So I picked up Esper Control a couple of weeks ago, mostly played Grixis control before, but I need some advice from some more experienced players. I have trouble with the more aggressive match ups.
1. In aggressive match ups like CoCo when you are msotly bricking on card draw how do you try prioritize your answers? I find this happens to me a fair amount and maybe it's just bad luck but I will get over run/run out of answers and just can't draw into a sweeper to reset the board.
2. How do you usually side board for these?
Here is my list, which is based off of an article from Modern Nexus and this Thread.
So I picked up Esper Control a couple of weeks ago, mostly played Grixis control before, but I need some advice from some more experienced players. I have trouble with the more aggressive match ups.
1. In aggressive match ups like CoCo when you are msotly bricking on card draw how do you try prioritize your answers? I find this happens to me a fair amount and maybe it's just bad luck but I will get over run/run out of answers and just can't draw into a sweeper to reset the board.
2. How do you usually side board for these?
Here is my list, which is based off of an article from Modern Nexus and this Thread.
Mine may be an unpopular opinion, but here it is. You have too much draw/filtering and not enough business. Only five MB removal spells at instant speed are just too difficult to find reliably against a deck that you also have to be prepared to counter at instant speed. And 4Serum/TT/ECharm just makes it way too likely to draw into draw without having the mana to keep the chain going. I would max out on Paths, cut the Mana Leaks, as they're better in tempo decks that apply pressure, and drop in a Negate or two. 4 Verdicts is not unheard of either. But ultimately this is not a Grixis deck that plays protect the king. This is a very long-game deck that looks to overwhelm opponents in sheer CA and you can't waste cards on spells that cease to operate late game.
I think as foretold is a million times better than gideon for our deck, but I'm not convinced it really fits here as opposed to another shell.
I think an esper midrange deck, or a U/R/X deck would make more use out of it than we would, but its hard to say.
Does it allow you to cast X spells (for X!= 0), does anyone know?
Does it let you pay flashback costs? Flashback and mana costs aren't the same thing, so I would assume it does not?
I'm not a huge fan of your list there either. I feel that 26 land 0 serum visions build is much better, but even so, the reason you feel like you run out of answers is because you don't have very many.
Ditch the mana leaks, play the fourth path, and add a negate, deprive, knot, snare, something else main.
I don't tend to sideboard much in the birds of paradise matchups. Our mainboard is already quite good against them.
For your current board, if you stick with it, I would be bringing in push and ee, and cutting either cryptics (if they're the lower to the ground coco version) or some of the cheaper counterspells (I cut negates usually) against the bigger chord/evolution variants.
Definitely not a matchup you want to overboard for.
I think as foretold is a million times better than gideon for our deck, but I'm not convinced it really fits here as opposed to another shell.
I think an esper midrange deck, or a U/R/X deck would make more use out of it than we would, but its hard to say.
Does it allow you to cast X spells (for X!= 0), does anyone know?
Does it let you pay flashback costs? Flashback and mana costs aren't the same thing, so I would assume it does not?
I'm not a huge fan of your list there either. I feel that 26 land 0 serum visions build is much better, but even so, the reason you feel like you run out of answers is because you don't have very many.
Ditch the mana leaks, play the fourth path, and add a negate, deprive, knot, snare, something else main.
I don't tend to sideboard much in the birds of paradise matchups. Our mainboard is already quite good against them.
For your current board, if you stick with it, I would be bringing in push and ee, and cutting either cryptics (if they're the lower to the ground coco version) or some of the cheaper counterspells (I cut negates usually) against the bigger chord/evolution variants.
Definitely not a matchup you want to overboard for.
I feel the opposite. As Foretold seems not terrible, but not something the deck is in the market for. It's an Aether Vial-esque variant which costs 3 mana and does nothing the turn you play it (and is a non-bo with Logic Knot, Sphinx's, Secure, delve threats (well not non-bo here, but I'm not excited for casting Tasigur for free on T10)). Whereas, Gideon is pseudo-removal and forces opponents to over-extend into wraths, hoses certain decks, and can be a clock if it is needed. He is very versatile, unlike As Foretold. 3 Mana is cheap enough to come down when you want him to. Gideon makes your wraths and other pieces of removal better and is a self-contained win-condition. That's something I'm in the market for. I'm going to test 2 and go from there.
Similarly, Gideon is perfectly acceptable as a 1-2 of as his + ability plays well whenever, where you really want As Foretold on T3 of the game which means you're going to play at least 3 copies and at that point if you ever draw another (which will happen in our deck), it's terrible. In my experience, once we hit 5 lands the deck doesn't really have trouble playing its spells from the hand. By the time our hand is 3-4+ real cards in hand later in the game the mana reduction effect of Foretold is pretty negligible. Gideon being able to protect himself from Man-lands and Valakut is really nice. Many times, I kill everything, but a man-land gets there.
feel the opposite. As Foretold seems not terrible, but not something the deck is in the market for. It's an Aether Vial-esque variant which costs 3 mana and does nothing the turn you play it (and is a non-bo with Logic Knot, Sphinx's, Secure, delve threats (well not non-bo here, but I'm not excited for casting Tasigur for free on T10)). Whereas, Gideon is pseudo-removal and forces opponents to over-extend into wraths, hoses certain decks, and can be a clock if it is needed. He is very versatile, unlike As Foretold. 3 Mana is cheap enough to come down when you want him to. Gideon makes your wraths and other pieces of removal better and is a self-contained win-condition. That's something I'm in the market for. I'm going to test 2 and go from there.
Similarly, Gideon is perfectly acceptable as a 1-2 of as his + ability plays well whenever, where you really want As Foretold on T3 of the game which means you're going to play at least 3 copies and at that point if you ever draw another (which will happen in our deck), it's terrible. In my experience, once we hit 5 lands the deck doesn't really have trouble playing its spells from the hand. By the time our hand is 3-4+ real cards in hand later in the game the mana reduction effect of Foretold is pretty negligible. Gideon being able to protect himself from Man-lands and Valakut is really nice. Many times, I kill everything, but a man-land gets there.
I think comparing it to Aether Vial is very apt. Functionally, it is the same card for spells, but I think where Aether Vial is for decks that want to come out fast and aggressive, Fate Foretold feels like the opposite and for decks that want to draw the game out and cast more big spells, which is what Esper does. Most of our spells are powerful, but expensive. The advantage an unanswered Fate Foretold gives you in the late game shouldn't be underestimated. But there are two key things holding it back:
1. Still dies to abrupt decay, and other enchantment removal. Playing White, a lot of decks already board in Enchantment Removal for potential Stony Silence/RIP, and this might get hit incidentally, making their counter-sideboarding cards live more often, but also overloading that removal.
2. Not helpful against fast decks. This is probably the biggest reason not to run it, because we're already favored in a long game, and this doesn't shore up any of our weak matchups.
One thing to note, you said it is a non-bo with X-spells, and while you can't use it to actually cast X spells, it actually plays very well with X-spells. It allows you to max out on X while still keeping up countermagic, or even after having to respond to something on their turn. For instance, you can use it to play a Snapcaster to flashback sphinx's to get +2 to your X, or allowing you to Secure for full mana even after you Cryptic a threat on your opponent's turn.
Mine may be an unpopular opinion, but here it is. You have too much draw/filtering and not enough business. Only five MB removal spells at instant speed are just too difficult to find reliably against a deck that you also have to be prepared to counter at instant speed. And 4Serum/TT/ECharm just makes it way too likely to draw into draw without having the mana to keep the chain going. I would max out on Paths, cut the Mana Leaks, as they're better in tempo decks that apply pressure, and drop in a Negate or two. 4 Verdicts is not unheard of either. But ultimately this is not a Grixis deck that plays protect the king. This is a very long-game deck that looks to overwhelm opponents in sheer CA and you can't waste cards on spells that cease to operate late game.
I think as foretold is a million times better than gideon for our deck, but I'm not convinced it really fits here as opposed to another shell.
I think an esper midrange deck, or a U/R/X deck would make more use out of it than we would, but its hard to say.
Does it allow you to cast X spells (for X!= 0), does anyone know?
Does it let you pay flashback costs? Flashback and mana costs aren't the same thing, so I would assume it does not?
I'm not a huge fan of your list there either. I feel that 26 land 0 serum visions build is much better, but even so, the reason you feel like you run out of answers is because you don't have very many.
Ditch the mana leaks, play the fourth path, and add a negate, deprive, knot, snare, something else main.
I don't tend to sideboard much in the birds of paradise matchups. Our mainboard is already quite good against them.
For your current board, if you stick with it, I would be bringing in push and ee, and cutting either cryptics (if they're the lower to the ground coco version) or some of the cheaper counterspells (I cut negates usually) against the bigger chord/evolution variants.
Definitely not a matchup you want to overboard for.
I will absolutely try your suggestions both in regards to the mana leaks and the serum visions. That said you both think that I have too much draw in my deck but my problem is when I don't get any draw spells and then run out of answers because I can't generate any CA. When I get even a few draw spells I don't have near as much trouble in aggressive match ups. I play the serum visions as I like to use the Esper Charms like Mind Rots when I feel I am far enough ahead. It can really just shut down the opponent. I have been reading on other forums of people using them this way with pretty good results but then need the serum visions to make up for it. Either way like I said I will give your suggestions a fair shot.
For side boarding I try to mostly do what you guys said but I don't board out the cryptics as I like to be able to tap them down in a pinch. But I see how lowering the curve significantly would be better and will definitely go that way from now on.
I think as foretold is a million times better than gideon for our deck, but I'm not convinced it really fits here as opposed to another shell.
I think an esper midrange deck, or a U/R/X deck would make more use out of it than we would, but its hard to say.
Does it allow you to cast X spells (for X!= 0), does anyone know?
Does it let you pay flashback costs? Flashback and mana costs aren't the same thing, so I would assume it does not?
Gideon is pseudo-removal and forces opponents to over-extend into wraths, hoses certain decks, and can be a clock if it is needed. He is very versatile, unlike As Foretold. 3 Mana is cheap enough to come down when you want him to. Gideon makes your wraths and other pieces of removal better and is a self-contained win-condition. That's something I'm in the market for. I'm going to test 2 and go from there.
Similarly, Gideon is perfectly acceptable as a 1-2 of as his + ability plays well whenever, where you really want As Foretold on T3 of the game which means you're going to play at least 3 copies and at that point if you ever draw another (which will happen in our deck), it's terrible. In my experience, once we hit 5 lands the deck doesn't really have trouble playing its spells from the hand. By the time our hand is 3-4+ real cards in hand later in the game the mana reduction effect of Foretold is pretty negligible. Gideon being able to protect himself from Man-lands and Valakut is really nice. Many times, I kill everything, but a man-land gets there.
I have to agree, Gideon is solid. The +1 ability let's us be more selective with our removal. He can pin down a goyf or other big dummy and we can point our paths/pushes at Bobs and Displacers. It targets permanents, so it can stop Eidolon triggers, or opposing creature-lands.
And then once we've stabilized, he's a disposable win-condition, like colonnade. We won't care if he gets path'd or whatever because we will likely be far enough ahead by the time were ready to swing.
On top of that, it's an added way to pressure opposing walkers without having to spend Mana. How many times have you had to tap out to colonnade a walker, just to be beat by whatever threat they play next?
Then there's the emblem, which is the worst feature of the Walker in my estimation. But let's be real, if it was any sort of card advantage, or 'true' ultimate this card would be banned in a month.
Mine may be an unpopular opinion, but here it is. You have too much draw/filtering and not enough business. Only five MB removal spells at instant speed are just too difficult to find reliably against a deck that you also have to be prepared to counter at instant speed. And 4Serum/TT/ECharm just makes it way too likely to draw into draw without having the mana to keep the chain going. I would max out on Paths, cut the Mana Leaks, as they're better in tempo decks that apply pressure, and drop in a Negate or two. 4 Verdicts is not unheard of either. But ultimately this is not a Grixis deck that plays protect the king. This is a very long-game deck that looks to overwhelm opponents in sheer CA and you can't waste cards on spells that cease to operate late game.
I think as foretold is a million times better than gideon for our deck, but I'm not convinced it really fits here as opposed to another shell.
I think an esper midrange deck, or a U/R/X deck would make more use out of it than we would, but its hard to say.
Does it allow you to cast X spells (for X!= 0), does anyone know?
Does it let you pay flashback costs? Flashback and mana costs aren't the same thing, so I would assume it does not?
I'm not a huge fan of your list there either. I feel that 26 land 0 serum visions build is much better, but even so, the reason you feel like you run out of answers is because you don't have very many.
Ditch the mana leaks, play the fourth path, and add a negate, deprive, knot, snare, something else main.
I don't tend to sideboard much in the birds of paradise matchups. Our mainboard is already quite good against them.
For your current board, if you stick with it, I would be bringing in push and ee, and cutting either cryptics (if they're the lower to the ground coco version) or some of the cheaper counterspells (I cut negates usually) against the bigger chord/evolution variants.
Definitely not a matchup you want to overboard for.
I will absolutely try your suggestions both in regards to the mana leaks and the serum visions. That said you both think that I have too much draw in my deck but my problem is when I don't get any draw spells and then run out of answers because I can't generate any CA. When I get even a few draw spells I don't have near as much trouble in aggressive match ups. I play the serum visions as I like to use the Esper Charms like Mind Rots when I feel I am far enough ahead. It can really just shut down the opponent. I have been reading on other forums of people using them this way with pretty good results but then need the serum visions to make up for it. Either way like I said I will give your suggestions a fair shot.
For side boarding I try to mostly do what you guys said but I don't board out the cryptics as I like to be able to tap them down in a pinch. But I see how lowering the curve significantly would be better and will definitely go that way from now on.
Thanks for all the help!
ppkitty
I'm with you on the Mind Rots, but EC is different things based on the matchup and the texture of your hand and the cards you've drawn. That's why it's so powerful. Still, there's nothing I like seeing more than 3 lands, 2 TTs, and a couple interactive spells in my opener. Try holding your ECs a little longer to find the best way to play them each game. Nothing feels worse than blowing one on a draw 2 or Rot and then seeing a Blood Moon slammed down.
But by cutting the Visiond and Leaks, you'll free up space to attack the aggro MUs.
As for the SB suggestions, take my suggestion to cut CC with a grain of salt. It was based on not knowing what changes you would make to the MB.
@New Gideon -- I'm gonna say this now: that card is super good. I'm prolly not gonna play it, but do NOT underrate him -- locking a creature down on a plus is very powerful, as it puts the game further out of reach while making the Gideon more and more of a problem. Eventually, you can just start killing them with Gideon, and I do believe that the emblem has a place too -- in a pinch, you can play him and force them to attack him instead of you. Not to mention that the emblem is sweet with basically any other playable Gideon (Jura and Ally being the main ones that have potential in a control strat). That said, I don't like tapping out on 3 or the fact that new Gideon dies to Abrupt Decay. I could easily see him in a Draw-Go list. Esper Walkers seems like a natural fit too.
An example -- I always liked Jace, Architect of Thought against control/combo opponents because it requires no later investment when it sticks and has some decently usable abilities. This Gideon does the same thing for one less mana. (It DOES literally say "you can't lose the game". Seems good, right? =D)
Edit: Oh wow. I guess New Gideon rolfstomps AdNaus and Storm, since they can't really interact with it. Play him, emblem --> profit. I guess they could have Echoing Truth???
I like the new gideon, but in a tap-out shell or even just UW "big midrange".
What I really like is the new flash-oblivion ring. cast out feels like a very powerful card--it's an instant-speed generic answer, and for better or for worse, cmc 4 is what we have to pay for one of those if we don't want to dump a ton of life into it. The upside of both instant speed AND the ability to cycle it away in dead matchups means I'm definitely buying a couple of foils of it ASAP. FWIW, the last cards I made that call on were blessed alliance and fatal push.
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Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Edit: Oh wow. I guess New Gideon rolfstomps AdNaus and Storm, since they can't really interact with it. Play him, emblem --> profit. I guess they could have Echoing Truth???
Doesn't storm just direct the first few grapeshot triggers at Gideon? I'm not too familiar with storm, so maybe I'm missing something.
I like the new gideon, but in a tap-out shell or even just UW "big midrange".
What I really like is the new flash-oblivion ring. cast out feels like a very powerful card--it's an instant-speed generic answer, and for better or for worse, cmc 4 is what we have to pay for one of those if we don't want to dump a ton of life into it. The upside of both instant speed AND the ability to cycle it away in dead matchups means I'm definitely buying a couple of foils of it ASAP. FWIW, the last cards I made that call on were blessed alliance and fatal push.
I don't think Flash-Ring is playable, to be honest. Is it the best of its kind of effect? Maybe. (Utter End was similar an could be Snapped back). But does that mean it's worth buying into? Honestly, I think not -- 4 mana is still just too much. And to be fair, I also bought foil Blessed Alliances immediately. (I would've gotten Pushes too, but you never told me where you got them from for preorder! Foils were never listed anywhere I looked. )
Firstly, it's very low opportunity-cost. cycling for ONE WHITE MANA means we can basically ditch it for free at virtually any point in the game, and one is the best mana cost for anything we're going to cycle in unfair matchups where holding up mana all the time is important.
Secondly, it's SUPER flexible. anguished unmaking feels so close to playable, because we want the effect very badly, but three life is just too much. utter end is something a lot of us toyed with, but eventually I think we mostly realized that trading it for a 1 or 2 mana spell is not where we wanted to be, even if it did have snapcaster value. detention sphere is the effect we most often look at, and many of us play or have played a detention sphere in the sideboard because having a catchall answer is just really good in many matchups.
I want to compare it to detention sphere and utter end in particular here. If we compare it to utter end, it's the same mana cost, and same speed--4 mana, instant. Straight up, utter end at first blush is better since it's permanent. However, cast out doesn't ever sit dead in our hand. If it's not a matchup where we can profit from trading 4 mana for flexibility, we only actually have to commit one mana to turn it into a better card.
If you compare it to detention sphere, it's almost strictly better. raw cmc aside, cast out is an instant, still deals with planeswalkers, and dodges abrupt decay which is the most significant enchantment removal we see brought in by decks that we *actually* want this effect against. It's not like we play this against affinity, infect, or tron. It's just going to cycle in those matchups most of the time. We want it against random fair decks with expensive planeswalkers that are hard for us to actually get off the board. If you want to sweep tokens, EE is a better tool anyway, and we're strong against tokens because of all the wraths in the first place.
I'm not saying it'll be a 2-of or a 3-of in the mainboard, ever. But I very much see it sneaking in as a 1 of in the mainboard or sideboard of control decks in the future. In particular, for mystical teachings builds. Flexible, tutor target, but not a dead card if drawn at the wrong time.
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Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Is the added ability to go after resolved planeswalkers earlier worth the risk of dropping to three Colonnades to add a Tarpit, turning on opponents' Bolts, KCommands, etc?
With the addition of Push, is 3 Snapcaster now correct? If so, do you cut a higher mana card like Cryptic or a higher variance card like Snare?
I absolutely think that 3 snap is the way to go now with push.
I also think 3 colonnade is the sweet spot as it's not a land you want to be seeing to often in early turns as it's a always a tapped land.
I absolutely think that 3 snap is the way to go now with push.
I also think 3 colonnade is the sweet spot as it's not a land you want to be seeing to often in early turns as it's a always a tapped land.
I can't help but disagree with this. 4 Colonnades have never really been a problem, and they do a lot -- I really don't see a reason to cut one.
3 Snappy seems pretty good, tho I think lists with 3 Snaps probably need to have 4 Path/3 Push.
1. In aggressive match ups like CoCo when you are msotly bricking on card draw how do you try prioritize your answers? I find this happens to me a fair amount and maybe it's just bad luck but I will get over run/run out of answers and just can't draw into a sweeper to reset the board.
2. How do you usually side board for these?
Here is my list, which is based off of an article from Modern Nexus and this Thread.
4 Flooded Strand
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Plains
2 Island
1 Swamp
Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Cryptic Command
4 Esper Charm
2 Fatal Push
4 Serum Visions
2 Logic Knot
3 Path to Exile
2 Mana Leak
2 Secure the Wastes
4 Think Twice
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Grave Titan
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Fatal Push
2 Thoughtseize
2 Lingering Souls
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Negate
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
Mine may be an unpopular opinion, but here it is. You have too much draw/filtering and not enough business. Only five MB removal spells at instant speed are just too difficult to find reliably against a deck that you also have to be prepared to counter at instant speed. And 4Serum/TT/ECharm just makes it way too likely to draw into draw without having the mana to keep the chain going. I would max out on Paths, cut the Mana Leaks, as they're better in tempo decks that apply pressure, and drop in a Negate or two. 4 Verdicts is not unheard of either. But ultimately this is not a Grixis deck that plays protect the king. This is a very long-game deck that looks to overwhelm opponents in sheer CA and you can't waste cards on spells that cease to operate late game.
I think an esper midrange deck, or a U/R/X deck would make more use out of it than we would, but its hard to say.
Does it allow you to cast X spells (for X!= 0), does anyone know?
Does it let you pay flashback costs? Flashback and mana costs aren't the same thing, so I would assume it does not?
I'm not a huge fan of your list there either. I feel that 26 land 0 serum visions build is much better, but even so, the reason you feel like you run out of answers is because you don't have very many.
Ditch the mana leaks, play the fourth path, and add a negate, deprive, knot, snare, something else main.
I don't tend to sideboard much in the birds of paradise matchups. Our mainboard is already quite good against them.
For your current board, if you stick with it, I would be bringing in push and ee, and cutting either cryptics (if they're the lower to the ground coco version) or some of the cheaper counterspells (I cut negates usually) against the bigger chord/evolution variants.
Definitely not a matchup you want to overboard for.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I feel the opposite. As Foretold seems not terrible, but not something the deck is in the market for. It's an Aether Vial-esque variant which costs 3 mana and does nothing the turn you play it (and is a non-bo with Logic Knot, Sphinx's, Secure, delve threats (well not non-bo here, but I'm not excited for casting Tasigur for free on T10)). Whereas, Gideon is pseudo-removal and forces opponents to over-extend into wraths, hoses certain decks, and can be a clock if it is needed. He is very versatile, unlike As Foretold. 3 Mana is cheap enough to come down when you want him to. Gideon makes your wraths and other pieces of removal better and is a self-contained win-condition. That's something I'm in the market for. I'm going to test 2 and go from there.
Similarly, Gideon is perfectly acceptable as a 1-2 of as his + ability plays well whenever, where you really want As Foretold on T3 of the game which means you're going to play at least 3 copies and at that point if you ever draw another (which will happen in our deck), it's terrible. In my experience, once we hit 5 lands the deck doesn't really have trouble playing its spells from the hand. By the time our hand is 3-4+ real cards in hand later in the game the mana reduction effect of Foretold is pretty negligible. Gideon being able to protect himself from Man-lands and Valakut is really nice. Many times, I kill everything, but a man-land gets there.
Just checked: wizards confirmed.
I think comparing it to Aether Vial is very apt. Functionally, it is the same card for spells, but I think where Aether Vial is for decks that want to come out fast and aggressive, Fate Foretold feels like the opposite and for decks that want to draw the game out and cast more big spells, which is what Esper does. Most of our spells are powerful, but expensive. The advantage an unanswered Fate Foretold gives you in the late game shouldn't be underestimated. But there are two key things holding it back:
1. Still dies to abrupt decay, and other enchantment removal. Playing White, a lot of decks already board in Enchantment Removal for potential Stony Silence/RIP, and this might get hit incidentally, making their counter-sideboarding cards live more often, but also overloading that removal.
2. Not helpful against fast decks. This is probably the biggest reason not to run it, because we're already favored in a long game, and this doesn't shore up any of our weak matchups.
One thing to note, you said it is a non-bo with X-spells, and while you can't use it to actually cast X spells, it actually plays very well with X-spells. It allows you to max out on X while still keeping up countermagic, or even after having to respond to something on their turn. For instance, you can use it to play a Snapcaster to flashback sphinx's to get +2 to your X, or allowing you to Secure for full mana even after you Cryptic a threat on your opponent's turn.
I will absolutely try your suggestions both in regards to the mana leaks and the serum visions. That said you both think that I have too much draw in my deck but my problem is when I don't get any draw spells and then run out of answers because I can't generate any CA. When I get even a few draw spells I don't have near as much trouble in aggressive match ups. I play the serum visions as I like to use the Esper Charms like Mind Rots when I feel I am far enough ahead. It can really just shut down the opponent. I have been reading on other forums of people using them this way with pretty good results but then need the serum visions to make up for it. Either way like I said I will give your suggestions a fair shot.
For side boarding I try to mostly do what you guys said but I don't board out the cryptics as I like to be able to tap them down in a pinch. But I see how lowering the curve significantly would be better and will definitely go that way from now on.
Thanks for all the help!
ppkitty
I have to agree, Gideon is solid. The +1 ability let's us be more selective with our removal. He can pin down a goyf or other big dummy and we can point our paths/pushes at Bobs and Displacers. It targets permanents, so it can stop Eidolon triggers, or opposing creature-lands.
And then once we've stabilized, he's a disposable win-condition, like colonnade. We won't care if he gets path'd or whatever because we will likely be far enough ahead by the time were ready to swing.
On top of that, it's an added way to pressure opposing walkers without having to spend Mana. How many times have you had to tap out to colonnade a walker, just to be beat by whatever threat they play next?
Then there's the emblem, which is the worst feature of the Walker in my estimation. But let's be real, if it was any sort of card advantage, or 'true' ultimate this card would be banned in a month.
I'm with you on the Mind Rots, but EC is different things based on the matchup and the texture of your hand and the cards you've drawn. That's why it's so powerful. Still, there's nothing I like seeing more than 3 lands, 2 TTs, and a couple interactive spells in my opener. Try holding your ECs a little longer to find the best way to play them each game. Nothing feels worse than blowing one on a draw 2 or Rot and then seeing a Blood Moon slammed down.
But by cutting the Visiond and Leaks, you'll free up space to attack the aggro MUs.
As for the SB suggestions, take my suggestion to cut CC with a grain of salt. It was based on not knowing what changes you would make to the MB.
An example -- I always liked Jace, Architect of Thought against control/combo opponents because it requires no later investment when it sticks and has some decently usable abilities. This Gideon does the same thing for one less mana. (It DOES literally say "you can't lose the game". Seems good, right? =D)
Edit: Oh wow. I guess New Gideon rolfstomps AdNaus and Storm, since they can't really interact with it. Play him, emblem --> profit. I guess they could have Echoing Truth???
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
What I really like is the new flash-oblivion ring. cast out feels like a very powerful card--it's an instant-speed generic answer, and for better or for worse, cmc 4 is what we have to pay for one of those if we don't want to dump a ton of life into it. The upside of both instant speed AND the ability to cycle it away in dead matchups means I'm definitely buying a couple of foils of it ASAP. FWIW, the last cards I made that call on were blessed alliance and fatal push.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Doesn't storm just direct the first few grapeshot triggers at Gideon? I'm not too familiar with storm, so maybe I'm missing something.
I don't think Flash-Ring is playable, to be honest. Is it the best of its kind of effect? Maybe. (Utter End was similar an could be Snapped back). But does that mean it's worth buying into? Honestly, I think not -- 4 mana is still just too much. And to be fair, I also bought foil Blessed Alliances immediately. (I would've gotten Pushes too, but you never told me where you got them from for preorder! Foils were never listed anywhere I looked.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Firstly, it's very low opportunity-cost. cycling for ONE WHITE MANA means we can basically ditch it for free at virtually any point in the game, and one is the best mana cost for anything we're going to cycle in unfair matchups where holding up mana all the time is important.
Secondly, it's SUPER flexible. anguished unmaking feels so close to playable, because we want the effect very badly, but three life is just too much. utter end is something a lot of us toyed with, but eventually I think we mostly realized that trading it for a 1 or 2 mana spell is not where we wanted to be, even if it did have snapcaster value. detention sphere is the effect we most often look at, and many of us play or have played a detention sphere in the sideboard because having a catchall answer is just really good in many matchups.
I want to compare it to detention sphere and utter end in particular here. If we compare it to utter end, it's the same mana cost, and same speed--4 mana, instant. Straight up, utter end at first blush is better since it's permanent. However, cast out doesn't ever sit dead in our hand. If it's not a matchup where we can profit from trading 4 mana for flexibility, we only actually have to commit one mana to turn it into a better card.
If you compare it to detention sphere, it's almost strictly better. raw cmc aside, cast out is an instant, still deals with planeswalkers, and dodges abrupt decay which is the most significant enchantment removal we see brought in by decks that we *actually* want this effect against. It's not like we play this against affinity, infect, or tron. It's just going to cycle in those matchups most of the time. We want it against random fair decks with expensive planeswalkers that are hard for us to actually get off the board. If you want to sweep tokens, EE is a better tool anyway, and we're strong against tokens because of all the wraths in the first place.
I'm not saying it'll be a 2-of or a 3-of in the mainboard, ever. But I very much see it sneaking in as a 1 of in the mainboard or sideboard of control decks in the future. In particular, for mystical teachings builds. Flexible, tutor target, but not a dead card if drawn at the wrong time.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Is the added ability to go after resolved planeswalkers earlier worth the risk of dropping to three Colonnades to add a Tarpit, turning on opponents' Bolts, KCommands, etc?
With the addition of Push, is 3 Snapcaster now correct? If so, do you cut a higher mana card like Cryptic or a higher variance card like Snare?
My list for reference:
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
2 hallowed fountain
2 watery grave
3 island
1 plains
1 swamp
1 ghost quarter
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
1 godless shrine
1 Mystic Gate
4 path to exile
2 Fatal Push
3 supreme verdict
Permission:
4 cryptic command
3 logic knot
1 Spell Snare
2 Negate
Card Draw:
4 esper charm
4 think twice
2 sphinx's revelation
2 Snapcaster Mage
Other:
1 White Sun's Zenith
2 Leyline
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest In Peace
2 Runed Halo
1 Fatal Push
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Celestial Purge
1 Spell Snare
1 Dispel
1 Wrath of God
1 Elspeth
I also think 3 colonnade is the sweet spot as it's not a land you want to be seeing to often in early turns as it's a always a tapped land.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
I can't help but disagree with this. 4 Colonnades have never really been a problem, and they do a lot -- I really don't see a reason to cut one.
3 Snappy seems pretty good, tho I think lists with 3 Snaps probably need to have 4 Path/3 Push.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.