I feel very similar to you on Nahiri, Mr. Buttons. I was always curious about Ajani Vengeant in the same role: a value engine that also just blows them out at the end - and imagine Nahiri's card draw is better at generating that value, but I still feel like it's just a late game threat, which this deck has a lot of already. It also forces the manabase to be much softer to Blood Moon, since you either have to run fewer basics or cut down on Ghost Quarters, like David has done. I may just be grumpy because it's expensive to buy into, though. I'd like to try it and see if the results are any better than what I can already do with BW.
Interesting that you're not missing Anguished Unmaking. I keep sideboarding it out a lot, so I think replacing it might be something I try. The format seems to not punish you too much for not having maindeck non-creature hate right now.
@Napkin
Interesting idea. I actually have all the pieces to mardu control/tokens. It shouldn't be too hard for me to pick up a few more cards and try something out. If you get off the "white cards only" thing it opens up room for 1 mana discard which helps smooth out matchups from everything being 80-20 or 20-80. Toolbox ranger proc seems like a fun idea.
I played 3 casual matches with it vs decks that were completely not meta (except Ad Nauseam) and won each game. I'm not claiming this deck is great, but it is really fun.
I think I experimented with something similar and I ended up really enjoying Judge's Familiar alongside the Dryad Militant and Figure of Destiny. Thraben Inspector seems fantastic for it and Grim Lavamancer and Dragon Master outcast are great excuses to use Red. No one really runs Chalice in Modern, so that's a plus. Seems like a lot of fun.
I was on esper for a brief period. I ended up cutting all the blue cards except sky hussar (because all the other blue cards are either not worth it or worse than white alternatives)
Here's what it looked like more or less http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/301381#online
I'm pretty sure I went up to 4 maindeck lingering souls after that.
Decklist in the primer is from a GP that happened about 2 years ago. I know there are a few mono white players, maybe one of them could post a recent decklist?
A quick search in this thread tells me that no one has talked about myth realized
Gets through the wraths, is white and is a threat. It fits within the control gameplan but I don't know if it's what the deck wants (plus, it's a nonbo with suppression field).
i tried it. i didnt like the fact that it didnt really have an immediat on the board. in most cases it was as bad as ascendant when below 30. takes too much effort to make threatening, you cant tutor for it or renimate it. the worst part about is that you have to pay mana to activate it. even if you play it turn one, its not big enough to kill stuff untill turn 8-10ish, and thats if youve only played removal, but at that point its probably okay at that point, though most other threats are as well.
Lost only to tron.decks and 50-50 matchup with Infect. Other decks are mostly + Shambling vent looks much more better against aggro/midrange decks and don't interrupt assembling Emeria. Crackling doom is really good card against Infect players and opponent's Emrakul.
About match ups.
With BGx match up become + preside and really good + postside. Blood moon and Nahiri do really well against them.
Infect is 50-50. All we need - early interaction with our opponents in both games. Blood moon can lock unprepared infect player really well.
RG tron and most tron decks become really bad match up after new cards that gave them new sets. I think it's juct better to forget of winning tron decks.
After playing theese 2 weeks I come to current list:
I added 1 Blood crypt to have better option of activating Shambling vent and the same time having option to cast red spells. Also it let us cast BR, BB, WBR costs much easier.
I refused playing Surgical extractions bcs I don't see any option to somehow iprove match up with tron deck. Added 2 Nihil spellbomb as gravehate and 1 extra Curse of death's hold against elves, BGx, Infect and etc.
As I said earlier - Crackling doom is amazing against Infect and Emrakul.
2 Slaughter games against combo decks. Eidolon of rhetoric isn't really fast and ultimative and I decided to play a bit slower but much better hate cards. Crucible of worlds - didn't really know what to add and put this instead of Elspeth, sun's champion to save our manabase.
Vs Jund:
In
1 Hex parasite - against Lili, counters on OOze, Ravine and etc.
3 Blood moon - best lock card ever
1 Anguished unmaking - extra answer for noncreature, nonlan permaments and extra removal
1 Curse of death's hold - no bobes, less power/toughness for your creatures
Out
3 Serra ascendant - not really good topdeck postside
3 Proclamation of rebirth - they get much more gravehate postside
Shambling Vent is definitely something to look out for. I've found myself tripping up in the 2-4 slot when I don't have an extra instance of lifegain. Being able to drop that turn 3 (and still have Sqhawk mana up) and then start swinging turn 4 if need be seems legit. No reason to not go all in on non-basics with Blood Moon not being as much of a threat as usual and us already running 66% or more non-basics anyway.
1. I think Sun Titan and Blood Baron are about equal (depending on meta) and Elspeth is significantly worse than both. Blood Baron is a house in BG/x heavy metas, while Sun Titan is very good against decks UR decks that can't just Terminate it. Elspeth hasn't impressed me, but others are higher on it than me.
2. I think it's safe to take one out in stuff where the removal is damage based, because she's not flexible and forces you to be at thirty to not eat their removal. Burn and Jund, for example, where getting and staying at 30 is a major challenge, means she's just going to chump and die or get bolted.
3. Relic of Progenitus is solid, Extirpate is good, I've had fun with Wheel of Sun and Moon but I have Mill and Lantern players in my meta. If most of your need for it comes from Snapcaster or Reanimator, I think Extirpate is good. If it's mostly Goyfs and Ooze's, I think you go Relic of Progenitus.
4. Not big on Figure of Destiny as anything other than a fetchable threat very late, but if you've made it to 8-9 mana to activate it in one go, you're pretty close to Emeria active and therefore not needing it. I like Runed Halo much better than Nevermore because it hits a turn earlier and can name lands. Haven't played with it, but imagine it's fine to stop combos like Valakut or Inkmoth, as well as having corner value to just name their best beater.
5. I tried Solemn Visitor and it didn't do enough for me. Lord of Innistrad's token producer being a plus ability that drops a lifelink chump might make it better.
my tests with the two sorins ends out with lord of innistrad is the better of the two. solemns ult is by far better and in most cases gamewinning, but the fact that his + abbility is more or less useless makes him not as good. lord gives a blocker when you + him.
the last few FNMs didn't go too well. While I'm still switching stuff around in my list (black splash), I have some questions to more experienced MartyrProggers:
1st: How do you feel about Sun Titan, Elspeth, Sun's Champion and especially Blood Baron of Vizkopa? If the 6/6 Serra Ascendant plan doesn't work out or there is graveyard hate, other finishers are needed, but which one is the best? (I'm not on the money to go red splash for Nahiri)
2nd: In which matchups is boarding out Serra Ascendant an option?
3rd: What is in your opinion the best graveyard hate?
4th: Thoughts on Nevermore, Runed Halo, Figure of Destiniy and especially Hex Parasite? Even though I originally suggested trying Hex Parasite in the sideboard, I haven't had that much success with it.
1: Blood Baron is excellent vs BGx decks as previously stated. I think Elspeth is better than sun titan, but both are comparable in power level. They are both slow, but take the game over in matchups where you want to win a durdle-fest. This doesn't include BGx since if that is what you are expecting Blood Baron is better by a lot.
2: matchups which are very much in your favor and when you won game 1. Generally this is the aggressive ones. You can side out win conditions and just slow the game down to the point where they cannot win and you can fetch one up later, or just take a 1-0-1 victory. I'm not saying that you should slow play, I'm saying to play at a reasonable pace, but slowroll the victory like a miracles player.
3) Extirpate or Rest in peace. I used to like wheel, but it is just so much worse than RIP in most situations. Everything else is a downgrade from those. The reason RIP is better than wheel is that a lot of times when wheel would be good, proc is not that good. You can easily go low on the recursion and play the more potent hate card.
4) I personally hate all of the name a card enchantments, but I know others have had success with Runed Halo. Figure is not needed for the most part, but Hex Parasite is amazing. Hex parasite is great vs affinity, planeswalkers (nahiri, karn, etc), and randomly hoses other things that rely on counters.
5) I really like Solemn Visitor as a blood baron alternative if you have lingering souls in your deck. Not as good vs BGx, but better in other matchups instead. It is pretty easy to ult him as well. If you have some random chumps out when you cast him, then follow him up with a wrath of god you are in the clear.
Once I draw 10 lands in a row against Naya burn.
After that I didn't play magic for a month.
Or last week I had one landers in 70% of starting hands on tournaments.
That feeled weird :]
Take a rest for a week or two. And return to a game.
Added 3 Blood moons in maind cutting 1 Proclamation of rebirth with idea that in most 1st games we will lock our opponent with moon and easily go to Forecast ability.
Added 2nd Crackling doom and 1 Kami of false hope against infect and Emrakul decks.
Returned Elspeth for midrange decks.
Still not sure for Crucible of worlds but I think it's nesseccary for LD plan and synergy with Nahiri.
The main questions: I wanna cut 2 Stony silence for extra side cards and return Surgical extractions. How this changes will affect on matchup with affinity and other artifact decks?
What do you think?
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Interesting that you're not missing Anguished Unmaking. I keep sideboarding it out a lot, so I think replacing it might be something I try. The format seems to not punish you too much for not having maindeck non-creature hate right now.
Interesting idea. I actually have all the pieces to mardu control/tokens. It shouldn't be too hard for me to pick up a few more cards and try something out. If you get off the "white cards only" thing it opens up room for 1 mana discard which helps smooth out matchups from everything being 80-20 or 20-80. Toolbox ranger proc seems like a fun idea.
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
1 Swamp
1 Shambling Vent
1 Hex Parasite
1 Needle Spires
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Path to Exile
4 Marsh Flats
3 Godless Shrine
4 Orzhov Charm
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Wrath of God
3 Proclamation of Rebirth
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Blighted Fen
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Thraben Inspector
1 Perimeter Captain
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Dryad Militant
2 Stony Silence
1 Elvish Hexhunter
2 Wrath of God
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
1 Perimeter Captain
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
But I am still trying to make Ayli work.
If I had The deck in MOL would be so good
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
Here's what it looked like more or less http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/301381#online
I'm pretty sure I went up to 4 maindeck lingering souls after that.
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
Gets through the wraths, is white and is a threat. It fits within the control gameplan but I don't know if it's what the deck wants (plus, it's a nonbo with suppression field).
has anyone tested it?
L: Maverick
Last 2 weeks played this list very successfully:
1 Emeria, the sky ruin
2 Mistveil plains
4 Ghost quarter
4 Marsh flats
3 Sacred foundry
2 Godless shrine
2 Shambling vent
4 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1cc (15):
1 Kami of false hope
1 Thraben inspector
1 Weathered wayfarer
4 Serra ascendant
4 Martyr of sands
4 Path to exile
4 Squadron hawk
3cc (5):
2 Anguished unmaking
3 Proclamation of rebirth
4cc (11):
4 Wrath of god
3 Nahiri, the harbinger
4 Ranger of Eos
15cc (1):
1 Emrakul, the Aeons torn
3 Surgical extraction
1 Hex parasite
2 Stony silence
3 Blood moon
1 Anguished unmaking
2 Crackling doom
1 Eidolon of rhetoric
1 Linvala, keeper of silence
1 Elspeth, sun's champion
Lost only to tron.decks and 50-50 matchup with Infect. Other decks are mostly +
Shambling vent looks much more better against aggro/midrange decks and don't interrupt assembling Emeria.
Crackling doom is really good card against Infect players and opponent's Emrakul.
About match ups.
With BGx match up become + preside and really good + postside. Blood moon and Nahiri do really well against them.
Infect is 50-50. All we need - early interaction with our opponents in both games. Blood moon can lock unprepared infect player really well.
RG tron and most tron decks become really bad match up after new cards that gave them new sets. I think it's juct better to forget of winning tron decks.
After playing theese 2 weeks I come to current list:
1 Emeria, the sky ruin
1 Mistveil plains
4 Ghost quarter
4 Marsh flats
3 Sacred foundry
2 Godless shrine
1 Blood crypt
2 Shambling vent
4 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1cc (15):
1 Kami of false hope
1 Thraben inspector
1 Weathered wayfarer
4 Serra ascendant
4 Martyr of sands
4 Path to exile
4 Squadron hawk
3cc (5):
2 Anguished unmaking
3 Proclamation of rebirth
4cc (11):
4 Wrath of god
3 Nahiri, the harbinger
4 Ranger of Eos
15cc (1):
1 Emrakul, the Aeons torn
2 Nihil spellbomb
1 Hex parasite
2 Stony silence
3 Blood moon
1 Anguished unmaking
2 Crackling doom
1 Crucible of worlds
2 Slaughter games
2 Curse of death's hold
I added 1 Blood crypt to have better option of activating Shambling vent and the same time having option to cast red spells. Also it let us cast BR, BB, WBR costs much easier.
I refused playing Surgical extractions bcs I don't see any option to somehow iprove match up with tron deck. Added 2 Nihil spellbomb as gravehate and 1 extra Curse of death's hold against elves, BGx, Infect and etc.
As I said earlier - Crackling doom is amazing against Infect and Emrakul.
2 Slaughter games against combo decks. Eidolon of rhetoric isn't really fast and ultimative and I decided to play a bit slower but much better hate cards.
Crucible of worlds - didn't really know what to add and put this instead of Elspeth, sun's champion to save our manabase.
1 Tectonic edge
1 Cavern of souls
1 Godless shrine
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Ghost quarter
2 Emeria, the sky ruin
2 Mistveil plains
9 Plains
1cc (14):
1 Kami of False Hope
4 Martyr of sands
4 Serra ascendant
4 Path to exile
1 Weathered wayfarer
4 Squadron hawk
3cc (7):
4 Ghostly prison
3 Proclamation of rebirth
4cc (8):
4 Ranger of eos
4 Wrath of god
6cc (3):
2 Sun titan
1 Terminus
2 Engineered explosives
2 Surgical extraction
1 Kami of false hope
2 Stony silence
1 Crucible of worlds
4 Leyline of sanctity
1 Austere command
1 Elspeth, sun's champion
1 Ugin, the spirit dragon
In
1 Hex parasite - against Lili, counters on OOze, Ravine and etc.
3 Blood moon - best lock card ever
1 Anguished unmaking - extra answer for noncreature, nonlan permaments and extra removal
1 Curse of death's hold - no bobes, less power/toughness for your creatures
Out
3 Serra ascendant - not really good topdeck postside
3 Proclamation of rebirth - they get much more gravehate postside
Vs Affinity:
In
2 Stony silence
2 Curse of death's hold
Out
1 Serra ascendant
1 Weathered wayfarer - very slow and most time useless
2 Proclamation of rebirth - gravehate postside
Vs Infect
In
3 Blood moon - best lock card ever. Very funny to see opp's face that has no green source
2 Crackling doom - wanna kill me? Try it
2 Curse of death's hold - if we went in midgame - it kills infect
Out
1 Weathered wayfarer - slow and useless
2 Serra ascendant - early 6/6 ascendan is irrelevant most time. Better have more answers
1 Martyr of sands - not really important in this game
2 Anguished unmaking - costs too much and can't kill Inkmoth Nexus
1 Wrath of god - a bit too slow.
Vs Abzan CoCo:
In
2 Nihil spellbomb
2 Curse of death's hold
Out
2 Anguished unmaking - not really usefull for 3rd cost
2 Proclamation of rebirth - a lot of answers and gravehate postside
2. I think it's safe to take one out in stuff where the removal is damage based, because she's not flexible and forces you to be at thirty to not eat their removal. Burn and Jund, for example, where getting and staying at 30 is a major challenge, means she's just going to chump and die or get bolted.
3. Relic of Progenitus is solid, Extirpate is good, I've had fun with Wheel of Sun and Moon but I have Mill and Lantern players in my meta. If most of your need for it comes from Snapcaster or Reanimator, I think Extirpate is good. If it's mostly Goyfs and Ooze's, I think you go Relic of Progenitus.
4. Not big on Figure of Destiny as anything other than a fetchable threat very late, but if you've made it to 8-9 mana to activate it in one go, you're pretty close to Emeria active and therefore not needing it. I like Runed Halo much better than Nevermore because it hits a turn earlier and can name lands. Haven't played with it, but imagine it's fine to stop combos like Valakut or Inkmoth, as well as having corner value to just name their best beater.
5. I tried Solemn Visitor and it didn't do enough for me. Lord of Innistrad's token producer being a plus ability that drops a lifelink chump might make it better.
1: Blood Baron is excellent vs BGx decks as previously stated. I think Elspeth is better than sun titan, but both are comparable in power level. They are both slow, but take the game over in matchups where you want to win a durdle-fest. This doesn't include BGx since if that is what you are expecting Blood Baron is better by a lot.
2: matchups which are very much in your favor and when you won game 1. Generally this is the aggressive ones. You can side out win conditions and just slow the game down to the point where they cannot win and you can fetch one up later, or just take a 1-0-1 victory. I'm not saying that you should slow play, I'm saying to play at a reasonable pace, but slowroll the victory like a miracles player.
3) Extirpate or Rest in peace. I used to like wheel, but it is just so much worse than RIP in most situations. Everything else is a downgrade from those. The reason RIP is better than wheel is that a lot of times when wheel would be good, proc is not that good. You can easily go low on the recursion and play the more potent hate card.
4) I personally hate all of the name a card enchantments, but I know others have had success with Runed Halo. Figure is not needed for the most part, but Hex Parasite is amazing. Hex parasite is great vs affinity, planeswalkers (nahiri, karn, etc), and randomly hoses other things that rely on counters.
5) I really like Solemn Visitor as a blood baron alternative if you have lingering souls in your deck. Not as good vs BGx, but better in other matchups instead. It is pretty easy to ult him as well. If you have some random chumps out when you cast him, then follow him up with a wrath of god you are in the clear.
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
:]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
the round 2 topdeck blues keep haunting me lmao. feeling so jaded there needs to be a new kind of tilt for this
After that I didn't play magic for a month.
Or last week I had one landers in 70% of starting hands on tournaments.
That feeled weird :]
Take a rest for a week or two. And return to a game.
Also, I thought about this variation of list:
1 Emeria, the sky ruin
1 Mistveil plains
3 Ghost quarter
4 Marsh flats
1 Arid mesa
2 Shambling vent
3 Sacred foundry
2 Godless shrine
1 Blood crypt
4 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Kami of false hope
1 Thraben inspector
1 Weathered wayfarer
4 Serra ascendant
4 Martyr of sands
4 Path to exile
2cc (4):
4 Squadron hawk
3cc (5):
3 Blood moon
2 Proclamation of rebirth
4cc (11):
4 Wrath of god
3 Nahiri, the harbinger
4 Ranger of Eos
1 Emrakul, the Aeons torn
2 Nihil spellbomb
1 Hex parasite
1 Kami of false hope
2 Stony silence
2 Anguished unmaking
2 Crackling doom
1 Crucible of worlds
2 Slaughter games
1 Curse of death's hold
1 Elspeth, sun's champion
Added 3 Blood moons in maind cutting 1 Proclamation of rebirth with idea that in most 1st games we will lock our opponent with moon and easily go to Forecast ability.
Added 2nd Crackling doom and 1 Kami of false hope against infect and Emrakul decks.
Returned Elspeth for midrange decks.
Still not sure for Crucible of worlds but I think it's nesseccary for LD plan and synergy with Nahiri.
The main questions: I wanna cut 2 Stony silence for extra side cards and return Surgical extractions. How this changes will affect on matchup with affinity and other artifact decks?
What do you think?