I've played it before. Its fine. Its not better than logic knot, and its not better than spell snare at doing what spell snare does.
There are worse cards to play, but I prefer negate as a tertiary counterspell, and I've been pretty down on mainboard negates for a long time.
Agreed. Condescend isn't bad, but there's better options. It either competes with Snare (different purposes, not an equal replacement) or it competes with Knot/Negate (both of which I think are better than Condescend).
As for the others, I've never been a fan of Teferi and Knight-Errant. Teferi comes in too late or at too much mana against most decks you'd bring him in against(combo, aggro-combo, and Control I think). And weak to Blood Moon, but w/e. Knight Errant I believe was there as a fast wincon against Tron/combo, but it's is pretty poor at 4 mana, so I think that Geist would be better for its purpose (if at all, because both of those things come out a little too late). If it's there for grinding, it's again not the best with making only a single 1/1 token a turn (and getting blown out by removal if you jump the token). In the second case, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar/Gideon Jura/Big Elspeth are all just better I think.
Haven't finalized my post-Push list yet and looking for input.
Manabase
Currently running Amalek's. Probably need more black sources, so cut a Plains, add a Godless Shrine, cut a Colonnade, add a Catacomb, cut a Fountain, add a Mystic Gate?
Main
Typical setup with 2 Pushes, 3 Verdicts, 2 Snares, 1 Negate, 2 Leylines, 3 Knots.
SB
2 Stonies, 2 Halos, Wrath, Purge, Dispel, Negate, 2 RiP, 2 BA, big Elspeth, X, X
Any input is welcome. I used to run NOSB in the board, but don't know how necessary it is anymore, and I'm stuck on what to do in the final SB slots (more Stonies, RiPs? EEs? Cliques?). Also not sure how to optimize the base. And if we're going heavier on Black, should Negate be Squall?
I understand that this has probably been discussed a lot already, and I'll concede that I searched and read a few of the discussions on it, but how does Ashiok stand in the current meta? Against 'fair' decks and midrange there is a bit of power there, but is Ashiok better suited to a deck that is running a suite of Planeswalkers and forgoing the instant speed power that we are looking for here in Esper Control?
I'm even considering making the Condemn a THIRD Blessed Alliance, since the card is so good right now -- it totally hoses Eldrazi (yes, Bant too) and does a similar thing versus basically everything else while strengthening the Burn matchup (and Bogles, I guess?) while even giving outs to Thrun. I don't think it's necessary at this point, and I'm totally fine with Condemn as pseudo-Path #5 since there are still decks where the not-graveyard clause is very relevant. I suppose I could test a 1-of Fatal Push there, but with Edrazi so prevalent, idk about that.
As for the counters, sometimes cruising on 3 Snares and no mb Negate feels great. And then you play against Tron or simply die after topdecking 2 Snares in a row. So yeah, even though it's amazing versus BGx, Storm, Affinity, and Burn, it's just too much of a liability. In fact, I've lost to all of those decks (except Storm) because of a dead Snare in hand on multiple occasions ranging from years ago to recent times -- they're supposed to be good matchups! It's a shame, because when Snare is good it's REALLY good. I just refuse to die with one in hand again.
So, the sideboard is in shambles now, as my matchups honestly have been feeling suddenly better without Push. I'm only settled on those cards above, and the rest is super ambiguous to me. I want a cheap flash creature for combo/Tron, but I'm not a big fan of Clique. That said, there's practically no other real option. I've been super tempted to try Venser, Shaper Savant since he interacts on the stack too, but I'm wary of the 4 mana cost. It may be good enough tho, and I've literally always wanted to play him in Modern. You can even use it to bounce lands, which is the plan against Tron if you get off the Surg+Quarter plan. Seems worth a thought.
As far as other cards, I've been toying with a Ghost Quarter and 3rd Surg, some Timely Reinforcements, maybe a Disenchant, a pair of Baneslayers (tho 2 never feels like enough), other random crap. Hell, even a Ceremonius Rejection is looking good because it's amazing against Tron, Lantern, any flavor of Eldrazi, and Affinity. That's a huge portion of the metagame!
I understand that this has probably been discussed a lot already, and I'll concede that I searched and read a few of the discussions on it, but how does Ashiok stand in the current meta? Against 'fair' decks and midrange there is a bit of power there, but is Ashiok better suited to a deck that is running a suite of Planeswalkers and forgoing the instant speed power that we are looking for here in Esper Control?
I think the consensus on Ashiok is that it just doesn't do enough against enough of the meta to be worth it. There are better options for our 75.
Why do every Esper pilot play think twice while every grixis control player's on serum vision instead? Both decks play quite the same way, especially now that fatal push has been printed and esper play more copies of snapcaster. Snapcaster also play much better with serum vision. I ask since i have been on grixis control, but with the increased popularity of death's shadow and eldrazi decks lightning bolt looks a lot worse than path.
Think twice just seems so slow and weak :/
Why do every Esper pilot play think twice while every grixis control player's on serum vision instead? Both decks play quite the same way, especially now that fatal push has been printed and esper play more copies of snapcaster. Snapcaster also play much better with serum vision. I ask since i have been on grixis control, but with the increased popularity of death's shadow and eldrazi decks lightning bolt looks a lot worse than path.
Think twice just seems so slow and weak :/
Think Twice is a draw-engine. It lets us draw multiple cards for only 1 card invested. Serum Visions is a cantrip, mostly there for "fixing" draws -- it replaces itself and only gives minor advantage with the scrys. Cutting Think Twice severely hampers this deck's main strategy, and Serum Visions doesn't help that problem. The cost of Think Twice isn't as problematic considering we're going much later than Grixis Control.
...my matchups honestly have been feeling suddenly better without Push
What decks have you been playing against, and can you give some examples of Fatal Push just not being relevant at all? I think it's quite a good removal spell and can be sided out in match-ups that it doesn't work in, so I'm just wondering what your experiences have been.
The other thing is that 4 Supreme Verdict seems like a lot - I normally have 2 Verdict and 1 Wrath of God in the 75, and at most it will be 3 sweepers in the main deck. Does Verdict ever feel like a dead card to you?
That all said, Blessed Alliance is mint I think, it's strengths against a range of decks definitely make me a fan of it being in the 75, potentially even 1-2 in the starting mainboard depending on your meta.
@Zaccyjaccy Push has just been odd for me. It's been good, don't get me wrong. I just hate it against Tron and Eldrazi, where Condemn stands out so much more.
As a side note, I've been testing Azorius Charm for just a few games and it's crazy good. Never thought I would say that in Modern.
Edit: Oh yeah, and Verdicts -- Yes, they're clunky and dead against combo. I don't care, tbh. 4 Verdicts is necessary when there are decks that like to slam multiple creature threats or difficult to kill creatures (Eldrazi), like Merfolk/BGx Miderange (especially either Huntmaster or Lingering Souls lists)/AbCo/anything. Creatures are the backbone of Modern, so Verdict is just oftentimes super good. Even against other Control strategies, we are the "controlliest" and therefore make Verdict useful against them. The only matchups where it actually feels dead are AdNaus and Tron (both of which are more of a G2/3 win scenario). So yeah, 3 is a necessity, and I'm most comfortable with the 4th, as Lingering Souls is all over the place and I just generally really want to be hitting my Verdicts on time.
To elaborate on ACharm, it's great to use to cycle into lands early, a nice tool in control mirrors, and you can even Snap-Block-ACharm the Snap for maximum troll points. I think I may keep a few in the main for a while and see how it goes.
3) In testing, facing Rx Prison/LDestruction strategies felt meh. I had to add the second Purge in the sideboard because Chandra and Blood Moons are a pain in the ass, but they have such an insane amount of threats. I won against a Nahiri/Chandra Boros decklist, but it's all about if you see hate AND they don't BMoon you on the play in their second turn. SSGuide is real. Maybe we should add something like Ratchet Bomb in the 75 to have an out even in those (non)corner situations?
I think some good sideboard catch-all is nice in these lists, but I'd say that Anguished Unmaking is where I'd rather be than Ratchet Bomb. The life loss usually isn't that big a deal in matches where it comes in - especially when you'd have time to tick the bomb up to 3-4 and then blow it up. Being an instant is also pretty swell. It won't stop a turn-2 SSG-Moon on the draw unless you happen to draw the appropriate basic, but I don't know if that's enough of a reason to run Ratchet Bomb over it.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Going to a win-a-box on Sunday, no idea what the meta will look like, but I'm expecting 30-40 people at the event I think. It's out of town, so it's a pure guess, but based on previous events I've been to there, it sounds about right. Honestly, I normally take Burn to real tournaments as the speed of the deck and the potential early free wins are a blessing in single matches, let alone across the course of the day. Even when you try to play quickly with this deck, sometimes you just can't help going to time, then straight onto the next round the second you finish
I think there's definitely room for optimisation. I feel like the colorless Eldrazi Tron matchup is absolutely terrible, and I wonder if some number of Ceremonious Rejection may actually be correct in the sideboard? It's good against Gx Tron variants for Karn and Wurmcoil, as well as basically every card in the colorless Tron version. Also good against Bant Eldrazi, Lantern and Affinity. Does that warrant a 2-of slot in the board?
I could also see moving Elspeth to the board - I've found I've missed the 4th Wrath in a bunch of matchups since moving her in.
As for the main, the single Negate feels good in some matches, and Logic Knot can feel a little bit soft sometimes, but otherwise I'm reasonably happy with it. I end up boarding the 3rd Runed Halo in almost every matchup once I've determined what cards I'm worried about, so I'm not sure why it isn't just in the main anyway. Could probably swap it for the Negate, potentially.
I would love to make room for a Torrential Gearhulk somewhere too. Has anyone found him decent? If you can stabilise the game, he blocks Reality Smasher, Endbringer and TKS profitably and they have very few ways to interact with him. Really can't think what would actually make way for him though.
I guess our Eldrazi experience differs wildly then. I think it's an incredibly rough game, especially with main deck Chalice to lock out all 1 or 2 drop removal spells/counters/Snaps. Blessed Alliance seems strictly better than Condemn or Push in those matches though, as it lines up far better against Reality Smasher than either.
I agree about Elspeth, but Runed Halo has always been one of the stealth best cards in the deck. It isn't there to protect El (it does a terrible job of that like you said), but it is fantastic at buying time in game 1 against things you don't have an immediate answer for before sideboarding - Thrun, manlands, Planeswalker ultimates, TKS, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Lightning Storm etc. Also a fantastic bounce target with Cryptic if you need to put it on a different card - this is something I would not be looking at demoting to a sideboard slot.
I do still firmly believe secure is not a strict upgrade to WSZ, especially with company coming back.
EE, negate, purge and unmaking are better answers than ratchet bomb.
I think GR ponza is always going to be a bad matchup. Given that they can easily kill basic lands, theres not really anything we can do about that.
RW prison (sun & moon) is a lot easier.
I'm honestly not sure if g/x tron is a bad matchup anymore.
I've not lost a match to it in the past 6 months with esper. (I've drawn once, and won every other time).
U based tron is still miserable, but I no longer fear green tron. I'm not really too unhappy to see it anymore.
Chalice is super hit or miss against us.
Spell snare is terrible against them (hits only chalice on 1, warping wail, or ballista for 1, unless I'm forgetting anything) and while getting our paths turned off is annoying, we have halo, blessed alliance, and wraths. We can also use cryptic to bounce the chalice if we ever need to unload our paths.
Most eldrazi-tron lists don't play cavern, and most don't play ulamog/other cast triggers.
Sure, sometimes TKS and smasher will win, but we have plenty of answers to them when they're counterable.
I'll agree on eldrazi-tron: their nut draw is unbeatable for us, but it's unbeatable for everyone, so why worry? It's not consistent. And when it isn't a consistent deck, we just crush it. Hell, we have 8 one-drops in the deck, and four of them are spell snares that basically have no other target than snaring a chalice on one, and post-board I only have four paths at one, so if they keep in chalices, it's equal dead cards on both sides.
I went 3-0 at a modern fnm tonight (about 30 players) and I actually made some changes to my list:
So, this shift has been a while coming: spell snare just isn't quite as good as it used to be, so I think I've (finally) cut back down to three for a while. 4th verdict back in the main because killing creature decks is important.
Sideboard: Shift back to rest in peace over surgical extraction has been coming for a while. Given that I wasn't playing extractions anymore, it was time to re-examine my discard suite, because that's significantly weaker in a lot of matchups if you don't have access to a pile of extractions. Eventually, I just decided that I'd rather go back to having a dispel, which is reasonable against ad nauseam and the control decks, and some runed halos, which are good against basically every deck I was bringing duress in EXCEPT FOR ad nauseam (it doesn't stop laboratory maniac). Because of that (and the extra slot from going 3 extraction to two RIP), I wanted another card that could interact favorably with both ad nauseam and with the blue mirrors where I liked duress, which meant a return to teferi, mage of zhalfir as he's safe to tap out for against ad naus if you have leyline or halo down, and he's an absolute bomb in blue mirrors.
Tournament:
Round 1--blue/green pile of standard cards
Guy was playing standard legal creatures with a bunch of modern ramp and countermagic. Easy 2-0. I landed like a 4 or 5 for 1 verdict both games and then beat his face in with colonnade and some cleanup paths/blessed alliances.
Round 2: UR Gifts storm
Game one was pretty easy--i spell snared the first baral, pathed the electromancer on his 3rd turn, and untapped to slam leyline on turn 4. He went off and made a ton of goblins, which I untapped and verdicted away, and that was pretty much it. Game two, I baited him into a turn 4 gifts with an EOT esper charm to draw. I let him have it (dispel up) and he found grapeshot, empty, past in flames, ritual. I binned the two storm spells, untapped and slammed the rest in peace I had in hand, stranding a past in flames in his hand and exiling two of his storm cards. A turn or so later he tried to go off with another empty and I had the wrath, so he scooped in the face of rest in peace + snapcaster beats.
Round 3: Abzan midrange
I lose game one. He has turn 3 lilly on the play to my turn 0 leyline, and then he just rips pulse and nukes all my lands as soon as lilly had ticked up to 7. we trade topdecks for a few turns and he rips lingering souls into goyf into scooze, while I rip charm into charm + land into nothing but lands. Oh joy.
Game two, I board out think twices, snaps, and logic knots, bringing in RIP, elspeth, purge, a runed halo, virulent plague, wrath of god, negate. he has an early lilly that he rides for a while, until eventually we're topdecking on an empty board with lilly ticking up. I bounce her with cryptic when he plusses on an empty hand, and a quick card draw spell later we're turning the game around and finishing him.
Game three: Turn 0 leyline, turn two RIP on the draw. He doesn't have the ability to pop my leyline until I already stick the rest in peace, and he just gets ground out hardcore because the rest in peace nullifies too many of his cards (scooze, goyf, lingering souls, tasigur). Both games two and three, sphinx's revelation was what got me the game, and in both games, it was protected from surgical extraction on the first copy by rest in peace. I think this is a matchup where having rest in peace is a HUGE boon--it's worth losing out on snap and logic knot/think twice to just be a blue/white value machine with lands and x spells against abzan.
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Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
How do you feel about having so little countermagic (main and side)? Is it time to just ignore AdNaus and focus on practically every other deck in the format? Even Storm now relies on creatures to go off with 100% consistency. (By the way, how many Verdicts did you leave in for games 2/3? I typically leave in 2.)
I also noticed the Baneslayers, are they still good in your opinion (and can you explain how/why you use them)? I never felt like 2 was enough copies anyways.
Some notes about your decklist: If you're leaning that hard on RiP, I highly suggest a 3rd copy (and I definitely understand why -- Death's Shadow is highly dependent on Lingering Souls, Goyf, and Kommand to grind us out at all, and you still have Storm, BGx, Grixis, Dredge, etc., running around) -- again, 2 never feels like enough to me.
Also, Teferi? How do you intend to resolve your 1-of 5-mana spell against AdNaus when they can combo you at instant speed? Or against control, where tapping 5 mana is basically guaranteeing the Teferi to get countered? I hate to be blunt about it, but I honestly never understood why Teferi was good, and I played him for quite a while -- even brewing a Teachings list with him.
Finally, an interesting note on Spell Snare -- almost any U list is playing at least one Logic Knot now, most of them playing more than 1 (which WE popularized, by the way -- good job yall!), so Snare basically only counters Snapcaster Mages and a 1/2-of Negate. Thus, I really like Dispel at the moment. Remand and Mana Leak are kindof dead in Modern, haha. 3 Logic Knot > 4 Mana Leak
The mindslaver lock is quite difficult to play around though.. (you cannot endlessy counter the artifact when they recover it with academy).
I tried rip in the board but most of the time I found them also annoying for me (blanking think twice leads to poor top deck).
For those who are on the extraction plan would you play 2 or 3 copies in the board ? is there a hope to beat dredge games 2 and 3 with surgical only ?
I was playing 3 Extractions and a NoSB (the nuts against dredge) and have beat dredge in every match after the first time I played it. Cut your counterspells for kill spells.
The only problem with U-based tron is academy.
Otherwise, everything is beatable.
You can leyline/runed halo/exile mindslaver, but academy/crucible just crushes us.
The only way we can beat it is with rest in peace, but its really awkward because its terrible against all of their actual tron stuff.
Still worth bringing in, IMO, but its a pain.
I usually play 3 extractions (if I play any).
Between runed halo, path, and extractions, dredge hasn't been too much of a problem post-ban (you basically only ever lose to conflagrate) but I haven't played it very many times. That being said, even against old dredge, excepting their occasional nut-draw, I only ever lost to turn 10+ conflagrate/grave trolls.
They would deal some damage early, but unless they hit 5+ bloodghast/alamgam in the first 3ish turns, the game always went kind of long.
Its a lot better now that half of their late-game power (troll) is gone, especially since it also slows their dredging down.
I'm willing to accept that most people don't have as much luck against g/x tron as I do, but considering it used to be unwinnable, and most control/midrange decks in modern still get crushed by it, its significant that we have a very real chance.
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There are worse cards to play, but I prefer negate as a tertiary counterspell, and I've been pretty down on mainboard negates for a long time.
As for the others, I've never been a fan of Teferi and Knight-Errant. Teferi comes in too late or at too much mana against most decks you'd bring him in against(combo, aggro-combo, and Control I think). And weak to Blood Moon, but w/e. Knight Errant I believe was there as a fast wincon against Tron/combo, but it's is pretty poor at 4 mana, so I think that Geist would be better for its purpose (if at all, because both of those things come out a little too late). If it's there for grinding, it's again not the best with making only a single 1/1 token a turn (and getting blown out by removal if you jump the token). In the second case, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar/Gideon Jura/Big Elspeth are all just better I think.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Manabase
Currently running Amalek's. Probably need more black sources, so cut a Plains, add a Godless Shrine, cut a Colonnade, add a Catacomb, cut a Fountain, add a Mystic Gate?
Main
Typical setup with 2 Pushes, 3 Verdicts, 2 Snares, 1 Negate, 2 Leylines, 3 Knots.
SB
2 Stonies, 2 Halos, Wrath, Purge, Dispel, Negate, 2 RiP, 2 BA, big Elspeth, X, X
Any input is welcome. I used to run NOSB in the board, but don't know how necessary it is anymore, and I'm stuck on what to do in the final SB slots (more Stonies, RiPs? EEs? Cliques?). Also not sure how to optimize the base. And if we're going heavier on Black, should Negate be Squall?
WUB-Esper Control-WUB
UUU-Merfolk-UUU
It's probably pretty obvious that I'm a big fan of blue.
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Reflecting Pool
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Watery Grave
3x Island
2x Plains
1x Swamp
Wincons (1)
1x White Sun's Zenith
4x Path to Exile
1x Condemn
2x Blessed Alliance
4x Supreme Verdict
Counters (10)
2x Spell Snare
3x Logic Knot
1x Negate
4x Cryptic Command
Card Advantage (12)
4x Think Twice
4x Esper Charm
2x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Dispel
2x Runed Halo
2x Celestial Purge
7x Other
I'm even considering making the Condemn a THIRD Blessed Alliance, since the card is so good right now -- it totally hoses Eldrazi (yes, Bant too) and does a similar thing versus basically everything else while strengthening the Burn matchup (and Bogles, I guess?) while even giving outs to Thrun. I don't think it's necessary at this point, and I'm totally fine with Condemn as pseudo-Path #5 since there are still decks where the not-graveyard clause is very relevant. I suppose I could test a 1-of Fatal Push there, but with Edrazi so prevalent, idk about that.
As for the counters, sometimes cruising on 3 Snares and no mb Negate feels great. And then you play against Tron or simply die after topdecking 2 Snares in a row. So yeah, even though it's amazing versus BGx, Storm, Affinity, and Burn, it's just too much of a liability. In fact, I've lost to all of those decks (except Storm) because of a dead Snare in hand on multiple occasions ranging from years ago to recent times -- they're supposed to be good matchups! It's a shame, because when Snare is good it's REALLY good. I just refuse to die with one in hand again.
So, the sideboard is in shambles now, as my matchups honestly have been feeling suddenly better without Push. I'm only settled on those cards above, and the rest is super ambiguous to me. I want a cheap flash creature for combo/Tron, but I'm not a big fan of Clique. That said, there's practically no other real option. I've been super tempted to try Venser, Shaper Savant since he interacts on the stack too, but I'm wary of the 4 mana cost. It may be good enough tho, and I've literally always wanted to play him in Modern. You can even use it to bounce lands, which is the plan against Tron if you get off the Surg+Quarter plan. Seems worth a thought.
As far as other cards, I've been toying with a Ghost Quarter and 3rd Surg, some Timely Reinforcements, maybe a Disenchant, a pair of Baneslayers (tho 2 never feels like enough), other random crap. Hell, even a Ceremonius Rejection is looking good because it's amazing against Tron, Lantern, any flavor of Eldrazi, and Affinity. That's a huge portion of the metagame!
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I think the consensus on Ashiok is that it just doesn't do enough against enough of the meta to be worth it. There are better options for our 75.
Think twice just seems so slow and weak :/
Think Twice is a draw-engine. It lets us draw multiple cards for only 1 card invested. Serum Visions is a cantrip, mostly there for "fixing" draws -- it replaces itself and only gives minor advantage with the scrys. Cutting Think Twice severely hampers this deck's main strategy, and Serum Visions doesn't help that problem. The cost of Think Twice isn't as problematic considering we're going much later than Grixis Control.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
What decks have you been playing against, and can you give some examples of Fatal Push just not being relevant at all? I think it's quite a good removal spell and can be sided out in match-ups that it doesn't work in, so I'm just wondering what your experiences have been.
The other thing is that 4 Supreme Verdict seems like a lot - I normally have 2 Verdict and 1 Wrath of God in the 75, and at most it will be 3 sweepers in the main deck. Does Verdict ever feel like a dead card to you?
That all said, Blessed Alliance is mint I think, it's strengths against a range of decks definitely make me a fan of it being in the 75, potentially even 1-2 in the starting mainboard depending on your meta.
WUB-Esper Control-WUB
UUU-Merfolk-UUU
It's probably pretty obvious that I'm a big fan of blue.
As a side note, I've been testing Azorius Charm for just a few games and it's crazy good. Never thought I would say that in Modern.
Edit: Oh yeah, and Verdicts -- Yes, they're clunky and dead against combo. I don't care, tbh. 4 Verdicts is necessary when there are decks that like to slam multiple creature threats or difficult to kill creatures (Eldrazi), like Merfolk/BGx Miderange (especially either Huntmaster or Lingering Souls lists)/AbCo/anything. Creatures are the backbone of Modern, so Verdict is just oftentimes super good. Even against other Control strategies, we are the "controlliest" and therefore make Verdict useful against them. The only matchups where it actually feels dead are AdNaus and Tron (both of which are more of a G2/3 win scenario). So yeah, 3 is a necessity, and I'm most comfortable with the 4th, as Lingering Souls is all over the place and I just generally really want to be hitting my Verdicts on time.
To elaborate on ACharm, it's great to use to cycle into lands early, a nice tool in control mirrors, and you can even Snap-Block-ACharm the Snap for maximum troll points. I think I may keep a few in the main for a while and see how it goes.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I think some good sideboard catch-all is nice in these lists, but I'd say that Anguished Unmaking is where I'd rather be than Ratchet Bomb. The life loss usually isn't that big a deal in matches where it comes in - especially when you'd have time to tick the bomb up to 3-4 and then blow it up. Being an instant is also pretty swell. It won't stop a turn-2 SSG-Moon on the draw unless you happen to draw the appropriate basic, but I don't know if that's enough of a reason to run Ratchet Bomb over it.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
However, this is the deck I've been running:
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Reflecting Pool
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
Creatures (2)
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Sorceries (3)
3 Supreme Verdict
Enchantments (2)
2 Runed Halo
Instants (26)
4 Cryptic Command
4 Think Twice
4 Esper Charm
4 Path to Exile
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Logic Knot
2 Spell Snare
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Negate
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Wrath of God
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Runed Halo
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
2 Duress
I think there's definitely room for optimisation. I feel like the colorless Eldrazi Tron matchup is absolutely terrible, and I wonder if some number of Ceremonious Rejection may actually be correct in the sideboard? It's good against Gx Tron variants for Karn and Wurmcoil, as well as basically every card in the colorless Tron version. Also good against Bant Eldrazi, Lantern and Affinity. Does that warrant a 2-of slot in the board?
I could also see moving Elspeth to the board - I've found I've missed the 4th Wrath in a bunch of matchups since moving her in.
As for the main, the single Negate feels good in some matches, and Logic Knot can feel a little bit soft sometimes, but otherwise I'm reasonably happy with it. I end up boarding the 3rd Runed Halo in almost every matchup once I've determined what cards I'm worried about, so I'm not sure why it isn't just in the main anyway. Could probably swap it for the Negate, potentially.
I would love to make room for a Torrential Gearhulk somewhere too. Has anyone found him decent? If you can stabilise the game, he blocks Reality Smasher, Endbringer and TKS profitably and they have very few ways to interact with him. Really can't think what would actually make way for him though.
Anyway, any thoughts?
I agree about Elspeth, but Runed Halo has always been one of the stealth best cards in the deck. It isn't there to protect El (it does a terrible job of that like you said), but it is fantastic at buying time in game 1 against things you don't have an immediate answer for before sideboarding - Thrun, manlands, Planeswalker ultimates, TKS, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Lightning Storm etc. Also a fantastic bounce target with Cryptic if you need to put it on a different card - this is something I would not be looking at demoting to a sideboard slot.
EE, negate, purge and unmaking are better answers than ratchet bomb.
I think GR ponza is always going to be a bad matchup. Given that they can easily kill basic lands, theres not really anything we can do about that.
RW prison (sun & moon) is a lot easier.
I'm honestly not sure if g/x tron is a bad matchup anymore.
I've not lost a match to it in the past 6 months with esper. (I've drawn once, and won every other time).
U based tron is still miserable, but I no longer fear green tron. I'm not really too unhappy to see it anymore.
Chalice is super hit or miss against us.
Spell snare is terrible against them (hits only chalice on 1, warping wail, or ballista for 1, unless I'm forgetting anything) and while getting our paths turned off is annoying, we have halo, blessed alliance, and wraths. We can also use cryptic to bounce the chalice if we ever need to unload our paths.
Most eldrazi-tron lists don't play cavern, and most don't play ulamog/other cast triggers.
Sure, sometimes TKS and smasher will win, but we have plenty of answers to them when they're counterable.
I went 3-0 at a modern fnm tonight (about 30 players) and I actually made some changes to my list:
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
3 hallowed fountain
2 watery grave
3 island
2 plains
1 swamp
1 drowned catacomb
2 ghost quarter
4 think twice
4 esper charm
2 sphinx's revelation
3 spell snare
2 logic knot
4 supreme verdict
4 path to exile
2 blessed alliance
2 snapcaster mage
2 leyline of sanctity
1 white sun's zenith
2 stony silence
2 rest in peace
2 runed halo
2 baneslayer angel
1 celestial purge
1 elspeth, sun's champion
1 wrath of god
1 dispel
1 negate
1 teferi, mage of zhalfir
1 virulent plague
So, this shift has been a while coming: spell snare just isn't quite as good as it used to be, so I think I've (finally) cut back down to three for a while. 4th verdict back in the main because killing creature decks is important.
Sideboard: Shift back to rest in peace over surgical extraction has been coming for a while. Given that I wasn't playing extractions anymore, it was time to re-examine my discard suite, because that's significantly weaker in a lot of matchups if you don't have access to a pile of extractions. Eventually, I just decided that I'd rather go back to having a dispel, which is reasonable against ad nauseam and the control decks, and some runed halos, which are good against basically every deck I was bringing duress in EXCEPT FOR ad nauseam (it doesn't stop laboratory maniac). Because of that (and the extra slot from going 3 extraction to two RIP), I wanted another card that could interact favorably with both ad nauseam and with the blue mirrors where I liked duress, which meant a return to teferi, mage of zhalfir as he's safe to tap out for against ad naus if you have leyline or halo down, and he's an absolute bomb in blue mirrors.
Tournament:
Round 1--blue/green pile of standard cards
Guy was playing standard legal creatures with a bunch of modern ramp and countermagic. Easy 2-0. I landed like a 4 or 5 for 1 verdict both games and then beat his face in with colonnade and some cleanup paths/blessed alliances.
Round 2: UR Gifts storm
Game one was pretty easy--i spell snared the first baral, pathed the electromancer on his 3rd turn, and untapped to slam leyline on turn 4. He went off and made a ton of goblins, which I untapped and verdicted away, and that was pretty much it. Game two, I baited him into a turn 4 gifts with an EOT esper charm to draw. I let him have it (dispel up) and he found grapeshot, empty, past in flames, ritual. I binned the two storm spells, untapped and slammed the rest in peace I had in hand, stranding a past in flames in his hand and exiling two of his storm cards. A turn or so later he tried to go off with another empty and I had the wrath, so he scooped in the face of rest in peace + snapcaster beats.
Round 3: Abzan midrange
I lose game one. He has turn 3 lilly on the play to my turn 0 leyline, and then he just rips pulse and nukes all my lands as soon as lilly had ticked up to 7. we trade topdecks for a few turns and he rips lingering souls into goyf into scooze, while I rip charm into charm + land into nothing but lands. Oh joy.
Game two, I board out think twices, snaps, and logic knots, bringing in RIP, elspeth, purge, a runed halo, virulent plague, wrath of god, negate. he has an early lilly that he rides for a while, until eventually we're topdecking on an empty board with lilly ticking up. I bounce her with cryptic when he plusses on an empty hand, and a quick card draw spell later we're turning the game around and finishing him.
Game three: Turn 0 leyline, turn two RIP on the draw. He doesn't have the ability to pop my leyline until I already stick the rest in peace, and he just gets ground out hardcore because the rest in peace nullifies too many of his cards (scooze, goyf, lingering souls, tasigur). Both games two and three, sphinx's revelation was what got me the game, and in both games, it was protected from surgical extraction on the first copy by rest in peace. I think this is a matchup where having rest in peace is a HUGE boon--it's worth losing out on snap and logic knot/think twice to just be a blue/white value machine with lands and x spells against abzan.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
How do you feel about having so little countermagic (main and side)? Is it time to just ignore AdNaus and focus on practically every other deck in the format?
I also noticed the Baneslayers, are they still good in your opinion (and can you explain how/why you use them)? I never felt like 2 was enough copies anyways.
Some notes about your decklist: If you're leaning that hard on RiP, I highly suggest a 3rd copy (and I definitely understand why -- Death's Shadow is highly dependent on Lingering Souls, Goyf, and Kommand to grind us out at all, and you still have Storm, BGx, Grixis, Dredge, etc., running around) -- again, 2 never feels like enough to me.
Also, Teferi? How do you intend to resolve your 1-of 5-mana spell against AdNaus when they can combo you at instant speed? Or against control, where tapping 5 mana is basically guaranteeing the Teferi to get countered? I hate to be blunt about it, but I honestly never understood why Teferi was good, and I played him for quite a while -- even brewing a Teachings list with him.
Finally, an interesting note on Spell Snare -- almost any U list is playing at least one Logic Knot now, most of them playing more than 1 (which WE popularized, by the way -- good job yall!), so Snare basically only counters Snapcaster Mages and a 1/2-of Negate. Thus, I really like Dispel at the moment. Remand and Mana Leak are kindof dead in Modern, haha. 3 Logic Knot > 4 Mana Leak
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Nice
The mindslaver lock is quite difficult to play around though.. (you cannot endlessy counter the artifact when they recover it with academy).
I tried rip in the board but most of the time I found them also annoying for me (blanking think twice leads to poor top deck).
For those who are on the extraction plan would you play 2 or 3 copies in the board ? is there a hope to beat dredge games 2 and 3 with surgical only ?
I was playing 3 Extractions and a NoSB (the nuts against dredge) and have beat dredge in every match after the first time I played it. Cut your counterspells for kill spells.
Otherwise, everything is beatable.
You can leyline/runed halo/exile mindslaver, but academy/crucible just crushes us.
The only way we can beat it is with rest in peace, but its really awkward because its terrible against all of their actual tron stuff.
Still worth bringing in, IMO, but its a pain.
I usually play 3 extractions (if I play any).
Between runed halo, path, and extractions, dredge hasn't been too much of a problem post-ban (you basically only ever lose to conflagrate) but I haven't played it very many times. That being said, even against old dredge, excepting their occasional nut-draw, I only ever lost to turn 10+ conflagrate/grave trolls.
They would deal some damage early, but unless they hit 5+ bloodghast/alamgam in the first 3ish turns, the game always went kind of long.
Its a lot better now that half of their late-game power (troll) is gone, especially since it also slows their dredging down.
I'm willing to accept that most people don't have as much luck against g/x tron as I do, but considering it used to be unwinnable, and most control/midrange decks in modern still get crushed by it, its significant that we have a very real chance.