Played Esper control in 10 consecutive LGS events, only lost 6 matches so far in total. People started packing hate pretty heavily for me (MB Thrun out of a Jund deck, for example) so I think I'm going to let this sit for a few weeks and play something else. Our deck justdoesn't do well when the opponents are packing hate for us hardcore in SB.
Last story for the foreseeable:
Tuesday, round 2 im playing against the veteran RG TitanShift player and I'm on the play.
I have 2 MB Runed Halo so I mull to 5 in order to get one. Land it turn 2, ride to an easy G1.
G2 he does what he does, has 7 mana t4. I'm relaxed because I have Negate Snap and logic Knot in hand, and I'm planning to Esper charm EOT if he does nothing. He casts pact and I think nothing of it, I'll just counter PrimeTime and have 1 less to worry about.
THE MOTHER F****R GRABS A GAEA'S REVENGE WHEN I HAD BOARDED OUT ALL MY SUPREME VERDICTS. Even putting 2 cats in play didn't save me, I couldn't race that guy. /sadDays
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Hi all. What would you say are Esper Draw-go's worst MU's?
Dredge and Burn both come readily to mind, mostly because of how awful the first games are. I can't speak for everyone, but I have 3 Surgicals in my board, so Dredge post-board becomes a race of whether I can mulligan/dig to my Surgicals before he establishes board presence. VS Burn, I put in 2 Dispels, 2 Blessed Alliance, a Purge, and a Negate, and I hope for the best.
The reason to play control is because we don't have a "core" game plan, which means we are very versatile post-board. Our G1 is rarely as good as our G2/3 against a deck.
Burn and dredge are awful G1, G2/3 are much more manageable.
What I consider my worst matchup is big mana - they aren't doing something we can stop (targeted damage, abusing the yard, building a storm count) they are simply trying to cast expensive spells earlier in the game. Very difficult to keep up with them. Tron, Eldrazi decks, valakut are what come to mind here.
Spell-based combo is hit or miss, depending on build. If you have a clock in board, you can typically put them out of the game quickly. Read: snapcaster, v clique, and manlands get you there with minimal counter backup
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Yeah I understand what you were saying, that part of my post was more directed at TheAnnihilator. I picked up a Batterskull recently that I didn't get as an Esper purchase, but atm I've got it in my board nonetheless. The fact that Baneslayer doesn't have vigilance kind of scares me vs burn, but I suspect the Angel is actually pretty good because odds are they don't have the skullcrack?
Also does ceremonious do anything vs a non tron deck? If not I'd rather just go all in and play the singleton Steam Vent for Crumble (and I don't even do that...) I guess it comes in vs affinity, but I can't imagine it's good enough there to justify it.
Problem with Batterskull for me was always the lack of flying, vulnerability to removal, and small size.
1) Lack of Flying: Decks like Affinity can completely ignore Batterskull, since nearly every card in the deck has evasion. Some decks will actually chump block or sac/kill their blocker.
2) Vulnerability to Removal: Abrupt Decay isn't a thing anymore, but Fatal Push is. Both these cards get hit by Liliana, but if I was going to gamble on boarding one of these against Death's Shadow for the auto-win, I'd go with the one that blanks more of the removal that they leave in.
3) Small Size: Thought-Knot Seer trades. Reality Smasher, Tarmogoyf, Tasigur, Angler, Thrun, etc. all bulldoze Batterskull. It also can end up trading with a 1-drop + removal spell; first strike is a powerful thing.
You'd think it doesn't matter because you can keep bringing it back, but the last match I played with Batterskull in my deck was at a GP a few years back, where a Jund player Abrupt Decayed and Liliana'd the token twice, causing me to trade 13 mana for his 5.
In regards to Ceremonious Rejection, it does efficiently counter all of the blowout cards for 2 Tier 1 decks (Eldrazi & Affinity). I only added it because Eldrazi felt too random of a matchup, but it's definitely the first card on the chopping block for me. Magic Online just has so much Death's Shadow and Eldrazi that I want to make sure I'm killing both decks after sideboarding.
Lot of this is good stuff. Main point for me is I didn't really think about how much better Baneslayer is in our brave new Fatal Push world. Only thing I can really criticize is nowadays I don't think Baneslayer can block Goyf either--those things get massive now. I think I'll try out a pair.
About MUs I think the bant spirit decks are obnoxious to play against. Cavern of Souls plus Spell Queller is a thing.
Mono G tron is the only big mana deck that is super hard to beat imo.
I'm playing Secure over Zenith in the main for the Burn, Valakut, etc. matchups, with the option to bring in Zenith instead in games 2/3 if it's a matchup where I want the longevity (Abzan Company, Tron with Oblivion Stone, etc.) or where I expect to see grave hate boarded in (ie. Bant Eldrazi, etc.). Not sure that I shouldn't just be playing Elspeth in the board, but this seems reasonable, so I'll try it out.
I did some extensive testing against Burn today, and the most consistent wins I got always came from Finks. I'm opting to play them over Timely Reinforcements since you can cast it when ahead or behind, and it always at least blocks (even if they skullcrack the first etb) and I can see myself bringing it in versus Shadow matchups. Timely really would only come in against Burn, but I can see Finks being useful in many more matchups. I don't know if I want to play the 3rd Finks yet, but right now I'm leaning towards playing it.
I would usually play a 2nd Negate main, but I cut it for the 2nd Secure. I think I'd rather have the extra percentage points I get for playing a mb Blessed Allaince against Eldrazi and Bolt decks -- especially against delve threats -- considering that there are relatively few matchups that I want to play Negate against, so I'm favoring the Alliance for now. The only issue is that I don't have the room to play the 3rd Negate in the 75, which is something I'd want versus control and combo decks, so it's a double-edged sword.
I'm opting into the Godless Shrine over the 2nd Plains because the decks playing Blood Moon also don't really call for Supreme Verdict mana (ie. I don't expect Ponza to show up). I'm playing both a Reflecting Pool, for UW mana Fixing and a way to T3 ECharm, and 1 Drowned Catacomb for T3 ECharms. Only playing 1 GQ because I've also come to agree that the card is a little too taxing on the manabase -- I am unwilling to cut it entirely, though, because of cards like Sea Gate Wreckage, Cavern of Souls, and Academy Ruins. Everything else is pretty standard.
For Eldrazi, Tron, and Titanshift. I've playtested everything from Ceremnius Rejection to Geist of Saint Traft and I just want Stroke, really. Chalice on 1 is a problem when playing Rejection (and they always put it on 1 assuming we play Visions), and Cliquing in draw step into multiple threats is too risky. So I'm trying out Stroke.
I'm tying to dodge it. I do have Purges/Alliances/Finks/Zenith/etc. to try to stem the bleeding, so it's not like I'm TOTALLY cold to dredge, but without any real hate like Rest in Peace or Surgical Extraction, winning the match is unlikely, and I'm okay with that.
Thanks for the responses! As for Tragic Lesson it seems rather bad. We're playing X-spells and don't want to bounce lands except maybe to save them from land destruction. So most of the time it is just draw 2, discard 1 which is meh.
Well, I went a lousy 2-3, one win being a no-show in r4. I'll post more later, but lets just say that I played dredge round one, got T2'd by Infect, and lost to some resolved batterskulls out of the GP Kobe esper list.
I'm going to try swapping 2x shadow of doubt mainboard to 2 hallowed moonlight. Been seeing a lot of tokens, coco, reanimation stuff lately. Stops chord too (which is one of the reasons to play shadow...)
I think I won like 1 game in the idk how many I played by blowing up someone's land with shadow. Was funny but just hasnt been worth it. I'd like to just play more spot removal but any time I mana screw I regret not having more cards in my deck with "Draw a card" written on them.
Let me know how the Moonlights feel. I'm personally not a fan of them after trying them out at an Open. Most things it counters are also stopped by Negate. If you're looking for a 2-mana cantrip-spell you could try Remand perhaps? It's not as popular as it used to be but it is very versatile.
Moonlight does a lot of things negate doesn't, specifically having use against aether vial, flickerwisp/restoration angel, token making effects, and reanimation effects, not all of which are noncreature spells being cast.
Let me know how the Moonlights feel. I'm personally not a fan of them after trying them out at an Open. Most things it counters are also stopped by Negate. If you're looking for a 2-mana cantrip-spell you could try Remand perhaps? It's not as popular as it used to be but it is very versatile.
I actually already play 2 remands. I have 18 draw effects + 3 snapcasters. I'm trying really hard to keep my draw density as high as possible.
Edit: Decklist right now for reference. I think I'm going to cut 4th Verdict for another spot removal spell. Trying to figure out how to squeeze the 6th one in.
This is my current build and I am quite happy with it. I needed a lot of exercise to get a hang of the deck but I am slowly getting there
Main board is quite standard except for the 1-of Spell pierce. I like it so far because my friends/meta often play prison decks and it proved to be a surprise answer to an early Blood moon and the like.
Lately, I was thinking about switching Gideon to main for 1 StW because I switch him in quite often (my meta is also quite midrangy).
The Relic in the SB should probably be a Nihil Spellbomb or Rest in Peace.
Why do some of you play Elspeth, Sun's Champion in the SB? Aren't we alread favored enough against midrange decks?
How much grave hate do you play? I have the feeling 3 to 4 pieces are necessary because of the presence of Living End and Dredge.
I played some games against a friend with his new Eldrazi Tron and Grixis Shadow decks. I have the impression does are good matchups. For some reason I find Jund Shadow more difficult because of Lili of the Veil.
Last story for the foreseeable:
Tuesday, round 2 im playing against the veteran RG TitanShift player and I'm on the play.
I have 2 MB Runed Halo so I mull to 5 in order to get one. Land it turn 2, ride to an easy G1.
G2 he does what he does, has 7 mana t4. I'm relaxed because I have Negate Snap and logic Knot in hand, and I'm planning to Esper charm EOT if he does nothing. He casts pact and I think nothing of it, I'll just counter PrimeTime and have 1 less to worry about.
THE MOTHER F****R GRABS A GAEA'S REVENGE WHEN I HAD BOARDED OUT ALL MY SUPREME VERDICTS. Even putting 2 cats in play didn't save me, I couldn't race that guy. /sadDays
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
Dredge and Burn both come readily to mind, mostly because of how awful the first games are. I can't speak for everyone, but I have 3 Surgicals in my board, so Dredge post-board becomes a race of whether I can mulligan/dig to my Surgicals before he establishes board presence. VS Burn, I put in 2 Dispels, 2 Blessed Alliance, a Purge, and a Negate, and I hope for the best.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Burn and dredge are awful G1, G2/3 are much more manageable.
What I consider my worst matchup is big mana - they aren't doing something we can stop (targeted damage, abusing the yard, building a storm count) they are simply trying to cast expensive spells earlier in the game. Very difficult to keep up with them. Tron, Eldrazi decks, valakut are what come to mind here.
Spell-based combo is hit or miss, depending on build. If you have a clock in board, you can typically put them out of the game quickly. Read: snapcaster, v clique, and manlands get you there with minimal counter backup
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Lot of this is good stuff. Main point for me is I didn't really think about how much better Baneslayer is in our brave new Fatal Push world. Only thing I can really criticize is nowadays I don't think Baneslayer can block Goyf either--those things get massive now. I think I'll try out a pair.
About MUs I think the bant spirit decks are obnoxious to play against. Cavern of Souls plus Spell Queller is a thing.
Mono G tron is the only big mana deck that is super hard to beat imo.
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Mystic Gate
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
2x Secure the Wastes
Removal (11)
4x Path to Exile
2x Fatal Push
1x Blessed Alliance
4x Supreme Verdict
Counters (8)
3x Logic Knot
1x Negate
4x Cryptic Command
Draw (13)
4x Think Twice
4x Esper Charm
2x Sphinx's Revelation
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Dispel
2x Runed Halo
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Negate
2x Celestial Purge
3x Kitchen Finks
1x White Sun's Zenith
So, card choices:
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I think I won like 1 game in the idk how many I played by blowing up someone's land with shadow. Was funny but just hasnt been worth it. I'd like to just play more spot removal but any time I mana screw I regret not having more cards in my deck with "Draw a card" written on them.
I actually already play 2 remands. I have 18 draw effects + 3 snapcasters. I'm trying really hard to keep my draw density as high as possible.
Edit: Decklist right now for reference. I think I'm going to cut 4th Verdict for another spot removal spell. Trying to figure out how to squeeze the 6th one in.
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mystic Gate
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Plains
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
4 Supreme Verdict
Permission
1 Mana Leak
1 Negate
2 Logic Knot
2 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
Card Draws
4 Think Twice
4 Esper Charm
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Hallowed Moonlight
Win condition
1 Secure the Wastes
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Nihil Spellbomb
DOUBLE EDIT: HOLY ***** HALLOWED MOONLIGHT IS ******* BRUTAL VS LIVING END. That is all.
Main board is quite standard except for the 1-of Spell pierce. I like it so far because my friends/meta often play prison decks and it proved to be a surprise answer to an early Blood moon and the like.
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Plains
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
3 Supreme Verdict
Counters (9)
1 Spell Pierce
2 Negate
2 Logic Knot
4 Cryptic Command
Card Advantage (10)
4 Think Twice
4 Esper Charm
2 Sphinx's Revelation
Win condition (2)
2 Secure the Wastes
Swiss-Army Knife (4)
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Gideon Jura
2 Thoughtseize
2 Runed Halo
Lately, I was thinking about switching Gideon to main for 1 StW because I switch him in quite often (my meta is also quite midrangy).
The Relic in the SB should probably be a Nihil Spellbomb or Rest in Peace.
Why do some of you play Elspeth, Sun's Champion in the SB? Aren't we alread favored enough against midrange decks?
How much grave hate do you play? I have the feeling 3 to 4 pieces are necessary because of the presence of Living End and Dredge.
I played some games against a friend with his new Eldrazi Tron and Grixis Shadow decks. I have the impression does are good matchups. For some reason I find Jund Shadow more difficult because of Lili of the Veil.