Soo, I got some testing. All games were against a very solid BR midrange brew that a friend has, and it seems to be a fairly reasonable testing dummy.
I began by just straight up switching out ancestral vision/think twice. I rapidly determined that having no other cantrips caused a lot of problems--in the midgame with think twice, we can gas into more cards immediately. the three turns off with ancestral vision was game breaking.
This alleviated the problem a little bit, but it was still really noticeable--spots in the midgame where it turned into having to stabilize, then re-stabilize again off of another shot of cards. Don't get me wrong, it was still extremely powerful--it just felt very, VERY awkward at times. Basically, not the well-oiled machine we're mostly used to. This card is exceptional, but I think we're going to have to play even more cantrips.
My initial thought is to cut a land and the 4th cryptic from the above list to play another pair of cantrips, or maybe even adding back in a pair of think twice. I don't know. It just didn't feel smooth.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Not sure why you'd want it, suspending visions on turn 4 or later is not good enough to devote a etb tapped land to. If it transmuted for less than 3, maybe.
2/2 split is think twice and visions feels pretty good. I'm on match 26 today with my testing group. I'll have 50 matches for you guys by tomorrow.
Edit: I'm calling this now. Think Twice is actually better for our deck because of that period in the middle of the game where we basically have stabilized but only have like 2 land in hand, ripping the think twice there puts us on par to find a cryptic soon, whereas visions is too little too late.
I would actually be totally ok playing 0 visions and just maxing out on remands to exploit all the countless people who are going to try jamming it into any and every deck. Should be low hanging fruit.
The decks that want visions are u/r delver type decks or decks like u/w/r control that don't already have reliable raw card advantage.
I've lost several games today with an Ancestral Visions on suspend, but I haven't lost a single game where I was able to rid my graveyard of however many think twices I had drawn.
I ended up playing against Kiki Chord, Gb Elves Aggro, Gu Combo Elves, Cruel Control over the course of the night. A few thoughts:
1 - I was super impressed with the Wrath of God in the sideboard. Wow, incredible. Having access to that 5th wrath effect in the side is great.
2 - This was the first time playing with Condemn and Logic Knot. I was absolutely floored by how much I appreciated Logic Knot being there and Condemn felt fantastic. Thanks for the feedback for adding in Logic Knot. Even with only 4 fetchlands I felt no problems playing 2.
3 - Anticipate, which was there as a 3 of (and +1 Rev from the 4x Esper Charm lists). Anticipate had its moments where it was certainly better than Esper Charm for specific scenarios (a, it is cheaper and b, provides more selection). There were times where I needed to find land #4 to be able to Wrath and Anticipate was instrumental in making that smooth. Overall, I don't think this is necessarily the effect we want if there are other alternatives.
4 - This deck is slow to finish. One thing I was absolutely missing about the Esper list was the crucial ability to make the opponent discard two cards on their end step. Being able to clean out whatever sandbagged threats they were holding is fantastic. It also helps get rid of the removal that had been piling up in their hand without a target so you can start swinging with Celestial Colonnade against a contained board. I feel like this is why a lot of straight U/W lists are adding additional win-cons like Elspeth, Sun's Champion. I think that being able to use Esper Charm to make your opponent discard cards actively makes you opponent more inclined to play into Cryptic Command which is sort of the exact thing we're hoping for.
5 - The U/W mana base is amazing. It could continue to be amazing for quite some time depending on if it remains appealing as an alternative to Esper if the format becomes a lot of hyper-liner-aggro. I think 2 Hallowed Fountains is great but possibly not ideal. The one reason I like two is that if I have a fetchland and Hallowed Fountain in hand already, I can play the fetchland to either bluff action or be able to fetch a basic (for less pain) and then be able get the other shockland on endstep. I would be interested in trying out Prairie Stream for this reason.
Finally, and this is one I'd appreciate feedback on from others: I'm considering, given how excellent Logic Knot felt, that I would really love to be able to get just a few more early game spells in the deck to try and make it live. I think Opt would be an ideal card for this (likely in the place of the Anticipates in a pure UW list) but we don't really have that effect in Modern. Thoughts on Whispers of the Muse, Quicken, Peek, Festival of the Guildpact, Thought Scour, Serum Visions in this spot? Serum Visions's biggest strike against it is the sorcery speed. Again, I'm not sure the power level of cmc=1 cantrips at instant speed offers much but some of them could have applications. I think it may be sacrificing too much to make Logic Knot more live, however. There is some benefit from the ability to add card velocity, too.
I'm thinking heavily of moving back to black for Esper Charm and some sideboard tech like Night of Souls' Betrayal or Illness in the Ranks if tokens becomes ridiculous (I really miss Esper Charm).
If you want more cantrips, remand and shadow of doubt main, or hallowed moonlight side are miles better than everything else you listed, with the possible exception of peek.
As for cantrips go, I'm very much back on board the "4 mainboard cantrips" that wafo had. 4 tt (or visions, now), 4 esper charms, 4 revs, 4 cryptics and 4 something else.
I know I'm a bit late to the discussion, but Ancestral Vision feels like a trap to me.
In the most ideal scenario, you are casting it on T1. This is fine on the play, but on the draw, it means either casting AV or holding up Spell Snare/Path (assuming you have both).
Next, we have no ways (currently) to get rid of copies we draw late. UWR has loothouse and sometimes Jace VP and Clique. This means that drawing an AV past turn 3-4 means we actually just skipped our draw step.
Third, as some of you have already pointed out, AV doesn't actually help us hit land-drops in the early-mid game.
Finally, against what decks does AV improve our MU?
Of course, I'd love to be proved wrong, and the card certainly warrants testing, but I just don't see it. :/
I know I'm a bit late to the discussion, but Ancestral Vision feels like a trap to me.
In the most ideal scenario, you are casting it on T1. This is fine on the play, but on the draw, it means either casting AV or holding up Spell Snare/Path (assuming you have both).
Next, we have no ways (currently) to get rid of copies we draw late. UWR has loothouse and sometimes Jace VP and Clique. This means that drawing an AV past turn 3-4 means we actually just skipped our draw step.
Third, as some of you have already pointed out, AV doesn't actually help us hit land-drops in the early-mid game.
Finally, against what decks does AV improve our MU?
Of course, I'd love to be proved wrong, and the card certainly warrants testing, but I just don't see it. :/
Confirmed
We could abuse it in some sort of shell that doesn't already have tons of card advantage (uw/r), but I'd hate to be the uw/r player going up against us with us having instant speed mind rots and stuff.
I think what we REALLY gain from this ban / unban is this :
The format slows down for a few reasons. Gb/x gets good again (great for this deck), people are going to try to force thopter sword decks and we can hate those out pretty easily and out grind them. Also, people will jam visions as a 4 of in various decks and try to make random control brews work, and we have esper charms and we can remand their visions and just completely ruin their day. Imagine remanding an opponents AV, they suspend another, and a few turns later you snapcast the remand on their 2nd AV. That's not even magical xmas land, its about to be a relatively common occurence for all of us who just stay the course.
Tron doesn't have their stupid endgame anymore, the format is slower, there are other control decks which we are favored against. No need to stress about it or really tinker with the engine too much.
After much much much testing I really would rather draw think twice at literally anypoint in the game other than turn one.
People love to ask that question, but I think without fully considering it.
We're good against the decks we're good against because of the core of our deck, and how it operates. Esper charm is a defining card for us. It embodies the reasons on why some matchups and good, and some are not. Ancestral visions is the same thing. Should be cut esper charm because we're already good against the matchups its good against? No, because esper charm is the reason we're good against those.
Yea, we have tons of card advantage, but how many of us are really happy playing think twice? Its not a good card, but there isn't anything better. Its just the best we have, until now.
Ancestral visions does not help us hit land drops in the early game, but often times, if I keep an opener with 3 lands (feels about average to me) and draw lands just under half the time, I'm going to have 5 lands on turn 5 with no help. Its after that, when I've exhausted my opening lands that I struggle to hit them. Maybe I'll make it to turn four without missing one. Thats great, because I can cast my verdict, and visions (best case) is almost guarenteed to hit my next one (or two).
I admit I've only got a handful of games in so far, but I'm impressed.
amelak has found it to be clunky so far. Granted, I'd hate for it to be proven that AV is the best option, but it just seems too awkward. I say, prey on the fact that Tron will likely go down, BGx will likely go up, and blue will likely go up. Let's Remand those AVs and Spell Snare Thopter Foundries.
The idea of not drawing the cards for 4 turns just seems so rough. If you aren't playing AV on turn 1, there's not a good time to play it. You certainly aren't playing it on turn 4. You aren't going to sacrifice a Verdict or Cryptic for it. You aren't going to relinquish Esper Charm on turn 3 for it. If you aren't jamming it turn 1, Sphinx's Rev is online by the time it is.
I just don't want to sacrifice consistency, especially when our base build looks to improve with the Eye of Ugin ban.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Magic player since July 2011.
Modern - Esper Draw-Go (Best finish - 12-3, 45th at GP Charlotte 2015), Jeskai Control, UR Breach Moon
I've actually been tinkering around, and I've got an idea I want to test but I don't have time to do it in the next day or two:
What if we DO try going back to Wafo's card draw suite from olden days? 4 charm, 4 visions, 3 mystical teachings was the draw engine behind one of his better format smashers.
12 1 and 2 mana spells, plenty of card draw. It's a lot of early game interaction. It also feels like it would flow a bit better than what I currently have been testing. It also has the advantage of letting us do all sorts of broken stuff from the sideboard--Teferi for the blue mirrors (nice AV's there guys!), fracturing gust against affinity, extirpate against thopter/sword decks, etc. I really like the build linked a few posts earlier, and I think if it were tweaked to reflect the faster/more linear metagame and the presence of remand and dispel that it could be a house.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
This is almost exactly like a list I tried a few weeks ago, but instead of thopter sword it had a more lingering souls and signets to get to gifts faster. It felt ok, but the gifts package seemed a bit light - soemtimes gifts for elesh norn or iona isn't enough, and back up from souls didn't feel like enough. That coupled with the limited "value gifts" package made it seem a bit lacking. Has thopter sword really filled the gap so to speak?
Casting Gifts Ungiven feels sooo good now. You can make them choose whether they die to combo or reanimate and you get a lot more value because of it. Playing the bluffing game is a lot easier. I'm actually considering going up on Thoughtseizes and maybe add a singleton Anguished Unmaking to combat random permanents because of the incidental lifegain.
Souls is there to trigger sword when you bin it and attack if they have a rip or something with no answer. Reanimating definitely isn't enough sometimes and the combo is the real deal. You can attrition out opponents now if Iona/Elesh doesn't end the game by itself.
Has anyone tested spellstutter sprite in their builds? I know it's run pretty solely in faeries, but the more I look at it, the more I love it. Deals with visions, bolts, delver etc, and would work well with Sword. I haven't got any to test with and I wouldn't know what to replace for them, anyone tried it already?
AV is not a trap, please people don't fear change because it's different. Just because we'd have to change our lists a bunch doesn't automatically make them terrible as a lot of you are alluding to. The BIGGEST thing that AV gives us, not a single person has mentioned. We can have a draw spell already "cast" while we use up our mana for interaction. We can cast our removal and counters without having to find a spot to take a turn off to cast a 3 mana draw spell. I've lost a lot of games because I had to choose between drawing cards, mind rotting, or otherwise interacting and the correct choice is nearly impossible to make in those situations because you don't know what you'll draw. With an AV ticking down you don't have to worry about making the wrong play weather it be obvious or really difficult.
Also bear in mind that we don't always curve out with our interaction especially often because sometimes we get a tap land or we can't afford to shock, etc. There are far more spots for you to squeeze in 1 mana for a suspend that any of you are seeming to believe. Before you claim it's a trap just cut 4 random cards, it doesn't matter if they're right or not at all, just work in a set of them into your list and play a good 30 games with it and see how it works out. I promise it won't be nearly as horrible of a trap as advertised. I've palyed with it a ton and when backed by any other draw or selection tools the card is insanely good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
I think the main problem I have with AV is it doesn't help our game plan that much.
You don't get the pay off of an AV until turn 5 (assuming you get it turn 1) which doesn't help us survive the early game which is where most of our losses come from (at least in my limited experience, correct me if I'm wrong here). Turn 2 I'd rather spell snare, remand, path or think twice. Later than that I'd definitely not want to draw an AV, I'd rather have cards to help me interact with my opponents cards, make land drops and get ahead.
Drawing three cards for 1 is amazing, but not getting the benefits of those cards until we are dead or already stabilising is not good enough compared to the consistency that our deck has offered up until now. I also feel that AV just becomes a win-more card late game on top of the rev's which we have already.
Having said all of that, I do look forward to the results of testing with it, and I am open to finding out whether it does makw the deck perform better.
I don't think I've ever been in the position where I have to choose between multiple paths like you suggest, not that I've struggled with deciding anyway. To me it always comes down to what is more likely to enable me to survive, AV wouldn't help me in that position. (Though being able to drop T4 wrath followed by drawing 3 cards T5 with counters up does sound amazing).
Do you guys think it could be possible (or even good?) to fit the sword/thopter combo here? I know that sometimes I struggle to close out a game or stabilize in the midgame, and the combo can help with both of these issues. But I'm not incredibly experienced with the deck, and I might be trying to just shoehorn it in. I don't think it has to take a bunch of slots, the deck has so much digging power, that it can still find the pieces reliably. I was thinking something like 3 Foundry, 2 Sword, and 2 Muddle the Mixture? The Muddles can tutor up Snap, Logic Knot, and Maybe a 2 mana removal spell in addition to the combo?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I began by just straight up switching out ancestral vision/think twice. I rapidly determined that having no other cantrips caused a lot of problems--in the midgame with think twice, we can gas into more cards immediately. the three turns off with ancestral vision was game breaking.
So, I re-tooled and went to this:
4 flooded strand
4 watery grave
3 hallowed fountain
2 watery grave
3 island
2 plains
1 swamp
2 ghost quarter
1 drowned catacomb
3 supreme verdict
1 condemn
1 dimir charm
4 ancestral vision
4 esper charm
2 remand
2 sphinx's revelation
4 spell snare
2 logic knot
2 snapcaster mage
1 white sun's zenith
This alleviated the problem a little bit, but it was still really noticeable--spots in the midgame where it turned into having to stabilize, then re-stabilize again off of another shot of cards. Don't get me wrong, it was still extremely powerful--it just felt very, VERY awkward at times. Basically, not the well-oiled machine we're mostly used to. This card is exceptional, but I think we're going to have to play even more cantrips.
My initial thought is to cut a land and the 4th cryptic from the above list to play another pair of cantrips, or maybe even adding back in a pair of think twice. I don't know. It just didn't feel smooth.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Edit: I'm calling this now. Think Twice is actually better for our deck because of that period in the middle of the game where we basically have stabilized but only have like 2 land in hand, ripping the think twice there puts us on par to find a cryptic soon, whereas visions is too little too late.
I would actually be totally ok playing 0 visions and just maxing out on remands to exploit all the countless people who are going to try jamming it into any and every deck. Should be low hanging fruit.
The decks that want visions are u/r delver type decks or decks like u/w/r control that don't already have reliable raw card advantage.
I've lost several games today with an Ancestral Visions on suspend, but I haven't lost a single game where I was able to rid my graveyard of however many think twices I had drawn.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/18921_Innovations_What_Would_Wafo_Do_Deckbuilding_Teachings_and_Tells.html
I'm not advocating here, just putting it out there as food for thought with the unbannings.
My original list I posted a while back is slightly different from the deck I ended up running (altered based on very helpful feedback here). Originally my mainboard had +1 Negate, +1 Dissolve which were exchanged for 2 Logic Knot. My sideboard was also a bit different. I had +2 Detention Sphere, +1 Condemn, +2 Leyline of Sanctity for -2 Negate, -1 Celestial Purge, -2 Timely Reinforcements
4 Flooded Strand
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Mystic Gate
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Plains
5 Island
4 Ghost Quarter
Removal Suite (10)
4 Path to Exile
2 Condemn
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Spell Snare
1 Negate
2 Logic Knot
4 Cryptic Command
Card Drawing (10)
4 Think Twice
3 Anticipate
3 Sphinx's Revelation
None of the Above (4)
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 White Sun's Zenith
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Disenchant
3 Stony Silence
1 Wrath of God
3 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
2 Timely Reinforcements
I ended up playing against Kiki Chord, Gb Elves Aggro, Gu Combo Elves, Cruel Control over the course of the night. A few thoughts:
1 - I was super impressed with the Wrath of God in the sideboard. Wow, incredible. Having access to that 5th wrath effect in the side is great.
2 - This was the first time playing with Condemn and Logic Knot. I was absolutely floored by how much I appreciated Logic Knot being there and Condemn felt fantastic. Thanks for the feedback for adding in Logic Knot. Even with only 4 fetchlands I felt no problems playing 2.
3 - Anticipate, which was there as a 3 of (and +1 Rev from the 4x Esper Charm lists). Anticipate had its moments where it was certainly better than Esper Charm for specific scenarios (a, it is cheaper and b, provides more selection). There were times where I needed to find land #4 to be able to Wrath and Anticipate was instrumental in making that smooth. Overall, I don't think this is necessarily the effect we want if there are other alternatives.
4 - This deck is slow to finish. One thing I was absolutely missing about the Esper list was the crucial ability to make the opponent discard two cards on their end step. Being able to clean out whatever sandbagged threats they were holding is fantastic. It also helps get rid of the removal that had been piling up in their hand without a target so you can start swinging with Celestial Colonnade against a contained board. I feel like this is why a lot of straight U/W lists are adding additional win-cons like Elspeth, Sun's Champion. I think that being able to use Esper Charm to make your opponent discard cards actively makes you opponent more inclined to play into Cryptic Command which is sort of the exact thing we're hoping for.
5 - The U/W mana base is amazing. It could continue to be amazing for quite some time depending on if it remains appealing as an alternative to Esper if the format becomes a lot of hyper-liner-aggro. I think 2 Hallowed Fountains is great but possibly not ideal. The one reason I like two is that if I have a fetchland and Hallowed Fountain in hand already, I can play the fetchland to either bluff action or be able to fetch a basic (for less pain) and then be able get the other shockland on endstep. I would be interested in trying out Prairie Stream for this reason.
Finally, and this is one I'd appreciate feedback on from others: I'm considering, given how excellent Logic Knot felt, that I would really love to be able to get just a few more early game spells in the deck to try and make it live. I think Opt would be an ideal card for this (likely in the place of the Anticipates in a pure UW list) but we don't really have that effect in Modern. Thoughts on Whispers of the Muse, Quicken, Peek, Festival of the Guildpact, Thought Scour, Serum Visions in this spot? Serum Visions's biggest strike against it is the sorcery speed. Again, I'm not sure the power level of cmc=1 cantrips at instant speed offers much but some of them could have applications. I think it may be sacrificing too much to make Logic Knot more live, however. There is some benefit from the ability to add card velocity, too.
I'm thinking heavily of moving back to black for Esper Charm and some sideboard tech like Night of Souls' Betrayal or Illness in the Ranks if tokens becomes ridiculous (I really miss Esper Charm).
As for cantrips go, I'm very much back on board the "4 mainboard cantrips" that wafo had. 4 tt (or visions, now), 4 esper charms, 4 revs, 4 cryptics and 4 something else.
In the most ideal scenario, you are casting it on T1. This is fine on the play, but on the draw, it means either casting AV or holding up Spell Snare/Path (assuming you have both).
Next, we have no ways (currently) to get rid of copies we draw late. UWR has loothouse and sometimes Jace VP and Clique. This means that drawing an AV past turn 3-4 means we actually just skipped our draw step.
Third, as some of you have already pointed out, AV doesn't actually help us hit land-drops in the early-mid game.
Finally, against what decks does AV improve our MU?
Of course, I'd love to be proved wrong, and the card certainly warrants testing, but I just don't see it. :/
WUBR [url=http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-04-17-ad-nauseam/]Ad Nauseam WUBR
Confirmed
We could abuse it in some sort of shell that doesn't already have tons of card advantage (uw/r), but I'd hate to be the uw/r player going up against us with us having instant speed mind rots and stuff.
I think what we REALLY gain from this ban / unban is this :
The format slows down for a few reasons. Gb/x gets good again (great for this deck), people are going to try to force thopter sword decks and we can hate those out pretty easily and out grind them. Also, people will jam visions as a 4 of in various decks and try to make random control brews work, and we have esper charms and we can remand their visions and just completely ruin their day. Imagine remanding an opponents AV, they suspend another, and a few turns later you snapcast the remand on their 2nd AV. That's not even magical xmas land, its about to be a relatively common occurence for all of us who just stay the course.
Tron doesn't have their stupid endgame anymore, the format is slower, there are other control decks which we are favored against. No need to stress about it or really tinker with the engine too much.
After much much much testing I really would rather draw think twice at literally anypoint in the game other than turn one.
We're good against the decks we're good against because of the core of our deck, and how it operates. Esper charm is a defining card for us. It embodies the reasons on why some matchups and good, and some are not. Ancestral visions is the same thing. Should be cut esper charm because we're already good against the matchups its good against? No, because esper charm is the reason we're good against those.
Yea, we have tons of card advantage, but how many of us are really happy playing think twice? Its not a good card, but there isn't anything better. Its just the best we have, until now.
Ancestral visions does not help us hit land drops in the early game, but often times, if I keep an opener with 3 lands (feels about average to me) and draw lands just under half the time, I'm going to have 5 lands on turn 5 with no help. Its after that, when I've exhausted my opening lands that I struggle to hit them. Maybe I'll make it to turn four without missing one. Thats great, because I can cast my verdict, and visions (best case) is almost guarenteed to hit my next one (or two).
I admit I've only got a handful of games in so far, but I'm impressed.
amelak has found it to be clunky so far. Granted, I'd hate for it to be proven that AV is the best option, but it just seems too awkward. I say, prey on the fact that Tron will likely go down, BGx will likely go up, and blue will likely go up. Let's Remand those AVs and Spell Snare Thopter Foundries.
The idea of not drawing the cards for 4 turns just seems so rough. If you aren't playing AV on turn 1, there's not a good time to play it. You certainly aren't playing it on turn 4. You aren't going to sacrifice a Verdict or Cryptic for it. You aren't going to relinquish Esper Charm on turn 3 for it. If you aren't jamming it turn 1, Sphinx's Rev is online by the time it is.
I just don't want to sacrifice consistency, especially when our base build looks to improve with the Eye of Ugin ban.
Modern - Esper Draw-Go (Best finish - 12-3, 45th at GP Charlotte 2015), Jeskai Control, UR Breach Moon
What if we DO try going back to Wafo's card draw suite from olden days? 4 charm, 4 visions, 3 mystical teachings was the draw engine behind one of his better format smashers.
Here's my thought, something along these lines:
4 esper charm
4 ancestral visions
3 mystical teachings
2 supreme verdict
2 spell snare
4 path
1 sphinx's revelation
2 snapcaster mage
1 white sun's zenith
3 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
3 Remand
1 Consume the Meek
1 dispel
12 1 and 2 mana spells, plenty of card draw. It's a lot of early game interaction. It also feels like it would flow a bit better than what I currently have been testing. It also has the advantage of letting us do all sorts of broken stuff from the sideboard--Teferi for the blue mirrors (nice AV's there guys!), fracturing gust against affinity, extirpate against thopter/sword decks, etc. I really like the build linked a few posts earlier, and I think if it were tweaked to reflect the faster/more linear metagame and the presence of remand and dispel that it could be a house.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
This is almost exactly like a list I tried a few weeks ago, but instead of thopter sword it had a more lingering souls and signets to get to gifts faster. It felt ok, but the gifts package seemed a bit light - soemtimes gifts for elesh norn or iona isn't enough, and back up from souls didn't feel like enough. That coupled with the limited "value gifts" package made it seem a bit lacking. Has thopter sword really filled the gap so to speak?
Souls is there to trigger sword when you bin it and attack if they have a rip or something with no answer. Reanimating definitely isn't enough sometimes and the combo is the real deal. You can attrition out opponents now if Iona/Elesh doesn't end the game by itself.
Also bear in mind that we don't always curve out with our interaction especially often because sometimes we get a tap land or we can't afford to shock, etc. There are far more spots for you to squeeze in 1 mana for a suspend that any of you are seeming to believe. Before you claim it's a trap just cut 4 random cards, it doesn't matter if they're right or not at all, just work in a set of them into your list and play a good 30 games with it and see how it works out. I promise it won't be nearly as horrible of a trap as advertised. I've palyed with it a ton and when backed by any other draw or selection tools the card is insanely good.
You don't get the pay off of an AV until turn 5 (assuming you get it turn 1) which doesn't help us survive the early game which is where most of our losses come from (at least in my limited experience, correct me if I'm wrong here). Turn 2 I'd rather spell snare, remand, path or think twice. Later than that I'd definitely not want to draw an AV, I'd rather have cards to help me interact with my opponents cards, make land drops and get ahead.
Drawing three cards for 1 is amazing, but not getting the benefits of those cards until we are dead or already stabilising is not good enough compared to the consistency that our deck has offered up until now. I also feel that AV just becomes a win-more card late game on top of the rev's which we have already.
Having said all of that, I do look forward to the results of testing with it, and I am open to finding out whether it does makw the deck perform better.
I don't think I've ever been in the position where I have to choose between multiple paths like you suggest, not that I've struggled with deciding anyway. To me it always comes down to what is more likely to enable me to survive, AV wouldn't help me in that position. (Though being able to drop T4 wrath followed by drawing 3 cards T5 with counters up does sound amazing).