Yes, indeed. As long as you can kill plenty of land and have the right mana base, with plenty of early action (i.e. before t3) the rest of the shell just has to have synergy with itself, a decent curve with decent board options. Its when parts of the deck start antagonising each other it falls flat pretty quickly.
Your list is one of the tighter resto/kiki versions I have seen, lots of synergy, good curve.
I might add it to the primer if I get a minute and you keep getting results.
Good report, BTW.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Yes, indeed. As long as you can kill plenty of land and have the right mana base, with plenty of early action (i.e. before t3) the rest of the shell just has to have synergy with itself, a decent curve with decent board options. Its when parts of the deck start antagonising each other it falls flat pretty quickly.
Your list is one of the tighter resto/kiki versions I have seen, lots of synergy, good curve.
I might add it to the primer if I get a minute and you keep getting results.
Good report, BTW.
Thanks! I'm shifting the list around a little, trying to improve. I'm going to try moving away from Resto/Kiki to lower the curve. I'm trying SSG and Crack the Earth, but I'm not sure if I'm going to like CtE.
I think its a binary card. I have seen CTE do amazing things and be very, very bad. If you run quality filtering effects it might be stellar.
Lowering the curve helps against control- my deck tends to beat UR-X control due to the chalice/suppression fields. it is hard to find other cards at 2, beyond removal, that really knacker control lists.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Mwonvuli Acid Moss, Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl give me some ideas. If you read the article, he identifies 4 cmc as a slightly weak spot for the deck. It just so happens that we've got tons of choices at 4.
Consistent turn 1 ramp leads into consistent turn 2 LD. Extra fetch lands to make the Boom // Bust combo a one-sided affair. Your opponent will not beat you to 4.
This deck is a showpiece for Magus, he kicks serious butt and he alone justifies the white splash (as compared to the RG version that I linked)
Beast Within is a wicked good card in this deck. Magus and GDD shrug off the tokens, Ajani can kill them, and they're not quite big enough to justify paying the Magus tax which means Beast Within often plays like "2G - destroy target permanent".
Better yet, GDD can flash it back for free.
I've never controlled the board against Jund like that, and I think it's basically a free win against any deck that expects to be able to utilize a greedy mana-base.
Blood Moon feels like it may be unnecessary. I'll be looking for a nice replacement for it next.
How is going the naihiri´s test? I pick a playset but didnt arrive yet. My idea is to include 4 naihiri + 1 emrakul, and 2 ajani. How are you using her?
IMO, she is the truth. My FNM report from this past Fri is on the previous page. I won 1 game each match w/Nahiri ult into Emrakul. People were kinda shocked.
How is going the naihiri´s test? I pick a playset but didnt arrive yet. My idea is to include 4 naihiri + 1 emrakul, and 2 ajani. How are you using her?
IMO, she is the truth.
I laughed.
I had similarly good experiences with her, but she didn't play super well in every build. It is possible to mess with the deck enough that she doesn't feel right anymore.
I've certainly messed with the deck enough lol. It definitely doesn't fit into any of the Bridge versions at all. Her minus and plus are still powerful though.
Mwonvuli Acid Moss, Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl give me some ideas. If you read the article, he identifies 4 cmc as a slightly weak spot for the deck. It just so happens that we've got tons of choices at 4.
I dug out the pieces of that deck a couple of weeks ago, perhaps after a similar non budget list appeared on MTGO, I think. I can't wait to try it. Spent hours looking for Sprawls too, (only got my 4th yesterday). There is a Modern landkill thread in creation that looks at these type of builds. Obviously you are still welcome to post here with them and more relevantly Naya versions!
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I've certainly messed with the deck enough lol. It definitely doesn't fit into any of the Bridge versions at all. Her minus and plus are still powerful though.
Does not fit with my Suppression Field build either.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Mwonvuli Acid Moss, Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl give me some ideas. If you read the article, he identifies 4 cmc as a slightly weak spot for the deck. It just so happens that we've got tons of choices at 4.
I dug out the pieces of that deck a couple of weeks ago, perhaps after a similar non budget list appeared on MTGO, I think. I can't wait to try it. Spent hours looking for Sprawls too, (only got my 4th yesterday). There is a Modern landkill thread in creation that looks at these type of builds. Obviously you are still welcome to post here with them and more relevantly Naya versions!
I didn't want to push a Naya build too much, but this is the build that finally worked for me. Green supplies exactly the missing pieces to make the strategy work.
I changed my list slightly. Blood Moon was a bad fit for what I was doing. The key change for me was adding scepter of domination. I have enough acceleration and filtering to get it out on T2. It solves problems, it sticks around after a Bust, and it solves the one "problem" that Nahiri had. Beast Within is a beautiful card to recur with GDD, and the mana could potentially even support maelstrom pulse if you wanted it.
Regarding the Naya build, I had someone do something similar to me at SCG last May that was a Sultai version with Frost Titan and Trinisphere lock on top of the ramp. I could see considerations for Trinisphere since Acid-Moss ramps you but with thopter sword back in the meta it might also be worse.
I think the ramp decks can make better use of the upper end slots. One of the more common but incorrect complaints about RW locking decks is that they lose to grixis or usa control, which they only do consistently if your curve mainly starts at 3. Ramp decks really avoid that issue.
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Check out Mike Major's daily deck today- its vaguely relevant for the RW lockdown "Boros bridge" decks.
Its a hybrid Leyline/Blood Moon control deck that runs Lin Vala, some other more janky mid range and up angels and beats for the win. Not quite full lockdown, its wins in midrange style, but when you main deck 4 Leyline and Moon et al. I think it deserves a mention.
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I've noticed that deck, a friend pointed out to me knowing I play this and my love for angels. In my version (I play the landkill) I have restoration angel and Akroma angel of fury...having a coupe of big angels as finishers could be good, but atm I'm more interested in going the nahiri+emeakul route
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
can you post the naya list with the inclusion of magus and scepter of dominance?- scepter is something I've been toying with as well and seems really powerful.
can you post the naya list with the inclusion of magus and scepter of dominance?- scepter is something I've been toying with as well and seems really powerful.
Sure. This isn't optimized for any application however, so your mileage may vary.
Now an explanation:
The source list was a budget RG list that talked at some length about the difficulty of getting double-red on turn 2. I've eliminated that problem by eliminating double-red spells from the list. The author didn't want Boom // Bust in his list but I personally would rather deal with the self-target side of the card and set myself up for the "Boom-ageddon" when Dark Dwellers hits the table.
Scepter of Dominance is just barely making the grade here. I like the role it could potentially play but I don't know if there's a place in Modern for an Icy Manipulator effect.
Avacyn's Pilgrim is a solid ramp creature that specifically helps us get the scepter out on turn 2.
The main plan is to ramp on turn 1, Boom on turn 2, Magus on turn 3
Scepter of Dominance is also a decent turn 3 play, especially after first turn ramp. If you can play the Scepter and also hold one mana open for an activation then you can keep your opponent below 3 mana. It's a little bit Christmasy but it ought to be possible to hit this every now and then.
Turn 1: Temple Garden and Avacyn's Pilgrim
Turn 2: Sacred Foundry, Stone Rain
Turn 3: Plains, Scepter of Dominance, wait until their upkeep to tap down a land.
Turn 4: Goblin Dark-Dwellers, re-cast Stone Rain
In this way, they'd be at 3 (assuming they have a fifth land to drop) but you'd be at 5, which is enough to cast Magus or Nahiri AND keep mana open for the Scepter. If you get Scepter, Magus and Nahiri working together at the same time then it's going to be tough for your opponent to come back from that.
Funny thing - I was grinding playtests of Naya build and I was having familiar problems. Same old thing, it seems like. But I decided to revisit an old idea of mine. For a little while I was touting Tajic, Blade of the Legion as a possibility. He's not very synergistic with any of the RW lists and he costs too much (4 cmc) for what he does but I really liked him in certain situations. The indestructibility made him a solution to tons of creature problems. Tarmagoyf - for example - can bounce off of him forever. Since he's a legend, you can't really build around him as a control card. One Tajic doesn't solve your problems.
But I'm playing Naya colors this time, and I've found a new friend in Troll Ascetic.
He's 3/2, hexproof, regenerates, 3 cmc, and he's not a legend. Plus he's got more power than Tajic. He's simply more useful.
I don't know if you've ever thought of a hexproof creature as a piece of a control shell, but you should give it some thought. As long as you've got the Troll on the field you're immune to small creatures, and if you've got 2 mana available then you're immune to most of the big ones too.
And let's not forget that big-daddy Thrun is available as well.
So I got rid of the Scepters and added Troll Ascetics. They're my disgusting green bodyguards.
If you main deck a worship you could hybridise with troll worship.
I really don't like too many critters though, even mana dorks, as they make magus worse.
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can you post the naya list with the inclusion of magus and scepter of dominance?- scepter is something I've been toying with as well and seems really powerful.
In this way, they'd be at 3 (assuming they have a fifth land to drop) but you'd be at 5, which is enough to cast Magus or Nahiri AND keep mana open for the Scepter. If you get Scepter, Magus and Nahiri working together at the same time then it's going to be tough for your opponent to come back from that.
yeah the scepter magus nahiri lock is what is most interesting to me- Do you think that it needs the ramp and LD to set it up? Is the nahiri(or ajani)+magus+scepter lock more constant and versatile than the blood moon+leyline+bridge lock?
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Your list is one of the tighter resto/kiki versions I have seen, lots of synergy, good curve.
I might add it to the primer if I get a minute and you keep getting results.
Good report, BTW.
Thanks! I'm shifting the list around a little, trying to improve. I'm going to try moving away from Resto/Kiki to lower the curve. I'm trying SSG and Crack the Earth, but I'm not sure if I'm going to like CtE.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=292409
Lowering the curve helps against control- my deck tends to beat UR-X control due to the chalice/suppression fields. it is hard to find other cards at 2, beyond removal, that really knacker control lists.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-99-69-tix-modern-dark-dwellers-stone-rain
Mwonvuli Acid Moss, Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl give me some ideas. If you read the article, he identifies 4 cmc as a slightly weak spot for the deck. It just so happens that we've got tons of choices at 4.
4x Magus of the Tabernacle
3x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2x Arbor Elf
4x Utopia Sprawl
2x Outpost Siege
3x Beast Within
4x Boom // Bust
4x Blood Moon
4x Stone Rain
2x Arid Mesa
3x Forest
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Mountain
1x Plains
3x Stomping Ground
3x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Consistent turn 1 ramp leads into consistent turn 2 LD. Extra fetch lands to make the Boom // Bust combo a one-sided affair. Your opponent will not beat you to 4.
This deck is a showpiece for Magus, he kicks serious butt and he alone justifies the white splash (as compared to the RG version that I linked)
Beast Within is a wicked good card in this deck. Magus and GDD shrug off the tokens, Ajani can kill them, and they're not quite big enough to justify paying the Magus tax which means Beast Within often plays like "2G - destroy target permanent".
Better yet, GDD can flash it back for free.
I've never controlled the board against Jund like that, and I think it's basically a free win against any deck that expects to be able to utilize a greedy mana-base.
Blood Moon feels like it may be unnecessary. I'll be looking for a nice replacement for it next.
IMO, she is the truth. My FNM report from this past Fri is on the previous page. I won 1 game each match w/Nahiri ult into Emrakul. People were kinda shocked.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=292409
I laughed.
I had similarly good experiences with her, but she didn't play super well in every build. It is possible to mess with the deck enough that she doesn't feel right anymore.
I dug out the pieces of that deck a couple of weeks ago, perhaps after a similar non budget list appeared on MTGO, I think. I can't wait to try it. Spent hours looking for Sprawls too, (only got my 4th yesterday). There is a Modern landkill thread in creation that looks at these type of builds. Obviously you are still welcome to post here with them and more relevantly Naya versions!
Does not fit with my Suppression Field build either.
I didn't want to push a Naya build too much, but this is the build that finally worked for me. Green supplies exactly the missing pieces to make the strategy work.
I changed my list slightly. Blood Moon was a bad fit for what I was doing. The key change for me was adding scepter of domination. I have enough acceleration and filtering to get it out on T2. It solves problems, it sticks around after a Bust, and it solves the one "problem" that Nahiri had. Beast Within is a beautiful card to recur with GDD, and the mana could potentially even support maelstrom pulse if you wanted it.
Its a hybrid Leyline/Blood Moon control deck that runs Lin Vala, some other more janky mid range and up angels and beats for the win. Not quite full lockdown, its wins in midrange style, but when you main deck 4 Leyline and Moon et al. I think it deserves a mention.
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Sure. This isn't optimized for any application however, so your mileage may vary.
2x Arid Mesa
3x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Stomping Ground
3x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Scepter of Dominance
Enchantment (4)
4x Utopia Sprawl
Instant (3)
3x Beast Within
Creature (17)
2x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4x Magus of the Tabernacle
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Boom // Bust
4x Stone Rain
Now an explanation:
The source list was a budget RG list that talked at some length about the difficulty of getting double-red on turn 2. I've eliminated that problem by eliminating double-red spells from the list. The author didn't want Boom // Bust in his list but I personally would rather deal with the self-target side of the card and set myself up for the "Boom-ageddon" when Dark Dwellers hits the table.
Scepter of Dominance is just barely making the grade here. I like the role it could potentially play but I don't know if there's a place in Modern for an Icy Manipulator effect.
Avacyn's Pilgrim is a solid ramp creature that specifically helps us get the scepter out on turn 2.
The main plan is to ramp on turn 1, Boom on turn 2, Magus on turn 3
Scepter of Dominance is also a decent turn 3 play, especially after first turn ramp. If you can play the Scepter and also hold one mana open for an activation then you can keep your opponent below 3 mana. It's a little bit Christmasy but it ought to be possible to hit this every now and then.
Turn 1: Temple Garden and Avacyn's Pilgrim
Turn 2: Sacred Foundry, Stone Rain
Turn 3: Plains, Scepter of Dominance, wait until their upkeep to tap down a land.
Turn 4: Goblin Dark-Dwellers, re-cast Stone Rain
In this way, they'd be at 3 (assuming they have a fifth land to drop) but you'd be at 5, which is enough to cast Magus or Nahiri AND keep mana open for the Scepter. If you get Scepter, Magus and Nahiri working together at the same time then it's going to be tough for your opponent to come back from that.
But I'm playing Naya colors this time, and I've found a new friend in Troll Ascetic.
He's 3/2, hexproof, regenerates, 3 cmc, and he's not a legend. Plus he's got more power than Tajic. He's simply more useful.
I don't know if you've ever thought of a hexproof creature as a piece of a control shell, but you should give it some thought. As long as you've got the Troll on the field you're immune to small creatures, and if you've got 2 mana available then you're immune to most of the big ones too.
And let's not forget that big-daddy Thrun is available as well.
So I got rid of the Scepters and added Troll Ascetics. They're my disgusting green bodyguards.
I really don't like too many critters though, even mana dorks, as they make magus worse.
yeah the scepter magus nahiri lock is what is most interesting to me- Do you think that it needs the ramp and LD to set it up? Is the nahiri(or ajani)+magus+scepter lock more constant and versatile than the blood moon+leyline+bridge lock?