I've been testing anguished unmaking a lot and I'm in love with the versatility. The 3 life of course does cause some issues as one might expect. The first cast is really no big deal at all unless you're against burn, but in that case 4 paths are almost all the removal you'll need against them. The second cast is extremely dangerous and the third is simply not possible without a large revelation at which point it doesn't matter. So I've taken to looking for useful life gain cards and haven't found any outside of Ojutai's command.
As it stands, one copy is going to be in my list for certain, but I can't justify the second without life gain and was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on OJ command. The life gain is almost always welcomed, especially with the draw tacked on the end of it, 4 cmc is just brutal though so I'm replacing the 4th cryptic with it but I just don't feel right about giving up a hard counter for it. Granted we'll be countering creatures and burn spells with OJC more often than not, but again this is about versatility. I like the potential synergy with snapcaster, which comes up more than you might guess, but I'm not sure on it. Has anybody else even tried other life gain cards yet?
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T: Add C to your mana pool 5, T, pay 1 life : put a 1/1 white and black Human Cleric creature token onto the battlefield. 5, T sacrifice five creatures : Transform Vale of (???)'s Abbey, then untap it.
Ormendahl, Prince of profanes
Legendary creature - Demon
(black)
Flying, lifelink, indestructible, haste
9/7
Their translation makes no sense. "orient" means east lol
I think this land could see game in a Lingering Souls plus Bitterblossom build.
Sure, it'd be much less Draw-go style but it certainly looks interesting.
T: Add C to your mana pool 5, T, pay 1 life : put a 1/1 white and black Human Cleric creature token onto the battlefield. 5, T sacrifice five creatures : Transform Vale of (???)'s Abbey, then untap it.
Ormendahl, Prince of profanes
Legendary creature - Demon
(black)
Flying, lifelink, indestructible, haste
9/7
Honestly speaking, that Planeswalker would be horrible even if the cc was four instead of six. At six mana, Elspeth just wins the game in a pair of turns.
I think he would be really good at 4 but at 6 he is probably unplayable
Sorry Cipher, I must have meant Cody_X. Do you play the mainboard Leylines, Cody?
So, amalek -- why wait so long on creatures, answering spells instead, when all of those spells will get blanked by your mainboard Leylines? How does that work out? Won't they just kill you in rsp to the Leyline (assuming you don't T0 it)? Plus, then you take a bunch of damage from the creatures, and it's more likely that future unanswered dudes can just attack you ftw.
Does Runed Halo play a big role in the Burn matchup? I was fenced on it, and looking to pick a few up in time, but now I'm quite interested to play it over my flex removal spots for a little while.
I don't play leylines.
Runed halo can answer a number of things, but usually I'll name eidolon/other creatures if I don't have a wipe, or skullcrack/atarka's command otherwise.
Not a fan of ojutai's command. I'll likely be trying out 1 main 1 side of unmaking. For mainboard lifegain, timely reinforcements or a likelinking creature (baneslayer, batterskull, blood baron, etc) are likely your best shot.
I agree, the land is not playable in our current builds.
New sorin also seems interesting, I might try him sideboard, but tbh, I'm not super impressed. He feels better if we can protect him.
I think you all underestimate how could he would be at 4 though. Drawing and blasting your opponent each turn is very powerful.
I've thought about running a timely in the main, but I always cringe about putting a sideboard card into the main. Blet. Screw it, I'll give it a go and see what's what.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
First time posting in this thread, but I've been dabbling in esper modern decks for a while (mostly bemoaning the lack of Counterspell). Looking for some sideboard suggestions, so here we go:
My local shop seems to constantly be changing, but decks that show up regularly include: Jund, affinity, scapeshift, infect, burn, bw tokens, rg tron, merfolk, infect, grixis control, living end, ur delver and lantern control. It's typically very diverse and on the more competitive side of things, but people do use it as an opportunity to brew a bit. I'd say there's a more linear aggressive tendency, but always at least one control deck - sometimes uwr, sometimes grixis, and lantern very frequently.
My sideboard is something along the lines of the following:
Core sideboard cards:
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Leyline of Sanctity
Decent chance these are going to make the board cards:
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Aven Mindcensor
Cards I think I need:
1 Batterskull
1 Disenchant
Last 3 slots (probably some number of Anguished Unmaking after SOI):
1 Detention Sphere
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
I know my shop is super diverse, and I can never really predict what decks will show up on any given day. I'm trying to build a very general sideboard. I will say that no one has bought into eldrazi, so I'm not particularly worried about that.
First time posting in this thread, but I've been dabbling in esper modern decks for a while (mostly bemoaning the lack of Counterspell). Looking for some sideboard suggestions, so here we go:
My local shop seems to constantly be changing, but decks that show up regularly include: Jund, affinity, scapeshift, infect, burn, bw tokens, rg tron, merfolk, infect, grixis control, living end, ur delver and lantern control. It's typically very diverse and on the more competitive side of things, but people do use it as an opportunity to brew a bit. I'd say there's a more linear aggressive tendency, but always at least one control deck - sometimes uwr, sometimes grixis, and lantern very frequently.
My sideboard is something along the lines of the following:
Core sideboard cards:
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Leyline of Sanctity
Decent chance these are going to make the board cards:
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Aven Mindcensor
Cards I think I need:
1 Batterskull
1 Disenchant
Last 3 slots (probably some number of Anguished Unmaking after SOI):
1 Detention Sphere
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
I know my shop is super diverse, and I can never really predict what decks will show up on any given day. I'm trying to build a very general sideboard. I will say that no one has bought into eldrazi, so I'm not particularly worried about that.
Welcome to the club! I'll try to answer your questions as best I can and give a few pointers on your list.
First, this may be personal preference, but I loathe remand in esper. Our deck has to answer 100% of our opponent's threats and remand only delays them. Condescend is a fine choice for some extra early game countermagic, but a negate or disdainful stroke might be better off here if you're a bit scared of playing a deprive. 3 snapcasters are just too many with your configuration, they are essentially a 4 drop and we have plenty of 4+ spells already. If you were running more 1 mana removal like condemn then a third might be acceptable, but as it is they're too slow in an already slow deck. Go up to 3 snares, it's a 1 mana hard counter against several of the decks you mentioned and is at it's best against grixis, jund, and any merfolk draw without a turn 1 vial. And lastly I'd recommend adding in one more spot removal spell like condemn or smother.
Sideboard goodies!
Don't run flash freeze, there just aren't enough targets for it that a negate or disdainful stroke won't already cover. Cliques are sexy in the SB but generally pretty terrible in the main when you're facing a ton of removal already. Getting one tagged with a Kcommand or electrolyze is just miserable. Glen elendra is just too slow in the matches where you want it and the sorcery speed makes it far worse. I'd strongly suggest adding in some more discard effects in the form of cliques or thought seize, but if you don't have seize then duress does a fine impersonation in the matches where you would want it. Depending on how much midrange or control you expect an extra big finisher would do you a lot of good like elspeth, sun's champion or the batterskull you want. I've always liked elspeth and grave titan myself. Up your purge count to 2 until anguished unmaking is out and call it a day for that spot. Lastly you really want another verdict either in the main or the side because the matches where you want them, you REALLY WANT THEM! If you don't draw a wrath against fish or some delver hands you've lost them game on the spot.
My super general purpose SB tends to look something like this.
The CoP red is just a generic targeted FU for burn, but since you main leyline's I wouldn't bother. Lots of hand hate and cheaper counters for the super unfair (tron) decks, a pair of monsters for the grindy matches, timely for aggro/burn, and a pair of non-creature hate with needle and sphere. Right now I run 1 sphere in the main, but when unmaking comes out I'll likely be running two of those in the main and no other effects like it in the side.
I don't run stony silence because between the pile of removal and 4 MD wraths, all I really need to worry about is a plating that sneaks it's way into play and sphere+needle cover it while being useful in way more matches than stony silence is. The only way we lose to affinity is if we get punked out by their "lul i so gut at magics guis!!11 Double plating on inkmoth trolololol." Not like that's ever happened to me, ahem.
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Ugh, stokpile, you make a really good point. I run two Stony silences, and I haven't bought the second yet as I'm still assembling the deck. That brings up the question, is Stony Silence worth it? Should I not get the second and just not run them in the sideboard or mainboard?
Ugh, stokpile, you make a really good point. I run two Stony silences, and I haven't bought the second yet as I'm still assembling the deck. That brings up the question, is Stony Silence worth it? Should I not get the second and just not run them in the sideboard or mainboard?
I believe the correct answer here is: it depends. Stony is still a house against lantern which you mentioned crops up now and then. It's also good (but not a KO) against RG tron which is our worst match up by far. If you expect to face a deck that it's good against regularly, as in a few times a night? Are you willing to just accept a 20/80 match against tron? Also if you're going to continue to be light on wrath effects then I'd say 100% run them because you're a whole lot weaker to affinity than a deck that runs 4 in their 75.
Affinity is NOT a match you should accept a losing percentage against as it's so easy to tweak your list to be 80% and up. When I play locally or at large events I only play affinity twice, and in all the events I've been in only once did I see it a third time and I have yet to lose in a competitive event to it, with or without silence, but that's a function of my maindeck rather than my SB. Stony is a great card, but you always have to cut something for it, it's your call if it's worth it or not.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Ugh, stokpile, you make a really good point. I run two Stony silences, and I haven't bought the second yet as I'm still assembling the deck. That brings up the question, is Stony Silence worth it? Should I not get the second and just not run them in the sideboard or mainboard?
I believe the correct answer here is: it depends. Stony is still a house against lantern which you mentioned crops up now and then. It's also good (but not a KO) against RG tron which is our worst match up by far. If you expect to face a deck that it's good against regularly, as in a few times a night? Are you willing to just accept a 20/80 match against tron? Also if you're going to continue to be light on wrath effects then I'd say 100% run them because you're a whole lot weaker to affinity than a deck that runs 4 in their 75.
Affinity is NOT a match you should accept a losing percentage against as it's so easy to tweak your list to be 80% and up. When I play locally or at large events I only play affinity twice, and in all the events I've been in only once did I see it a third time and I have yet to lose in a competitive event to it, with or without silence, but that's a function of my maindeck rather than my SB. Stony is a great card, but you always have to cut something for it, it's your call if it's worth it or not.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Thanks for the tips stokpile. I'll swap out a snapcaster for a condemn - actually dismember since I've lost to company combo while holding a condemn, fit a third wrath in the 75, and swap flashfreeze for negate. I'm sure you're right about archmage - I just want it to be good. I have thoughtseizes, but don't have baneslayers - which seems to be the best finisher. I do have blood barons, but they seem less bomby, although I guess they're good against uwr, grixis, and jund, junk (except lili).
I'll think about swapping the 2 remands for a spell snare and another condescend. I'm aware that remand is not an answer, but simply a tempo card. Sometimes that's good in control. I also like the option to remand my spells in a counter war, but that's a bit fringe. It would be a lot easier if we had actual counterspell
I actually like stony silence in my meta because affinity, lantern, and tron are all pretty common - although I don't know if it's correct for esper to side stony silence against tron.
Slightly off topic, but has anyone pre-ordered Anguished Unmaking? I've never actually preordered magic cards, what with most of them seeming to be over hyped and over priced (although I feel a bit burned since I considered pre-ordering dig through time, collected company and jace, vrynn's prodigy but decided to "wait on it").
Thanks for the tips stokpile. I'll swap out a snapcaster for a condemn - actually dismember since I've lost to company combo while holding a condemn, fit a third wrath in the 75, and swap flashfreeze for negate. I'm sure you're right about archmage - I just want it to be good. I have thoughtseizes, but don't have baneslayers - which seems to be the best finisher. I do have blood barons, but they seem less bomby, although I guess they're good against uwr, grixis, and jund, junk (except lili).
I'll think about swapping the 2 remands for a spell snare and another condescend. I'm aware that remand is not an answer, but simply a tempo card. Sometimes that's good in control. I also like the option to remand my spells in a counter war, but that's a bit fringe. It would be a lot easier if we had actual counterspell
I actually like stony silence in my meta because affinity, lantern, and tron are all pretty common - although I don't know if it's correct for esper to side stony silence against tron.
Slightly off topic, but has anyone pre-ordered Anguished Unmaking? I've never actually preordered magic cards, what with most of them seeming to be over hyped and over priced (although I feel a bit burned since I considered pre-ordering dig through time, collected company and jace, vrynn's prodigy but decided to "wait on it").
Many people have tried blood baron and it "looks" like it would be awesome, but it's because of 1 card that it's actually terrible: tarmogoyf. The baron just can't crash through on the ground very well at all and doesn't hold the fort against the most common dork in the format. Batterskull sorta gets a pass because it doesn't go away and grixis has taken a nose dive, and rightfully so since it has like 1 good match up and that's it heh.
As for stony, it is 100% right to side it against tron, it slows them down SO much that we can have lots of interaction ready or take away their pay offs when we can defend against a top deck. It's an awesome card, but with certain MD configurations it isn't something you need to be scared to leave at home.
I have no plans to preorder anything, unmaking's 3 life cost will prevent it from going over $5 I bet, just like utter end at it's peak. And it's also got a sweet game day promo that I'm hoping to win =D
Also baneslayer isn't the best finisher, it's just one of the better "giant lifelink monsters" we can play because flying is top notch against affinity and first strike makes her a moat and a moat in the air... what would that be called anyways? The best finisher after WSZ is elspeth 6.
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There are precedents of cards that could do it for less (in a serious way), so one would think when they do it on a 6CMC walker, the other abilities should be really good to compensate the overcost. But, of course, no.
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As it stands, one copy is going to be in my list for certain, but I can't justify the second without life gain and was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on OJ command. The life gain is almost always welcomed, especially with the draw tacked on the end of it, 4 cmc is just brutal though so I'm replacing the 4th cryptic with it but I just don't feel right about giving up a hard counter for it. Granted we'll be countering creatures and burn spells with OJC more often than not, but again this is about versatility. I like the potential synergy with snapcaster, which comes up more than you might guess, but I'm not sure on it. Has anybody else even tried other life gain cards yet?
I think this land could see game in a Lingering Souls plus Bitterblossom build.
Sure, it'd be much less Draw-go style but it certainly looks interesting.
/e: BW definitely getting some love this set.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I think he would be really good at 4 but at 6 he is probably unplayable
I don't play leylines.
Runed halo can answer a number of things, but usually I'll name eidolon/other creatures if I don't have a wipe, or skullcrack/atarka's command otherwise.
Not a fan of ojutai's command. I'll likely be trying out 1 main 1 side of unmaking. For mainboard lifegain, timely reinforcements or a likelinking creature (baneslayer, batterskull, blood baron, etc) are likely your best shot.
I agree, the land is not playable in our current builds.
New sorin also seems interesting, I might try him sideboard, but tbh, I'm not super impressed. He feels better if we can protect him.
I think you all underestimate how could he would be at 4 though. Drawing and blasting your opponent each turn is very powerful.
Narset Transcendent
I rest my case.
Narset draws half a card; I tried to tell people not to buy that card.
First time posting in this thread, but I've been dabbling in esper modern decks for a while (mostly bemoaning the lack of Counterspell). Looking for some sideboard suggestions, so here we go:
Main deck
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
4 Path to Exile
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Spell Snare
2 Logic Knot
2 Condescend
4 Cryptic Command
2 Remand
4 Think Twice
4 Esper Charm
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 White Sun's Zenith
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Leyline of Sanctity
My local shop seems to constantly be changing, but decks that show up regularly include: Jund, affinity, scapeshift, infect, burn, bw tokens, rg tron, merfolk, infect, grixis control, living end, ur delver and lantern control. It's typically very diverse and on the more competitive side of things, but people do use it as an opportunity to brew a bit. I'd say there's a more linear aggressive tendency, but always at least one control deck - sometimes uwr, sometimes grixis, and lantern very frequently.
My sideboard is something along the lines of the following:
Core sideboard cards:
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Leyline of Sanctity
Firm sideboard cards:
1 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
1 Flashfreeze
Decent chance these are going to make the board cards:
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Aven Mindcensor
Cards I think I need:
1 Batterskull
1 Disenchant
Last 3 slots (probably some number of Anguished Unmaking after SOI):
1 Detention Sphere
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
I know my shop is super diverse, and I can never really predict what decks will show up on any given day. I'm trying to build a very general sideboard. I will say that no one has bought into eldrazi, so I'm not particularly worried about that.
Welcome to the club! I'll try to answer your questions as best I can and give a few pointers on your list.
First, this may be personal preference, but I loathe remand in esper. Our deck has to answer 100% of our opponent's threats and remand only delays them. Condescend is a fine choice for some extra early game countermagic, but a negate or disdainful stroke might be better off here if you're a bit scared of playing a deprive. 3 snapcasters are just too many with your configuration, they are essentially a 4 drop and we have plenty of 4+ spells already. If you were running more 1 mana removal like condemn then a third might be acceptable, but as it is they're too slow in an already slow deck. Go up to 3 snares, it's a 1 mana hard counter against several of the decks you mentioned and is at it's best against grixis, jund, and any merfolk draw without a turn 1 vial. And lastly I'd recommend adding in one more spot removal spell like condemn or smother.
Sideboard goodies!
Don't run flash freeze, there just aren't enough targets for it that a negate or disdainful stroke won't already cover. Cliques are sexy in the SB but generally pretty terrible in the main when you're facing a ton of removal already. Getting one tagged with a Kcommand or electrolyze is just miserable. Glen elendra is just too slow in the matches where you want it and the sorcery speed makes it far worse. I'd strongly suggest adding in some more discard effects in the form of cliques or thought seize, but if you don't have seize then duress does a fine impersonation in the matches where you would want it. Depending on how much midrange or control you expect an extra big finisher would do you a lot of good like elspeth, sun's champion or the batterskull you want. I've always liked elspeth and grave titan myself. Up your purge count to 2 until anguished unmaking is out and call it a day for that spot. Lastly you really want another verdict either in the main or the side because the matches where you want them, you REALLY WANT THEM! If you don't draw a wrath against fish or some delver hands you've lost them game on the spot.
My super general purpose SB tends to look something like this.
1 detention sphere
1 pithing needle
1 vendilion clique
3 thoughtseize
3 disdainful stroke
1 dispel
1 circle of protection: red
1 grave titan
1 baneslayer angel
The CoP red is just a generic targeted FU for burn, but since you main leyline's I wouldn't bother. Lots of hand hate and cheaper counters for the super unfair (tron) decks, a pair of monsters for the grindy matches, timely for aggro/burn, and a pair of non-creature hate with needle and sphere. Right now I run 1 sphere in the main, but when unmaking comes out I'll likely be running two of those in the main and no other effects like it in the side.
I don't run stony silence because between the pile of removal and 4 MD wraths, all I really need to worry about is a plating that sneaks it's way into play and sphere+needle cover it while being useful in way more matches than stony silence is. The only way we lose to affinity is if we get punked out by their "lul i so gut at magics guis!!11 Double plating on inkmoth trolololol." Not like that's ever happened to me, ahem.
I believe the correct answer here is: it depends. Stony is still a house against lantern which you mentioned crops up now and then. It's also good (but not a KO) against RG tron which is our worst match up by far. If you expect to face a deck that it's good against regularly, as in a few times a night? Are you willing to just accept a 20/80 match against tron? Also if you're going to continue to be light on wrath effects then I'd say 100% run them because you're a whole lot weaker to affinity than a deck that runs 4 in their 75.
Affinity is NOT a match you should accept a losing percentage against as it's so easy to tweak your list to be 80% and up. When I play locally or at large events I only play affinity twice, and in all the events I've been in only once did I see it a third time and I have yet to lose in a competitive event to it, with or without silence, but that's a function of my maindeck rather than my SB. Stony is a great card, but you always have to cut something for it, it's your call if it's worth it or not.
I believe the correct answer here is: it depends. Stony is still a house against lantern which you mentioned crops up now and then. It's also good (but not a KO) against RG tron which is our worst match up by far. If you expect to face a deck that it's good against regularly, as in a few times a night? Are you willing to just accept a 20/80 match against tron? Also if you're going to continue to be light on wrath effects then I'd say 100% run them because you're a whole lot weaker to affinity than a deck that runs 4 in their 75.
Affinity is NOT a match you should accept a losing percentage against as it's so easy to tweak your list to be 80% and up. When I play locally or at large events I only play affinity twice, and in all the events I've been in only once did I see it a third time and I have yet to lose in a competitive event to it, with or without silence, but that's a function of my maindeck rather than my SB. Stony is a great card, but you always have to cut something for it, it's your call if it's worth it or not.
I'll think about swapping the 2 remands for a spell snare and another condescend. I'm aware that remand is not an answer, but simply a tempo card. Sometimes that's good in control. I also like the option to remand my spells in a counter war, but that's a bit fringe. It would be a lot easier if we had actual counterspell
I actually like stony silence in my meta because affinity, lantern, and tron are all pretty common - although I don't know if it's correct for esper to side stony silence against tron.
Slightly off topic, but has anyone pre-ordered Anguished Unmaking? I've never actually preordered magic cards, what with most of them seeming to be over hyped and over priced (although I feel a bit burned since I considered pre-ordering dig through time, collected company and jace, vrynn's prodigy but decided to "wait on it").
Many people have tried blood baron and it "looks" like it would be awesome, but it's because of 1 card that it's actually terrible: tarmogoyf. The baron just can't crash through on the ground very well at all and doesn't hold the fort against the most common dork in the format. Batterskull sorta gets a pass because it doesn't go away and grixis has taken a nose dive, and rightfully so since it has like 1 good match up and that's it heh.
As for stony, it is 100% right to side it against tron, it slows them down SO much that we can have lots of interaction ready or take away their pay offs when we can defend against a top deck. It's an awesome card, but with certain MD configurations it isn't something you need to be scared to leave at home.
I have no plans to preorder anything, unmaking's 3 life cost will prevent it from going over $5 I bet, just like utter end at it's peak. And it's also got a sweet game day promo that I'm hoping to win =D
Also baneslayer isn't the best finisher, it's just one of the better "giant lifelink monsters" we can play because flying is top notch against affinity and first strike makes her a moat and a moat in the air... what would that be called anyways? The best finisher after WSZ is elspeth 6.
Serious PW that do that:
Jace Beleren, Nahiri, the Harbinger, Chandra, Pyromaster (doesn't grow in loyalty though), Domri Rade, Nissa, Sage Animist (questionable CMC though), Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas.
Not serious PW that do that:
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded, Nissa Revane, Liliana of the Dark Realms, Narset Transcendent
There are precedents of cards that could do it for less (in a serious way), so one would think when they do it on a 6CMC walker, the other abilities should be really good to compensate the overcost. But, of course, no.