The point I'm making is the same one I've always made. I don't think these lingering souls builds are an improvement.
I don't think we need to fundamentally change the structure of the deck here.
The "go smaller" versions of this deck have never felt as good to me, and I don't think that a meta change is the deciding factor here.
I don't think adding an additional few sorcery speed spells fundamentally changes the structure of the deck. I also don't think anyone is trying to make it a go 'smallet' version, just trying to figure out the best way for Esper to capitalize on Azcanta, as the other UWx decks have, to substantial success I might add. None of the options put forward so far are particularly appealing,but at least we're brainstorming.
Only 60% of these are the Geist/Queller Tempo deck. In some ways, this is a bad thing, since at any point in time people can blow blue decks out of the metagame with the BS anti-blue hate cards like Choke and Boil.
Only 60% of these are the Geist/Queller Tempo deck. In some ways, this is a bad thing, since at any point in time people can blow blue decks out of the metagame with the BS anti-blue hate cards like Choke and Boil.
I'm very concerned by this. I've voiced my concerns about this over in the UW forum, and I'm thinking that us UWx players are going to have to shift our main decks to beat mirror, pseudo mirror and decks that beat stock versions of us (ie dredge)
Only 60% of these are the Geist/Queller Tempo deck. In some ways, this is a bad thing, since at any point in time people can blow blue decks out of the metagame with the BS anti-blue hate cards like Choke and Boil.
I'm very concerned by this. I've voiced my concerns about this over in the UW forum, and I'm thinking that us UWx players are going to have to shift our main decks to beat mirror, pseudo mirror and decks that beat stock versions of us (ie dredge)
Well Esper Charm buries control opponents (especially when running Blessed Alliance main to help against URx) and Surgical from the board hoses unfair graveyard decks. Esper seems like the best for your predicted meta shift. Choke/Boil are beyond frustrating tho.
Ehi guys! Nobody here talked about the pro tour. No UWx decks in the top8! What do you think? Any thoughts on Corey's Grixis list with 4 Cryptic Command, 4 Kolaghan's Command AND 4 Field of Ruin? 4 colorless lands
BTW this is my current list
I don't remember if I made a post on my predictions, but this is more or less what I expected.
Jeskai would majorly underperform, UW control would do a lot better, but still fall short of top 8-ing (I figured we'd see 0-1 UW control top 8, and it would have to be a very good player. Nassif being the top ranked player on UW lines up well).
SfA didn't show up much at all. Lantern played 1 in the board, and the UR deck didn't play it at all.
That all being said, that doesn't neccessarily mean UW/X is bad. It doesn't mean that grixis is all that good.
The pro tour has historically created some interesting metagames that don't always have much of an effect on the meta at large.
I personally am not a huge fan of corey's list, but its not that wild.
His normal lists played 21-22 lands, so adding 3-4 lands in field of ruin isn't terribly strange if you just view them like spreading seas. Instead of drawing a card, they cast a free rampant growth.
I definitely would not play gearhulk in your list. Your sideboard is also a bit of a mess, but its not terrible.
I have also been on and off think twice as well. I don't have the chance to play all that much magic right now, so I've still yet to find a list I'm happy with, but if SfA makes the cut, I can see dropping think twice entirely/nearly entirely.
UW Control had great numbers. 9% of the players that brought it got 24+ points (8-2 or better) in Modern, the best rate of any deck in the tournament. The numbers for UWR seem terrible, but it seems that the decklists were basically all the Midrange geist version:
I wouldn't place much stock in Nassif or Majlalton falling short of a top 8, especially when Majlaton had the best record anyone got during the Modern portion. There were more UW pilots going 7-3 or better than there were Lantern or Mardu Pyromancer. Search for Azcanta was in every control deck that did well. I think the lack of Azcanta or Ancestral Visions was why the UWR Midrange decks bombed out. They basically have no way to draw an extra card unless you count cantripping with Cryptics. Same goes for Burkhart's awkward Grixis Tempo/Control lists that finally found a good replacement for Ancestral Visions and went up to 25 lands with Field of Ruin.
That's the thing, really. You have a lot of blue control decks that were never strong enough to consistently win late, so they had to have a mild tempo plan to close out games. I wouldn't be surprised if over the next few months, guys like Burkhart move away from random cards like Tasigur and UWR Midrange pilots start dropping the tempo creatures. Especially if Wizards goes ahead and unbans Bloodbraid or something of the sort, forcing the format towards Midrange.
I expected a pro team to come with UW or UWR Control, and was surprised to see only a few random guys on it. I think there's a lot to be said for it only being a good choice if you have a ton of experience with it, and most pros don't really play Modern like that.
I personally think UWR tempo is a little different, because it has enough burn/tempo creatures now with queller to actually make the mild tempo plan a real deck.
Grixis though, I've definitely felt that cruel control was a better direction to take the archetype than the smaller, delve-heavy versions that have been popular.
I will say again, I'm not surprised no pro team showed up with UWR, because they'd have to decide that doing that was a good meta call, and that struck me as incredibly unlikely.
A good number of pro players showed up with UW, I don't really follow teams well enough to know if many of them were together or not.
No pro teams showed up with a Control deck because that’s how you get a 6-4 record at the Pro Tour. Typically the guys who show up playing Control are the ones who are very strong limited players, because they don’t want any single MU to punt them out of cashing the event.
Better draft players play safer decks because they expect to have better records, while less experienced or skilled drafters play decks with more 8-2 capability to make up for their poor draft performances.
You find that kind of metagaming almost exclusively at the highest levels of play, whereas at Opens its all constructed or all limited and if you’re no good st that format you typically don’t register. Pro Tour doesn’t have that luxury.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
@RoboMemer on Discord
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
Ive been playing Esper draw go for close to 4 years now, with just a short break because modern frustrates me.
Ive been pretty "purist" in the draw go aspect as you can see from my list below. Im having some difficulties in the tron matchups as wll as humans.
Im also considering some experimental cards to give another shot. Lingering souls, Collective brutality and *cough* sprout swarm...
Inspired by pauper I think a single sprout swarm could serve as a wincon as well as a STW type effect to jam the boards early game. With people starting to get interested in Lingering souls too they seem like they could be decent together. Im just throwing this out there but what do you think of my theoretical list and ideas here?
This list has been really solid for my local diverse meta. Almost every top deck shows up weekly with only shadow variants and control varients being duplicates.
The version of the deck I am wanting to test is something like this:
Changes are marked in bold. This version actually looks pretty decent and allows us to commit to the board and put pressure turns 5-6 if our opponent is doing nothing, while still acting on their end step or holding counterspells with souls. Im trying 2 Breeding pools just because of all the land destruction around, I dont want 1 ghost quarter cutting us off.
This is what Ill be playing this week and ill let yall know how it goes.
Ive been playing Esper draw go for close to 4 years now, with just a short break because modern frustrates me.
Ive been pretty "purist" in the draw go aspect as you can see from my list below. Im having some difficulties in the tron matchups as wll as humans.
Im also considering some experimental cards to give another shot. Lingering souls, Collective brutality and *cough* sprout swarm...
Inspired by pauper I think a single sprout swarm could serve as a wincon as well as a STW type effect to jam the boards early game. With people starting to get interested in Lingering souls too they seem like they could be decent together. Im just throwing this out there but what do you think of my theoretical list and ideas here?
This list has been really solid for my local diverse meta. Almost every top deck shows up weekly with only shadow variants and control varients being duplicates.
The version of the deck I am wanting to test is something like this:
Changes are marked in bold. This version actually looks pretty decent and allows us to commit to the board and put pressure turns 5-6 if our opponent is doing nothing, while still acting on their end step or holding counterspells with souls. Im trying 2 Breeding pools just because of all the land destruction around, I dont want 1 ghost quarter cutting us off.
This is what Ill be playing this week and ill let yall know how it goes.
Sprout Swarm seems a little strange to splash green for just 1 card. If you're looking for the grind engine, why not just do the Thopter/Sword of the Meek Combo? Stays in your color and grinds better. You're having problems with Tron, what is your sideboard? With Tron you need to be aggressive and put early pressure. Ideally casting Snap as an Ambush Viper on 2 and following up with either a turn 3 Geist or an opponent's draw phase Vendilion Clique. I've been running Esper Transcendent lately and it's been doing really well.
You dont need early pressure at all vs tron.
You can essentially answer every threat they have, especially post board.
You need to keep hands that aren't dead to turn 3 tron (have atleast 1 piece of early interaction).
I would generally suggest not using snapcaster mage as an ambush viper, as you'll generally need it as another answer. In games 2-3 (or 1 if they're playing mono green) snapcaster mage + cryptic command loops can be pretty strong.
[quote from="Dmbb1239 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/571123-modern-esper-draw-go?comment=12840"] Sprout Swarm seems a little strange to splash green for just 1 card. If you're looking for the grind engine, why not just do the Thopter/Sword of the Meek Combo? Stays in your color and grinds better. You're having problems with Tron, what is your sideboard? With Tron you need to be aggressive and put early pressure. Ideally casting Snap as an Ambush Viper on 2 and following up with either a turn 3 Geist or an opponent's draw phase Vendilion Clique. I've been running Esper Transcendent lately and it's been doing really well.
0
<%= CL.Global.Ratings.ClickToLike.ToString() %>
It does seem a bit odd, but I got the idea from ub control in pauper where they splash green just for it, and I gotta imagine its synergy with souls is great. The biggest upside for me over thopeter sword is the fact that its instant speed.
On phone. Super exited for modern. 4x jace. Cut lands. Sphinx rev is gone. StW is probably still fine. UWR stock is way up cuz bolt + asymmetric benefit of sharing new CA engine that's better than E charm. Not sure how esper deals with other U decks now. Anguished and cryptic feel really expensive to cast now imo.
I think as mentioned, this changes everything. Commenting on what to take out of the stock deck and what to add isn't where we should be. Starting over, what deck are we playing now that jace is in the pool is where we should be.
Is black worth playing? Is grixis or jeskai better? Is UW or UR or rug or bug best?
Leyline still protects planeswalkers from bolts, but I wonder how long that will continue. We've heard rumors in the past about this being changed, unbanning jace might be a step towards that.
If thats the case, then the super-friends list with 4 leylines amalek posted last time people talked about jace in modern might not be as appealing.
Are miracles worth it? I know the meme-y u/w miracles deck with the 4 mana 2/2 brainstorm guy from ixalan has popped up a bit recently, but especially with jace n the format now, no way you're catching me dead playing 4 mana 2/2s.
I'm guessing lack of top/brainstorm is too much to make miracles work, and verdict is good enough in modern anyways.
I think UR, probably with moons? is worth looking into. The deck has always struggled with having a wincon, as options like other planeswalkers, keranos, pnk, batterskull, vedalken shackles, cliques + snap + bolt, etc, are all problematic. With jace + moon + countermagic you might have a deck. What that deck looks like though, who knows. Having to deal with creatures in U/R sucks.
Our plan of hitting a bunch of land drops for X spells is looking the worst its ever been. Jace being card advantage + finisher is nice, and potentially warps our deck a lot. It seems a no brainer to say think twice is almost assuredly out at this point.
Assuming esper keeps a moderately similar core, I don't think we'll have too much trouble fighting opposing blue decks.
We've historically always been good at that, and everyone getting a 4 mana sorcery speed card advantage engine isn't going to change that much. You still have to resolve it. Esper charms being instant speed card advantage is still a huge plus for us, not to mention mind rots make it easier to resolve our own jaces.
Some of us have been very iffy on SfA, I wonder if it still makes the cut with jace in the pool? I could see dropping it and playing jace instead, I could see playing both side by side, etc.
I disagree with cryptic being bad. If BBE comes around, answering it at parity is nice (4 mana/4 mana, we draw a card, they get a cascade). Answering jace at mana parity + card advantage is nice. If tron pokes up to beat down the jace decks, having cryptic there is nice. Its hard to say out the meta will shake out, but I'm not inclined to think less of cryptic just yet.
I'm inclined to think decks not playing esper charm are likely to play SFA + jace together in some numbers, but if we stay esper we don't have to.
Interestingly, if other control decks try to hedge too much on jace as the blue-breaker, esper could be very well positioned. We're good vs tron/valakut, we're acceptable vs storm, we're acceptable vs traditional aggro, and we're potentially good vs blue mirrors.
I think as mentioned, this changes everything. Commenting on what to take out of the stock deck and what to add isn't where we should be. Starting over, what deck are we playing now that jace is in the pool is where we should be.
Is black worth playing? Is grixis or jeskai better? Is UW or UR or rug or bug best?
Leyline still protects planeswalkers from bolts, but I wonder how long that will continue. We've heard rumors in the past about this being changed, unbanning jace might be a step towards that.
If thats the case, then the super-friends list with 4 leylines amalek posted last time people talked about jace in modern might not be as appealing.
Are miracles worth it? I know the meme-y u/w miracles deck with the 4 mana 2/2 brainstorm guy from ixalan has popped up a bit recently, but especially with jace n the format now, no way you're catching me dead playing 4 mana 2/2s.
I'm guessing lack of top/brainstorm is too much to make miracles work, and verdict is good enough in modern anyways.
I think UR, probably with moons? is worth looking into. The deck has always struggled with having a wincon, as options like other planeswalkers, keranos, pnk, batterskull, vedalken shackles, cliques + snap + bolt, etc, are all problematic. With jace + moon + countermagic you might have a deck. What that deck looks like though, who knows. Having to deal with creatures in U/R sucks.
Our plan of hitting a bunch of land drops for X spells is looking the worst its ever been. Jace being card advantage + finisher is nice, and potentially warps our deck a lot. It seems a no brainer to say think twice is almost assuredly out at this point.
Assuming esper keeps a moderately similar core, I don't think we'll have too much trouble fighting opposing blue decks.
We've historically always been good at that, and everyone getting a 4 mana sorcery speed card advantage engine isn't going to change that much. You still have to resolve it. Esper charms being instant speed card advantage is still a huge plus for us, not to mention mind rots make it easier to resolve our own jaces.
Some of us have been very iffy on SfA, I wonder if it still makes the cut with jace in the pool? I could see dropping it and playing jace instead, I could see playing both side by side, etc.
I disagree with cryptic being bad. If BBE comes around, answering it at parity is nice (4 mana/4 mana, we draw a card, they get a cascade). Answering jace at mana parity + card advantage is nice. If tron pokes up to beat down the jace decks, having cryptic there is nice. Its hard to say out the meta will shake out, but I'm not inclined to think less of cryptic just yet.
I'm inclined to think decks not playing esper charm are likely to play SFA + jace together in some numbers, but if we stay esper we don't have to.
Interestingly, if other control decks try to hedge too much on jace as the blue-breaker, esper could be very well positioned. We're good vs tron/valakut, we're acceptable vs storm, we're acceptable vs traditional aggro, and we're potentially good vs blue mirrors.
I wouldn't discount Think Twice just yet -- if every blue deck is playing Jace, then instant speed card draw will be imperative (as tapping for Seas/Search/Serum/planeswalkers has a much higher chance of backfiring). I think Think Twice is looking better than ever tbh.
Also, I'm not super comfortable against the aggro decks with Esper. It could be time to invest in a mainboard Timely, especially with Jace+fetch shuffling it away. I also like the idea of Cast Out a lot better now too, maybe Hero's Downfall.
I don't think adding an additional few sorcery speed spells fundamentally changes the structure of the deck. I also don't think anyone is trying to make it a go 'smallet' version, just trying to figure out the best way for Esper to capitalize on Azcanta, as the other UWx decks have, to substantial success I might add. None of the options put forward so far are particularly appealing,but at least we're brainstorming.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-jeskai-control-40120#online
Only 60% of these are the Geist/Queller Tempo deck. In some ways, this is a bad thing, since at any point in time people can blow blue decks out of the metagame with the BS anti-blue hate cards like Choke and Boil.
I'm very concerned by this. I've voiced my concerns about this over in the UW forum, and I'm thinking that us UWx players are going to have to shift our main decks to beat mirror, pseudo mirror and decks that beat stock versions of us (ie dredge)
I would think that this is great news for an Esper Charm and Surgical Extraction deck.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Well Esper Charm buries control opponents (especially when running Blessed Alliance main to help against URx) and Surgical from the board hoses unfair graveyard decks. Esper seems like the best for your predicted meta shift. Choke/Boil are beyond frustrating tho.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
BTW this is my current list
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Field of Ruin
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
Creature (4):
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
4 Opt
1 Spell Snare
3 Logic Knot
1 Negate
2 Search for Azcanta//Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin
4 Esper Charm
4 Cryptic Command
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Secure the Wastes
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Negate
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Stony Silence
1 Gideon of the Trials
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
I'm currently playing without Think Twice, I'm not sure it's right but I want to try the raw power of Search for Azcanta. I'm also trying Torrential Gearhulk, and that's why I have a Settle the Wreckage mainboard.
Jeskai would majorly underperform, UW control would do a lot better, but still fall short of top 8-ing (I figured we'd see 0-1 UW control top 8, and it would have to be a very good player. Nassif being the top ranked player on UW lines up well).
SfA didn't show up much at all. Lantern played 1 in the board, and the UR deck didn't play it at all.
That all being said, that doesn't neccessarily mean UW/X is bad. It doesn't mean that grixis is all that good.
The pro tour has historically created some interesting metagames that don't always have much of an effect on the meta at large.
I personally am not a huge fan of corey's list, but its not that wild.
His normal lists played 21-22 lands, so adding 3-4 lands in field of ruin isn't terribly strange if you just view them like spreading seas. Instead of drawing a card, they cast a free rampant growth.
I definitely would not play gearhulk in your list. Your sideboard is also a bit of a mess, but its not terrible.
I have also been on and off think twice as well. I don't have the chance to play all that much magic right now, so I've still yet to find a list I'm happy with, but if SfA makes the cut, I can see dropping think twice entirely/nearly entirely.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/pro-tour-rivals-of-ixalan-by-the-numbers
I wouldn't place much stock in Nassif or Majlalton falling short of a top 8, especially when Majlaton had the best record anyone got during the Modern portion. There were more UW pilots going 7-3 or better than there were Lantern or Mardu Pyromancer. Search for Azcanta was in every control deck that did well. I think the lack of Azcanta or Ancestral Visions was why the UWR Midrange decks bombed out. They basically have no way to draw an extra card unless you count cantripping with Cryptics. Same goes for Burkhart's awkward Grixis Tempo/Control lists that finally found a good replacement for Ancestral Visions and went up to 25 lands with Field of Ruin.
That's the thing, really. You have a lot of blue control decks that were never strong enough to consistently win late, so they had to have a mild tempo plan to close out games. I wouldn't be surprised if over the next few months, guys like Burkhart move away from random cards like Tasigur and UWR Midrange pilots start dropping the tempo creatures. Especially if Wizards goes ahead and unbans Bloodbraid or something of the sort, forcing the format towards Midrange.
I expected a pro team to come with UW or UWR Control, and was surprised to see only a few random guys on it. I think there's a lot to be said for it only being a good choice if you have a ton of experience with it, and most pros don't really play Modern like that.
Grixis though, I've definitely felt that cruel control was a better direction to take the archetype than the smaller, delve-heavy versions that have been popular.
I will say again, I'm not surprised no pro team showed up with UWR, because they'd have to decide that doing that was a good meta call, and that struck me as incredibly unlikely.
A good number of pro players showed up with UW, I don't really follow teams well enough to know if many of them were together or not.
Better draft players play safer decks because they expect to have better records, while less experienced or skilled drafters play decks with more 8-2 capability to make up for their poor draft performances.
You find that kind of metagaming almost exclusively at the highest levels of play, whereas at Opens its all constructed or all limited and if you’re no good st that format you typically don’t register. Pro Tour doesn’t have that luxury.
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
Ive been playing Esper draw go for close to 4 years now, with just a short break because modern frustrates me.
Ive been pretty "purist" in the draw go aspect as you can see from my list below. Im having some difficulties in the tron matchups as wll as humans.
Im also considering some experimental cards to give another shot. Lingering souls, Collective brutality and *cough* sprout swarm...
Inspired by pauper I think a single sprout swarm could serve as a wincon as well as a STW type effect to jam the boards early game. With people starting to get interested in Lingering souls too they seem like they could be decent together. Im just throwing this out there but what do you think of my theoretical list and ideas here?
Heres my current list:
2x Celestial Collonade
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Shambling vents
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Drowned Catacomb
3x Island
1x Swamp
1x Plains
4x FLooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
1x Marsh Flats
3x Snapcaster
3x Opt
2x Think Twice
4x Esper Charm
3x Spell Snare
2x Logic Knot
4x Cryptic Command
4x Path to exile
1x Shadow of DOubt
1x Settle the Wreckage
1x Search for Azcanta
1x White Sun's Xenith
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Mystical Teachings
1x SPhinxs Rev
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Elspeth
1x Negate
This list has been really solid for my local diverse meta. Almost every top deck shows up weekly with only shadow variants and control varients being duplicates.
The version of the deck I am wanting to test is something like this:
2x Celestial Collonade
2x Breeding Pool
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Drowned Catacomb
3x Island
1x Swamp
1x Plains
4x FLooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
1x Misty Rainforest
3x Snapcaster
3x Opt
1x Think Twice
3x Esper Charm
3x Spell Snare
2x Logic Knot
4x Cryptic Command
3x Path to exile
1x Sprout Swarm
1x Settle the Wreckage
1x Search for Azcanta
1x White Sun's Xenith
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Mystical Teachings
1x Sphinxs Rev
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Collective Brutality
1x Negate
2x Lingering Souls
Changes are marked in bold. This version actually looks pretty decent and allows us to commit to the board and put pressure turns 5-6 if our opponent is doing nothing, while still acting on their end step or holding counterspells with souls. Im trying 2 Breeding pools just because of all the land destruction around, I dont want 1 ghost quarter cutting us off.
This is what Ill be playing this week and ill let yall know how it goes.
You can essentially answer every threat they have, especially post board.
You need to keep hands that aren't dead to turn 3 tron (have atleast 1 piece of early interaction).
I would generally suggest not using snapcaster mage as an ambush viper, as you'll generally need it as another answer. In games 2-3 (or 1 if they're playing mono green) snapcaster mage + cryptic command loops can be pretty strong.
It does seem a bit odd, but I got the idea from ub control in pauper where they splash green just for it, and I gotta imagine its synergy with souls is great. The biggest upside for me over thopeter sword is the fact that its instant speed.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I think as mentioned, this changes everything. Commenting on what to take out of the stock deck and what to add isn't where we should be. Starting over, what deck are we playing now that jace is in the pool is where we should be.
Is black worth playing? Is grixis or jeskai better? Is UW or UR or rug or bug best?
Leyline still protects planeswalkers from bolts, but I wonder how long that will continue. We've heard rumors in the past about this being changed, unbanning jace might be a step towards that.
If thats the case, then the super-friends list with 4 leylines amalek posted last time people talked about jace in modern might not be as appealing.
Are miracles worth it? I know the meme-y u/w miracles deck with the 4 mana 2/2 brainstorm guy from ixalan has popped up a bit recently, but especially with jace n the format now, no way you're catching me dead playing 4 mana 2/2s.
I'm guessing lack of top/brainstorm is too much to make miracles work, and verdict is good enough in modern anyways.
I think UR, probably with moons? is worth looking into. The deck has always struggled with having a wincon, as options like other planeswalkers, keranos, pnk, batterskull, vedalken shackles, cliques + snap + bolt, etc, are all problematic. With jace + moon + countermagic you might have a deck. What that deck looks like though, who knows. Having to deal with creatures in U/R sucks.
Our plan of hitting a bunch of land drops for X spells is looking the worst its ever been. Jace being card advantage + finisher is nice, and potentially warps our deck a lot. It seems a no brainer to say think twice is almost assuredly out at this point.
Assuming esper keeps a moderately similar core, I don't think we'll have too much trouble fighting opposing blue decks.
We've historically always been good at that, and everyone getting a 4 mana sorcery speed card advantage engine isn't going to change that much. You still have to resolve it. Esper charms being instant speed card advantage is still a huge plus for us, not to mention mind rots make it easier to resolve our own jaces.
Some of us have been very iffy on SfA, I wonder if it still makes the cut with jace in the pool? I could see dropping it and playing jace instead, I could see playing both side by side, etc.
I disagree with cryptic being bad. If BBE comes around, answering it at parity is nice (4 mana/4 mana, we draw a card, they get a cascade). Answering jace at mana parity + card advantage is nice. If tron pokes up to beat down the jace decks, having cryptic there is nice. Its hard to say out the meta will shake out, but I'm not inclined to think less of cryptic just yet.
I'm inclined to think decks not playing esper charm are likely to play SFA + jace together in some numbers, but if we stay esper we don't have to.
Interestingly, if other control decks try to hedge too much on jace as the blue-breaker, esper could be very well positioned. We're good vs tron/valakut, we're acceptable vs storm, we're acceptable vs traditional aggro, and we're potentially good vs blue mirrors.
I wouldn't discount Think Twice just yet -- if every blue deck is playing Jace, then instant speed card draw will be imperative (as tapping for Seas/Search/Serum/planeswalkers has a much higher chance of backfiring). I think Think Twice is looking better than ever tbh.
Also, I'm not super comfortable against the aggro decks with Esper. It could be time to invest in a mainboard Timely, especially with Jace+fetch shuffling it away. I also like the idea of Cast Out a lot better now too, maybe Hero's Downfall.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.