MTG Salvation

You probably don't need 14 turn 1 black sources in a deck where your only black 1 drop is a removal spell. It's not like thought seize/Inquisition where you're always wanting to cast it on turn 1. 12 untapped for turn 1 and 13 for turn 2 seems reasonable to me.

This is my firs try at the deck :3 its not the best but we're working on it!

So I went 3-1 this week end due to some really poor draws in my final match but the list feels good so far with a few changes I'm making it should be even better. With a lot of my meta not lining up very well against Bolts and Helixs I decided to swap to esper to see how things would go, and I wasn't disappointed.

Match 1: G/B Elves

Game 1: I saw one Terminus off of Azcanta on turn 3, Settle on turn four and after landing a Teferi on five I drew a Settle to completely clear him out again on turn six. Several turns later I won with Gideon and Colonnade.

Game 2: He ended up getting a CoCo through and burned me out with 4 Shaman of the Pact over a few turns.

Game 3: Much like game 1, I saw a lot of board wipes and had Teferi and Azcanta in play. After discarding his last cards with Esper Charm he ended up scooping a few turns away from Colonnade for the win.

Match 2: U/B Mill

Game 1: After a bit of a back and forth game with some counters and milling going on I got a Secure for 6 and ended the game with that pretty quickly

Game 2: Much like game 1 there was a bit of back and forth between counters and milling, I landed two Snaps and Colonnade and barely scraped through with four cards left in deck.

Match 3: U/B Eldrazi Emerge

Game 1: He went through 3 Serum Powder and ended up losing 4 Chalice 2 Thought-Knot and 3 Reality Smasher. With most of his strong early plays gone I was able to counter and remove his board before getting a Secure for 7 and ending the game.

Game 2: He started with a chalice on one but no threats for a few turns. Mana leak stopped a Reality Smasher, I got a Secure for 3 and had a few beats, then Terminus cleared up a few turns latter when he had a few random Eldrazi come down. After bouncing Chalice with Cryptic and drawing a few cards from Esper Charm, I cleared his board up again a few turns later with Push and Path. The next turn in his draw step I took his cards with Esper Charm and he replayed his Chalice to my hand of 1 drops. Keeping him off cards for a few turns with Snap Esper Charm eventually I took the game

Match 4: Devoted Druid Combo

Game 1: Started with 3 lands, 2 Push, Path and Cryptic, drew several of my top end cards and never saw another land. Lost to the combo after many turns.

Game 2: Mulled to 4 before I saw any lands and tried to keep but again didn't see any extra lands for the game which ended pretty quick after I blew an Engineered Explosives on two.

Final Thoughts: Overall, things felt fine. I'll be adding a few more fetches to fix the mana base up and a surgical either to the main or side. Thats it for now.

Don't ever post on here so unsure how to format a decklist, I've been working esper miracles for a few months now and have been doing extremely well with it, pairing terminus with esper charm then dropping a walker is huge. In my opinion is where esper should be.

Here's my list for reference

2 teferi hero of dominaria
2 jace the mind sculptor
1 kaya orzhov usurper

1 search for azcanta
2 nihil spellbomb

3 snapcaster mage

4 terminus
1 settle the wreckage
3 cryptic command
1 absorb
3 esper charm
3 logic knot
4 opt
4 path to exile
2 fatal push

1 swamp
1 plains
3 Island
1 godless shrine
2 watery grave
2 hallowed fountain
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
1 drowned catacomb
3 celestial colonnade
2 field of ruin

1 lyra dawnbringer
1 engineered explosives
1 extirpate
1 anguished unmaking
1 timely reinforcements
2 thoughtseize
2 dispel
2 negate
2 celestial purge
2 unmoored ego

Quote from Bazz66 »

Don't ever post on here so unsure how to format a decklist, I've been working esper miracles for a few months now and have been doing extremely well with it, pairing terminus with esper charm then dropping a walker is huge. In my opinion is where esper should be.

Here's my list for reference

Bazz66's deckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
2 teferi, hero of dominaria 2 jace, the mind sculptor 1 kaya, orzhov usurper 1 search for azcanta 2 nihil spellbomb 3 snapcaster mage 4 terminus 1 settle the wreckage 3 cryptic command 1 absorb 3 esper charm 3 logic knot 4 opt 4 path to exile 2 fatal push	1 swamp 1 plains 3 Island 1 godless shrine 2 watery grave 2 hallowed fountain 4 polluted delta 4 flooded strand 1 drowned catacomb 3 celestial colonnade 2 field of ruin 1 lyra dawnbringer 1 engineered explosives 1 extirpate 1 anguished unmaking 1 timely reinforcements 2 thoughtseize 2 dispel 2 negate 2 celestial purge 2 unmoored ego

will make the list into a deck.

Kaya seems pretty bad to me, honestly. You probably just want the third Jace. I also notice you're mainboarding Nihil Spellbombs. How have they been so far?

I've had Unmoored Ego played against me and it seems pretty solid, so I'm sortof interested in picking up a few copies to play for myself. How has it performed for you?

Thanks for that, and kaya initially does look bad but is surprisingly very good, being able to exile problem permanents like amulet, chalice, guide, Shadow, vial is really good. Being able to hit the opponents grave of key cards is huge, even in the burn match up where it looks like nothing hits the grave. With counters, charm to discard, push and snap blocks it becomes massive. Also combos with spellbomb to just burn your opponent out from no where.

Spellbomb with terminus has been incredible, main deck one sided grave hate that replaces itself and triggers terminus is huge! Especially with kaya about to ultimate.

As for ego, it is a game breaker in some troubled match ups and is certainly the draw to esper to make it my choice over jeskai or uw

Living end
Ad nauseam
Valakut
Tron lands/threats

Dredge key cards, early naming of ghast makes this match up great

So now that all my new cards are in, this is the current list I've updated too :3

Is Dovin's Veto going to replace Negate in Esper? I've found that WU is basically just as common to have as 1U, and I think the infrequent mana issues might be worth the ability to decisively counter something.

I can not see a way in which it won't replace negate, the white blue is what the uwx mana bases are made to produce effectively. The upside of being able to counter lightning storm through pact of negation, blood moon through counters and walkers in the mirror is far more important then a white mana requirement.
I think the real issue now is how to we diversify our threat suite to play around it as control mage will be running at least 2, maybe 3 now because of how good it will be.

Quote from Bazz66 »

I can not see a way in which it won't replace negate, the white blue is what the uwx mana bases are made to produce effectively. The upside of being able to counter lightning storm through pact of negation, blood moon through counters and walkers in the mirror is far more important then a white mana requirement.
I think the real issue now is how to we diversify our threat suite to play around it as control mage will be running at least 2, maybe 3 now because of how good it will be.

This. It is not a question, Dovin's Veto will replace Negate.

I'm curious why an uncounterable Negate has contol players in a flutter. We're not drowning in control mirrors. Negate is just fine if want a Negate-effect. That said, if Negate wasn't so good before that we were playing four of them in our 75, what does making it uncounterable do for a control player who is unlikely to be dealing a mirror these days?

Also @Baz66, I would counter Ad Nauseam. Not Lightning Storm.

Veto is a control policing card that goes in control in a meta where control doesn't hold much meta share; chances are this will create more one sided control mirrors (UWx vs non-UWx). The card is virtually indistinguishable against decks with no counters, but as soon as you sit across from a Grixis control player, you will find that you have an incredibly easy time with Veto in your hand.

If they're sculpting a better hand than you? Doesn't matter, Veto their walker/Ultimatum/non-creature bomb.

You might immediately point at Counterflux or Last Word, but I would point out that 3 and 4cmc counters are pretty terrible unless they come with great upsides. Veto is just a straight upgrade to an already playable card. No one is clamoring over Cancel only to find they're outclassed by Counterflux, much less Last Word. There is just more reason to run Veto because Negate is already a thing and Cancel is not.

For some control players (myself included), a combination of Veto and Teferi beg the question "Will WotC ever support non-UWx control?" and "What do my colors bring to the table that can compete with UWx?". In the long run if a deck like Grixis control begins to find time in the sun Veto will move in and take over.

uncounterable is still decent vs decks like amulet, grixis shadow, ad naus, phoenix, etc.
But either way, we still play it. Its almost always going to be better than negate given its not significantly harder to cast, and does have potential upside. Getting new cards is exciting, even if the cards themselves aren't.

People are clamoring over Veto because they don't realize the actual cost of the second color requirement; Take a look a pro's UB lists from the last decade and you will see that even in aggressive UB strategies like Faeries (Yuta Takahashi is prime example) and count the number of negate vs countersquall - among pros it's zero squall.

Of course uncounterable is worth more than 2 life in most scenarios, but it's not a strict upgrade over negate in decks with quadruple color requirements and multiple colorless sources. You're going to want negate more often against aggressive strategies so that you can double spell earlier and against controlling or combo decks you're going to want Veto. This makes me think that the first obvious spot for Veto is replacing some number (maybe all) of negate in the sideboard.

Quote from Arkmer »

Veto is a control policing card that goes in control in a meta where control doesn't hold much meta share; chances are this will create more one sided control mirrors (UWx vs non-UWx). The card is virtually indistinguishable against decks with no counters, but as soon as you sit across from a Grixis control player, you will find that you have an incredibly easy time with Veto in your hand.

If they're sculpting a better hand than you? Doesn't matter, Veto their walker/Ultimatum/non-creature bomb.

You might immediately point at Counterflux or Last Word, but I would point out that 3 and 4cmc counters are pretty terrible unless they come with great upsides. Veto is just a straight upgrade to an already playable card. No one is clamoring over Cancel only to find they're outclassed by Counterflux, much less Last Word. There is just more reason to run Veto because Negate is already a thing and Cancel is not.

For some control players (myself included), a combination of Veto and Teferi beg the question "Will WotC ever support non-UWx control?" and "What do my colors bring to the table that can compete with UWx?". In the long run if a deck like Grixis control begins to find time in the sun Veto will move in and take over.

I find this position somewhat silly because, by virtue of what you just said, it's better against control (and combo) than for it. I would find it more likely that some UWx aggro, tempo or midrange deck would make better use of Dovin's Veto than the control decks everyone wants to slam it in.

As far as supporting non-UWx control decks, I'm not sure why it even matters. Control as an archetype is fairly weak across the board. UW and Jeskai can sometimes make in-roads in the hands of really good players, but even they aren't having the time of their life right now.

Quote from chaos021 »

I find this position somewhat silly because, by virtue of what you just said, it's better against control (and combo) than for it. I would find it more likely that some UWx aggro, tempo or midrange deck would make better use of Dovin's Veto than the control decks everyone wants to slam it in.

Oh, 100%. I could totally see some UW aggro picking up Veto against control or combo (both of which are in poor positions, at the moment). I do, however, think the first place to look are the places that Negate is already in use, and that is by and large in control.

Quote from chaos021 »

As far as supporting non-UWx control decks, I'm not sure why it even matters. Control as an archetype is fairly weak across the board. UW and Jeskai can sometimes make in-roads in the hands of really good players, but even they aren't having the time of their life right now.

All the more reason why control doesn't need tools that beat up on control. There's already plenty of other targets to worry about.

People are clamoring over Veto because local metas and GP metas are very different. I don't know about you guys, but at my LGS, UW is one of the most represented decks, with at least one in every Modern event, oftentimes more. There are still sprinklings of Jeskai and, occasionally, Grixis making an appearance as well. Veto will definitely have an impact. Maybe it would be best served as a sideboard card, I'm not sure.

An esper list got 2nd at the last SCG event

www.starcitygames.com/decks/Star_City_Games_Open/2019-04-06_modern_Cleveland_OH_US/1/



The interesting choices about the deck are:

4 main deck grave hate cards with 3 spellbombs and 1 kaya.
2 sweepers main (most people play 4?)
4 snapcasters (most people 3, so i guess playing 4 isn't that big of a stretch)
24 lands (seems like the range is 24-26)
1 man land (seems like the most people play 3)

Nassif played 74/75 of this list on stream the other day. He said 24 lands seemed low, and he switched an opt for a spellbomb, as he thought you should have 4 opts if you have 4 snapcasters. I believe he said if he wanted to add a land you'd probably cut push.

Seems reasonable, but I don't know if this has better match ups compared to UW.

Never seen such a good week-end for Esper control : Zach Allen runner-up in the Open and Sean Mogelgaard ending making quarter-finals in the Classic ! Aside Kaya, Orzhov Usurper, the lists look well-tuned to beat graveyard based decks. I'm running a very similar list and it feels great.

I haven't seen Nassif stream, is there a link ?

Cheers !

Going low on wraths makes sense -- nobody is going wide anymore except Dredge and Spirits (which trumps Verdict with Spell Quellers and Selfless Spirits). I'm pretty sure those Verdicts should just be Settle the Wreckages tbh. Interesting list tho. Not big on the Kaya.

Other things of note -- mainboard cast down, sideboard Unmoored Ego. I picked up some Egos recently because they seem like a good card to play. Also Kalitas and Brutality are interesting choices in the board. Wonder what matchups they're for -- is Burn really that prevalent? Kalitas seems too slow vs. dredge.