Against affinity better not side out RoE, better 1-2 Serras 1-2 Procs bcs they can have chalice or gravehate postside. And it's pretty important to get Martyr from RoE in time.
Against merfolks better side in stony - it's much better to lock them at all rather just kill 1 of possible few more vials.
If you play high number of 1cc creatures you surely want to have 3rd Proclamation to be able to cast one of them for 3 mana sometimes and be more safe for hand disrupt.
I get out Kami of 75 bcs can't see infect - usually main problem for our deck where Kami shines. Kami is also good in hyperagressive meta with Orzhov charm.
About changes you can try this:
-1 Kami +1 Surgical/Runed halo
-1 Proc +1 Crucible
If you aware of Tron better then keep min 3 surgicals in 75. Better 4. Also always remember that after you surged tron piece you have some clock to kill him before he gets manually to his big guys.
I would also recommend to have Hex parasite in side against plancewalkers and chalice.
Most times I played with Endurial Ideal - they git rekt my turn 4-5 Nahiri pretty fast. Postside I also have Hide//Seek so I felt pretty comfortable it that games.
Why not try more Celestial purge in sb to have answers also against problematic planeswalkers as Nahiri and Liliana?
But there's no more infect and hyper agressive strategies anymore so I don't think theese kind of cards are required. Better add more value cards.
The problem of 2 ascendants is usually for 3+ color decks bcs of very painfull manabase. In 2 color with flagstones you can easily go 4 of them without hitting consistence =)
Oh, see, so that's a metagame call. Usually Nahiri+Wrath can deal with boggles and some SB disienchants.
I think that tron player should be really salty since martyr match up is pretty strong + for them
Crucible seemed bad for martyr, and not able to recur via proc or search with ranger seems also bad.
But the plan is to have enough game vs those decks that it won't matter and crucible can pull weight vs tron etc.
Possible it should be weathered wayfarer.
2-0 vs reliquary combo.
- crucible of worlds
- 1 proc
+2 Aven mindcensor
1-0 loss to rg tron
Lose quickly game 1
G2 I attack and say one moment as I think about sun titan trigger and mistveiling to put ascendants on bottom...he blocks mindcensor and I say oh it has flying but I am still doing my trigger. Judge rules by saying that I have moved to blocks and missed the trigger.
As a result game goes to time with him drawing the final card of his library turn 5.
Win 2-1 vs junk
+2 purge
+1 surgical
-Kami
-Crucible
_proc
Lose 1-2 to junk
- Proc
- Kami
- Crucible
- Martyr
+3 leyline
+1 celestial
Last round ended with lotv On 1 loyalty and me with a wrath and Elspeth with five lands. I don't draw a land in six draws pitching spells and holding an Elspeth till a lotv ultimate... Yep
Win 2-1 vs restore balance
+2 surgical
+ 2 purge
+ 2 stony
- wrath
- Elspeth
- Martyr
- Sun titan
- O ring
- Kami
1-1 "draw" vs burn
Mulled to five and lost quick game 1. 45 min left on clock.
G2 I have double leyline and triple prison. Swinging with 3 recurring Hawks. Opponent looks at time. Spends five min getting new pen. I am putting Hawks on bottom and then casting. He insists on shuffling for 1 minute each time.
I ask to speed play 7 times. I call judge. None comes, he says he will just concede. He thinks a minute. He says he will play out. (after a judge didnt come) Says he wants to play till lethal, his turns take few minutes. I call judge, he immediately scoops. I ask judge to watch, he says he will be back soon. 15 min on clock.
He comes back in five minutes. Opponent still sideboarding. Opponent spends another five min with judge there. Judge asks to go faster.
We start round 3 with 5 min. I have double leyline. 5 min on clock.
Time is called after he passes. I say turn 0. Judge is looking into space. I past turn, he says turn 2. I complain, judge says just keep playing and we fix at end if I want to appeal.
Ends on turn 5, actually turn 4, I on 40 life with 3 ascendant, ranger, and Kami on board. Oppponent has nothing. I say turn 5, judge says have to appeal. Opponent immediately scoops his cards away when judge leaves and signs result slip 1-1. Making it impossible to play out last turn and swing.
Head kudge asks why I didn't ask earlier about stalling. I say I did but judge advised to keep going. They say too late now. I ask if sideboarding for 10 minute is reasonable, head judge says no...but too late and it was first judges error.. I complain that I have lethal on board and it is actually turn 5, but no avail as opponents card are put away.
Win 2-1 vs four colour tokens.
And bust 0-2 vs junk...drew seven lands in a row twice, next card was wrath one game, next was the land needed for sun titan
5-3-1
Moving forward crucible should be wayfarer or surgical main.
Devastated by my burn match result, was so shocking the incompetence of the first judge.
Have only 1 gravehate card and feel a bit uncomfortable but don't have free spots for 3 min gravehate usual cards (like Surgical, relics and etc.)
Not sure about spots of Wheel, Sphere and Dromoka. Wheels is pretty narrow for this meta. Sphere is only answer for planeswalkers for mainboard and Dromoka dies to PtE pretty easy... She's good against nonwhite control decks.
I also want to add Saffi Eriksdotter to SB to have options to grind with Renegade rallier.
Also have idea to use at 100% of Wish and Rallier with this list:
It better supports idea of working with SB and Rallier could also ramp to Ugin to help to answer to most treats in modern. But not playing prisons in agressive meta feels a bit bad.
What do you think?
Crucible of worlds is CA engine and save stick for Emerial/Mistveil plains bcs in half situations you can't activate Weathered wayfarer or he just dies.
Also it can support LD plan to help to lock with Ghostly prisons. Especially good against control decks when you have Tectonic edge - they will just never get more than 3 mana.
About second game against tron. Did you call for higher judge to resolve this situation? As you're saying it looks like cheating. I can't understand how you went to blocks when you still remember about trigger and resolving it while opponent is in space.
Against BGx here is usual sb plan I would reccomend if we will take your list:
Side IN:
+2 Celestial purge - answer for Lily and extra removal spell for Bob and etc.
+1 Blessed alliance - extra removal spell
+2 Aven mindcensor - Flying creature, sometimes helps to keep them from lands
+3 Leyline of sanctity - turns off their discard spells and - abilities of Lily.
Side OUT:
-4 Ghostly prison - don't do much. They still can keep attacking, most times go for +1 of Lily and could be easily killed by Abrupt decay or Maelstrom pulse.
-2 Proclamation of rebirth - with tonns of gravehate (especially postside) and discard it just doesn't work.
-1 Serra ascendant - pretty weak bcs we rarely have 30+ life.
-1 Kami of false hope - doesn't do much against number of instant speed removals and we don't have any planeswalker to protect.
About situation of Elspeth - that's why we play Crucible. If you don't wanna play crucible then try second Sun titan instead and keep Elspeth in sb.
About slowplaing. Sad to say but happens often in magic and better be prepared for that especially if you play Martyr Proc (we don't have wincons that fast enough). And understand when to call judge to watch is really important. I can only sympathize with thi situation bcs went myself through it several times.
So that's why better have wristwatch on hand and be able to watch for your time.
If you don't like descisions of some judge it's okay to report wizards about them.
Anyway congrats with 5-3-1 - not a bad result. Keep progressing to see you in top 8 or a winner of some GP
////
Guys, I'm looking at current meta on Mtggoldfish. What do you think about mainboard Leyline of sanctity? As I see - they hit pretty much top decks to let us play better against them first game.
Thank you for reply.
Happy that you do good, guys. Bcs I can't for last year
Let's start from the shortest question.
Why Leylines. Let's look at modern meta and find cards that this spell can turn off some cards or strategies:
Affinity - useless for first game. Can be usefull postside against discard and Ghirapur web.
Eldrazi tron - keep us safe against Sir - our main opponent in this matchup. Also help to keep our face safe against ballistas, endbringer and etc.
Suicide zoo - 4 Thoughtseize, 4 IoK, 2-3 K-command and etc. Turns off half their deck.
BGx decks - turns off all discard spells and make Lily a planeswalker with 1 ability.
Bant eldrazi - keep our hand safe from Sirs.
Burn - nothing to say. They just don't have answer for leylines mainboard.
Titan shift - they can kill us only with few creatures before side. Mostly kills their strategy.
Grixis control - keeps our hand safe from discard. Also saves our proclamation what is important for first game.
Valakut breach - mostly the same as titan shift but we need some save card against Emma.
Grixis delver - lots of burn spells and discard just don't work. We can just play like against some zoo deck.
Merfolk - usless
Ad nauseum - keep us safe from Storm kill so only priority we have - to keep open 3+ removal spells for maniac.
UR Storm - some of them don't have echoing truth mainboard so with Ghostly prisons we can free win.
Abzan company - they can't hate our hand for removal spells and can't kill with Redcap combo.
Eldrazi and Taxes - they have a lot of discard based on creatures so we can save a lot of removals spells against them and feel safe.
Scapeshift - they need time to get rid of leylines so we have time to get enough life to be safe.
Elves - can't low our lifepoints with Shaman of the pack and prob some discard spells.
Amulet titan - useless.
Infect - useless.
Jeskai control - thwy can't play tempo with burning face so we can safely go to lategame.
Cheeri0s - they usually don't have any mainbord bounce so it can be free win.
Lantern control - turns off half of their millstones and their discard spells. Can be very helpfull.
8-rack - free win for first game
and etc... Leyline have much more targets than Runed halo and can be putted from 0 turn. That's why Leyline >> Halo.
About your questions:
Abzan is not great, I'll answer about it below. About Naya haven't done research and it will be below Abzan researches. ABout criteria of removal - I think that ability of exiling or bottdeck without questions is much better for us than usual removal to prevent most deck utilising dead creatures. But every color has their + and -.4
To be honest - I still can't find more space for SB options I want to add. Bcs there are only 4 Wishes and I have some cards to Side in and out, so space in total for multicolored cards is pretty small. Also there are some criterieas like reanimating SB cards with our main Emeria/Sus titan or Renegade plan...
Yeah, it worths it. Having options to win or hate before SBing is pretty strong. Also Wishes with good assembled SB for meta can make miracles. Bcs you're playing like 3-4 SB/MB cards in main.
About tests online - I;m trying cockatrice but it's not really great place for tests. So I can't do much with this
Okay. About Martyr of wishes.
Let's start from green multicolor spells as base:
GW options:
Gaddock teeg - against combo decks like Tron, Ad nauseum, hates some options og RG breach and reanimators and etc. Mostly will be our main anticombo card.
Mostly it's answers for artifacts and enchantments and some pretty cool treats that save us from problematic modern mechanics like annihilator, counterspells and etc. and some cards that helps with combo: Dryad and Teeg.
Also it worth to mention Life from the loam that could do incredible job of activating Emeria and LD plan for clear Selesnya variant of deck.
UW options we can get:
Supreme verdict - for those he can't draw one of 4 mb wrathes
Meddling mage - against combo decks dude too. Can serve as guard for Teeg.
Teferi's moat - Tutorable prison for monocolored decks
Pride of the clouds - dunno what for. Probably against control decks to increse our bordstate with flyers. Not sure it will be usefull when most control decks play prison cards or Izzet staticcaster.
Tamiyo, field researcher - I think it's one of the best value and tempo planeswalker for our deck. Can generate insane CA.
Blue color adds mostly CA spells and some tutors in Bant colors. Also UW spells contains idea of monoW hate cards like Meddling mage - Nevermore, Ghostly prison - Teferi's moat and etc.
Also there's incredible Dovescape - best card against spell based decks if we can put it on battlefield. (to be honest - we can play it in GW version xD)
About Simik colored spells. Only interesting card can be Kruphix, God of Horizons - to cast or Ugin and other hard castable cards much earlier.
AS we can see black mostly gives us permament removal spells not answer for combo decks against which we're pretty weak. And have pretty low number of good synergies for our deck.
Let's go to Naya.
Ajani vengeant - I like this cat with MLD optiond, removal and board control but 3th loyality is pretty low nowadays for 4 mana planeswalker?
Deflecting palm with infect in meta it could be usefull but not now..
And I couldn't find any usefull cards for our deck... So. Red gives us good planeswalker like Nahiri, Ajani ant etc but other cards are pretty weird and can't stop our best matchup - combo.
According to the results as I see blue have more options how to win combo decks and have good cards against Control and Midrange decks at the same time. Also some good black and red cards are not white that is umportant too. In other word blue - is the second best color for white after black as I see. But black mostly gives us removals while blue gives hate cards that can be good combined with green hatebear cards to interrupt combo decks and problematic mechanics for our deck.
I am on Mardu colors myself. I do have a UW control deck, but I feel going half control/half martyr is iffy. And while control is in a better place in the current meta, it's not Tier 1 destined. Usually with Martyr, sticking around isn't a problem, it's finishing off the opponent before they stabilize. So helix and boros charm are helpful. What I have done a couple times is be at 27-29 life on my end of turn with an Ascendant played (or even less with a Martyr OTB). Helix to their face as they attack with Goyf or something, block with Ascendant. On my turn Boros Charm. 12 damage with Serra. For example. I find I want to play faster, not slower with Martyr Life. When the game goes long I find I just don't have enough juice or offense to win, unless I manage to ult Nahiri. Which is actually more possible with Boros Charm. Incidentally, lack of offense is often my problem with UW control too. Eventually you can't answer everything and you are hoping for Cryptic Command getting your Collonades and Gideon Jura through.
Forgot Wear // Tear, yeah. Missed a lot of spells bcs they're not usefull for Martyr's strategy. GW spells are shown separately bcs we have GW base.
Problem of Boros charm like cards are in their narrowness. They don't improve bad matchups and good only in situations where we're already good.
The idea playing Blue color is not in playing counterspells. Blue and White have a lot of similar cards (Wrath of god - Supreme Verdict, Ghostly prison - Teferi's moat and etc.) so I see this color quite usefull to improve our bad and even matchups. Counterspell is just fine addition for our deck.
Good morning/afternoon/night comrades. Long time no see.
Lear_the_cat I really liked your Glittering Wish deck, but I think this isn't the right meta for it.
Let me explain: A few months ago I've buyed the mono white Martyr Proc, my list was almost exactly a 5-0 list in the MTGO. Here's the list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/506595#paper. The only difference was the 4x Leyline (because of the price).
I think that we have good information there. Some observations:
55% win in the overall (the 53% it's the mean win percentage against the big types: Aggro, Combo, Control and Midrange) . If was a better player playing, the win % maybe was a little better. I've done some mistakes, but some opponents done mistakes too. The win % it's very meta dependant, but in general lines we can say that we are almost a tier 2 deck.
Our best match it's against Aggro (70%+). But I can state that 10% or more percentage it's because of the 4x Ghostly Prison maindeck. Against Merfolk, Humans, Young Pyromancer, Fast Zoo the win came after a resolved Ghostly Prison. Taking out GP will drop significantly the wins against aggro.
Another observation: If you had luck, 2x Ghostly Prison against Delver, Grixis Control, Death's Shadows and Stompy may be key to find time to go late game (Ranger of Eos, Emeria, forecast Proclamation of Rebirth).
Combo is our nightmare. We do not have enough cards to interact with. And MTGO is full of them: 31% of the goal in my Leagues. The most common combo deck is Gx Tron (with Karn and Ugin) and Valakut decks. My win % it's almost zero against these two decks.
Midrange and Control it's a even matchup. Here is the place that a better player could steal some wins. My decisions against Control wasn't the optimal (I still need the feeling about the right choices).
About the Jund match: For me, it's a bad matchup (1 win between 3 matchs). The addition of Kolaghan's Command and Scavenging Ooze made our lategame very weak against they. In my view, each card is a potential threat: Every card we don't answer causes a great card advantage for opponent. I really need help here. If you can post a replays against Jund, it will be great.
Against Abzan I feel much more comfortable: The opponent's Path to Exile leaves our deck to a position we really want: many lands' game.
I've made a mess against UW Control. It's another matchup that I need training. I simply couldn't handle that much planeswalkers: Gideon Jace, Architect of Thought, Elspeth, Sun's Champion. The UW matchup it's my point off the curve (I had three losses, but every match I feel that my decisions brought me the defeat).
Here's the one of the most valuable information: In every league I've faced at least one Valakut/Tron deck. We need to be prepared for theses decks. It's our worst match in the list of most played decks. It's serious, every League had one of these decks.
Eldrazi Tron is bad, but it's much better than Gr Tron. We can win, the big threat is Walking Ballista and Endbringer. Sea Gate Wreckage made me lose two or three games too. After Wrath of God, that land draws a extra card per turn.
The matches that I faced the most were: Eldrazi Tron (8), Valakut (7), Merfolk (7), Burn (7) and Infect (6).
I have other notes, we can discuss them when I remember
Overall, the meta is harmful for MartyrProc. If we had luck in the pairings, the Aggro is very good matchup.
I'm planning do a BW Martyr and play another 100 league matches in MOL. The main problem it's Surgical Extration (25 USD on MOL), Surgical go very well against Valakut (Eldrazi Tron I need test first). Some time later I will put the BW list which is my goal.
Cheers!
Damn, man, I'm so glad that someone posted here for so long time
I even started feeling lonely.
Spread***** and deck will comment later, after work when I'll be able to read and look them carefully.
If you're intered=sted I have some old data from my Martyr matches. It doesn't have comments about matches, I was registering it to see my cash value. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kzHxBcm6JUfnyx-2LtoNvRMqQ-mx4wizrUE0w5xaIPI/edit?usp=sharing
There were also some Eldrazi and D'n'T deck statistics when meta shifted to combo and etc but mostly it's Martyr Proc data.
Reason I'm trying Bant Version with mainboard leylines - it have much better options against combo and discard based decks which are a lot of in current meta. It's not great against Gx Tron but it still have few options to hate this deck.
Glitterinsh wish is a mainboard answer for combo deck and also gives some control options like having 7 Supreme Verdicts in deck and etc.
Why you want to try Orzhov version? What reasons?
Most games I played with Valakut based decks - I only have problems with Breach versions that have Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Annihilator was a killing ability for me in this match up that's why I'm trying green with Sigarada, Host of Herons. She also hates BGx decks pretty nice. If meta will go out from "burn or kick your face with something, I'll drop leylines for Ghostly prisons or Renegade rallier + Ugin). Leyline mainboard is my try to hate curent meta.
Seems to have some interesting elements, including a bit of an equipment subtheme. I am still in the process of building my first list, so I'm not really in a position to know if this is an interesting new angle or suboptimal. Thoughts from some of the more veteran Martyr Proc players on the list?
I'd have to play the list, but on the surface, it looks like it's more aiming for a mid-range kill than late-game inevitability. That's a take on mono-white I haven't seen, but it makes sense. The deck struggles to do much on turns 4-6 in mono-white, and casting and equpping a sword onto a Hawk makes those turns a bit more productive and powerful. I'd like to see how his matchups played out, but I like the list a lot, save the Providences.
Looks like he has havy midrange meta if he's going so much grind and tempo cards.
But. I can't understand no one Flagstones, 3 6th drops, Providence (for real? What for? My friends will now troll me with that card endlessly), Holy day (wth?! Why not Kami or Repel abbomination or how was that new Human-fog from Innistrad?) in sb, Consulate breackdown (Fracturing gust much-much better?).
I think he used some cards for fun amd some of the budget of the deck. We all now that monoW is pretty cheap and can be still effective without some cards.
I've had an argument in a stream chat with someone telling me to try Providence in MartyrProc and then getting upset when I told him that it is literally the worst card I can think of for this deck... he then claimed I wasn't being open minded enough.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
First two games were against merfolks and easy wins.
Third game was against Abzan. Opoonent had very dense distribution of cards so I lost first game. After side I got fine hand with leylines in 7 cards and Sigarda later finished him. In third game outsided some leylines but opp didn't side out discard and got killed witg my board while drawing discard spells for my mpty hand.
On fourth game played against Jeskai midrange. Maindeck supreme verdicts and fast Emeria from Renegade ralliers killed him pretty fine. Post side was about the same scenario.
Fifth game was against Naya burns without Nacatls. First won pretty easy with tonns of martyrs, second was close but killed opponent with Stirring wildwood casting before that leylines to be safe.
Six's game was against merfolks again. Got hardly screwed on blue but got it in time and Supreme verdicted opp's board. After I somehow stabalised with Proclamation but got killed before Emeria got active and lock opponent for end. First game took 45 mins so didn't have any desire to play good next games - it's impossible to win next 2 in 5 mins.
Seventh game was against Esper control with gifts. First game killed him with Sigarda, second game got killed with resolved Iona on white before I was able to activate Emeria or find Proclamation. Third game inded in turn but I think I would loose with my draws of lands against tonns of spirits from Lingering souls.
Eight game was against Jeskai midrange. Won first pretty easy with renegade ralliers and Titan. Next game was very close and got burned to face after long exchanging of resources (opponent draw tonns of CA spells like Cryptic and etc.). Third game ended in turns but if I had few more mins - I'll be able to finish opponent with my dense hand while he didn't have much.
I didn't really like theese cards: Relic of progenitus - hits my graveyard pretty much. Onesided rip like Wheel of sun and moon will be much better. Qasali pridemage - most times I want strong effect of Fracturing gust to get value in 1 turn. Pridemage looks good with all this reanimations but it's too slow. But I still see how he can be usefull in some situations. Pride of the clouds - loosing turn for 1\1 bird isn't really fine... but it's probably bcs I didn't see any one hard control deck. Supreme verdict - I want 2 of them in sb for some situations. So 1 Wrath of god in main instead. Leyline of sanctity - was only usefull against Burn and Abzan but we feel good against them without leylines. So cut them. Ugin, the spirit dragon - mixed fillings. He's a killer of midrange decks but didn't find any Melira and didn't draw against BGx.
So after some thoughts I decided to go to this list:
Dryad militant - main Storm hater, can be returned also by Proclamation. Life from the loam - I'm thinking to try to use them wider against control decks and test against land based decks. Qasali pridemage - not sure about him but let him be. Gaddock Teeg - main combo hater. Meddling mage - Teeg's support. Can hate Storm deck also and some other combo decks. Detention sphere - I don't really like O-ring cards but let it be if I play 2 Sun titans. Supreme verdict - if we can't draw Wrath but used one from sideboard so we have second. Fracturing gust - how to hate artifact and enchantment decks. Sigarda, host of herons - Queen of this deck. Protects from witnesses of Emrakul, kills opponents pretty fast and can defend us pretty fine too. Ajani Unyielding - I really want tutorable planeswalker CA engine. This cat can give CA, clear board and kill opponent with ult. Ugin, the spirit dragon - best killer of midrange decks.
The only thing I don't like - wish zone is pretty big so I don't have much cards to side in and out. Probably it's fine.
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes - I like 6 mana version more (Ajani Unyielding). Hits more types of cards and can clear the board. But this one costs cheaper and kills faster what is good too. Bant Charm - the reason I'm trying not to play spell based cards bcs of recursion inside of my deck with Sun Titans, Renegade ralleris and Emeria. More synergy is much better than some options. Geist of Saint Traft - when was preparing for tournament forgot about this guy. But we have 1 problem with him - it's pretty hard to hit with through full board so I'm using Sigarda for this reason. Immortal Servitude - I think it's a wasted slot. There's Debtors' knell with Emeria like trigger that looks better. But I don't like this card too. Negate - didn't think much about sb negates bcs was focused more on synergy inside deck. Can be good use of slots - will test it a bit. Renegade Rallier - I prefer to use them in main bcs they're insane guys. Good board presence with option of card selection and card advantage the same time. They're ******* strong and humans - good for Cavern of souls. Usually with Wish I wanna find specific cards or removal. Shadow of Doubt - as you said - 2 blue mana is pretty hard to get when it's more like a splash color. Sphinx's Revelation - it's cool. But it's slow even for this meta and we have better options against control and midrange decks. Drain the Well - really intersting finding. Not sure it will be usefull for 4 mana against tron and Valakut deck bcs of it's sluggishness. So where we can use it also?
Charms - as you said, they're just not good enough. They're cool but most options are not really good for our deck. Meddling Mage - is usually a support spell for Teeg but can replace him if we play against Storm deck or need to cast hate not being countered - he's human. In other terms you can just name removal spells or problematic cards. Pretty easy to retun him with most our cards.
Rallier does seem like a good card for a more mid-range build of the deck, which is what Green wants. 3/2 body is a good clock and getting back a fetch to ramp, a downed Serra Ascendant or Martyr, or getting back a Ghost Quarter against Tron is nice. Crack fetch, Sun Titan, Rallier seems fun, too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
3 Proclamation of Rebirth
4 Path to Exile
1 Crucible of worlds
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
11 Plains
2 Mistveil Plains
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Serra Ascendant
1 Sun Titan
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Ghostly Prison
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Stony Silence
2 Disenchant
2 Celestial Purge
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Runed Halo
Probably running this, will give report of the 9 rounds.
Against affinity better not side out RoE, better 1-2 Serras 1-2 Procs bcs they can have chalice or gravehate postside. And it's pretty important to get Martyr from RoE in time.
Against merfolks better side in stony - it's much better to lock them at all rather just kill 1 of possible few more vials.
If you play high number of 1cc creatures you surely want to have 3rd Proclamation to be able to cast one of them for 3 mana sometimes and be more safe for hand disrupt.
I get out Kami of 75 bcs can't see infect - usually main problem for our deck where Kami shines. Kami is also good in hyperagressive meta with Orzhov charm.
About changes you can try this:
-1 Kami +1 Surgical/Runed halo
-1 Proc +1 Crucible
If you aware of Tron better then keep min 3 surgicals in 75. Better 4. Also always remember that after you surged tron piece you have some clock to kill him before he gets manually to his big guys.
I would also recommend to have Hex parasite in side against plancewalkers and chalice.
Most times I played with Endurial Ideal - they git rekt my turn 4-5 Nahiri pretty fast. Postside I also have Hide//Seek so I felt pretty comfortable it that games.
Why not try more Celestial purge in sb to have answers also against problematic planeswalkers as Nahiri and Liliana?
- Crucible
- O ring
- Elspeth
+3 leyline
Considered blessed for proc but left in.
Crucible seemed bad for martyr, and not able to recur via proc or search with ranger seems also bad.
But the plan is to have enough game vs those decks that it won't matter and crucible can pull weight vs tron etc.
Possible it should be weathered wayfarer.
2-0 vs reliquary combo.
- crucible of worlds
- 1 proc
+2 Aven mindcensor
1-0 loss to rg tron
Lose quickly game 1
G2 I attack and say one moment as I think about sun titan trigger and mistveiling to put ascendants on bottom...he blocks mindcensor and I say oh it has flying but I am still doing my trigger. Judge rules by saying that I have moved to blocks and missed the trigger.
As a result game goes to time with him drawing the final card of his library turn 5.
Win 2-1 vs junk
+2 purge
+1 surgical
-Kami
-Crucible
_proc
Lose 1-2 to junk
- Proc
- Kami
- Crucible
- Martyr
+3 leyline
+1 celestial
Last round ended with lotv On 1 loyalty and me with a wrath and Elspeth with five lands. I don't draw a land in six draws pitching spells and holding an Elspeth till a lotv ultimate... Yep
Win 2-1 vs restore balance
+2 surgical
+ 2 purge
+ 2 stony
- wrath
- Elspeth
- Martyr
- Sun titan
- O ring
- Kami
1-1 "draw" vs burn
Mulled to five and lost quick game 1. 45 min left on clock.
G2 I have double leyline and triple prison. Swinging with 3 recurring Hawks. Opponent looks at time. Spends five min getting new pen. I am putting Hawks on bottom and then casting. He insists on shuffling for 1 minute each time.
I ask to speed play 7 times. I call judge. None comes, he says he will just concede. He thinks a minute. He says he will play out. (after a judge didnt come) Says he wants to play till lethal, his turns take few minutes. I call judge, he immediately scoops. I ask judge to watch, he says he will be back soon. 15 min on clock.
He comes back in five minutes. Opponent still sideboarding. Opponent spends another five min with judge there. Judge asks to go faster.
We start round 3 with 5 min. I have double leyline. 5 min on clock.
Time is called after he passes. I say turn 0. Judge is looking into space. I past turn, he says turn 2. I complain, judge says just keep playing and we fix at end if I want to appeal.
Ends on turn 5, actually turn 4, I on 40 life with 3 ascendant, ranger, and Kami on board. Oppponent has nothing. I say turn 5, judge says have to appeal. Opponent immediately scoops his cards away when judge leaves and signs result slip 1-1. Making it impossible to play out last turn and swing.
Head kudge asks why I didn't ask earlier about stalling. I say I did but judge advised to keep going. They say too late now. I ask if sideboarding for 10 minute is reasonable, head judge says no...but too late and it was first judges error.. I complain that I have lethal on board and it is actually turn 5, but no avail as opponents card are put away.
Win 2-1 vs four colour tokens.
And bust 0-2 vs junk...drew seven lands in a row twice, next card was wrath one game, next was the land needed for sun titan
5-3-1
Moving forward crucible should be wayfarer or surgical main.
Devastated by my burn match result, was so shocking the incompetence of the first judge.
Thank you for report! I will comment it a bit later, have some questions.
About Bant Martyr. Currently I'm on this list:
2 Emeria, the sky ruin
2 Mistveil plains
3 Hallowed fountain
2 Temple garden
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Horizon canopy
4 Windswept heath
4 Flooded strand
1 Gavony township
1 Ghost quarter
1 Cavern of souls
4 Path to exile
4 Martyr of sands
2 Serra ascendant
1 Weathered wayfarer
1 Thraben inspector
2cc (7):
4 Squadron hawk
3 Glittering wish
3cc (8):
3 Renegade rallier
3 Ghostly prison
2 Proclamation of rebirth
4cc (7):
4 Ranger of eos
3 Supreme verdict
2 Sun titan
1 Hex parasite
1 Dryad Militant
1 Wheel of sun and moon
1 Qasali pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meddling mage
1 Bant charm
1 Supreme verdict
3 Leyline of sanctity
1 Fracturing gust
1 Sigarda, host of herons
1 Dragonlord dromoka
1 Sphinx's revelation
Have only 1 gravehate card and feel a bit uncomfortable but don't have free spots for 3 min gravehate usual cards (like Surgical, relics and etc.)
Not sure about spots of Wheel, Sphere and Dromoka. Wheels is pretty narrow for this meta. Sphere is only answer for planeswalkers for mainboard and Dromoka dies to PtE pretty easy... She's good against nonwhite control decks.
I also want to add Saffi Eriksdotter to SB to have options to grind with Renegade rallier.
Also have idea to use at 100% of Wish and Rallier with this list:
2 Emeria, the sky ruin
2 Mistveil plains
3 Hallowed fountain
3 Temple garden
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Horizon canopy
3 Windswept heath
4 Flooded strand
1 Gavony township
1 Ghost quarter
1 Cavern of souls
4 Path to exile
4 Martyr of sands
2 Serra ascendant
1 Weathered wayfarer
1 Thraben inspector
2cc (8):
4 Squadron hawk
4 Glittering wish
3cc (6):
4 Renegade rallier
2 Proclamation of rebirth
4cc (7):
4 Ranger of eos
3 Supreme verdict
6cc (2):
2 Sun titan
1 Ugin the spirit dragon
1 Hex parasite
1 Dryad Militant
1 Wheel of sun and moon
1 Qasali pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meddling mage
1 Bant charm
1 Supreme verdict
3 Leyline of sanctity
1 Fracturing gust
1 Sigarda, host of herons
1 Dragonlord dromoka
1 Sphinx's revelation
It better supports idea of working with SB and Rallier could also ramp to Ugin to help to answer to most treats in modern. But not playing prisons in agressive meta feels a bit bad.
What do you think?
Also it can support LD plan to help to lock with Ghostly prisons. Especially good against control decks when you have Tectonic edge - they will just never get more than 3 mana.
About second game against tron. Did you call for higher judge to resolve this situation? As you're saying it looks like cheating. I can't understand how you went to blocks when you still remember about trigger and resolving it while opponent is in space.
Against BGx here is usual sb plan I would reccomend if we will take your list:
Side IN:
+2 Celestial purge - answer for Lily and extra removal spell for Bob and etc.
+1 Blessed alliance - extra removal spell
+2 Aven mindcensor - Flying creature, sometimes helps to keep them from lands
+3 Leyline of sanctity - turns off their discard spells and - abilities of Lily.
Side OUT:
-4 Ghostly prison - don't do much. They still can keep attacking, most times go for +1 of Lily and could be easily killed by Abrupt decay or Maelstrom pulse.
-2 Proclamation of rebirth - with tonns of gravehate (especially postside) and discard it just doesn't work.
-1 Serra ascendant - pretty weak bcs we rarely have 30+ life.
-1 Kami of false hope - doesn't do much against number of instant speed removals and we don't have any planeswalker to protect.
About situation of Elspeth - that's why we play Crucible. If you don't wanna play crucible then try second Sun titan instead and keep Elspeth in sb.
About slowplaing. Sad to say but happens often in magic and better be prepared for that especially if you play Martyr Proc (we don't have wincons that fast enough). And understand when to call judge to watch is really important. I can only sympathize with thi situation bcs went myself through it several times.
So that's why better have wristwatch on hand and be able to watch for your time.
If you don't like descisions of some judge it's okay to report wizards about them.
Anyway congrats with 5-3-1 - not a bad result. Keep progressing to see you in top 8 or a winner of some GP
////
Guys, I'm looking at current meta on Mtggoldfish. What do you think about mainboard Leyline of sanctity? As I see - they hit pretty much top decks to let us play better against them first game.
Happy that you do good, guys. Bcs I can't for last year
Let's start from the shortest question.
Why Leylines. Let's look at modern meta and find cards that this spell can turn off some cards or strategies:
About your questions:
About tests online - I;m trying cockatrice but it's not really great place for tests. So I can't do much with this
Okay. About Martyr of wishes.
Let's start from green multicolor spells as base:
GW options:
Also it worth to mention Life from the loam that could do incredible job of activating Emeria and LD plan for clear Selesnya variant of deck.
UW options we can get:
Banr options:
Blue color adds mostly CA spells and some tutors in Bant colors. Also UW spells contains idea of monoW hate cards like Meddling mage - Nevermore, Ghostly prison - Teferi's moat and etc.
Also there's incredible Dovescape - best card against spell based decks if we can put it on battlefield. (to be honest - we can play it in GW version xD)
About Simik colored spells. Only interesting card can be Kruphix, God of Horizons - to cast or Ugin and other hard castable cards much earlier.
ABout Abzan colors we can get:
Let's go to Naya.
According to the results as I see blue have more options how to win combo decks and have good cards against Control and Midrange decks at the same time. Also some good black and red cards are not white that is umportant too. In other word blue - is the second best color for white after black as I see. But black mostly gives us removals while blue gives hate cards that can be good combined with green hatebear cards to interrupt combo decks and problematic mechanics for our deck.
But things like:
Wear//Tear
Destructive Revelry
Atarkas Command
Boros Charm
Dragonlord Dromoka
Dromoka's Command
I am on Mardu colors myself. I do have a UW control deck, but I feel going half control/half martyr is iffy. And while control is in a better place in the current meta, it's not Tier 1 destined. Usually with Martyr, sticking around isn't a problem, it's finishing off the opponent before they stabilize. So helix and boros charm are helpful. What I have done a couple times is be at 27-29 life on my end of turn with an Ascendant played (or even less with a Martyr OTB). Helix to their face as they attack with Goyf or something, block with Ascendant. On my turn Boros Charm. 12 damage with Serra. For example. I find I want to play faster, not slower with Martyr Life. When the game goes long I find I just don't have enough juice or offense to win, unless I manage to ult Nahiri. Which is actually more possible with Boros Charm. Incidentally, lack of offense is often my problem with UW control too. Eventually you can't answer everything and you are hoping for Cryptic Command getting your Collonades and Gideon Jura through.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Problem of Boros charm like cards are in their narrowness. They don't improve bad matchups and good only in situations where we're already good.
The idea playing Blue color is not in playing counterspells. Blue and White have a lot of similar cards (Wrath of god - Supreme Verdict, Ghostly prison - Teferi's moat and etc.) so I see this color quite usefull to improve our bad and even matchups. Counterspell is just fine addition for our deck.
Lear_the_cat I really liked your Glittering Wish deck, but I think this isn't the right meta for it.
Let me explain: A few months ago I've buyed the mono white Martyr Proc, my list was almost exactly a 5-0 list in the MTGO. Here's the list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/506595#paper. The only difference was the 4x Leyline (because of the price).
Here's my list, for note:
11 Plains
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Mistveil Plains
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Creatures (19)
1 Sun Titan
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Martyr of Sands
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Path to Exile
4 Wrath of God
1 Banishing Light
3 Proclamation of Rebirth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Hex Parasite
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
2 Celestial Purge
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
I've played 100 matches in the Leagues of MTGO, and made a Spreadsheet with all matches detailed.
I've missed only the exactly number of matches in the Competitive and Friendly Leagues, but I think it was 80% Friendly and 20% Competitive.
The spreadsheet it's based on the Demannic's. The link is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1esInaX2cQj3VZCdia08hc22OH2_7MSCL-kTBHmonlGI/edit?usp=sharing.
I think that we have good information there. Some observations:
I have other notes, we can discuss them when I remember
Overall, the meta is harmful for MartyrProc. If we had luck in the pairings, the Aggro is very good matchup.
I'm planning do a BW Martyr and play another 100 league matches in MOL. The main problem it's Surgical Extration (25 USD on MOL), Surgical go very well against Valakut (Eldrazi Tron I need test first). Some time later I will put the BW list which is my goal.
Cheers!
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
I even started feeling lonely.
Spread***** and deck will comment later, after work when I'll be able to read and look them carefully.
If you're intered=sted I have some old data from my Martyr matches. It doesn't have comments about matches, I was registering it to see my cash value.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kzHxBcm6JUfnyx-2LtoNvRMqQ-mx4wizrUE0w5xaIPI/edit?usp=sharing
There were also some Eldrazi and D'n'T deck statistics when meta shifted to combo and etc but mostly it's Martyr Proc data.
Reason I'm trying Bant Version with mainboard leylines - it have much better options against combo and discard based decks which are a lot of in current meta. It's not great against Gx Tron but it still have few options to hate this deck.
Glitterinsh wish is a mainboard answer for combo deck and also gives some control options like having 7 Supreme Verdicts in deck and etc.
Why you want to try Orzhov version? What reasons?
Most games I played with Valakut based decks - I only have problems with Breach versions that have Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Annihilator was a killing ability for me in this match up that's why I'm trying green with Sigarada, Host of Herons. She also hates BGx decks pretty nice. If meta will go out from "burn or kick your face with something, I'll drop leylines for Ghostly prisons or Renegade rallier + Ugin). Leyline mainboard is my try to hate curent meta.
Seems to have some interesting elements, including a bit of an equipment subtheme. I am still in the process of building my first list, so I'm not really in a position to know if this is an interesting new angle or suboptimal. Thoughts from some of the more veteran Martyr Proc players on the list?
But. I can't understand no one Flagstones, 3 6th drops, Providence (for real? What for? My friends will now troll me with that card endlessly), Holy day (wth?! Why not Kami or Repel abbomination or how was that new Human-fog from Innistrad?) in sb, Consulate breackdown (Fracturing gust much-much better?).
I think he used some cards for fun amd some of the budget of the deck. We all now that monoW is pretty cheap and can be still effective without some cards.
Was playing this list:
2 Emeria, the sky ruin
2 Mistveil plains
2 Hallowed fountain
3 Temple garden
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Stirring wildwood
4 Windswept heath
4 Flooded strand
1 Gavony township
1 Ghost quarter
1 Cavern of souls
4 Path to exile
4 Martyr of sands
2 Serra ascendant
1 Weathered wayfarer
1 Thraben inspector
1 Kami of false hope
2cc (8):
4 Squadron hawk
4 Glittering wish
3cc (6):
4 Renegade rallier
2 Proclamation of rebirth
4cc (7):
4 Ranger of eos
3 Supreme verdict
2 Sun titan
1 Hex parasite
2 Relic of progenitus
1 Life from the loam
1 Qasali pridemage
1 Pride of the clouds
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meddling mage
1 Supreme verdict
4 Leyline of sanctity
1 Sigarda, host of herons
1 Ugin, the spirit dragon
First two games were against merfolks and easy wins.
Third game was against Abzan. Opoonent had very dense distribution of cards so I lost first game. After side I got fine hand with leylines in 7 cards and Sigarda later finished him. In third game outsided some leylines but opp didn't side out discard and got killed witg my board while drawing discard spells for my mpty hand.
On fourth game played against Jeskai midrange. Maindeck supreme verdicts and fast Emeria from Renegade ralliers killed him pretty fine. Post side was about the same scenario.
Fifth game was against Naya burns without Nacatls. First won pretty easy with tonns of martyrs, second was close but killed opponent with Stirring wildwood casting before that leylines to be safe.
Six's game was against merfolks again. Got hardly screwed on blue but got it in time and Supreme verdicted opp's board. After I somehow stabalised with Proclamation but got killed before Emeria got active and lock opponent for end. First game took 45 mins so didn't have any desire to play good next games - it's impossible to win next 2 in 5 mins.
Seventh game was against Esper control with gifts. First game killed him with Sigarda, second game got killed with resolved Iona on white before I was able to activate Emeria or find Proclamation. Third game inded in turn but I think I would loose with my draws of lands against tonns of spirits from Lingering souls.
Eight game was against Jeskai midrange. Won first pretty easy with renegade ralliers and Titan. Next game was very close and got burned to face after long exchanging of resources (opponent draw tonns of CA spells like Cryptic and etc.). Third game ended in turns but if I had few more mins - I'll be able to finish opponent with my dense hand while he didn't have much.
I didn't really like theese cards:
Relic of progenitus - hits my graveyard pretty much. Onesided rip like Wheel of sun and moon will be much better.
Qasali pridemage - most times I want strong effect of Fracturing gust to get value in 1 turn. Pridemage looks good with all this reanimations but it's too slow. But I still see how he can be usefull in some situations.
Pride of the clouds - loosing turn for 1\1 bird isn't really fine... but it's probably bcs I didn't see any one hard control deck.
Supreme verdict - I want 2 of them in sb for some situations. So 1 Wrath of god in main instead.
Leyline of sanctity - was only usefull against Burn and Abzan but we feel good against them without leylines. So cut them.
Ugin, the spirit dragon - mixed fillings. He's a killer of midrange decks but didn't find any Melira and didn't draw against BGx.
So after some thoughts I decided to go to this list:
2 Emeria, the sky ruin
2 Mistveil plains
2 Hallowed fountain
3 Temple garden
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Stirring wildwood
4 Windswept heath
4 Flooded strand
1 Gavony township
1 Ghost quarter
1 Cavern of souls
1cc (13):
4 Path to exile
4 Martyr of sands
2 Serra ascendant
1 Weathered wayfarer
1 Thraben inspector
1 Kami of false hope
4 Squadron hawk
4 Glittering wish
3cc (6):
4 Renegade rallier
2 Proclamation of rebirth
4cc (7):
4 Ranger of eos
2 Supreme verdict
1 Wrath of god
6cc (2):
2 Sun titan
1 Hex parasite
1 Dryad militant
2 Life from the loam
1 Wheel of sun and moon
1 Qasali pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meddling mage
1 Detention sphere
2 Supreme verdict
1 Fracturing gust
1 Sigarda, host of herons
1 Ajani Unyielding
1 Ugin, the spirit dragon
Dryad militant - main Storm hater, can be returned also by Proclamation.
Life from the loam - I'm thinking to try to use them wider against control decks and test against land based decks.
Qasali pridemage - not sure about him but let him be.
Gaddock Teeg - main combo hater.
Meddling mage - Teeg's support. Can hate Storm deck also and some other combo decks.
Detention sphere - I don't really like O-ring cards but let it be if I play 2 Sun titans.
Supreme verdict - if we can't draw Wrath but used one from sideboard so we have second.
Fracturing gust - how to hate artifact and enchantment decks.
Sigarda, host of herons - Queen of this deck. Protects from witnesses of Emrakul, kills opponents pretty fast and can defend us pretty fine too.
Ajani Unyielding - I really want tutorable planeswalker CA engine. This cat can give CA, clear board and kill opponent with ult.
Ugin, the spirit dragon - best killer of midrange decks.
The only thing I don't like - wish zone is pretty big so I don't have much cards to side in and out. Probably it's fine.
Bant Charm - the reason I'm trying not to play spell based cards bcs of recursion inside of my deck with Sun Titans, Renegade ralleris and Emeria. More synergy is much better than some options.
Geist of Saint Traft - when was preparing for tournament forgot about this guy. But we have 1 problem with him - it's pretty hard to hit with through full board so I'm using Sigarda for this reason.
Immortal Servitude - I think it's a wasted slot. There's Debtors' knell with Emeria like trigger that looks better. But I don't like this card too.
Negate - didn't think much about sb negates bcs was focused more on synergy inside deck. Can be good use of slots - will test it a bit.
Renegade Rallier - I prefer to use them in main bcs they're insane guys. Good board presence with option of card selection and card advantage the same time. They're ******* strong and humans - good for Cavern of souls. Usually with Wish I wanna find specific cards or removal.
Shadow of Doubt - as you said - 2 blue mana is pretty hard to get when it's more like a splash color.
Sphinx's Revelation - it's cool. But it's slow even for this meta and we have better options against control and midrange decks.
Drain the Well - really intersting finding. Not sure it will be usefull for 4 mana against tron and Valakut deck bcs of it's sluggishness. So where we can use it also?
Charms - as you said, they're just not good enough. They're cool but most options are not really good for our deck.
Meddling Mage - is usually a support spell for Teeg but can replace him if we play against Storm deck or need to cast hate not being countered - he's human. In other terms you can just name removal spells or problematic cards. Pretty easy to retun him with most our cards.