It was in an interview shortly after they first killed the modern PT. He said that both JTMS and SFM have a grave in modern while things like ponder/preordain were almost certainly never coming off.
I can't find the link currently, but I'll keep looking. However I found a different interview that summed up their feelings on jace in modern quite well imo.
EDIT: I think what you were refering to was Forscythe on the Magic Cruise Ship. He basically said "We made Jace as strong as we could possibly make a card".
EDIT #2: Found the "Jace has a grave" comment:
...So it's safe to assume he doesn't make the final decision.
Honestly, I think it's safe to say that Nahiri is far more of a broken "I win" card than Jace could ever be. Jace promotes the style of grindy, creature-interaction gameplay that they like to see from blue decks. It plays to the board and, depending on the matchup, ranges from unbeatable to unplayable.
just as a random question with nahiri control etc running around...why no bribery??
I remember quite a few people playing 1-2 but then it seemed like the MU was determined one of our better ones without taking up the SB space.
I'm sorry, relatively new to this deck, but MU?
In other news, the way i look at bribery, even at a 3UU sorc speed, is almost like a spoils of the vault for ad nauseam (a deck i'm more familiar with). Use it when you know you can win with it, but never any other time. Currently, I feel like the decks its good against is eldrazitron, tron, nahiri control (especially on the play as it comes down after they tap out for nahiri), and titanshift, as it takes a primeval, gets you 2-4 land, which can be huge to cast revelation.
The other thing I like about bribery is that if you know their deck for the most part, especially top tier decks like nahiri control etc, where there isn't too much variance, you get to discern what is in their hand as well, which can be crucial for what you want to do with esper charm, your counters on the next turn, etc.
one last question. I've been playing 1x narset transcendent, 1x sorin, grim nemesis, and 1x ugin in MB. The only main difference i see in the builds is the counters. I currently run
1x negate
1x remand
2x spell snare
4x cryptic
2x knot
3x snapcaster
Has anyone tested these walkers in this deck? I feel like narset is just good, since half the deck is a target, and worst case is you have a land on top. sorin at worst is a 6 mana gain 6 life, and ugin is....well ugin.
I'm just wondering if my build is more esper control, rather than esper draw-go
MU = matchup. I've personally disliked planeswalkers in this deck because I don't want to tap low for a grindy advantage machine and get blown out by my opponent while I don't have my resources at the ready. Same reason I don't like Lingering Souls.
Narset is good in that she generally draws you a card (a bit more than 50% of time, especially with fetchlands added in), but bad in that you tap 4 mana at sorcery speed to do something the deck is already good at.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't think slapping a bunch of random wincons main really makes the deck better.
Elspeth is forgivable, as is batterskull, in my eyes, because they are both essentially the best at what they do, but both are still questionable mainboard.
Considering that we can't easily protect our walkers, since we don't have real creatures, it can get awkward to draw them fast. Sure, ugin is probably fine protecting himself, but you're paying 8 mana for it. I'd rather win at instant speed for that much mana.
If I were to play tasigurs and lingering souls, I'm sure playing cards like batterskull, or sorin LoI would be great (it is, I've played it) but its just a different deck. Playing win-con parade just seems silly to me, but if it works for you, be my guest.
I'm also working on a barely esper list as well based off of my UW list which also seems promising. The life gain allowing the minor black splash and freeing u pa bit of SB space seems to have completely solved (on paper at least) all of the issues I had with plain UW with ancestral. Also it is super sweet!
The main catch here is that I'm only on 25 lands because I really want to keep Elle in the main since I have no MD hand disruption to protect zenith and colonnades. I can be convinced that it's unnecessary, but with all of the times I've played against the various delver decks, grixis especially, it is very easy to run out of ways to actually win the game if they tag WSZ with something or die before I can protect it. Also the purge in the side can easily be turned into some form of GY hate like a single relic or RIP, but I usually dislike having only 1 effect like that. Personally, I want to have at least 2 or not bother. Perhaps something like -1 purge, -1 halo and +2 rip. The godless shrine is in the side in addition to the MD grave because a number of decks that I bring in the black for have some form of LD like world breaker in tron or many GQs effects in other decks.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
I couldn't agree with that. That's basically dispel 5-8 when they don't even play 4 to start with typically while pierce can hit other things. Now if it was spell or ability then I'd be with you on it, otherwise I don't think it's scary.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
I couldn't agree with that. That's basically dispel 5-8 when they don't even play 4 to start with typically while pierce can hit other things. Now if it was spell or ability then I'd be with you on it, otherwise I don't think it's scary.
Did everyone forget about turn aside...it's from the scars block
I'm also working on a barely esper list as well based off of my UW list which also seems promising. The life gain allowing the minor black splash and freeing u pa bit of SB space seems to have completely solved (on paper at least) all of the issues I had with plain UW with ancestral. Also it is super sweet!
The main catch here is that I'm only on 25 lands because I really want to keep Elle in the main since I have no MD hand disruption to protect zenith and colonnades. I can be convinced that it's unnecessary, but with all of the times I've played against the various delver decks, grixis especially, it is very easy to run out of ways to actually win the game if they tag WSZ with something or die before I can protect it. Also the purge in the side can easily be turned into some form of GY hate like a single relic or RIP, but I usually dislike having only 1 effect like that. Personally, I want to have at least 2 or not bother. Perhaps something like -1 purge, -1 halo and +2 rip. The godless shrine is in the side in addition to the MD grave because a number of decks that I bring in the black for have some form of LD like world breaker in tron or many GQs effects in other decks.
WSZ isnt excatly your only wincon. Remember you have 4 colonnades that are 4/4s. Sure they can kill one or two, but killing all 4 will be hard. You are also looking to take the game to t13-t15, so you dont really need to tap out for elspeth just to get some chump blockers who dont fly. You can also put in a creeping tar pit or two, and bump to 3 snapcaster so you can recur WSZ, or counters if necessary
Has anyone ever used scour from existence in SB? I have it in there for emrakul primarily, when i really have no other way of getting rid of it
EDIT: Nevermind, the exile effect on Scour is really nice. Could be fine, I think. If they manage to annihilate you first, you're in for a bad time, though.
Have you guys tested thing in the ice? It's been working for me. If they kill it before flip. I'm like sweet now my grave titan is free to kill you
Just theory-crafting here, but it seems like it would be best in the SB against creature decks. Give them a chance to side out some removal and then drop a wall/wincon on them when they're not expecting it.
My strengths are game play and tech, not metagame analysis or prediction. Someone smarter than me please help me figure out what's going on.
From my perspective it looks like nahiri in general (chord or jeskai) is about 40 percent of the meta, and that's what I notice across 4 different game stores, only 2 of which are geographically close.
Have you guys tested thing in the ice? It's been working for me. If they kill it before flip. I'm like sweet now my grave titan is free to kill you
Just theory-crafting here, but it seems like it would be best in the SB against creature decks. Give them a chance to side out some removal and then drop a wall/wincon on them when they're not expecting it.
Good point. However I feel like most of the meta right now is creature base decks.
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Yes, thank you for the link. Very informative.
EDIT: I think what you were refering to was Forscythe on the Magic Cruise Ship. He basically said "We made Jace as strong as we could possibly make a card".
EDIT #2: Found the "Jace has a grave" comment:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/567422-i-just-personally-spoke-with-aaron-forsythe-at-pro
Wouldn't buy it for a second.
https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/688242056708243456
...So it's safe to assume he doesn't make the final decision.
Honestly, I think it's safe to say that Nahiri is far more of a broken "I win" card than Jace could ever be. Jace promotes the style of grindy, creature-interaction gameplay that they like to see from blue decks. It plays to the board and, depending on the matchup, ranges from unbeatable to unplayable.
I remember quite a few people playing 1-2 but then it seemed like the MU was determined one of our better ones without taking up the SB space.
Works the same against nahiri but better against company, living end, etc.
Played va Scapeshift and never drew shadow of doubt anyway, I won with thoughtseize and vendilion clique
I'm sorry, relatively new to this deck, but MU?
In other news, the way i look at bribery, even at a 3UU sorc speed, is almost like a spoils of the vault for ad nauseam (a deck i'm more familiar with). Use it when you know you can win with it, but never any other time. Currently, I feel like the decks its good against is eldrazitron, tron, nahiri control (especially on the play as it comes down after they tap out for nahiri), and titanshift, as it takes a primeval, gets you 2-4 land, which can be huge to cast revelation.
The other thing I like about bribery is that if you know their deck for the most part, especially top tier decks like nahiri control etc, where there isn't too much variance, you get to discern what is in their hand as well, which can be crucial for what you want to do with esper charm, your counters on the next turn, etc.
one last question. I've been playing 1x narset transcendent, 1x sorin, grim nemesis, and 1x ugin in MB. The only main difference i see in the builds is the counters. I currently run
1x negate
1x remand
2x spell snare
4x cryptic
2x knot
3x snapcaster
Has anyone tested these walkers in this deck? I feel like narset is just good, since half the deck is a target, and worst case is you have a land on top. sorin at worst is a 6 mana gain 6 life, and ugin is....well ugin.
I'm just wondering if my build is more esper control, rather than esper draw-go
2 Stony Silence
3 Crumble To Dust
3 Leyline Of Sanctity
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Rest In Peace
1 Celestial Purge
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wrath of God
1 Anguished Unmaking
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't think slapping a bunch of random wincons main really makes the deck better.
Elspeth is forgivable, as is batterskull, in my eyes, because they are both essentially the best at what they do, but both are still questionable mainboard.
Considering that we can't easily protect our walkers, since we don't have real creatures, it can get awkward to draw them fast. Sure, ugin is probably fine protecting himself, but you're paying 8 mana for it. I'd rather win at instant speed for that much mana.
If I were to play tasigurs and lingering souls, I'm sure playing cards like batterskull, or sorin LoI would be great (it is, I've played it) but its just a different deck. Playing win-con parade just seems silly to me, but if it works for you, be my guest.
2 Snapcaster Mage
//Instant (24)
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Blessed Alliance
4 Cryptic Command
2 Logic Knot
2 Negate
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
2 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Think Twice
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
//Sorcery (8)
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Supreme Verdict
//Land (25)
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
1 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
2 Prairie Stream
1 Watery Grave
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
2 Dispel
1 Godless Shrine
3 Runed Halo
2 Stony Silence
2 Thoughtseize
2 Vendilion Clique
The main catch here is that I'm only on 25 lands because I really want to keep Elle in the main since I have no MD hand disruption to protect zenith and colonnades. I can be convinced that it's unnecessary, but with all of the times I've played against the various delver decks, grixis especially, it is very easy to run out of ways to actually win the game if they tag WSZ with something or die before I can protect it. Also the purge in the side can easily be turned into some form of GY hate like a single relic or RIP, but I usually dislike having only 1 effect like that. Personally, I want to have at least 2 or not bother. Perhaps something like -1 purge, -1 halo and +2 rip. The godless shrine is in the side in addition to the MD grave because a number of decks that I bring in the black for have some form of LD like world breaker in tron or many GQs effects in other decks.
I couldn't agree with that. That's basically dispel 5-8 when they don't even play 4 to start with typically while pierce can hit other things. Now if it was spell or ability then I'd be with you on it, otherwise I don't think it's scary.
Did everyone forget about turn aside...it's from the scars block
WSZ isnt excatly your only wincon. Remember you have 4 colonnades that are 4/4s. Sure they can kill one or two, but killing all 4 will be hard. You are also looking to take the game to t13-t15, so you dont really need to tap out for elspeth just to get some chump blockers who dont fly. You can also put in a creeping tar pit or two, and bump to 3 snapcaster so you can recur WSZ, or counters if necessary
EDIT: Nevermind, the exile effect on Scour is really nice. Could be fine, I think. If they manage to annihilate you first, you're in for a bad time, though.
Just theory-crafting here, but it seems like it would be best in the SB against creature decks. Give them a chance to side out some removal and then drop a wall/wincon on them when they're not expecting it.
From my perspective it looks like nahiri in general (chord or jeskai) is about 40 percent of the meta, and that's what I notice across 4 different game stores, only 2 of which are geographically close.
Am I right, or am I missing something?
Good point. However I feel like most of the meta right now is creature base decks.