The god seems pretty bad to me...Too hard to turn on, too much Mana to use. The 4cmc Flash/cycle o-ring is interesting though. Doesn't get hit by much and removal that cycles is sweet against threat-light decks. 4cmc is a lot though. People tried utter end, this feels better than utter end to me.
Utter end wasn't slightly too weak though. Paying 4 mana to kill all of the 1-2 mana threats in modern is only going to get you killed.
Being able to cycle it is neat, but its just way too mana inefficient, not to mention vulnerable to be playable.
One thing I've always been adept at is mana bases. In a deck with Cryptic, SV, Esper Charm & many of you run Runed Halo in the board you should not be running less than 2 Mystic Gates. In addition, the deck has enough sources even on 24 lands to have at least 2 buddy lands enter play untapped 90% of the time (the threshold imho), which are important considering we want every land drop after 2 to come into play untapped. In my 24 land base I have 1 flex spot that I use for Oboro, Palace in the Clouds to make Fatal Push more effective. It helps it's blue and comes enter play untapped as well. Every deck should have at least 8 fetches for Blood Moon and consistency reasons (they're effectively tri-lands). The deck doesn't really need to run more than 4 shocks either which let us take less pain from the mana while keeping up 90%+ consistency, though you do come out to 1 or 2 sources short for 90% untapped B or W (though B is more important on T1 so prioritize it) on T1 (it's something like 80somethings% with 12 sources - 14 is ideal). If you look at Wafo's style of mana he loses at least 5% from being sub-optimal. In a world of Frank Karsten's and Hypergeometric calculators at your fingertips people should have extremely solid mana while minimizing life loss
Utter end wasn't slightly too weak though. Paying 4 mana to kill all of the 1-2 mana threats in modern is only going to get you killed.
Being able to cycle it is neat, but its just way too mana inefficient, not to mention vulnerable to be playable.
Very Mana inefficient indeed. Not too sure about it's vulnerability though. Outside of the Tron match, what hits it other than Maelstrom Pulse and Detention Sphere? I mean, Detention Sphere sees some fringe play with the added vulnerability to Abrupt Decay.
One thing I've always been adept at is mana bases. In a deck with Cryptic, SV, Esper Charm & many of you run Runed Halo in the board you should not be running less than 2 Mystic Gates. In addition, the deck has enough sources even on 24 lands to have at least 2 buddy lands enter play untapped 90% of the time (the threshold imho), which are important considering we want every land drop after 2 to come into play untapped. In my 24 land base I have 1 flex spot that I use for Oboro, Palace in the Clouds to make Fatal Push more effective. It helps it's blue and comes enter play untapped as well. Every deck should have at least 8 fetches for Blood Moon and consistency reasons (they're effectively tri-lands). The deck doesn't really need to run more than 4 shocks either which let us take less pain from the mana while keeping up 90%+ consistency, though you do come out to 1 or 2 sources short for 90% untapped B or W (though B is more important on T1 so prioritize it) on T1 (it's something like 80somethings% with 12 sources - 14 is ideal). If you look at Wafo's style of mana he loses at least 5% from being sub-optimal. In a world of Frank Karsten's and Hypergeometric calculators at your fingertips people should have extremely solid mana while minimizing life loss
Anyone play a agro deck with these colors? I don't know if there is a separate thread for it as this is a more controlling thread but I though I'd ask. I would really like to see a agro or maybe a transitional agro/control versions.... thanks!
I think there's another thread for this (the "Control in its purest form" banner in the primer kinda gives it off). They usually play it with Geist, Lingering souls and Death's Shadow.
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Anguished Unmaking has been over-performing in testing. I have 1 in the side, but am really tempted to put it in the main. It's super flexible and done some narly things like exiling a Daybreak Coronet mid-combat against bogles which then allowed my Clique to chump profitably. I've also been able to exile a Narset Transcendent which is tough to kill normally and AU also adds an extra hard removal spell for match ups like Eldrazi too.
The 3 life loss is real though, but tbh, I don't think playing just 1 copy in the main should really be an issue since it does come in very handy especially to deal with stuff like Karn when you are behind.
Being at 3 mana is a big thing too. I don't think this kind of effect is really that playable at 4 mana and even though the life loss is slightly annoying, I haven't yet run into a scenario where it was to the point of uncastable.
What does everyone think about the new Gideon? I think he could have potential, probably in the sideboard. The fact that he costs three is really nice. For reference:
Gideon of the Trials 1WW
+1: Until your next turn, prevent all damage target permanent would do.
0: Until end of turn ~ becomes a 4/4 creature with indestructible. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn.
0: You get an emblem with "As long as you control a Gideon planeswalker, you can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game."
Starting loyalty: 3
What does everyone think about the new Gideon? I think he could have potential, probably in the sideboard. The fact that he costs three is really nice. For reference:
Gideon of the Trials 1WW
+1: Until your next turn, prevent all damage target permanent would do.
0: Until end of turn ~ becomes a 4/4 creature with indestructible. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn.
0: You get an emblem with "As long as you control a Gideon planeswalker, you can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game."
Starting loyalty: 3
I think he can be really great but probably needs a more "midrangey" shell. The fact that you can remove a threat T2 (EoT) and then T3 slam him to either protect himself and you from a remaining creature or simply tick up to be out of bolt range is insane. However that leaves you with shields down for the next turn, something we rarely want to do. I think if he is combined with discard and a midrange plan he can be insane
Odd question... If you had to play a list without Snapcasters, what would it be? Friend might be coming with me to Modern on Friday, and he's gonna borrow UR Kiki from me (the deck pretty much NEEDS all 4 Snaps, and I feel like Esper doesn't actually NEED them -- yes, I know they help and 1-mana removal and blah).
I feel like the list starts with 4 Verdict minimum. Not sure bout extra wincons/counterspells tho.
Or something to that effect.
Cutting some push for some alliance, if you wanted. Basically just playing a bit more removal instead of the snaps.
If you wanted the third snare, thats also an option.
You don't really want to add more negates or logic knots, and spell snare isn't the best right now.
You could also play serum visions or anticipate/telling time/peer through depths, but those cards tend to be better with more snapcasters, so can't say that sounds great.
You could also consider playing some sideboard cards main (halo, leyline, threats, unmaking, ee, etc), if you knew what you wanted to beat.
I honestly am not sure there's a viable replacement, but in terms of the closest thing, you're looking at a Gearhulk which you can use to flashback a Rev or something.
You're gonna have a bad time flashing back Rev off Gearhulk (X=0 since you don't pay mana costs)
How would y'all feel about a 3rd Rev instead of one of the Snaps?
Also, as a side note for clarity -- I don't advocate cutting Snaps from Esper. I might have to do it just for this event. =D
I've seen plenty of lists and people advocating for just 2 snaps, so those lists would be a good starting point. I don't know if there's really a good replacement, since Snapcaster isn't just about CA, but he represents the best card you've already played this game in the matchup which is a ton of flexibility. Any other card will just be too narrow. Gearhulk will fill the role against big decks where you want to rebuy your cryptics, but extra pushes are going to be better against anything creature based.
I definitely wouldn't go for any extra copies of Rev though, it's quite rare that Rev is the best card for any given matchup. I think 1 Gearhulk, 1 extra push, then maybe an extra countermagic would be good. Perhaps you could have some number of Runed Halo's to provide that wide-reaching flexibility that Snap gives you across multiple matchups.
Speaking of 3 mana permanents that do nothing the turn you play it...
Unlike Gideon though, if we can afford to take a turn off to play this, it can really start getting us ahead on mana and play more of our expensive spells. It takes only 2 turns to have it pay itself back manawise, and the fact that it can pay for flashback costs makes it quite attractive to use for flashing back Think Twices. It would also let us more aggressively activate Colonnades when we turn the corner and still leave up Cryptic before we hit 9 lands.
Still, I think it just barely doesn't make the cut in the 75 because I can't think of a matchup where I would actively want to play one of these on T3. Thoughts?
Or something to that effect.
Cutting some push for some alliance, if you wanted. Basically just playing a bit more removal instead of the snaps.
If you wanted the third snare, thats also an option.
You don't really want to add more negates or logic knots, and spell snare isn't the best right now.
You could also play serum visions or anticipate/telling time/peer through depths, but those cards tend to be better with more snapcasters, so can't say that sounds great.
You could also consider playing some sideboard cards main (halo, leyline, threats, unmaking, ee, etc), if you knew what you wanted to beat.
Wow, that list definitely looks pretty good. I'd prolly go -1x Push --> +1x Blessed Alliance, as you mentioned, and then call it a day. Maybe make room for another instant-speed draw spell of some sort (I have wanted to play a mono-Sphinx's-Rev deck again for a long time, since Return to Ravnica Standard. Having only 2 just doesn't cut it ). Not so confident that Spell Snare is what I want in the place of Snappy tho (considering I already play the list you mentioned -2x Push, -2x Snare --> +2x Snappy, +1x Blessed Alliance, +1x Elspeth).
Also, since nobod's asked about it, I just want to mention this: I like the 1x Deprive over a Negate right now, I think. More testing, but I think I like 3x Knot/1x Deprive/1x Negate as the split.
The god seems pretty bad to me...Too hard to turn on, too much Mana to use. The 4cmc Flash/cycle o-ring is interesting though. Doesn't get hit by much and removal that cycles is sweet against threat-light decks. 4cmc is a lot though. People tried utter end, this feels better than utter end to me.
Being able to cycle it is neat, but its just way too mana inefficient, not to mention vulnerable to be playable.
What's your manabase look like?
Very Mana inefficient indeed. Not too sure about it's vulnerability though. Outside of the Tron match, what hits it other than Maelstrom Pulse and Detention Sphere? I mean, Detention Sphere sees some fringe play with the added vulnerability to Abrupt Decay.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
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Agreed. With how many random Planeswalker decks I've been running into on modo, I'm thinking about giving up my last MB Snare for an Unmaking.
As of now:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Mystic Gate
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
When the cycling lands are printed:
+1 Irrigated Farmland
+1 Fetid Pools
-1 Creeping Tar Pit
-1 MB Card (Going from 24 to 25 lands)
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
The 3 life loss is real though, but tbh, I don't think playing just 1 copy in the main should really be an issue since it does come in very handy especially to deal with stuff like Karn when you are behind.
Being at 3 mana is a big thing too. I don't think this kind of effect is really that playable at 4 mana and even though the life loss is slightly annoying, I haven't yet run into a scenario where it was to the point of uncastable.
Gideon of the Trials 1WW
+1: Until your next turn, prevent all damage target permanent would do.
0: Until end of turn ~ becomes a 4/4 creature with indestructible. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn.
0: You get an emblem with "As long as you control a Gideon planeswalker, you can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game."
Starting loyalty: 3
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
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Modern
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Kiki Chord RWG
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
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I cant imagine we want him
I feel like the list starts with 4 Verdict minimum. Not sure bout extra wincons/counterspells tho.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
26 lands (the normal whatever)
4 supreme verdict
4 path to exile
4 fatal push
2 spell snare
2 negate
3 logic knot
4 cryptic command
4 think twice
4 esper charm
2 sphinx's revelation
1 white sun's zenith
Or something to that effect.
Cutting some push for some alliance, if you wanted. Basically just playing a bit more removal instead of the snaps.
If you wanted the third snare, thats also an option.
You don't really want to add more negates or logic knots, and spell snare isn't the best right now.
You could also play serum visions or anticipate/telling time/peer through depths, but those cards tend to be better with more snapcasters, so can't say that sounds great.
You could also consider playing some sideboard cards main (halo, leyline, threats, unmaking, ee, etc), if you knew what you wanted to beat.
Also, as a side note for clarity -- I don't advocate cutting Snaps from Esper. I might have to do it just for this event. =D
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
You're gonna have a bad time flashing back Rev off Gearhulk (X=0 since you don't pay mana costs)
I've seen plenty of lists and people advocating for just 2 snaps, so those lists would be a good starting point. I don't know if there's really a good replacement, since Snapcaster isn't just about CA, but he represents the best card you've already played this game in the matchup which is a ton of flexibility. Any other card will just be too narrow. Gearhulk will fill the role against big decks where you want to rebuy your cryptics, but extra pushes are going to be better against anything creature based.
I definitely wouldn't go for any extra copies of Rev though, it's quite rare that Rev is the best card for any given matchup. I think 1 Gearhulk, 1 extra push, then maybe an extra countermagic would be good. Perhaps you could have some number of Runed Halo's to provide that wide-reaching flexibility that Snap gives you across multiple matchups.
Or Rattlechains if you just need an Ambush Viper
Unlike Gideon though, if we can afford to take a turn off to play this, it can really start getting us ahead on mana and play more of our expensive spells. It takes only 2 turns to have it pay itself back manawise, and the fact that it can pay for flashback costs makes it quite attractive to use for flashing back Think Twices. It would also let us more aggressively activate Colonnades when we turn the corner and still leave up Cryptic before we hit 9 lands.
Still, I think it just barely doesn't make the cut in the 75 because I can't think of a matchup where I would actively want to play one of these on T3. Thoughts?
Wow, that list definitely looks pretty good. I'd prolly go -1x Push --> +1x Blessed Alliance, as you mentioned, and then call it a day. Maybe make room for another instant-speed draw spell of some sort (I have wanted to play a mono-Sphinx's-Rev deck again for a long time, since Return to Ravnica Standard. Having only 2 just doesn't cut it
Also, since nobod's asked about it, I just want to mention this: I like the 1x Deprive over a Negate right now, I think. More testing, but I think I like 3x Knot/1x Deprive/1x Negate as the split.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.