize them to start committing to the board and tag the reveler with my counterspell. Several turns pass with them durdling with looting and me doing my thing of land go and flashing back think twice while chipping away. I eventually Kommand back a scoured tasigur and start to really pressure them. I counter their first 2 removal spells and they stick a reveler this time pitching a souls which I get to surgical. But with them being so low on life I'm able to take down the last few points of life with a tar pit and a cryptic tap draw.
R6: GW Value Town 2-0
Another game where the extra card draw of jace and think twice helped push me across the finish line. Things start off relatively scripted with noble into bolt, knight into terminate, coco into cryptic and courser plus tracker into Kommand plus snap terminate. Uneventful first several turns of the game and we continue the threat/answer dance for several turns while I start to flood out. I scour into a think twice and manage to keep pace but they keep drawing gas and I struggle to find a threat or an engine. Finally I stick a jace and go to town by finding a Kommand and emptying their hand to clear a path for tasigur to bring it home. I win the first game on turn 20-something with only 3 cards remaining in my library.
The next game is similar to the first but ends up much more nerve wracking. They open with a flood of value dorks and start getting ahead while I start to take a bunch of hits before managing to clear the board at a meager 6 life. They have been pecking away with a single lotus cobra and cast a noble. We both share a laugh as it is a very relevant card on turn 15 as it takes a full turn off the clock. I have only a single logic knot in hand and I have to spend it here to give myself an extra draw step and I delve an enormous amount of spells from my yard in anticipation of finding a tasigur. I pick up a jace and plus to slow the beats further while they horizon canopy into a courser and get a free land off the top. I minus into a think twice that finds a bolt and flash back think twice which peels a terminate.
They end step a coco into knight plus a naked renegade rallier to clear the jace and take the last terminate from my hand leaving me at a precarious life total. I top deck a snapcaster and snap Kommand in the draw step to rebuy another snap. I do this for a second time and get back a tasigur which quickly refills my hand with action thanks to my 13 lands in play. With a grip full of known answers, they scoop when I cryptic their top deck'd coco.
R7: Hallow One 0-2
By far the most disappointing match of the day. Game one they're on the play and I die on turn 3 before Kommand could clear a hollow one and an adept. Game two I clear their giant monsters and anger away 4 of their sticky threats just before they blood moon me and hard cast a hollow one. I never drew a basic or a fetch land and I just fall over dead for top 8.
Had I not been gibbed by hollow one and managed to win that round instead, I could have ID'd the last round into the top 8 which was a big letdown considering how much of a nongame it was. After that depressing loss I decided to drop from the event to try and beat rush hour traffic on the highway I was taking home to shorten my drive by two hours. Found out when I got home there was a wreck on the road that happened shortly before I got back so I sure dodged a bullet with that decision. In any case, here are some thoughts for you to mull over with the non-standard choices I've made and how they preformed both in the event itself and in testing.
2 Vendilion Clique MD - Clique was great all day and has been for some time. There have been many games that I needed a threat to close out because I had fallen behind or needed the extra bit of hand disruption early on or perhaps drew the wrong half of my deck in the match. They're abysmal against mardu pyro for sure, but everywhere else they always do something and that "something" tends to be important.
2 Inquisition of Kozilek MD - These are replacing the typical countersquall and extra spell snare slots and I have been very happy with them. They aren't as good as snare against snapcaster decks, but they are still good there and we are already a favorite so the slight percentage loss isn't very pronounced. They act mostly as a way to clear early value spells that demand a counterspell like tireless tracker, blood moon, pyromancer, and the information itself is invaluable.
It also gives you the IoK-Snap-IoK-Cryptic openers which are absolutely amazing and makes it incredibly difficult for most decks to enforce their will before your mana and draw engines have been set up. Even though they're not that great on turn 19, they can still clear the way for a tasigur to end the game so they are still useful once we get to where we want to be. I highly recommend running some number of discard right now, but thoughtseize I found to be much too painful to be included as much as I wish I could register them.
2 Think Twice MD - I've always said that you can't rely on just 2 search for azcanta as your draw engine and I still stand by that claim. People run field of ruin, they blood moon, they molten rain, they cast rest in peace and so on. These mopey draw spells really help push you over the line in a resource battle when search isn't able to stick around and I was very happy to have them paired with thought scours to occasionally get some added value. Obviously they're embarrassing against burn, but so is every draw spell when your opponent doesn't care about going past turn 5. In the past I have run Glimmer of Genius and was very impressed with how well it performed, but I wanted something that I could do earlier on and didn't want to have even more 4 drops in the deck. It works with snapcaster and is a very powerful play considering what you are drawing into, but currently I'm leaning towards cheaper spells for my raw card draw.
0 Serum Visions MD - I'll always miss serum because of the great consistency it adds, but I don't feel like we can afford the full on Turbo XeroX play style in modern right now. This meant I had to choose one cantrip or the other and scour had more value when you add in think twice. I tried playing just 2 copies in addition to some number of scours, but there wasn't enough card advantage to keep me ahead once I stabilize to warrant the inclusion.
3 Cryptic Command and 3 Kolaghan's Command - I've tried the 8 command version of grixis in the past and every time I hated it. There are just far too many games and entire match ups where they are too clunky for you to convert into a meaningful advantage. You don't always have worthwhile targets for Kommand and aren't always able to hold open 4 mana to drop a cryptic in a meaningful fashion. Because of that I trimmed down a copy of each in favor of other forms of advantage that are easier to translate into a favorable position and have been extremely satisfied with the change.
1 Anger of the Gods MD - Without path to exile we need some kind of exile effect, especially with hollow one being such a high variance match. I've enjoyed having a sweeper in the main before, and today the creature decks tend to be going very wide and this is a great tool to have in the first game. For a while I was running two copies main and zero in the side, but I wanted to diversify my spells a bit more to make the snaps and scours a little bit better. I can easily see two main being the correct route to take due to us lacking Path to Exile, but am unsure of which swap is the best to make it happen.
Jace, Architect of Thought MD - This one partially fills the role of sweeper against go-wide decks and threat plus card draw against slower fair decks. I've been very impressed with how it performs and he colds early lingering souls spam from mardu cleanly while being able to be a draw engine in its own right. Right now I am certain on the inclusion, but in two weeks that could easily change based on how the meta continues to develop.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar SB - A fairly simple and generic mid game threat for when that is desired. It has the upside of being castable through a blood moon and very good against decks that would play it while not being answered cleanly by a lone celestial purge like keranos against jeskai. This slot changes from week to week depending on what fair deck you expect the most and currently I want the promised value from mom and dad.
Alpine Moon SB - This has been a fine "no button" to hit against tron and valakut. I like the one because it shuts them down even when on the draw and can buy enough time for us to set up so that tron either doesn't matter or has been blown up with fields and fulmns. I could take it or leave it to be honest, but as a one of I don't have much data to make any strong claims.
0 Dispel SB - I chose to go with more versatile counters that are always good against the big mana decks as I feel that the matches where dispel is good so are negate/stroke (aside from burn) where I don't need the extra help. This is a point I feel strongly about as half the decks where you want to load up on permission are heavily in our favor and the other half are very bad for us so I want to ensure that 100% my permission is live when I need the help.
2 Damnation + 1 Anger of the Gods SB - My list is far more heavy on wrath effects than ones I have seen for a while. Much like my comments on Jace, AoT, the creature decks tend to be going quite wide and you can't always keep pace in the early turns with spot removal. Post board the mantra has always been "make sure your hate cards are Powerful" and a playset of wraths is exactly that. With a large portion of the field being decks that dump a handful of dorks into play for one reason or another, being able to ensure that you find an early sweeper is how you should be boarding. It also lets you ensure that you won't have to leave in any permission against the vial/cavern decks or other creature decks where permission is embarrassing and just pray you get a target for them.
3 Field of ruin + 1 Spirebluff Canal - Another uncommon choice for the lands and this one I found to be partially incorrect. It was a calculated risk on my part and a conscious choice to do so which was a less tested (or less noticed) aspect of my list going into the event. I'll be sticking with 24 total lands however and change the third field back into a UR dual to help facilitate anger of the gods on curve ever so slightly. I do like the fast land to help alleviate your fetch/shock tendencies early on, but I'm not sure how many fast lands I would be comfortable having in total.
Moving forward I'm going to be running the following list and trying to find room for an extra think twice to total 2 copies in the deck or consider a third search for azcanta over the one think twice I currently have. Here is what I am currently fiddling with:
I absolutely want 2 cliques in the 75 somewhere and prefer some in the main because of their perpetual usefulness and flexibility. I'm also happy with the total number of draw spells, but the configuration does determine the amount that I want. I'm back on 3 tasigur because the games where you have one before the late game and when you don't are like night and day when you compare how easily you can leverage your commands and close out the game. He also fills the role of a draw engine which the deck wants, especially with knots to help curate the yard.
I have played a number of games with Nicol Bolas, the Ravager and I have been impressed with him, especially with a pair of IoK in the deck. He really helps you do a number on your opponents hand and whittle them down to nothing. It is also a late game "I Win" card that also helps by blocking early beats in fair matches and brick walls lingering souls tokens. Unfortunately I don't own any and the price tag is why I haven't tried them in a competitive setting. I'll be fooling around more with him in the list and I am hopeful, but I really can't say for sure if he is a worthy inclusion or not. What I can say on that subject however is that it is a strong enough card that it is worth thoroughly testing as opposed to just speculating on paper without a good amount of games being played.
The creature split that I am most interested in testing to include bloas is as follows:
I hope you enjoyed reading through my thoughts on the archetype and am curious what your thoughts are on bolas for those who have actually played a number of games with him. How does everyone feel about the heavy cantrip versions of grixis against the field? Do you just yolo against blood moon decks and hope to dodge it resolving? Has anybody else enjoyed some amount of discard in the main deck? Are there any players that have liked Alpine Moon as a sideboard card that have in game experience with it?
Congrats on the finish nonetheless! Great to see fellow Grixis players do well.
I agree with your take on think twice, in the sense that we need the actual draw spells, not just cantrips. though in the past, i've almost always preferred to run remand or shadow of doubt instead of think twice, since im playing 4 snapcasters. But think twice is Wafo Tapa's signature card, there must be a good reason for it.
And i've recently converted to a more standard corey buckhart list recently, dropping opts and increasing the land count to 25 to include 4 field of ruins, I feel that I have enough consistency in the deck anyway, cantrips are really just used for mana fixing early on. but the FoRs on the other hand do a lot more than I expect them to, Tron is no longer an auto lose. I also found blood moons a little easier to deal with unless they are dropped on curve, with 4 field of ruins helping me fetch basics alongside 8 on color fetch lands.
On Alpine Moon, I find it a net tempo loss against majority of decks, and against valakut or tron, they are just ancient grudge targets. With 4 FoRs and 2 fulminator mages and pair of surgicals on the side, I don't feel there is a good enough reason to play Alpine Moon.
I play discard spells too but on the side, a pair of duress instead of IoK because with so much removal I'm not worried about opponent's creatures, but none-creature spells, especially enchantments/PWs, those are the real deal. I do sometimes wonder though if i should play IoK instead since it's valuable in more matchups
On Alpine Moon, I find it a net tempo loss against majority of decks, and against valakut or tron, they are just ancient grudge targets. With 4 FoRs and 2 fulminator mages and pair of surgicals on the side, I don't feel there is a good enough reason to play Alpine Moon.
1. Ancient Grudge cannot touch alpine moon.
2. Activating a field of ruin is quite clearly a bigger tempo cost than 1 red mana.
While Moon can indeed be removed, it is noteworthy that it costs 1, and therefore much easier to cast and protect than say, damping sphere or blood moon. I'm also puzzled as to why alpine moon would be criticized as tempo loss when, further down the same paragraph we have Field of Ruin being touted as a reason we don't need moon. I see it the other way; because of Alpine Moon, I don't need to run 4 colorless lands.
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On Alpine Moon, I find it a net tempo loss against majority of decks, and against valakut or tron, they are just ancient grudge targets. With 4 FoRs and 2 fulminator mages and pair of surgicals on the side, I don't feel there is a good enough reason to play Alpine Moon.
1. Ancient Grudge cannot touch alpine moon.
2. Activating a field of ruin is quite clearly a bigger tempo cost than 1 red mana.
While Moon can indeed be removed, it is noteworthy that it costs 1, and therefore much easier to cast and protect than say, damping sphere or blood moon. I'm also puzzled as to why alpine moon would be criticized as tempo loss when, further down the same paragraph we have Field of Ruin being touted as a reason we don't need moon. I see it the other way; because of Alpine Moon, I don't need to run 4 colorless lands.
Sorry on the ancient grudge part, but you totally understood what i meant, could be removed. land decks run enchantment removal to neutralize blood moons in the first place.
But I can't agree with you on 2 mana activation cost for FoR is a bigger tempo loss. It's an instant speed effect that does not net you a card disadvantage because it recycles itself, and by doing so it thins your deck, fuels delve spells and azcanta. FoR does not require extra commitment from your original game plan other than stricter fetching decisions in the early turns to compensate for producing colorless mana. FoR's advantage is that it's almost never dead, hits utility lands, man lands, helps colorscrew your opponent, and produces 1 colorless mana at the very least, while fetching you basics for color or to dodge moon. although alpine moon only costs R, you have to draw it in your opening hand to fully take advantage of the low CMC, which means running at least 3 copies of a sub-optimal top-deck.
On Alpine Moon, I find it a net tempo loss against majority of decks, and against valakut or tron, they are just ancient grudge targets. With 4 FoRs and 2 fulminator mages and pair of surgicals on the side, I don't feel there is a good enough reason to play Alpine Moon.
1. Ancient Grudge cannot touch alpine moon.
2. Activating a field of ruin is quite clearly a bigger tempo cost than 1 red mana.
While Moon can indeed be removed, it is noteworthy that it costs 1, and therefore much easier to cast and protect than say, damping sphere or blood moon. I'm also puzzled as to why alpine moon would be criticized as tempo loss when, further down the same paragraph we have Field of Ruin being touted as a reason we don't need moon. I see it the other way; because of Alpine Moon, I don't need to run 4 colorless lands.
Sorry on the ancient grudge part, but you totally understood what i meant, could be removed. land decks run enchantment removal to neutralize blood moons in the first place.
But I can't agree with you on 2 mana activation cost for FoR is a bigger tempo loss. It's an instant speed effect that does not net you a card disadvantage because it recycles itself, and by doing so it thins your deck, fuels delve spells and azcanta. FoR does not require extra commitment from your original game plan other than stricter fetching decisions in the early turns to compensate for producing colorless mana. FoR's advantage is that it's almost never dead, hits utility lands, man lands, helps colorscrew your opponent, and produces 1 colorless mana at the very least, while fetching you basics for color or to dodge moon. although alpine moon only costs R, you have to draw it in your opening hand to fully take advantage of the low CMC, which means running at least 3 copies of a sub-optimal top-deck.
Disagree on many of the points:
1. Tempo: Yes its an instant speed effect, but so what? Has your opponent really done nothing throughout turn 3 that's worth reacting to? Alpine moon isn't instant but it costs one. I can play it turn 1, I can play it turn 2 and hold up Snare/Dispel, I can play it turn 3 and hold up Squall/Leak/Negate.
2. Card Disadvantage: It is an overall 0 for 0, since you trade FoR for the opponent's land and you both tutor a basic. However, tempo wise you are down 2 mana, your opponent is up 1, for a net tempo disadvantage of 3 mana. You pay 1 for Moon, and then they have to overcome the moon or lose.
3. Extra commitment: Its funny that you say no extra commitment is required then go on to list some extra commitments. That Alpine Moon doesn't have. This is something for me to bring up, not you. But while we're talking restrictions, that "stricter" fetching you're talking about is basically fetch and shock, fetch and shock. Its a very real cost against aggressive decks. After all, you have 1UUU and 1BR spells in the deck, meaning when you're up against something like merfolk, humans, 8whack, mardu pyro or zoo, FoR is pure liability. Moon is where such solutions mostly belong - in the sideboard to seriously mess with decks that rely on their lands.
4. Almost never dead: I have 2 FoR in my main. There are plenty of games where they don't do much other than break a manland and fetch me a color. That's not the most impressive thing, considering we have fatal pushes and snaps to work with. Running 4 FoR and a total of 25 lands means you have less spell density and/or a lower threat count. If those 4 lands really mattered most games that would be awesome: but have you really color screwed an opponent? Those would be deck that splash a color but neglect to have a basic of that color. I can think of infect (which has hierarch).
5. Opening hand: Alpine moon doesn't need to be in the opening hand. Per point #1, you can cast it at many points on the curve while having the rest of your mana up for interaction. Unlike FoR, you can get the necessary action done turn 1 and move on to draw go. Last but not least - its not a non-functional topdeck. You can use it against utility and manlands if you draw a spare or draw 1 late, like naming Kessig Wolf-Run if you've already named Valakut, or just switching off manlands.
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On Alpine Moon, I find it a net tempo loss against majority of decks, and against valakut or tron, they are just ancient grudge targets. With 4 FoRs and 2 fulminator mages and pair of surgicals on the side, I don't feel there is a good enough reason to play Alpine Moon.
1. Ancient Grudge cannot touch alpine moon.
2. Activating a field of ruin is quite clearly a bigger tempo cost than 1 red mana.
While Moon can indeed be removed, it is noteworthy that it costs 1, and therefore much easier to cast and protect than say, damping sphere or blood moon. I'm also puzzled as to why alpine moon would be criticized as tempo loss when, further down the same paragraph we have Field of Ruin being touted as a reason we don't need moon. I see it the other way; because of Alpine Moon, I don't need to run 4 colorless lands.
Sorry on the ancient grudge part, but you totally understood what i meant, could be removed. land decks run enchantment removal to neutralize blood moons in the first place.
But I can't agree with you on 2 mana activation cost for FoR is a bigger tempo loss. It's an instant speed effect that does not net you a card disadvantage because it recycles itself, and by doing so it thins your deck, fuels delve spells and azcanta. FoR does not require extra commitment from your original game plan other than stricter fetching decisions in the early turns to compensate for producing colorless mana. FoR's advantage is that it's almost never dead, hits utility lands, man lands, helps colorscrew your opponent, and produces 1 colorless mana at the very least, while fetching you basics for color or to dodge moon. although alpine moon only costs R, you have to draw it in your opening hand to fully take advantage of the low CMC, which means running at least 3 copies of a sub-optimal top-deck.
Disagree on many of the points:
1. Tempo: Yes its an instant speed effect, but so what? Has your opponent really done nothing throughout turn 3 that's worth reacting to? Alpine moon isn't instant but it costs one. I can play it turn 1, I can play it turn 2 and hold up Snare/Dispel, I can play it turn 3 and hold up Squall/Leak/Negate.
2. Card Disadvantage: It is an overall 0 for 0, since you trade FoR for the opponent's land and you both tutor a basic. However, tempo wise you are down 2 mana, your opponent is up 1, for a net tempo disadvantage of 3 mana. You pay 1 for Moon, and then they have to overcome the moon or lose.
3. Extra commitment: Its funny that you say no extra commitment is required then go on to list some extra commitments. That Alpine Moon doesn't have. This is something for me to bring up, not you. But while we're talking restrictions, that "stricter" fetching you're talking about is basically fetch and shock, fetch and shock. Its a very real cost against aggressive decks. After all, you have 1UUU and 1BR spells in the deck, meaning when you're up against something like merfolk, humans, 8whack, mardu pyro or zoo, FoR is pure liability. Moon is where such solutions mostly belong - in the sideboard to seriously mess with decks that rely on their lands.
4. Almost never dead: I have 2 FoR in my main. There are plenty of games where they don't do much other than break a manland and fetch me a color. That's not the most impressive thing, considering we have fatal pushes and snaps to work with. Running 4 FoR and a total of 25 lands means you have less spell density and/or a lower threat count. If those 4 lands really mattered most games that would be awesome: but have you really color screwed an opponent? Those would be deck that splash a color but neglect to have a basic of that color. I can think of infect (which has hierarch).
5. Opening hand: Alpine moon doesn't need to be in the opening hand. Per point #1, you can cast it at many points on the curve while having the rest of your mana up for interaction. Unlike FoR, you can get the necessary action done turn 1 and move on to draw go. Last but not least - its not a non-functional topdeck. You can use it against utility and manlands if you draw a spare or draw 1 late, like naming Kessig Wolf-Run if you've already named Valakut, or just switching off manlands.
Honestly, I don't think the issue here is really alpine moon v.s. FoR. I think it's the combination of 4 FoRs + 2 fulminators v.s. 2-3 FoRs + 3 Alpine moons. If you run a singleton Alpine moon in the SB it really is just a matter of preference, but if your suggestion is running 2-3 copies, I dont think it's the best idea. FoR is a maindeck option, while Alpine Moon is strictly for SB, while they address similar problems, they aren't directly comparable
It is, actually a valid comparison. If you're going to maintain 4 FoR in your main then Alpine Moon is not very attractive at all. The cards are competing, and they affect your starting 60 as well. It's actually a very impactful comparison, because playing with 25 lands vs my 22 or 23, affects the spells you play in the maindeck as well.
One of the reasons I am not a big fan of 4 FoR main is because of how poor it is in the current meta. I want more early interaction spells in my main, I'm not too hot on having a lot of grindy spells like Cryptic Command, and I definitely am not interested in FoR's abilities against Affinity, Hollow One, Humans, Burn or Mardu Pyro. So being at 22 lands, a lower curve with more fatal pushes, more Young Pyro and in the board, ceremonious rejections with Alpine Moon is where I want to be.
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The thing is, Grixis is colored mana hungry. There's this understanding that our 23 land base couldn't include anything more than 1 colorless land (back then it was desolate lighthouse, sometimes GQ). So now to compensate we go to 25 lands, 21 colored and 4 colorless. The deck has 1UUU, 1BR and other such heavy costs in the main. I also like my Countersqualls over Negates.
Effectively, these colorless lands edge out your spells. So then your curve goes up. The number of library manipulation aka Fluff cards like serum visions or opt goes down. You lose control overall on your draws and become like Jund in that respect.
I was in the F-mage/Molten rain/moon camp. The issue was always that Tron could assemble it before you hit 3 mana on the draw. Damping Sphere solved that problem for me, but then it didn't touch Valakut, making it weaker than moon as a sideboard card. Then Alpine Moon was printed.
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I'm pretty firmly in the 24 land group since you're cutting spells for field and field only counts as a spell in a small percentage of matches while something like a vendilion clique or an extra cantrip always does something at the very least without being a liability. I'm on think twice because it is not a cantrip that may or may not be meaningful like remand or shadow of doubt. It is actual card advantage which the deck needs a small amount more of, it's the straw that stirs the drink.
The primary upside to alpine moon in the versatility discussion is that you can name cavern of souls if you get paired against eldrazi where fulm is fine but not great. I do like the card but I'm not sure I'll ever be 100% on the correct combination of land hate between main and side is. But the amount that we have access to and with enough cheap dorks to beat down with tron is palatable now rather than our lunch break. I haven't been feeling the pain of them not being down a land since you just need a turn or two to get your permission online and things are rather straight forward form there. Even against valakut I don't care about trying to surgical their namesake or stone rain them to oblivion. I just want them to be off a lethal scapeshift and for everything else there's cryptic command.
What about bolas? I know there was some discussion a bit ago, but it was primarily speculative. Has anybody actually gotten in some games with him? I'm not that interested in dropping $80 on something I'm not playing in standard and might not even sleeve up in modern.
EDIT: One further note on fulminator vs moon that I forgot to mention is against jeskai. Fulm is amazing against them as sometimes a simple stone rain is crippling, but it has much more value than a "gotcha" card. It lets us completely ignore colonnade as a threat even if we take out 100% of our spot removal that can hit it. It also answers a flipped azcanta without neutering our own and can help us sneak through a threat if they tap low and aren't expecting a full on LD spell. Ever since cutting AV and teferi being printed the match has gotten much closer to even for them and with the deck being obscenely popular for some reason, I do like having an extra problem card for them to deal with in my 75. It may not be much, but when it comes to SB slots every point in favor of one card over another counts for something.
Also a follow up question about the hollow one match up, what is your experience against them? Thinking back on when I've played it, I have yet to have even a single game that wasn't a nongame. Either they discard their big monsters and don't do anything all game, I die on turn 3, BM'd before I see a basic or fetch, or get triple thoughtseize'd by inquiry. How do your games typically play out where both players get to take somewhat impactful game actions? What do you see as the important cards on both sides and what SB options or strategies do you like the most?
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Damping Sphere. You already have 3 Field of Ruin and 2 Alpine Moon for Tron (I am not going to get started on Alpine Moon), and you have Nimble Obstructionist, counter magic, and graveyard hate for Storm. IMO, I would add a negate effect over a dispel effect. Dispel is nice for winning the counter was, but negate is more versatile and can actually counter the planeswalkers. This is more important against UW. Also, negate effects are useful against Tron and Storm, so you aren't losing a whole lot on that front.
if you want to hit tron AND valakut AND UWx with the same card, Alpine Moon really is your 1 mana bullet. it's pretty obvious but I'm still gonna say it: Alpine Moon is devastating against Jeskai. Their out, if they play it is a 3 cmc enchantment, the first one will shut off colonnade, and azcanta will not even get its first activation unlike if you tried to destroy it. its basically an easy and impossible-to-prevent 4-for-1, depending on what you've hit. Switching off 3-4 colonnades and all future azcantas is sweet.
when i draw Alpine Moon, tron and valakut simply become non-games. he also by extension shuts off their big planeswalkers and value spells (karn, ugin, scapeshift) because your countermagic gets better the less resources they have.
if my meta was tron, valakut and UW only, i'd run 3x Alpine Moon main period. as it is, its a stellar sideboard card.
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Storm is a triggered ability. You can counter it with nimble. With modern storm, you need to be careful though, because if they have remand, they can just remand the storm spell and try to cast it again if they have the mana.
Also, in case it ever comes up (because it is less known), you can counter Suspend cards with stifle as well.
I have a lot of experience playing with and against storm in both modern and legacy and I can say with confidence that if your plan is to "get them" by using a stifle effect on the storm trigger you are still dead. For stifles to be a live card you need a very specific texture to the game where they are entirely out of gas, are dead on board or are dead in two turns AND you have more interaction available. Proper stifle might be a thing if you have 4x snapcaster, but that doesn't apply to modern.
The bird is definitely a trap against storm without a VERY fast clock backing it up and even then it isn't considerably better than just a negate to stop them from getting their engine rolling. You'll be much better served to play with cards that either shut off their combo turn like the wet ball or can stop it part of the way in like permission.
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I'm torn. I love nothing more than Young Pyro, but as Hunans, Spirits and vengevine decks are trending up I also love to have access to two Angers in my board, and these two things are at odds. The prevalence on KCI and the strength of Affinity with the addition Karn makes me long for a second Rejection as well, although that one is less crucial.
I gave Search for Azcanta a try but immediately reverted back to 3 AVs.
I'm currently playing a funky list with 3 AVs, 3 Tasigurs, 3 Serum Visions and a Faithless Looting. SB has 2 Anger 2 EE at the expense of cutting down to just one Spellbomb, which is a dangerous feeling. Grave decks seem to be on a downtick though, and decks like KCI and BR hollow one are examples of decks where Spellbomb looks like an important tool but often falls short.
I'm torn. I love nothing more than Young Pyro, but as Hunans, Spirits and vengevine decks are trending up I also love to have access to two Angers in my board, and these two things are at odds. The prevalence on KCI and the strength of Affinity with the addition Karn makes me long for a second Rejection as well, although that one is less crucial.
I gave Search for Azcanta a try but immediately reverted back to 3 AVs.
I'm currently playing a funky list with 3 AVs, 3 Tasigurs, 3 Serum Visions and a Faithless Looting. SB has 2 Anger 2 EE at the expense of cutting down to just one Spellbomb, which is a dangerous feeling. Grave decks seem to be on a downtick though, and decks like KCI and BR hollow one are examples of decks where Spellbomb looks like an important tool but often falls short.
I'm on 4 AV, 2 Serum 2 Opts. Thinking of going up to 4 opts and 0 serums, because snap opt.
Regarding needing Anger and then that clashing with young pyro; I have 4 young pyros in my main and no wipes in the side. I beat vengevine/humans with straight out elemental tanking until which time I start taking over with the incremental card advantage (push, snap push, block with snap, bolt, claim snap and bolt or kommand snap, snap bolt etc etc etc...)
I still don't have leyline of the void which really pains me. If I had that much cash to spend on cardboard I would definitely be upgrading my mires to tarns first. So my GY hate is so far away. Agree that spellbomb just doesn't feel as great, although it has done work for me.
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I'm torn. I love nothing more than Young Pyro, but as Hunans, Spirits and vengevine decks are trending up I also love to have access to two Angers in my board, and these two things are at odds. The prevalence on KCI and the strength of Affinity with the addition Karn makes me long for a second Rejection as well, although that one is less crucial.
I gave Search for Azcanta a try but immediately reverted back to 3 AVs.
I'm currently playing a funky list with 3 AVs, 3 Tasigurs, 3 Serum Visions and a Faithless Looting. SB has 2 Anger 2 EE at the expense of cutting down to just one Spellbomb, which is a dangerous feeling. Grave decks seem to be on a downtick though, and decks like KCI and BR hollow one are examples of decks where Spellbomb looks like an important tool but often falls short.
I'm on 4 AV, 2 Serum 2 Opts. Thinking of going up to 4 opts and 0 serums, because snap opt.
Regarding needing Anger and then that clashing with young pyro; I have 4 young pyros in my main and no wipes in the side. I beat vengevine/humans with straight out elemental tanking until which time I start taking over with the incremental card advantage (push, snap push, block with snap, bolt, claim snap and bolt or kommand snap, snap bolt etc etc etc...)
I still don't have leyline of the void which really pains me. If I had that much cash to spend on cardboard I would definitely be upgrading my mires to tarns first. So my GY hate is so far away. Agree that spellbomb just doesn't feel as great, although it has done work for me.
Nihil isn't too bad, it gets the job done and cantrips, combined with anger of the gods, solves most of our problems just fine, don't see the need to spend cash on leylines.
I'm torn. I love nothing more than Young Pyro, but as Hunans, Spirits and vengevine decks are trending up I also love to have access to two Angers in my board, and these two things are at odds. The prevalence on KCI and the strength of Affinity with the addition Karn makes me long for a second Rejection as well, although that one is less crucial.
I gave Search for Azcanta a try but immediately reverted back to 3 AVs.
I'm currently playing a funky list with 3 AVs, 3 Tasigurs, 3 Serum Visions and a Faithless Looting. SB has 2 Anger 2 EE at the expense of cutting down to just one Spellbomb, which is a dangerous feeling. Grave decks seem to be on a downtick though, and decks like KCI and BR hollow one are examples of decks where Spellbomb looks like an important tool but often falls short.
Your assessment of the metagame really validates the choice to play EE main. BTW I think you are one of the few players still rocking AVs, how do you feel?
I dislike the idea of running EE in the main because it doesn't play well with the synergies of the deck, but I can see it still being correct, expecially if you are running Searches which give you that extra card selection. I also do like Spellbomb a lot, and can't really see myself ever cutting them completely. I had to cut something and that was my justification. I can easily see myself going back up to two. As for AV, I think the mana efficiency is crucial in modern that it's worth it to run AV even though the card has a non negligible fail rate. The fact it's a 3-for-1 that can't be discarded from your hand or blood mooned/ghost quartered out of the game is big too.
i'm running 2x pyromancer main alongside 2x anger of the gods and 1x damnation out of the board and its never proved a problem. commiting a pyromancer to the board actually often forces them to overextend and then damnation just wins. pyromancer + spotremoval the turn after you wipe the board is also a great folow up to lock the game down.
Running 2 Pyros alongside boardsweeps doesn't make your deck completely dysfunctional, but there is some tension. I think you are priced to board pyro out against decks like Affinity and Mardu Pyromancer since against Affinity Pyromancer isn't good enough at locking the opponent, and because Mardu can exploit an opener that contains both Pyro and Anger and because our Pyromancer tokens might not be enough to contest with lingering souls -tokens. In general Pyromancer becomes less important in the MUs where we are bringing in our sweepers. It's not a huge cost, but I'm pretty sure I might have trouble replacing the bad game one cards with reasonable SB cards if I have to board out additional Peezys.
I'm torn. I love nothing more than Young Pyro, but as Hunans, Spirits and vengevine decks are trending up I also love to have access to two Angers in my board, and these two things are at odds. The prevalence on KCI and the strength of Affinity with the addition Karn makes me long for a second Rejection as well, although that one is less crucial.
I gave Search for Azcanta a try but immediately reverted back to 3 AVs.
I'm currently playing a funky list with 3 AVs, 3 Tasigurs, 3 Serum Visions and a Faithless Looting. SB has 2 Anger 2 EE at the expense of cutting down to just one Spellbomb, which is a dangerous feeling. Grave decks seem to be on a downtick though, and decks like KCI and BR hollow one are examples of decks where Spellbomb looks like an important tool but often falls short.
I'm on 4 AV, 2 Serum 2 Opts. Thinking of going up to 4 opts and 0 serums, because snap opt.
Regarding needing Anger and then that clashing with young pyro; I have 4 young pyros in my main and no wipes in the side. I beat vengevine/humans with straight out elemental tanking until which time I start taking over with the incremental card advantage (push, snap push, block with snap, bolt, claim snap and bolt or kommand snap, snap bolt etc etc etc...)
I still don't have leyline of the void which really pains me. If I had that much cash to spend on cardboard I would definitely be upgrading my mires to tarns first. So my GY hate is so far away. Agree that spellbomb just doesn't feel as great, although it has done work for me.
forgoing Angers in favor of a full playset of Pyros is pretty interesting. I can easily see it being superior in MUs like BR Hollow One while giving nice advantage against the DS decks that are seeing more and more play atm. However I don't think the tokens do enough against decks like Spirits and Elves, and something like Dredge can probably compete even with an army tokens until it can dig to Conflagrate.
I'm just about to put this deck together and I was just wondering why people play Young Pyromancer instead of Goblin Rabblemaster? It seems to me that YP would be not as good of a late game topdeck as Rabblemaster, especially against other control decks. Not to mention the super fast clock it presents if you play it early. Also, Rabblemaster is slightly harder to remove with Fatal Push.
The tokens generated by pyro are able to block every turn while the rabblemaster prevents that. Also a resolved pyro lets you guarantee some value with a follow up spell always generating a token and the goblin can be killed before you get to your attack step. They also fill different roles as well. Rabblemaster is a fast clock for combo matches while pyro is a defensive option that can become a strong clock. All in all pyro is more versatile with how our deck is constructed, but you can lean on the goblin if your only concern is having a fast clock when facing little to no removal.
1 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Dreadbore
Durdles
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Think Twice
3 Thought Scour
Threats
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Vendilion Clique
Non-Creature Interaction
3 Cryptic Command
1 Spell Snare
2 Logic Knot
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Field of Ruin
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Alpine Moon
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Damnation
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Negate
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Collective Brutality
Now that the list is out of the way here is how the rounds shook out for me.
R1: Lantern 0-2
This was a fairly standard affair of a dozen plus turns of not doing anything of significance until they are dead on board with a bridge protecting them. Unfortunately for me on the critical turn both games I was a single mana short of being able to play a final draw spell such as Clique on myself or scour on them to clear the bridge for a single turn to attack for lethal. Regardless, both games were very enjoyable to play and it's hard to say if I played correctly each game.
R2: Abzan Counters Company 2-0
Game two they have a very long game oriented hand with finks, ballista, double E.witt chord and coco. I Iok and Snap IoK early on the witness and chord, logic knot the second witness and snap knot their coco then clean up with terminate plus Kommand on the finks. They rebuild with a noble and ballista on 2 which I anger away and follow up with a tasigur. They main phase a coco with some solid hits and I draw a damnation. I decide to slow play it and start activating tasigur to get some goodies back until they commit a bit more and then blow everything up. I stick an azcanta shortly after and the game is academic from there as I walk in the victory with a tarpit and a lone snapcaster.
R3: Burn 2-1
R4: RG Ponza 2-1
Next game they get a turn 3 trinisphere and I have a bit of an internal giggle at how ineffective the card is. They deploy some midrange threats that I 1-for-1 with removal and a logic knot and stick a Clique to start pecking away at their life total. They get off a pair of mid game stone rain effects, but by then I have enough lands to operate and without a moon to break me it isn't enough and the 3/1 flyer takes it down.
Final game they snap keep their opening 7 on the play. I mull to 6. I mull to 5. I see a hand of island, island, steam vents, logic knot, and explosives. I have to keep and scry seeing a blood crypt on the top and start to think about how I can possibly win this game. What sequence of events needs to happen for me to beat a stellar 7 cards from the opponent on the play, no matter how unlikely. Crypt gives me black for the EE to clear a moon, but on the draw I'm not going to get there before blood moon "interacts with me" and stops me from taking a game action. I decide that the only way I can win is if I find threats and can use the EE and knot to keep myself alive and pray that the 2 islands are all I need to function and that they don't get destroyed.
I bottom the crypt and they open with sprawl into stone rain your steam vents. I draw a tar pit and get blood mooned the next turn. They BBE into ooze and I use EE to clear the ooze and knot their follow up chameleon colossus. They follow up with a tracker into forest while I draw a click and a terminate over this time. I decide that I can't click them because there is no way I can beat anything good without a swamp for the terminate. Since there is only 1 swamp in the deck my best chance to win is to click myself and not trade my clique with the tracker.
I cycle my terminate into a watery grave and start racing. I clear the tracker with a bolt and they BBE into another ooze and I draw the one card I knew I had to find since turn 0 of this game to have a shot at the win, Pia and Kiran Nalaar. I smile as I see the blood moon on the other side of the table and tap 2 islands and 2 UB duals to cast mom and dad with a pair of tarns next to them. As I put my tokens into play my opponent also looks at their moon and slumps into their chair.
They know full well that the blood moon is what caused this situation to turn from a win for them into a loss. Life totals being what they are, their only out was a resolved tragtusk. We take turns attacking past each other and on the final turn I throw my thopters at them to put them to -1 with me being dead to their attack on the following turn. I was so very tempted to mimic the 'Cloudthresher beats faeries' story by spouting off "...and they say blood moon beats grixis control. Lul. LUL!"
Play to your outs, get rewarded. FeelsGreatMan!
R5: Mardu Pyro 2-0
I start using snaps on thought scours to incentivize them to start committing to the board and tag the reveler with my counterspell. Several turns pass with them durdling with looting and me doing my thing of land go and flashing back think twice while chipping away. I eventually Kommand back a scoured tasigur and start to really pressure them. I counter their first 2 removal spells and they stick a reveler this time pitching a souls which I get to surgical. But with them being so low on life I'm able to take down the last few points of life with a tar pit and a cryptic tap draw.
R6: GW Value Town 2-0
The next game is similar to the first but ends up much more nerve wracking. They open with a flood of value dorks and start getting ahead while I start to take a bunch of hits before managing to clear the board at a meager 6 life. They have been pecking away with a single lotus cobra and cast a noble. We both share a laugh as it is a very relevant card on turn 15 as it takes a full turn off the clock. I have only a single logic knot in hand and I have to spend it here to give myself an extra draw step and I delve an enormous amount of spells from my yard in anticipation of finding a tasigur. I pick up a jace and plus to slow the beats further while they horizon canopy into a courser and get a free land off the top. I minus into a think twice that finds a bolt and flash back think twice which peels a terminate.
They end step a coco into knight plus a naked renegade rallier to clear the jace and take the last terminate from my hand leaving me at a precarious life total. I top deck a snapcaster and snap Kommand in the draw step to rebuy another snap. I do this for a second time and get back a tasigur which quickly refills my hand with action thanks to my 13 lands in play. With a grip full of known answers, they scoop when I cryptic their top deck'd coco.
R7: Hallow One 0-2
Had I not been gibbed by hollow one and managed to win that round instead, I could have ID'd the last round into the top 8 which was a big letdown considering how much of a nongame it was. After that depressing loss I decided to drop from the event to try and beat rush hour traffic on the highway I was taking home to shorten my drive by two hours. Found out when I got home there was a wreck on the road that happened shortly before I got back so I sure dodged a bullet with that decision. In any case, here are some thoughts for you to mull over with the non-standard choices I've made and how they preformed both in the event itself and in testing.
2 Inquisition of Kozilek MD - These are replacing the typical countersquall and extra spell snare slots and I have been very happy with them. They aren't as good as snare against snapcaster decks, but they are still good there and we are already a favorite so the slight percentage loss isn't very pronounced. They act mostly as a way to clear early value spells that demand a counterspell like tireless tracker, blood moon, pyromancer, and the information itself is invaluable.
It also gives you the IoK-Snap-IoK-Cryptic openers which are absolutely amazing and makes it incredibly difficult for most decks to enforce their will before your mana and draw engines have been set up. Even though they're not that great on turn 19, they can still clear the way for a tasigur to end the game so they are still useful once we get to where we want to be. I highly recommend running some number of discard right now, but thoughtseize I found to be much too painful to be included as much as I wish I could register them.
2 Think Twice MD - I've always said that you can't rely on just 2 search for azcanta as your draw engine and I still stand by that claim. People run field of ruin, they blood moon, they molten rain, they cast rest in peace and so on. These mopey draw spells really help push you over the line in a resource battle when search isn't able to stick around and I was very happy to have them paired with thought scours to occasionally get some added value. Obviously they're embarrassing against burn, but so is every draw spell when your opponent doesn't care about going past turn 5. In the past I have run Glimmer of Genius and was very impressed with how well it performed, but I wanted something that I could do earlier on and didn't want to have even more 4 drops in the deck. It works with snapcaster and is a very powerful play considering what you are drawing into, but currently I'm leaning towards cheaper spells for my raw card draw.
0 Serum Visions MD - I'll always miss serum because of the great consistency it adds, but I don't feel like we can afford the full on Turbo XeroX play style in modern right now. This meant I had to choose one cantrip or the other and scour had more value when you add in think twice. I tried playing just 2 copies in addition to some number of scours, but there wasn't enough card advantage to keep me ahead once I stabilize to warrant the inclusion.
3 Cryptic Command and 3 Kolaghan's Command - I've tried the 8 command version of grixis in the past and every time I hated it. There are just far too many games and entire match ups where they are too clunky for you to convert into a meaningful advantage. You don't always have worthwhile targets for Kommand and aren't always able to hold open 4 mana to drop a cryptic in a meaningful fashion. Because of that I trimmed down a copy of each in favor of other forms of advantage that are easier to translate into a favorable position and have been extremely satisfied with the change.
1 Anger of the Gods MD - Without path to exile we need some kind of exile effect, especially with hollow one being such a high variance match. I've enjoyed having a sweeper in the main before, and today the creature decks tend to be going very wide and this is a great tool to have in the first game. For a while I was running two copies main and zero in the side, but I wanted to diversify my spells a bit more to make the snaps and scours a little bit better. I can easily see two main being the correct route to take due to us lacking Path to Exile, but am unsure of which swap is the best to make it happen.
Jace, Architect of Thought MD - This one partially fills the role of sweeper against go-wide decks and threat plus card draw against slower fair decks. I've been very impressed with how it performs and he colds early lingering souls spam from mardu cleanly while being able to be a draw engine in its own right. Right now I am certain on the inclusion, but in two weeks that could easily change based on how the meta continues to develop.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar SB - A fairly simple and generic mid game threat for when that is desired. It has the upside of being castable through a blood moon and very good against decks that would play it while not being answered cleanly by a lone celestial purge like keranos against jeskai. This slot changes from week to week depending on what fair deck you expect the most and currently I want the promised value from mom and dad.
Alpine Moon SB - This has been a fine "no button" to hit against tron and valakut. I like the one because it shuts them down even when on the draw and can buy enough time for us to set up so that tron either doesn't matter or has been blown up with fields and fulmns. I could take it or leave it to be honest, but as a one of I don't have much data to make any strong claims.
0 Dispel SB - I chose to go with more versatile counters that are always good against the big mana decks as I feel that the matches where dispel is good so are negate/stroke (aside from burn) where I don't need the extra help. This is a point I feel strongly about as half the decks where you want to load up on permission are heavily in our favor and the other half are very bad for us so I want to ensure that 100% my permission is live when I need the help.
2 Damnation + 1 Anger of the Gods SB - My list is far more heavy on wrath effects than ones I have seen for a while. Much like my comments on Jace, AoT, the creature decks tend to be going quite wide and you can't always keep pace in the early turns with spot removal. Post board the mantra has always been "make sure your hate cards are Powerful" and a playset of wraths is exactly that. With a large portion of the field being decks that dump a handful of dorks into play for one reason or another, being able to ensure that you find an early sweeper is how you should be boarding. It also lets you ensure that you won't have to leave in any permission against the vial/cavern decks or other creature decks where permission is embarrassing and just pray you get a target for them.
3 Field of ruin + 1 Spirebluff Canal - Another uncommon choice for the lands and this one I found to be partially incorrect. It was a calculated risk on my part and a conscious choice to do so which was a less tested (or less noticed) aspect of my list going into the event. I'll be sticking with 24 total lands however and change the third field back into a UR dual to help facilitate anger of the gods on curve ever so slightly. I do like the fast land to help alleviate your fetch/shock tendencies early on, but I'm not sure how many fast lands I would be comfortable having in total.
Moving forward I'm going to be running the following list and trying to find room for an extra think twice to total 2 copies in the deck or consider a third search for azcanta over the one think twice I currently have. Here is what I am currently fiddling with:
1 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Dreadbore
Durdles
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
Threats
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Vendilion Clique
Non-Creature Interaction
3 Cryptic Command
1 Spell Snare
2 Logic Knot
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Field of Ruin
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Alpine Moon
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Damnation
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Negate
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
I absolutely want 2 cliques in the 75 somewhere and prefer some in the main because of their perpetual usefulness and flexibility. I'm also happy with the total number of draw spells, but the configuration does determine the amount that I want. I'm back on 3 tasigur because the games where you have one before the late game and when you don't are like night and day when you compare how easily you can leverage your commands and close out the game. He also fills the role of a draw engine which the deck wants, especially with knots to help curate the yard.
I have played a number of games with Nicol Bolas, the Ravager and I have been impressed with him, especially with a pair of IoK in the deck. He really helps you do a number on your opponents hand and whittle them down to nothing. It is also a late game "I Win" card that also helps by blocking early beats in fair matches and brick walls lingering souls tokens. Unfortunately I don't own any and the price tag is why I haven't tried them in a competitive setting. I'll be fooling around more with him in the list and I am hopeful, but I really can't say for sure if he is a worthy inclusion or not. What I can say on that subject however is that it is a strong enough card that it is worth thoroughly testing as opposed to just speculating on paper without a good amount of games being played.
The creature split that I am most interested in testing to include bloas is as follows:
I hope you enjoyed reading through my thoughts on the archetype and am curious what your thoughts are on bolas for those who have actually played a number of games with him. How does everyone feel about the heavy cantrip versions of grixis against the field? Do you just yolo against blood moon decks and hope to dodge it resolving? Has anybody else enjoyed some amount of discard in the main deck? Are there any players that have liked Alpine Moon as a sideboard card that have in game experience with it?
Congrats on the finish nonetheless! Great to see fellow Grixis players do well.
I agree with your take on think twice, in the sense that we need the actual draw spells, not just cantrips. though in the past, i've almost always preferred to run remand or shadow of doubt instead of think twice, since im playing 4 snapcasters. But think twice is Wafo Tapa's signature card, there must be a good reason for it.
And i've recently converted to a more standard corey buckhart list recently, dropping opts and increasing the land count to 25 to include 4 field of ruins, I feel that I have enough consistency in the deck anyway, cantrips are really just used for mana fixing early on. but the FoRs on the other hand do a lot more than I expect them to, Tron is no longer an auto lose. I also found blood moons a little easier to deal with unless they are dropped on curve, with 4 field of ruins helping me fetch basics alongside 8 on color fetch lands.
On Alpine Moon, I find it a net tempo loss against majority of decks, and against valakut or tron, they are just ancient grudge targets. With 4 FoRs and 2 fulminator mages and pair of surgicals on the side, I don't feel there is a good enough reason to play Alpine Moon.
I play discard spells too but on the side, a pair of duress instead of IoK because with so much removal I'm not worried about opponent's creatures, but none-creature spells, especially enchantments/PWs, those are the real deal. I do sometimes wonder though if i should play IoK instead since it's valuable in more matchups
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
1. Ancient Grudge cannot touch alpine moon.
2. Activating a field of ruin is quite clearly a bigger tempo cost than 1 red mana.
While Moon can indeed be removed, it is noteworthy that it costs 1, and therefore much easier to cast and protect than say, damping sphere or blood moon. I'm also puzzled as to why alpine moon would be criticized as tempo loss when, further down the same paragraph we have Field of Ruin being touted as a reason we don't need moon. I see it the other way; because of Alpine Moon, I don't need to run 4 colorless lands.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Sorry on the ancient grudge part, but you totally understood what i meant, could be removed. land decks run enchantment removal to neutralize blood moons in the first place.
But I can't agree with you on 2 mana activation cost for FoR is a bigger tempo loss. It's an instant speed effect that does not net you a card disadvantage because it recycles itself, and by doing so it thins your deck, fuels delve spells and azcanta. FoR does not require extra commitment from your original game plan other than stricter fetching decisions in the early turns to compensate for producing colorless mana. FoR's advantage is that it's almost never dead, hits utility lands, man lands, helps colorscrew your opponent, and produces 1 colorless mana at the very least, while fetching you basics for color or to dodge moon. although alpine moon only costs R, you have to draw it in your opening hand to fully take advantage of the low CMC, which means running at least 3 copies of a sub-optimal top-deck.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Disagree on many of the points:
1. Tempo: Yes its an instant speed effect, but so what? Has your opponent really done nothing throughout turn 3 that's worth reacting to? Alpine moon isn't instant but it costs one. I can play it turn 1, I can play it turn 2 and hold up Snare/Dispel, I can play it turn 3 and hold up Squall/Leak/Negate.
2. Card Disadvantage: It is an overall 0 for 0, since you trade FoR for the opponent's land and you both tutor a basic. However, tempo wise you are down 2 mana, your opponent is up 1, for a net tempo disadvantage of 3 mana. You pay 1 for Moon, and then they have to overcome the moon or lose.
3. Extra commitment: Its funny that you say no extra commitment is required then go on to list some extra commitments. That Alpine Moon doesn't have. This is something for me to bring up, not you. But while we're talking restrictions, that "stricter" fetching you're talking about is basically fetch and shock, fetch and shock. Its a very real cost against aggressive decks. After all, you have 1UUU and 1BR spells in the deck, meaning when you're up against something like merfolk, humans, 8whack, mardu pyro or zoo, FoR is pure liability. Moon is where such solutions mostly belong - in the sideboard to seriously mess with decks that rely on their lands.
4. Almost never dead: I have 2 FoR in my main. There are plenty of games where they don't do much other than break a manland and fetch me a color. That's not the most impressive thing, considering we have fatal pushes and snaps to work with. Running 4 FoR and a total of 25 lands means you have less spell density and/or a lower threat count. If those 4 lands really mattered most games that would be awesome: but have you really color screwed an opponent? Those would be deck that splash a color but neglect to have a basic of that color. I can think of infect (which has hierarch).
5. Opening hand: Alpine moon doesn't need to be in the opening hand. Per point #1, you can cast it at many points on the curve while having the rest of your mana up for interaction. Unlike FoR, you can get the necessary action done turn 1 and move on to draw go. Last but not least - its not a non-functional topdeck. You can use it against utility and manlands if you draw a spare or draw 1 late, like naming Kessig Wolf-Run if you've already named Valakut, or just switching off manlands.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Honestly, I don't think the issue here is really alpine moon v.s. FoR. I think it's the combination of 4 FoRs + 2 fulminators v.s. 2-3 FoRs + 3 Alpine moons. If you run a singleton Alpine moon in the SB it really is just a matter of preference, but if your suggestion is running 2-3 copies, I dont think it's the best idea. FoR is a maindeck option, while Alpine Moon is strictly for SB, while they address similar problems, they aren't directly comparable
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
One of the reasons I am not a big fan of 4 FoR main is because of how poor it is in the current meta. I want more early interaction spells in my main, I'm not too hot on having a lot of grindy spells like Cryptic Command, and I definitely am not interested in FoR's abilities against Affinity, Hollow One, Humans, Burn or Mardu Pyro. So being at 22 lands, a lower curve with more fatal pushes, more Young Pyro and in the board, ceremonious rejections with Alpine Moon is where I want to be.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Effectively, these colorless lands edge out your spells. So then your curve goes up. The number of library manipulation aka Fluff cards like serum visions or opt goes down. You lose control overall on your draws and become like Jund in that respect.
I was in the F-mage/Molten rain/moon camp. The issue was always that Tron could assemble it before you hit 3 mana on the draw. Damping Sphere solved that problem for me, but then it didn't touch Valakut, making it weaker than moon as a sideboard card. Then Alpine Moon was printed.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
The primary upside to alpine moon in the versatility discussion is that you can name cavern of souls if you get paired against eldrazi where fulm is fine but not great. I do like the card but I'm not sure I'll ever be 100% on the correct combination of land hate between main and side is. But the amount that we have access to and with enough cheap dorks to beat down with tron is palatable now rather than our lunch break. I haven't been feeling the pain of them not being down a land since you just need a turn or two to get your permission online and things are rather straight forward form there. Even against valakut I don't care about trying to surgical their namesake or stone rain them to oblivion. I just want them to be off a lethal scapeshift and for everything else there's cryptic command.
What about bolas? I know there was some discussion a bit ago, but it was primarily speculative. Has anybody actually gotten in some games with him? I'm not that interested in dropping $80 on something I'm not playing in standard and might not even sleeve up in modern.
EDIT: One further note on fulminator vs moon that I forgot to mention is against jeskai. Fulm is amazing against them as sometimes a simple stone rain is crippling, but it has much more value than a "gotcha" card. It lets us completely ignore colonnade as a threat even if we take out 100% of our spot removal that can hit it. It also answers a flipped azcanta without neutering our own and can help us sneak through a threat if they tap low and aren't expecting a full on LD spell. Ever since cutting AV and teferi being printed the match has gotten much closer to even for them and with the deck being obscenely popular for some reason, I do like having an extra problem card for them to deal with in my 75. It may not be much, but when it comes to SB slots every point in favor of one card over another counts for something.
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
when i draw Alpine Moon, tron and valakut simply become non-games. he also by extension shuts off their big planeswalkers and value spells (karn, ugin, scapeshift) because your countermagic gets better the less resources they have.
if my meta was tron, valakut and UW only, i'd run 3x Alpine Moon main period. as it is, its a stellar sideboard card.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Also, in case it ever comes up (because it is less known), you can counter Suspend cards with stifle as well.
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
The bird is definitely a trap against storm without a VERY fast clock backing it up and even then it isn't considerably better than just a negate to stop them from getting their engine rolling. You'll be much better served to play with cards that either shut off their combo turn like the wet ball or can stop it part of the way in like permission.
I gave Search for Azcanta a try but immediately reverted back to 3 AVs.
I'm currently playing a funky list with 3 AVs, 3 Tasigurs, 3 Serum Visions and a Faithless Looting. SB has 2 Anger 2 EE at the expense of cutting down to just one Spellbomb, which is a dangerous feeling. Grave decks seem to be on a downtick though, and decks like KCI and BR hollow one are examples of decks where Spellbomb looks like an important tool but often falls short.
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I'm on 4 AV, 2 Serum 2 Opts. Thinking of going up to 4 opts and 0 serums, because snap opt.
Regarding needing Anger and then that clashing with young pyro; I have 4 young pyros in my main and no wipes in the side. I beat vengevine/humans with straight out elemental tanking until which time I start taking over with the incremental card advantage (push, snap push, block with snap, bolt, claim snap and bolt or kommand snap, snap bolt etc etc etc...)
I still don't have leyline of the void which really pains me. If I had that much cash to spend on cardboard I would definitely be upgrading my mires to tarns first. So my GY hate is so far away. Agree that spellbomb just doesn't feel as great, although it has done work for me.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Your assessment of the metagame really validates the choice to play EE main. BTW I think you are one of the few players still rocking AVs, how do you feel?
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
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UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Running 2 Pyros alongside boardsweeps doesn't make your deck completely dysfunctional, but there is some tension. I think you are priced to board pyro out against decks like Affinity and Mardu Pyromancer since against Affinity Pyromancer isn't good enough at locking the opponent, and because Mardu can exploit an opener that contains both Pyro and Anger and because our Pyromancer tokens might not be enough to contest with lingering souls -tokens. In general Pyromancer becomes less important in the MUs where we are bringing in our sweepers. It's not a huge cost, but I'm pretty sure I might have trouble replacing the bad game one cards with reasonable SB cards if I have to board out additional Peezys.
forgoing Angers in favor of a full playset of Pyros is pretty interesting. I can easily see it being superior in MUs like BR Hollow One while giving nice advantage against the DS decks that are seeing more and more play atm. However I don't think the tokens do enough against decks like Spirits and Elves, and something like Dredge can probably compete even with an army tokens until it can dig to Conflagrate.
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