a) I always try to fit a double answer for Thrun and similar between my main and side, being able to face them even if I don't expect it from my opponent. I don't mean fringe cards like Blessed Alliance or Runed Halo, but something that just solves the issue (mostly, Wrath of God and Elspeth *6). Now, let's say that I don't have space to fit both of them in my sideboard. Would it be wrong to make a split 2-1 between Verdict & Wrath in the maindeck, with a second Wrath in the board? It also seems to diversify threats against Surgical Extraction, Stab the Mind, Meddling Mage and similar. I'm quite fond of the third Verdict, because the "can't be countered" clause is sometimes very relevant, but having that many spot removals + snappies it doesn't seems a bad idea, considering how Wrath/Verdict are at their best against things like Abzan Company, Elves, Affinity, Junk... so, putting aside Grixis Delver (against whom we already have a pretty decent mu) it could be the right switch?
If you don't see Merfolk or Grixis Delver/Shadow a whole lot, then yeah -- go for the split. In those matchups, the uncounterability matters a lot. Against Merfolk, you really need both Wraths and removal, and against Grixis Shadow, you want something that simply can't be fought over (plus, if they're on something like Pia and Kiran Nalaar -- most aren't -- then there's even more call for the uncounterable Wrath). In fact, you prolly side Wrath of God out against Grixis.
b) I ask that again: against Bant Company, is it correct to side out Cryptics for Thoughtseize, given that they will have a full set of Spell Queller plus 3-4 additional counters like Unified Will? Cryptic seems SO bad, here.
Thoughtseize doesn't seem much better tho, since they can cast most anything important in response (during your turn, which is when they want to cast those things anyways). I'd keep 1-2 Cryptics in and side the others out, but I'm not sure Thoughtseize is the best card to replace them.
The more i think about it, the more I want a Dromar's Charm reprint. We don't really need any new counterspell. We would benefit more from a maindeckable modal spell which isn't dead against any decks.
Dromar's Charm is something either Amalek or SES has been lobbying for for a while, and I think you are all right. That would be a fantastic Swiss Army knife for our deck. Unfortunately the name makes it unlikely to see reprint, but maybe a functional? Of course, Maro despises non-tempo blue decks, so probably not.
The more i think about it, the more I want a Dromar's Charm reprint. We don't really need any new counterspell. We would benefit more from a maindeckable modal spell which isn't dead against any decks.
I often play against this guy that is running a counterburn deck. The combination of Young pyromancers, Swiftspears, snapcasters, bolts, gutshots, surgical extractions and a full playset of dispels is annoying. I must say that my pilot skills as well as my deck are still developing and therefore I'm asking you guys for help. Playing cryptics against counterburn is unwise, so I took those out and replaced them with dispels and negates. Furthermore I'm playing Runed Halo and Timely Reinforcements when facing counterburn. I'm working on getting a second Snappie and 2 more celestials, but for now I hope some of you could enlighten me a bit.
A deck like that is going to be difficult for us to beat.
That being said, leyline of sanctity will likely do you a lot of good.
Engineered explosives tends to be good in that type of matchup as well, cleaning up 0-1-2 drops for a small amount of mana. Its easy to defend, while not being too slow.
Otherwise, timely is probably decent, as you mentioned.
Baneslayer also tends to be very strong in that type of matchup, if you can live long enough.
Assuming its just U/R, they'll have few ways to actually deal with it, and they'll likely have counterspells like snare, dispel, pierce, and negate, all of which miss the angel.
Forcing them to put two or more burn spells into it is alright as a worst case, as well.
Am I missing something on Dromar's Charm? Doesn't Blessed Alliance have virtually the same life gain effect and a superior/versatile creature kill effect at a much more efficient mana cost and for just 1 more mana, you get both? I guess the counter mode on charm is ok, but is a pretty steep cost for a 1 for 1 counterspell and it's not like we're lacking countermagic imo. I get that it's going to be "less dead" than BA in some match ups, but it just seems a bit underpowered overall to me for it's asking price.
3x Cryptic Command - Turns 4-late game, about the same level as L.Knot but overall more powerful/versatile card.
Added the 3rd Tithe since 2 has been pretty good in testing. An opening hand with Tithe has me feeling safe. Turn 1 Tithe > Turn 2 Logic Knot on the draw is pretty backbreaking against decks curving out, especially aggro.
3 Knots I think is where it's at imo. Card is always an overperformer, acting like a Tithe on turn 2 with a fetch in the yard, and acting as Counterspell from turn 3 onwards. Not even that bad against grave hate since you can mana sink it.
3 Cryptic - Played 4 copies but always sided the 4th one out so many time. 3 copies sits better with me and I rarely get those dreaded 2+ Cryptic openers any more. I've tried 2 copies but instantly regretted it, settling on 3. That Sleep mode is the silent performer for mine.
Om siding out cards - Looks like I might be the only one who never sides out Cryptic Command. Or for that matter, I never side out a specific set of cards. And those cards I never side out are any of my card draw cards. Yes Cryptic is a clunky 4 mana cantrip, but the way I see it, the deck works properly because of all the draw spells, and siding out any of the card draw spells just seems counter-intuitive to the deck's game plan imo. I've sided out Cryptics in the past against Delver decks to keep more mana efficient, but what I found was that my removal spells were efficient enough to stay on their wavelength, but when it came to the late game once I stabilised, I found sometimes I failed to pull ahead since I didn't have that extra 2 for 1 since I sided out my Cryptics and the way Delver decks are built these days, they can grind 2 for 1's with the best of them.
Went 3-1 in a ~20 people modern event last Wednesday.
I played the list that I posted recently.
Match 1 against UR Storm: 2-0
Remove his cost reducing creatures and keep counters (or bluffs) up.
SB: Board wipes out, grave hate in. I learned to keep in spot removal and added even Engineered Explosives from the SB in case he casts Empty the Warrens. Surgical Extraction on Past in Flames was brutal for him.
Would you use the discard on Esper Charm against Storm on their draw? I tried it and he was able to cast a couple of instants, then found and cast a Gifts Ungiven. Didn't change the course of the game much, but I got scared a bit.
Match 2 against Jeskai Geist: 0-2
The opponent is an experienced player and the organizer of the event. I had a couple of misplays and in G1 I was also a bit land screwed. G2 he played Blood Moon and I couldn't recover.
I think I boarded super badly . Should I take all Cryptic Command? How good is Blessed Alliance?
Match 3 against Lantern: 2-1
We are quite annoying for Lantern because we have so much card draw and many answers. G1 he was able to deny my mana and I couldn't prevent him from playing his mill artifacts. To conserve time I conceded even though I still had a tiny chance to win. G2 and G3 were much better since I boarded out all my creature removal (9 cards). Therefore, most of my cards were threatening in some way to him and I was able to stop him from playing to many lock elements. G2 I played Snapcaster Mage as ambush viper and prevented him from playing bridge. G3 I was able to extract his Lantern of Insight in response to academy activation
Match 4 against Living End: 2-0
He stumbled G1 so I was able to play enough lands to keep multiple counters up when he was ready to cascade.
G2: Did I mention that I love Surgical Extraction as sideboard card? First, I extracted his Fulminator Mage, then his Living End.
A small note: In game 1 I played a Snappy as ambush viper to avoid discarding to 7 while he had a suspended Living End on 3. I should have discarded it in order to let it reanimate with Living End (I had a Supreme and removal in hand to deal with his creatures). It could potentially have provided some value.
I love the deck! Super fun because it's so interactive. I was very tired after 4 matches though because you need to be super focused all the time.
Looking forward to the next tournament
Match 2 against Jeskai Geist: 0-2
The opponent is an experienced player and the organizer of the event. I had a couple of misplays and in G1 I was also a bit land screwed. G2 he played Blood Moon and I couldn't recover.
I think I boarded super badly Weird . Should I take all Cryptic Command? How good is Blessed Alliance?
Cryptic Command is a super-nuisance against a counter-burn deck which lives on Dispel/Leak/Negate/Knot/Snare. Blessed Alliance is very good, because it answers both Geist and the multiple burn spells in their deck.
Yes, that was my feeling after the match. BA against Geist requires me to cast it in response to the angel token trigger, right? If I'd cast it later he could sac the angel token?!
Oh ya cuz I was questioning that... I'm running 2 Serum Visions, 3 Logic Knot, and 3 Push. I might cut a Serum for a land, and then the remaining Serum for a Clique or a Quicken to get some cheeky instant-speed sweepers.
BloodRabbit as for your question about splitting the sweepers in the main (2 Verdict, 1 Wrath) I think it is a good idea. Not sure if you play online but I been seeing a fair bit of Elves with Coco/Chord on Mtgo lately and it's very easy for them to regen their lords. Consume the Meek anti-regeneration clause saved my ass so many times in response to their EOT Coco and Ezuri cannot get past it. Worth a testing session or 2 me thinks.
Also, is the new Wafo decks with snap as the only win condition legit? Been thinking of doing something similar with my teachings deck with a near infinite supply of answers to recycle, something like this -
Curve is much lower now. Only 12 cards at 3+ mana and will hopefully give me smoother starting hands. Because no White Sun's Zenith or Secure the Wastes, Bolt and K-Command work as both win condition and removal. Seeing Wafo beat Shok's Mono U Tron with only snaps + manlands as the win conditions gives me a little hope something like this may be able to work alright.
I play one in the board as a 5th sweeper because my meta makes sweepers good. That being said, I'd cut it if my meta wasn't making sweepers good because all the random things that regenerate/have indestructible get hit by blessed alliance and so the only deck where I really want actual wrath is against elves. I'm OK with our out to elves being to tap/draw them, then untap and wrath away their board when they've only got a couple lands. But again, I also have baneslayer angel x2 in the board, so I don't need to worry about the late game, I just need one or two early speedbumps for them. After that, a BSA resolves and they can never win.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
I would personally swap the halos and leylines in the board. I tend to the belief that leyline is just a stronger game 1 play.
I have a cautionary tale of morality. I played burn tonight at modern FNM. I played a total of five GAMES before I 0-2 dropped, which I haven't done in years. In 4/5 of those games my opponent turn two thought knot seer, turn three thought knot seer. Esper charm is a jealous mistress.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Any last piece of advice ? Otherwise, wish me luck and thank you all for the great help found on this thread.
Luck has been wished. Personally, I'd cut a Ghost Quarter (especially with mainboard Halos) for a Colonnade. Hell, I'd cut the Tar Pit for a Colonnade too, if only for WW reasons. Also, I think 1 Thoughtseize 2 Clique is better.
If you don't see Merfolk or Grixis Delver/Shadow a whole lot, then yeah -- go for the split. In those matchups, the uncounterability matters a lot. Against Merfolk, you really need both Wraths and removal, and against Grixis Shadow, you want something that simply can't be fought over (plus, if they're on something like Pia and Kiran Nalaar -- most aren't -- then there's even more call for the uncounterable Wrath). In fact, you prolly side Wrath of God out against Grixis.
Thoughtseize doesn't seem much better tho, since they can cast most anything important in response (during your turn, which is when they want to cast those things anyways). I'd keep 1-2 Cryptics in and side the others out, but I'm not sure Thoughtseize is the best card to replace them.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Dromar's Charm is something either Amalek or SES has been lobbying for for a while, and I think you are all right. That would be a fantastic Swiss Army knife for our deck. Unfortunately the name makes it unlikely to see reprint, but maybe a functional? Of course, Maro despises non-tempo blue decks, so probably not.
Splinter Twin?
On another note. Clocked my PB fastest kill time yesterday with esper teachings splash red deck. On the draw. Turn 5. Opponent 20 life down to -3. Starting hand Hallowed Fountain, Mana Confluence, Snapcaster Mage, Snapcaster Mage, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt. Subsequent draws Steam Vents, Kolaghan's Command, Logic Knot, Island. Turn 5 goldfish, don't think I could do it any faster than that... good to know for when I'm in the party mood
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
That being said, leyline of sanctity will likely do you a lot of good.
Engineered explosives tends to be good in that type of matchup as well, cleaning up 0-1-2 drops for a small amount of mana. Its easy to defend, while not being too slow.
Otherwise, timely is probably decent, as you mentioned.
Baneslayer also tends to be very strong in that type of matchup, if you can live long enough.
Assuming its just U/R, they'll have few ways to actually deal with it, and they'll likely have counterspells like snare, dispel, pierce, and negate, all of which miss the angel.
Forcing them to put two or more burn spells into it is alright as a worst case, as well.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Been testing this counter package atm.
3x Mana Tithe - Turns 1-4 insurance on the draw
3x Logic Knot - Turns 2-late game, bestest, most efficient counter imo
3x Cryptic Command - Turns 4-late game, about the same level as L.Knot but overall more powerful/versatile card.
Added the 3rd Tithe since 2 has been pretty good in testing. An opening hand with Tithe has me feeling safe. Turn 1 Tithe > Turn 2 Logic Knot on the draw is pretty backbreaking against decks curving out, especially aggro.
3 Knots I think is where it's at imo. Card is always an overperformer, acting like a Tithe on turn 2 with a fetch in the yard, and acting as Counterspell from turn 3 onwards. Not even that bad against grave hate since you can mana sink it.
3 Cryptic - Played 4 copies but always sided the 4th one out so many time. 3 copies sits better with me and I rarely get those dreaded 2+ Cryptic openers any more. I've tried 2 copies but instantly regretted it, settling on 3. That Sleep mode is the silent performer for mine.
Om siding out cards - Looks like I might be the only one who never sides out Cryptic Command. Or for that matter, I never side out a specific set of cards. And those cards I never side out are any of my card draw cards. Yes Cryptic is a clunky 4 mana cantrip, but the way I see it, the deck works properly because of all the draw spells, and siding out any of the card draw spells just seems counter-intuitive to the deck's game plan imo. I've sided out Cryptics in the past against Delver decks to keep more mana efficient, but what I found was that my removal spells were efficient enough to stay on their wavelength, but when it came to the late game once I stabilised, I found sometimes I failed to pull ahead since I didn't have that extra 2 for 1 since I sided out my Cryptics and the way Delver decks are built these days, they can grind 2 for 1's with the best of them.
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
I played the list that I posted recently.
Match 1 against UR Storm: 2-0
Remove his cost reducing creatures and keep counters (or bluffs) up.
SB: Board wipes out, grave hate in. I learned to keep in spot removal and added even Engineered Explosives from the SB in case he casts Empty the Warrens.
Surgical Extraction on Past in Flames was brutal for him.
Would you use the discard on Esper Charm against Storm on their draw? I tried it and he was able to cast a couple of instants, then found and cast a Gifts Ungiven. Didn't change the course of the game much, but I got scared a bit.
Match 2 against Jeskai Geist: 0-2
The opponent is an experienced player and the organizer of the event. I had a couple of misplays and in G1 I was also a bit land screwed. G2 he played Blood Moon and I couldn't recover.
I think I boarded super badly
Match 3 against Lantern: 2-1
We are quite annoying for Lantern because we have so much card draw and many answers. G1 he was able to deny my mana and I couldn't prevent him from playing his mill artifacts. To conserve time I conceded even though I still had a tiny chance to win. G2 and G3 were much better since I boarded out all my creature removal (9 cards). Therefore, most of my cards were threatening in some way to him and I was able to stop him from playing to many lock elements. G2 I played Snapcaster Mage as ambush viper and prevented him from playing bridge. G3 I was able to extract his Lantern of Insight in response to academy activation
Match 4 against Living End: 2-0
He stumbled G1 so I was able to play enough lands to keep multiple counters up when he was ready to cascade.
G2: Did I mention that I love Surgical Extraction as sideboard card? First, I extracted his Fulminator Mage, then his Living End.
A small note: In game 1 I played a Snappy as ambush viper to avoid discarding to 7 while he had a suspended Living End on 3. I should have discarded it in order to let it reanimate with Living End (I had a Supreme and removal in hand to deal with his creatures). It could potentially have provided some value.
I love the deck! Super fun because it's so interactive. I was very tired after 4 matches though because you need to be super focused all the time.
Looking forward to the next tournament
Yes, that was my feeling after the match. BA against Geist requires me to cast it in response to the angel token trigger, right? If I'd cast it later he could sac the angel token?!
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Also, is the new Wafo decks with snap as the only win condition legit? Been thinking of doing something similar with my teachings deck with a near infinite supply of answers to recycle, something like this -
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Instants: 31
2 Mana Tithe
3 Path to Exile
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Blessed Alliance
4 Think Twice
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Esper Charm
2 Mystical Teachings
2 Cryptic Command
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Consume the Meek
2 Logic Knot
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Voidmage Husher
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Commandeer
1 Extirpate
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Notion Thief
1 Gather Specimens
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Wear // Tear
Curve is much lower now. Only 12 cards at 3+ mana and will hopefully give me smoother starting hands. Because no White Sun's Zenith or Secure the Wastes, Bolt and K-Command work as both win condition and removal. Seeing Wafo beat Shok's Mono U Tron with only snaps + manlands as the win conditions gives me a little hope something like this may be able to work alright.
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
I play one in the board as a 5th sweeper because my meta makes sweepers good. That being said, I'd cut it if my meta wasn't making sweepers good because all the random things that regenerate/have indestructible get hit by blessed alliance and so the only deck where I really want actual wrath is against elves. I'm OK with our out to elves being to tap/draw them, then untap and wrath away their board when they've only got a couple lands. But again, I also have baneslayer angel x2 in the board, so I don't need to worry about the late game, I just need one or two early speedbumps for them. After that, a BSA resolves and they can never win.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Here it is:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Mystic Gate
3 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
4 Think Twice
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Negate
3 Logic Knot
4 Esper Charm
4 Cryptic Command
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 White Sun's Zenith
Others (8)
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Runed Halo
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
2 Dispel
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wrath of God
Any last piece of advice ? Otherwise, wish me luck
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
I have a cautionary tale of morality. I played burn tonight at modern FNM. I played a total of five GAMES before I 0-2 dropped, which I haven't done in years. In 4/5 of those games my opponent turn two thought knot seer, turn three thought knot seer. Esper charm is a jealous mistress.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Luck has been wished. Personally, I'd cut a Ghost Quarter (especially with mainboard Halos) for a Colonnade. Hell, I'd cut the Tar Pit for a Colonnade too, if only for WW reasons. Also, I think 1 Thoughtseize 2 Clique is better.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.