Given that neither deck has more than a tiny handful of results, its kind of hard to point to gifts as better.
Gifts has some better matchups, some worse matchups, but imo is less powerful overall. Most of the matchups elesh norn is good against, terminus is also good against, and terminus cant be pathed or spell quellered, unlike gifts.
I use to play 2 copies of gifts, 1 rites, and a couple of dudes in the board a while back has a "gotcha" sb plan but I wouldnt do that nowadays when i could just play terminus.
I think Esper is great against control and midrange game 1 and it gets a little bit worse game 2-3. Overall, we should win those matches. On the other hand, combo and big mana is not great game 1 and gets a lot better game 2-3. Overall, it's 50-50. Against aggro, we're bad. That's it
Are there any pilots with lots of Youtube videos of this deck in action? I'd like to plug a ton of games into a spreadsheet to see how individual cards perform, to tweak and build accordingly.
PimpDonny used to play Jeskai and Esper control religiously on twitch.tv. Maybe he uploads videos on youtube as well? I doubt it though since he's usually playing music.
Donny and Moondrius have streamed the deck before. I don't believe either of them use youtube but they probably have twitch vods saved.
Otherwise, I'm not aware of anyone who has a noteworthy amount of content on the deck.
Also, I 5-0'd last night's FNM with an Esper Draw-Go list if any of you are interested in it. I 2-1'd all of my matches, faced Jund, UR Pheonix, BG Rock, Grixis Shadow, and Dredge.
Growth Spiral is a hell of a card. Interesting list, only Azcanta seems out of place to me (and jace architect of thought, but i assume thats a typo?). I get that it works well with Reclamation, but I feel like you really want to utilize the instant speed of Growth Spiral and Teferi + with more instant speed disruption (t2 spiral a land and cast Snare/Path into jace, or t3 spiral a land and cast knot/removal into teferi). This also still works well with reclamation. This would also allow you the option to split your gravehate in the board to include RIP if you wanted. Reclamation also seems redundant to me, but I can't help but thinking that splashing green solely for Spiral is wrong... I think there might be some sort of cognitive error happening there though, spiral is absurd.
You should definitely start a bant control thread, or see if there is one already posted. and this might be better in UW control thread rather than Esper, since there is UWx here but not UWB.
Growth Spiral is a hell of a card. Interesting list, only Azcanta seems out of place to me (and jace architect of thought, but i assume thats a typo?). I get that it works well with Reclamation, but I feel like you really want to utilize the instant speed of Growth Spiral and Teferi + with more instant speed disruption (t2 spiral a land and cast Snare/Path into jace, or t3 spiral a land and cast knot/removal into teferi). This also still works well with reclamation. This would also allow you the option to split your gravehate in the board to include RIP if you wanted. Reclamation also seems redundant to me, but I can't help but thinking that splashing green solely for Spiral is wrong... I think there might be some sort of cognitive error happening there though, spiral is absurd.
You should definitely start a bant control thread, or see if there is one already posted. and this might be better in UW control thread rather than Esper, since there is UWx here but not UWB.
I've moved it to another thread and edited the original comment. Also, yes. Jace Architect was supposed to be JtMS.
As for the redundancy of Wilderness Reclamation, trust me, it will feel very different when you play with one resolved. That said, I'm not sure it's the best option, but it's nice.
Also, I 5-0'd last night's FNM with an Esper Draw-Go list if any of you are interested in it. I 2-1'd all of my matches, faced Jund, UR Pheonix, BG Rock, Grixis Shadow, and Dredge.
Moving forward, I would definitely switch to Terminus and add a Jace over something (I'm thinking either an Esper Charm or a TT). Charm is a little slow in this meta, and the discard mode can sometimes be dangerous, depending on your opponent. Think Twice is honestly pretty good right now, but I don't know what else to cut, and I don't know if cutting an ECharm is a good idea. I really like Zenith right now, since it can instantly stabilize the board (or win the game) in a way that Jace simply can't do.
I'd also have to test whether or not you really HAVE to play Opt with Terminus, as I've very rarely ever Opted into a Terminus when I needed to -- most of the time it's a random lucky Terminus on the draw step or a Jace-suicide to set up a Terminus, but I don't really sense Opt helping with that. I just cant help but not really want to play Opt at all to be honest. That said, I've gone a lot lower on Blessed Alliance recently (relevant against Bogles, which I haven't really seen recently), and the Dredge/Bridevine matchups are a real struggle, so that's why I'm really high on Terminus right now.
I may also be in the market for an Absorb or two, but I would have to retool the mana base.
Some extra notes that you may find interesting: I think Timely Reinforcements is in a great spot right now, hence why I've switched from my usual 3x Blessed Alliance. Gideon and DSPhere out of the board seem fine, I'm playing the Sphere over the 2nd Celestial Purge so I can hit Nissa, Vital Force out of the BGx sideboard.
So IDK why this primer was listed as unclaimed but I'm still around if people want to work on a primer update.
Most of the discussion seems to have moved to the #controlfreaks discord, for better or for worse.
Pimpdonny and moondrius still stream regularly but neither does video content.
Esper has been in a poor place for a few months with the fall of midrange; I personally switched to miracles in november and it appears I will be stuck there until terminus is no longer a must-play over verdict.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
I like a lot about this list, but I certainly have some questions. For example, do you just concede the dredge matchup? 2 Surges, a DSphere, a Halo, and Timely don't seem good enough. Why no Blessed Alliance?
I do think that card is well positioned right now, but are 4 Timely Reinforcements necessary? Why CoP Red?
On the other hand, I like trimming an ECharm. I also find it interesting that they're only playing 6 fetches, since I've been on only 6 fetches for ages. A Torrential Gearhulk might be pretty well positioned right now too.
CoP: Red is great against two of the most played archetypes right now in Burn and Phoenix. Specially since they have little to no interaction with it. As soon as you resolve it against burn you're almost guaranteed a win and vs Phoenix you only have to save the removal for the TiTis.
In my opinion 4 Timely are way too many... The dudes are completely irrelevant vs these two decks in particular and you actually don't need that much life to stay afloat if you're actively doing something.
Vendalken is cute but I think it's way too slow for my taste... I feel the same about Gearhulk (which I only like with the Academy Ruins recursion added in).
Overall this deck is somewhat too heavy on the GY synergy thing which forces it to not play RiP but I'd definitely play Leyline of the Void in order to not lose to Dredge that badly. Surgical is great specially with Snapcaster but I think it puts you in a tough spot.
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Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
I'm really glad to see that Esper did manage to get to day 2 ! The list looks good, I'm running something similar, but I feel that :
1) Vedalken Shackles feels odd.
2) 4 Timely Reinforcements is a lot. Too much I guess.
3) 6 fetches, really ?
4) Sideboard lacks disruption to my taste, but that could be my preference. I like 2 Thoughtseize.
5) Crucible of Worlds, Cataclysmic Gearhulk and Circle of Protection: Red are cool
Yeah, they're interesting but I'm not a fan. T gearhulk + 4 snap makes this look a lot more like a jeskai deck in function imo.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
1 Absorb has been great in everything I've played it in -- it's very relevant as another counterspell against Tron/control while giving you an edge against Burn so you can start to pull ahead with little to no investment. I don't know that I would play the 2nd, but I really like the one.
I got lucky finding my fields against Tron, but even in a long game 1 and 2, it only really bought a turn -- Esper Charm in Mind Rot mode, followed by Teferi is what really got there. Having a ton of hard counters post-board also helped. I tried to Field+Surg his Tron land in G2 and he countered it by Surging that target in response and failing to find. I still won that game tho. I did eventually find the 2nd Surg, but I was firmly winning at that point.
I also cast Zenith 3 times against my BG opponent. He could've taken it T1 with discard, but he decided not to. Fun times.
I've been pretty happy so far with a very similar list : 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor and 2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria is pretty stock with 3 Snapcaster Mage. I'm still playing 4 Serum Visions and the combination feels very strong to me since the addition of Teferi and SfA. The deck is under the radar and can perform to X-5 / X-2 results in GP I believe.
I feel like terminus is where you want to be. But I guess if you're playing 4 path and 4 fatal push, you can not depend on getting the lucky miracle terminus on turns 2-3, and wait till turn 4 to cast your sweeper. But I think you probably should be playing 14 turn 1 black sources (Karsten's mana source math). The GP list only plays 12. I'd at least switch the drowned catacomb to a marsh flats.
Gifts has some better matchups, some worse matchups, but imo is less powerful overall. Most of the matchups elesh norn is good against, terminus is also good against, and terminus cant be pathed or spell quellered, unlike gifts.
I use to play 2 copies of gifts, 1 rites, and a couple of dudes in the board a while back has a "gotcha" sb plan but I wouldnt do that nowadays when i could just play terminus.
Uhh, hi. Welcome to the thread. /sarcasm
Yeah, Esper has always been favored in control mirrors.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Edit : I've seen Esper Control lists 5-0ing MTGO and they were good looking. Pretty much where we want to be right now IMO. Links : https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-esper-control-63322#paper, https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1479787#paper
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Otherwise, I'm not aware of anyone who has a noteworthy amount of content on the deck.
Also, I 5-0'd last night's FNM with an Esper Draw-Go list if any of you are interested in it. I 2-1'd all of my matches, faced Jund, UR Pheonix, BG Rock, Grixis Shadow, and Dredge.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
You should definitely start a bant control thread, or see if there is one already posted. and this might be better in UW control thread rather than Esper, since there is UWx here but not UWB.
I've moved it to another thread and edited the original comment. Also, yes. Jace Architect was supposed to be JtMS.
As for the redundancy of Wilderness Reclamation, trust me, it will feel very different when you play with one resolved. That said, I'm not sure it's the best option, but it's nice.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
List please for your 5-0 ?
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
3x Celestial Colonnade
1x Reflecting Pool
2x Drowned Catacombs
3x Field of Ruin
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Watery Grave
3x Island
2x Plains
1x Swamp
Wincons (5)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1x White Sun's Zenith
2x Search for Azcanta
4x Think Twice
4x Esper Charm
2x Snapcaster Mage
Removal (10)
4x Path to Exile
2x Fatal Push
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God
1x Day of Judgement
Counters (8)
1x Spell Snare
3x Logic Knot
1x Negate
3x Cryptic Command
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Dispel
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Negate
1x Detention Sphere
1x Gideon of the Trials
1x Spell Queller
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Vendilion Clique
Moving forward, I would definitely switch to Terminus and add a Jace over something (I'm thinking either an Esper Charm or a TT). Charm is a little slow in this meta, and the discard mode can sometimes be dangerous, depending on your opponent. Think Twice is honestly pretty good right now, but I don't know what else to cut, and I don't know if cutting an ECharm is a good idea. I really like Zenith right now, since it can instantly stabilize the board (or win the game) in a way that Jace simply can't do.
I'd also have to test whether or not you really HAVE to play Opt with Terminus, as I've very rarely ever Opted into a Terminus when I needed to -- most of the time it's a random lucky Terminus on the draw step or a Jace-suicide to set up a Terminus, but I don't really sense Opt helping with that. I just cant help but not really want to play Opt at all to be honest. That said, I've gone a lot lower on Blessed Alliance recently (relevant against Bogles, which I haven't really seen recently), and the Dredge/Bridevine matchups are a real struggle, so that's why I'm really high on Terminus right now.
I may also be in the market for an Absorb or two, but I would have to retool the mana base.
Some extra notes that you may find interesting: I think Timely Reinforcements is in a great spot right now, hence why I've switched from my usual 3x Blessed Alliance. Gideon and DSPhere out of the board seem fine, I'm playing the Sphere over the 2nd Celestial Purge so I can hit Nissa, Vital Force out of the BGx sideboard.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Most of the discussion seems to have moved to the #controlfreaks discord, for better or for worse.
Pimpdonny and moondrius still stream regularly but neither does video content.
Esper has been in a poor place for a few months with the fall of midrange; I personally switched to miracles in november and it appears I will be stuck there until terminus is no longer a must-play over verdict.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
4x Island
3x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
3x Celestial Colonnade
3x Field of Ruin
2x Watery Grave
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
2x Plains
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Swamp
Creatures
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Cryptic Command
4x Path to Exile
3x Fatal Push
3x Esper Charm
2x Logic Knot
2x Negate
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Vedalken Shackles
4x Opt
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Dispel
2x Negate
1x Runed Halo
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Damping Sphere
1x Wrath of God
1x Cataclysmic Gearhulk
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Detention Sphere
2x Timely Reinforcements
I like a lot about this list, but I certainly have some questions. For example, do you just concede the dredge matchup? 2 Surges, a DSphere, a Halo, and Timely don't seem good enough. Why no Blessed Alliance?
I do think that card is well positioned right now, but are 4 Timely Reinforcements necessary? Why CoP Red?
On the other hand, I like trimming an ECharm. I also find it interesting that they're only playing 6 fetches, since I've been on only 6 fetches for ages. A Torrential Gearhulk might be pretty well positioned right now too.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
In my opinion 4 Timely are way too many... The dudes are completely irrelevant vs these two decks in particular and you actually don't need that much life to stay afloat if you're actively doing something.
Vendalken is cute but I think it's way too slow for my taste... I feel the same about Gearhulk (which I only like with the Academy Ruins recursion added in).
Overall this deck is somewhat too heavy on the GY synergy thing which forces it to not play RiP but I'd definitely play Leyline of the Void in order to not lose to Dredge that badly. Surgical is great specially with Snapcaster but I think it puts you in a tough spot.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
1) Vedalken Shackles feels odd.
2) 4 Timely Reinforcements is a lot. Too much I guess.
3) 6 fetches, really ?
4) Sideboard lacks disruption to my taste, but that could be my preference. I like 2 Thoughtseize.
5) Crucible of Worlds, Cataclysmic Gearhulk and Circle of Protection: Red are cool
Cheers !
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Reflecting Pool
2x Drowned Catacombs
2x Field of Ruin
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Watery Grave
3x Island
2x Plains
1x Swamp
Wincons (3)
2x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1x White Sun's Zenith
2x Search for Azcanta
4x Think Twice
4x Esper Charm
2x Snapcaster Mage
Removal (9)
4x Path to Exile
1x Fatal Push
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Settle the Wreckage
Counters (11)
2x Spell Snare
3x Logic Knot
1x Negate
1x Absorb
4x Cryptic Command
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Dispel
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Negate
1x Detention Sphere
1x Gideon of the Trials
3x Spell Queller
2x Timely Reinforcements
1 Absorb has been great in everything I've played it in -- it's very relevant as another counterspell against Tron/control while giving you an edge against Burn so you can start to pull ahead with little to no investment. I don't know that I would play the 2nd, but I really like the one.
I got lucky finding my fields against Tron, but even in a long game 1 and 2, it only really bought a turn -- Esper Charm in Mind Rot mode, followed by Teferi is what really got there. Having a ton of hard counters post-board also helped. I tried to Field+Surg his Tron land in G2 and he countered it by Surging that target in response and failing to find. I still won that game tho. I did eventually find the 2nd Surg, but I was firmly winning at that point.
I also cast Zenith 3 times against my BG opponent. He could've taken it T1 with discard, but he decided not to. Fun times.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I've been pretty happy so far with a very similar list : 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor and 2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria is pretty stock with 3 Snapcaster Mage. I'm still playing 4 Serum Visions and the combination feels very strong to me since the addition of Teferi and SfA. The deck is under the radar and can perform to X-5 / X-2 results in GP I believe.
Cheers !
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R