I've been waiting on this one since day 1 of Horizons spoilers...
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Currently playing: Modern: Esper/Azorius Control UBW Pauper: UB Reanimator UB UR Control UR Pauper Commander: Stormchaser Mage UR Sedraxis Specter UBR Nightveil Predator UB Artisan of Kozilek C
That only delays them. It doesn't kill them. So how do you kill them?
Teferi Ult, Clique/Queller (or both, depending on the exact 75) beats, Snapcaster and Colonnade beats, sometimes Jace ults. There are a number of ways.
How does everyone feel about the new snow matters stuff? I know I'm biased, since I already loved to play Snow Basics, but now with the 3-mana wipe, I'm thinking it could be possible. I just wish we had snow duals of some sort now.
The 3 Mana wipe isn't really one of the snow matters cards I'm excited for - mostly because, ease of cast aside, it's rarely going to be better than -2/-2 when cast on curve (we already have plenty of that effect, some of which exile) and once we get to 4 Mana there are just many better options.
On Thin Ice is more interesting to me, especially with Prismatic Vista. Maybe not quite as exciting for Esper as for UW, but still seems quite good.
How does everyone feel about the new snow matters stuff? I know I'm biased, since I already loved to play Snow Basics, but now with the 3-mana wipe, I'm thinking it could be possible. I just wish we had snow duals of some sort now.
The only way I see myself playing Esper again - right now - is with an istant speed Flash pseudo-Control. I already ran it two years ago for some time, with decent success (four paper tournaments, two semifinals and cashed one). Instead of focusing on resolving few high-impact spells, I was basically cantripping into another cantrip, resolving Charm, Snapping it back, Cryptic Commanding the opponent's board, Gearhulk into Cryptic ecc...
It was something like that (more or less, it's been a while, and lots of new cards were printed in the meantime):
Academy Ruins is justified by the fact I also had Engineered Explosives as a sweeper in the sideboard (other than for recurring the Gearhulk).
It had game with almost everything, thanks to its aggressiveness - which static lists didn't. Whoever between you guys ran Jeskai Geist at the birth of Modern, it plays like an extreme version of it: remove every threat istant speed, and cast your own winconditions as soon as there's space to land them. Everything cantrips (I mean, twenty spells and six Snapcaster Mage effects!) so that you're never out of breath. And when you finally are empty handed, you start animating Creeping Tar-Pits very aggressively to support Vendilion and Gearhulk beatdown.
I had Lingering Souls and some other sweet sfuff in the sideboard, too, to transform it into more of a Midrange strategy when needed, and lots of Blessed Alliances and Engineered Explosives to deal with Burn and Aggro.
Kaya's Guile is actually interesting: I liked the card at first impact, cause modular spells ARE good for us, but I dismmissed it as a possible one-of and nothing more. Now that I think about it, there's something I didn't consider: it's also a wincondition. I suspect it will be too slow, cause maindeckable Dredge hate is the main appeal to this card, but cc3 seems a little bit too much.
Before the last spoilers I was thinking about something of the sort:
Archmage's Charm is truly an all-star, here. It fits perfectly in the deck's strategy: a) the I-don't-wanna-die one, letting us either stealing creatures or countering opponent's spells, b) the I-draw-istant-speed-while-you-suck-and-I-recurr-it-with-my-Snappies.
Blast Zone is a nice improvement against anything that makes the board overflowing with creatures. It's a land that let us play without any sweeper maindeck, saving precious spots for neaty cards.
The 3 Mana wipe isn't really one of the snow matters cards I'm excited for - mostly because, ease of cast aside, it's rarely going to be better than -2/-2 when cast on curve (we already have plenty of that effect, some of which exile) and once we get to 4 Mana there are just many better options.
On Thin Ice is more interesting to me, especially with Prismatic Vista. Maybe not quite as exciting for Esper as for UW, but still seems quite good.
100%. Didn't see that card spoilered. In UW it could be a blast.
Well, looks like I have to move my timeline up. I'll try to get a primer update in before archival happens.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Well, looks like I have to move my timeline up. I'll try to get a primer update in before archival happens.
It's sad that the forum is closing. This community has been the best for the whole time we were together. Hope we can recreate it somewhere else.
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Near my hometown we're doing a little series of proxy tournaments where to test new cards. I alredy partecipated to the first, yesterday, cause I wanted to test Force of Negation and Hexdrinker in Delver. Tomorrow there'll be another, and I *should* be able to partecipate. In case, this is the list I wanna try:
UWx and UBx with very annoying three mana planeswalkers seems to be everywhere, at the moment, so Dovin's Veto and sideboard Geist of Saint Traft should provide a good insurance against them. I'm also liking Spell Pierce way more than I should in a Path to Exile deck. But they are sided in mostly against strategies where Path goes out, so yeah.
a lot of us have moved onto discord (https://discord.gg/EHBJy3)
the mtgs mods said in the reddit thread that they'd be trying to create some sort of successor, news in a few months.
a lot of us have moved onto discord (https://discord.gg/EHBJy3)
the mtgs mods said in the reddit thread that they'd be trying to create some sort of successor, news in a few months.
It's unfortunate I dislike that platform. I would love another forum, but I guess it's better than nothing.
.................
Good answers from the deck. I went through five rounds (8-Whack, UW Control, Dredge, Jeskai Control, UR Phoenix) and I finished 4-1, only losing the first match. All the matches minus Phoenix were up to three games. I was in top8, paired against Ad Nauseam, which feels favourable between Vendilion Clique and Dovin's Veto (even though I admiteddly didn't test the matchup yet), but I had to leave early, so I wasn't able to put more reps with it.
It feel good to complete the transition into a Esper Flash deck against certain archetypes. Geist of Saint Traft is very powerful, but I tend to play exclusively during my opponent's turn, so I decided it wasn't really functional to the context. Vendilion Clique + Spell Queller really help moving forward without ever losing the main goal. If you're able to prevent cc3 planeswalkers from landing you're in a marvellous spot against any Control and pseudo Control mirror. Passing the turn and sitting on a hand of counterspells, Esper Charm, Archmage's Charm, Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique and Spell Queller is just absurd.
Blast Zone is definitely the card I was expecting this whole time. No more maindeck wraths which are useless vs more than half the format, while representing some sort of Supreme Verdict which can't even be called by Meddling Mage or taken away from Kitesail Freebooter. In testing, I found that Humans is an absolute joke just because of the fact I'm running several copies of Blast Zone. We don't have to run Celestial Purge anymore in the sideboard (which is a completely fine card, but it frees important slots) to fight Liliana of the Veil and other planeswalkers.
What else to say.
I've been on UW Control and Grixis Shadow/Delver a lot in the last two years, cause I felt there was absolutely no reason to play Esper instead, if we were going into a Tap-Out direction (where Esper Charm doesn't shrine). Everything changed with the last two sets spoilered. Archmage's Charm is the perfect complement to the first Charm - acting as a draw spell as well, while providing us a different range of alternate actions, which I translate into "dealing with small creatures and countering Tron stuff". We can finally play eight one mana removal spells, our beloved Path to Exile and Fatal Push, without the need of spending additional slots in the maindeck for sweepers. Snapcaster Mage becomes even better than in Jeskai (!!!) now that, depending on the game state and on the opponent, we can target Opt, cc1 removals, Charms or simply Cryptic Command.
Kaya's Guile didn't have a lot to do, but it is basically Dredge hate number 5-6 while doubling itself as Burn, Boogles and Infect hate number 3-4. It's also better than Blessed Alliance in case we want to bring some copies in vs Jeskai variants (I did). Life + 1/1 that trades with Snapcaster Mage or Vendilion Clique and can act as a pseudo counterspell vs Tiago.
I don't want to brag - this deck's iteration still needs lots of testing - but it has been the best I ever felt between my hands.
As previously said, it plays the same as the Esper Flash I ran some years ago - switching Spreading Seas for Archmage's Charm (which are equally good vs Tron) and with Blast Zone. These are two HUGE upgrades. Force of Negation can also be tested in the board. It's definitely not a maindeckable card, here, due to the deck's lines. But we've got an insane amount of Blue cards to pitch (everything which isn't Path to Exile or Fatal Push). Blood Moon is my only concern - given the fact we're seriously color-hungry - but it's not expecially high at the moment, and against the likes of Blue Moon Dovin's Veto deals with it quite easily. Esper Charm's also a solution to it, if we aren't tapped out (rare) or we don't have all the basics online.
Nice write up, BloodyRabbit! what new cards did you come across while playing with Horizons? Were the Gearhulks great? The perspective of a T3 Teferi while on the draw worries me with this style of deck as you only have 2 Knots and 2 Vetos as outs. Do you feel that the Gearhulks could be swapped for more early interaction?
Edit: What about Fact or Fiction? Did you give it some consideration?
Edit2: What about the manabase? You have slightly more white than black in your main (the 2 Vetos) but you are running 4 extra black sources in the Tar Pits. Do you think a 2-2 split between Tar Pit and Colonnade would be appropiate or do you value the Tar Pit that much more?
Nice write up, BloodyRabbit! what new cards did you come across while playing with Horizons? Were the Gearhulks great? The perspective of a T3 Teferi while on the draw worries me with this style of deck as you only have 2 Knots and 2 Vetos as outs. Do you feel that the Gearhulks could be swapped for more early interaction?
UW player had a pair of Force of Negation (don't know if maindeck or sideboard) and exactly one Archmage's Charm. They were always three mana Negate thanks to the ability of playing only in the opponent's turn. The same opponent also had some On Thin Ice in the sideboard too, but they were obviously irrelevant in the match-up. Force of Despair was unexpectedly present (and effective) in the room, between 8-Rack and BG Midrange sideboard. Cycle lands were overused for sure.
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Teferi, Time Raveler, as I admiteddly pointed out, is a tedious card to deal with. As it is Narset, Parter of Veils. I expected the first to be way more popular, though, and it has been. First thing first... while being annoying, it doesn't do a whole lot. I mean, it doesn't bounce anything (if it does, you're welcome) and it only forces you to deal with it before enstablishing Control of the game. Now, this deck has plenty of outs. Starting with the four cc2 counterspells. If you're on the play, there are also four Archmage's Charm (did I tell you guys about how important are modal spells?). Then, there's EOT Vendilion Clique, strip it from your hand.
But, I'll tell you. They resolved it twice against me. I had hands skewed with removals and couldn't do much to prevent it. Guess what? I won both matches. The beatdown power of this deck is nothing to laugh off: once my opponent cast Teferi, on the play. I Snapcaster Mage in response for free. The opponent decides not to bounce it (correct play), and plusses. On my turn, I Vendilion Clique him while he's tapped out, strip Path to Exile from his hand and leave him with counterspells. I deal with Teferi in no time. Against Jeskai Control it happened again, Teferi on turn three while he's on the play with me without counterspells. Cool bro, guess what my Blast Zone is there for? He didn't have Field of Ruin, and I easily get him. To be fair, they resolved little Teferi a third time (the same Jeskai opponent). But it was later in the game, and we had 9-10 lands on the field. I basically Charmed discard mode, Snap-Charm again in response to Teferi (the Snappy ate one Lightning Bolt), then we were empty handed... but I had two Creeping Tar Pit on the field. I lost that game, unfortunately, cause I topdecked three fetchlands while he had a sequence of Search for Azcanta into Jace the Mindsculptor into Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. Well, ***** happens, and I won g3 anyway.
This is on game one. Game two/three, we've got lots of ways to interact with them (more creatures, additional cheap counterspells).
This reasoning doesn't last, though, if Narset, Parter of Veils is going to be super-popular. I actually fear that card quite a lot running this configuration. The meta yet has to stabilize, so let's see how things are going to become. I may add the fifth cc2 counterspell or Detention Sphere back in the maindeck, if it's the case.
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Having 4 Creeping Tar Pit also means that you have to play more black mana to activate them with ease. They are SO MUCH BETTER than Colonnade right now. They deal with cheap planeswalkers, including Narset. If they cast it and pass without even minuses it, Snapcaster EOT + one hit from Tar Pit is enough to enstablish a safe turn. Remember that activating a manland also means we have to have another Black mana on the field. And we vastly prefer to use Fatal Push before Path to Exile most of the time, anyway.
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Fact or Fiction is a great card if we want to run a Draw-Go less centered on creatures. But I value Torrential Gearhulk way more. They've been my MVP too many times. They are great because, even if the opponent is running graveyard hate, they're still 5/6 flash creatures that interact with opponent's walkers and block critters easily. Not even talking about the pseudo-infinite Cryptic Command loop they provide with Snappies. Expecially against Dredge and the likes of them.
Nice! I realized afterwards that blast zone could blow up planeswalkers, that's nasty... Lil' Teferi might be kind of inocuous, but what worries me the most about him is a follow-up Jace which we can't answer, but I agree that Teferi by himself doesn't do much. Tonight a friend is coming over to play some games so I'll give it a try.
Sad to see that the forum is closing; I sign up for the invitation link to the Discord server too.
Nice! I realized afterwards that blast zone could blow up planeswalkers, that's nasty... Lil' Teferi might be kind of inocuous, but what worries me the most about him is a follow-up Jace which we can't answer, but I agree that Teferi by himself doesn't do much. Tonight a friend is coming over to play some games so I'll give it a try.
Usually, if they spend their mana entirely on planeswalkers in the early turns, it means they can't have any other play. Expecially if we won the dice throw, a very strong play in response is Esper Charm making them discard, then Snapcaster Mage, flashback Charm again and make them discard again. Then, you present a clock (ideally Snapcaster Mage + Tar Pit) that pressure the opponent's planeswalker. Remember that UW (the most popular Control at the moment) plays few istant speed removals, so they can't always interact with your flash creatures and manlands. They have Field of Ruin, but then they have to choose between Blast Zone and Creeping Tar Pit.
I would probably bring the third Vendilion Clique maindeck before the fifth counterspell, thinking about it. I found Clique very useful in every matchup, cause she's never dead: vs Vial decks it's a Mantis Rider killer plus take out from your hand that useless Dovin's Veto, and it's pretty strong EOT against anything else in the format. I don't know what I would cut for it, but it would certainly be a smart move. Again, this deck races very well. You wouldn't tell, looking at the list, but I actually was the aggressor even vs Phoenix (he went for reanimating two Phoenixes turn three, using a Lightning Bolt as his third spell, I went Path-Snap-Path, then on my turn while he was tapped out I Clique'd his hand, taking another Bolt, and I closed the game swing in two turns with them + Creeping Tar Pit. The second game, I resolved EOT a Gearhulk with a Tar Pit on the field, he surgical'd my Charms, look biased at the second Gearhulk sitting in my hand and concede with a sad smile. This is just to point out the closing power the deck have compared to other list's iterations.
If you are trying it out of nowhere, though, beware of the mana. You have to learn how to fetch, because it works differently from what I did running more classic lists. I think the mana is perfect, but if you fail to use it the correct way it's like calling for trouble.
Geist of Saint Traft + Force of Negation is something I was thinkering with when the second was spoilered, and it gives you the edge in the mirror no matter what (other than helping against Dredge/Tron). If the opponent is unable to resolve a planeswalker, they basically can't win. You should be never losing counterwars, and the flash game in g1, Geist + permission postboard are a very strong weapon against them.
I played 6 games maindeck against an electrodominance deck with the new rhinos suspend card andi got pretty wrecked, I think I won 1 game. Definitely the mana base felt lacking, mostly because of archmage charm. Drawing into swamp, plains or godless shrine hurted a lot. Maybe get rid of godless for another U shock?
Not that the match up seems easy mainboard though. 2 mana instant that puts 2 4/4 tokens is pretty spicy and blast zone doesn’t help there. Charm does steal a rhino but some games he went electrodominance into finale and just overwhelmed me. I’ll give it some more tries.
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Just print Vindicate, com'on.
I've been waiting on this one since day 1 of Horizons spoilers...
Modern: Esper/Azorius Control UBW
Pauper: UB Reanimator UB UR Control UR
Pauper Commander: Stormchaser Mage UR Sedraxis Specter UBR Nightveil Predator UB Artisan of Kozilek C
Teferi Ult, Clique/Queller (or both, depending on the exact 75) beats, Snapcaster and Colonnade beats, sometimes Jace ults. There are a number of ways.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
On Thin Ice is more interesting to me, especially with Prismatic Vista. Maybe not quite as exciting for Esper as for UW, but still seems quite good.
The only way I see myself playing Esper again - right now - is with an istant speed Flash pseudo-Control. I already ran it two years ago for some time, with decent success (four paper tournaments, two semifinals and cashed one). Instead of focusing on resolving few high-impact spells, I was basically cantripping into another cantrip, resolving Charm, Snapping it back, Cryptic Commanding the opponent's board, Gearhulk into Cryptic ecc...
It was something like that (more or less, it's been a while, and lots of new cards were printed in the meantime):
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
1x Academy Ruins
4x Islands
1x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Celestial Colonnade
4x Creeping Tar-Pit
2x Watery Grave
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Torrential Gearhulk
Spells (28)
4x Serum Visions
4x Spreading Seas
4x Esper Charm
4x Remand
4x Cryptic Command
4x Path to Exile
4x Fatal Push
Academy Ruins is justified by the fact I also had Engineered Explosives as a sweeper in the sideboard (other than for recurring the Gearhulk).
It had game with almost everything, thanks to its aggressiveness - which static lists didn't. Whoever between you guys ran Jeskai Geist at the birth of Modern, it plays like an extreme version of it: remove every threat istant speed, and cast your own winconditions as soon as there's space to land them. Everything cantrips (I mean, twenty spells and six Snapcaster Mage effects!) so that you're never out of breath. And when you finally are empty handed, you start animating Creeping Tar-Pits very aggressively to support Vendilion and Gearhulk beatdown.
I had Lingering Souls and some other sweet sfuff in the sideboard, too, to transform it into more of a Midrange strategy when needed, and lots of Blessed Alliances and Engineered Explosives to deal with Burn and Aggro.
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I suspect it could be playable again, given the printing of Opt, Field of Ruin, Archmage's Charm, Blast Zone, Kaya's Guile and the likes of them.
Kaya's Guile is actually interesting: I liked the card at first impact, cause modular spells ARE good for us, but I dismmissed it as a possible one-of and nothing more. Now that I think about it, there's something I didn't consider: it's also a wincondition. I suspect it will be too slow, cause maindeckable Dredge hate is the main appeal to this card, but cc3 seems a little bit too much.
Before the last spoilers I was thinking about something of the sort:
2x Blast Zone
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Islands
1x Plains
1x Swamp
4x Creeping Tar-Pit
2x Watery Grave
2x Hallowed Fountain
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Vendilion Clique
Spells (28)
4x Opt
4x Archmage's Charm
4x Esper Charm
4x Remand
4x Cryptic Command
4x Path to Exile
4x Fatal Push
3x Blessed Alliance
2x Dispel
2x Negate
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Unmoored Ego
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Settle the Wreckage
Archmage's Charm is truly an all-star, here. It fits perfectly in the deck's strategy: a) the I-don't-wanna-die one, letting us either stealing creatures or countering opponent's spells, b) the I-draw-istant-speed-while-you-suck-and-I-recurr-it-with-my-Snappies.
Blast Zone is a nice improvement against anything that makes the board overflowing with creatures. It's a land that let us play without any sweeper maindeck, saving precious spots for neaty cards.
So far, I'm loving it.
100%. Didn't see that card spoilered. In UW it could be a blast.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
It's sad that the forum is closing. This community has been the best for the whole time we were together. Hope we can recreate it somewhere else.
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Near my hometown we're doing a little series of proxy tournaments where to test new cards. I alredy partecipated to the first, yesterday, cause I wanted to test Force of Negation and Hexdrinker in Delver. Tomorrow there'll be another, and I *should* be able to partecipate. In case, this is the list I wanna try:
3x Blast Zone
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
5x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
4x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Watery Grave
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Vendilion Clique
Spells (28)
4x Opt
4x Archmage's Charm
4x Esper Charm
2x Dovin's Veto
2x Logic Knot
4x Cryptic Command
4x Path to Exile
4x Fatal Push
2x Kaya's Guile
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Spell Pierce
2x Dovin's Veto
1x Vendilion Clique
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Geist of Saint Traft
UWx and UBx with very annoying three mana planeswalkers seems to be everywhere, at the moment, so Dovin's Veto and sideboard Geist of Saint Traft should provide a good insurance against them. I'm also liking Spell Pierce way more than I should in a Path to Exile deck. But they are sided in mostly against strategies where Path goes out, so yeah.
Hope to come back with a good report.
Which forum is closing? Where did you get this information from?
the mtgs mods said in the reddit thread that they'd be trying to create some sort of successor, news in a few months.
It's unfortunate I dislike that platform. I would love another forum, but I guess it's better than nothing.
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Good answers from the deck. I went through five rounds (8-Whack, UW Control, Dredge, Jeskai Control, UR Phoenix) and I finished 4-1, only losing the first match. All the matches minus Phoenix were up to three games. I was in top8, paired against Ad Nauseam, which feels favourable between Vendilion Clique and Dovin's Veto (even though I admiteddly didn't test the matchup yet), but I had to leave early, so I wasn't able to put more reps with it.
That's the list I went with, in the end:
3x Blast Zone
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
5x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
4x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Watery Grave
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Vendilion Clique
Spells (28)
4x Opt
4x Archmage's Charm
4x Esper Charm
2x Dovin's Veto
2x Logic Knot
4x Cryptic Command
4x Path to Exile
4x Fatal Push
2x Kaya's Guile
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Spell Pierce
2x Dovin's Veto
1x Vendilion Clique
4x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Spell Queller
It feel good to complete the transition into a Esper Flash deck against certain archetypes. Geist of Saint Traft is very powerful, but I tend to play exclusively during my opponent's turn, so I decided it wasn't really functional to the context. Vendilion Clique + Spell Queller really help moving forward without ever losing the main goal. If you're able to prevent cc3 planeswalkers from landing you're in a marvellous spot against any Control and pseudo Control mirror. Passing the turn and sitting on a hand of counterspells, Esper Charm, Archmage's Charm, Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique and Spell Queller is just absurd.
Blast Zone is definitely the card I was expecting this whole time. No more maindeck wraths which are useless vs more than half the format, while representing some sort of Supreme Verdict which can't even be called by Meddling Mage or taken away from Kitesail Freebooter. In testing, I found that Humans is an absolute joke just because of the fact I'm running several copies of Blast Zone. We don't have to run Celestial Purge anymore in the sideboard (which is a completely fine card, but it frees important slots) to fight Liliana of the Veil and other planeswalkers.
What else to say.
I've been on UW Control and Grixis Shadow/Delver a lot in the last two years, cause I felt there was absolutely no reason to play Esper instead, if we were going into a Tap-Out direction (where Esper Charm doesn't shrine). Everything changed with the last two sets spoilered. Archmage's Charm is the perfect complement to the first Charm - acting as a draw spell as well, while providing us a different range of alternate actions, which I translate into "dealing with small creatures and countering Tron stuff". We can finally play eight one mana removal spells, our beloved Path to Exile and Fatal Push, without the need of spending additional slots in the maindeck for sweepers. Snapcaster Mage becomes even better than in Jeskai (!!!) now that, depending on the game state and on the opponent, we can target Opt, cc1 removals, Charms or simply Cryptic Command.
Kaya's Guile didn't have a lot to do, but it is basically Dredge hate number 5-6 while doubling itself as Burn, Boogles and Infect hate number 3-4. It's also better than Blessed Alliance in case we want to bring some copies in vs Jeskai variants (I did). Life + 1/1 that trades with Snapcaster Mage or Vendilion Clique and can act as a pseudo counterspell vs Tiago.
I don't want to brag - this deck's iteration still needs lots of testing - but it has been the best I ever felt between my hands.
As previously said, it plays the same as the Esper Flash I ran some years ago - switching Spreading Seas for Archmage's Charm (which are equally good vs Tron) and with Blast Zone. These are two HUGE upgrades. Force of Negation can also be tested in the board. It's definitely not a maindeckable card, here, due to the deck's lines. But we've got an insane amount of Blue cards to pitch (everything which isn't Path to Exile or Fatal Push). Blood Moon is my only concern - given the fact we're seriously color-hungry - but it's not expecially high at the moment, and against the likes of Blue Moon Dovin's Veto deals with it quite easily. Esper Charm's also a solution to it, if we aren't tapped out (rare) or we don't have all the basics online.
An Invite would be nice, tyvm.
Matt
Edit: What about Fact or Fiction? Did you give it some consideration?
Edit2: What about the manabase? You have slightly more white than black in your main (the 2 Vetos) but you are running 4 extra black sources in the Tar Pits. Do you think a 2-2 split between Tar Pit and Colonnade would be appropiate or do you value the Tar Pit that much more?
UW player had a pair of Force of Negation (don't know if maindeck or sideboard) and exactly one Archmage's Charm. They were always three mana Negate thanks to the ability of playing only in the opponent's turn. The same opponent also had some On Thin Ice in the sideboard too, but they were obviously irrelevant in the match-up. Force of Despair was unexpectedly present (and effective) in the room, between 8-Rack and BG Midrange sideboard. Cycle lands were overused for sure.
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Teferi, Time Raveler, as I admiteddly pointed out, is a tedious card to deal with. As it is Narset, Parter of Veils. I expected the first to be way more popular, though, and it has been. First thing first... while being annoying, it doesn't do a whole lot. I mean, it doesn't bounce anything (if it does, you're welcome) and it only forces you to deal with it before enstablishing Control of the game. Now, this deck has plenty of outs. Starting with the four cc2 counterspells. If you're on the play, there are also four Archmage's Charm (did I tell you guys about how important are modal spells?). Then, there's EOT Vendilion Clique, strip it from your hand.
But, I'll tell you. They resolved it twice against me. I had hands skewed with removals and couldn't do much to prevent it. Guess what? I won both matches. The beatdown power of this deck is nothing to laugh off: once my opponent cast Teferi, on the play. I Snapcaster Mage in response for free. The opponent decides not to bounce it (correct play), and plusses. On my turn, I Vendilion Clique him while he's tapped out, strip Path to Exile from his hand and leave him with counterspells. I deal with Teferi in no time. Against Jeskai Control it happened again, Teferi on turn three while he's on the play with me without counterspells. Cool bro, guess what my Blast Zone is there for? He didn't have Field of Ruin, and I easily get him. To be fair, they resolved little Teferi a third time (the same Jeskai opponent). But it was later in the game, and we had 9-10 lands on the field. I basically Charmed discard mode, Snap-Charm again in response to Teferi (the Snappy ate one Lightning Bolt), then we were empty handed... but I had two Creeping Tar Pit on the field. I lost that game, unfortunately, cause I topdecked three fetchlands while he had a sequence of Search for Azcanta into Jace the Mindsculptor into Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. Well, ***** happens, and I won g3 anyway.
This is on game one. Game two/three, we've got lots of ways to interact with them (more creatures, additional cheap counterspells).
This reasoning doesn't last, though, if Narset, Parter of Veils is going to be super-popular. I actually fear that card quite a lot running this configuration. The meta yet has to stabilize, so let's see how things are going to become. I may add the fifth cc2 counterspell or Detention Sphere back in the maindeck, if it's the case.
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Having 4 Creeping Tar Pit also means that you have to play more black mana to activate them with ease. They are SO MUCH BETTER than Colonnade right now. They deal with cheap planeswalkers, including Narset. If they cast it and pass without even minuses it, Snapcaster EOT + one hit from Tar Pit is enough to enstablish a safe turn. Remember that activating a manland also means we have to have another Black mana on the field. And we vastly prefer to use Fatal Push before Path to Exile most of the time, anyway.
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Fact or Fiction is a great card if we want to run a Draw-Go less centered on creatures. But I value Torrential Gearhulk way more. They've been my MVP too many times. They are great because, even if the opponent is running graveyard hate, they're still 5/6 flash creatures that interact with opponent's walkers and block critters easily. Not even talking about the pseudo-infinite Cryptic Command loop they provide with Snappies. Expecially against Dredge and the likes of them.
Sad to see that the forum is closing; I sign up for the invitation link to the Discord server too.
Usually, if they spend their mana entirely on planeswalkers in the early turns, it means they can't have any other play. Expecially if we won the dice throw, a very strong play in response is Esper Charm making them discard, then Snapcaster Mage, flashback Charm again and make them discard again. Then, you present a clock (ideally Snapcaster Mage + Tar Pit) that pressure the opponent's planeswalker. Remember that UW (the most popular Control at the moment) plays few istant speed removals, so they can't always interact with your flash creatures and manlands. They have Field of Ruin, but then they have to choose between Blast Zone and Creeping Tar Pit.
I would probably bring the third Vendilion Clique maindeck before the fifth counterspell, thinking about it. I found Clique very useful in every matchup, cause she's never dead: vs Vial decks it's a Mantis Rider killer plus take out from your hand that useless Dovin's Veto, and it's pretty strong EOT against anything else in the format. I don't know what I would cut for it, but it would certainly be a smart move. Again, this deck races very well. You wouldn't tell, looking at the list, but I actually was the aggressor even vs Phoenix (he went for reanimating two Phoenixes turn three, using a Lightning Bolt as his third spell, I went Path-Snap-Path, then on my turn while he was tapped out I Clique'd his hand, taking another Bolt, and I closed the game swing in two turns with them + Creeping Tar Pit. The second game, I resolved EOT a Gearhulk with a Tar Pit on the field, he surgical'd my Charms, look biased at the second Gearhulk sitting in my hand and concede with a sad smile. This is just to point out the closing power the deck have compared to other list's iterations.
If you are trying it out of nowhere, though, beware of the mana. You have to learn how to fetch, because it works differently from what I did running more classic lists. I think the mana is perfect, but if you fail to use it the correct way it's like calling for trouble.
3x Blast Zone
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Celestial Colonnade
1x Watery Grave
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Vendilion Clique
Spells (29)
4x Opt
4x Archmage's Charm
4x Esper Charm
3x Dovin's Veto
2x Logic Knot
4x Cryptic Command
4x Path to Exile
4x Fatal Push
2x Kaya's Guile
2x Blessed Alliance
3x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Force of Negation
2x Settle the Wreckage
Geist of Saint Traft + Force of Negation is something I was thinkering with when the second was spoilered, and it gives you the edge in the mirror no matter what (other than helping against Dredge/Tron). If the opponent is unable to resolve a planeswalker, they basically can't win. You should be never losing counterwars, and the flash game in g1, Geist + permission postboard are a very strong weapon against them.
Let me know if you tried it!
Not that the match up seems easy mainboard though. 2 mana instant that puts 2 4/4 tokens is pretty spicy and blast zone doesn’t help there. Charm does steal a rhino but some games he went electrodominance into finale and just overwhelmed me. I’ll give it some more tries.