With Jace and BBE about I think PW control without bridge is going to be harder.
BBE is a great answer to Pws and will improve grindy GR-X decks.
JTMS needs instant answers or preventative measures -and white is remarkably bad at Chain of Mephistopheles-ing opponents. Spirit OTL is a dude, which sucks vs UW-X. Needle exists, but there are a fair few decks where it is dead if you main it and unlike Legacy Lands Needle main is not a viable call.
For me PW control needs a bit more burn- that may mean Ajani, or just more burn to the head.
It needs them to print a non critter hoser of draw, and a playable worldqueller type card even or a Hannah's custody type card- certainly some new card will be needed to make the deck on a par with JTMS.
I see a future where RW PW control runs bridges for midrange, but is very vulnerable to Jund to to K command.
I see a future where without Bridges it is vulnerable to Midrange Jund builds. Leyline main deck gets a lot better but the upcoming rule changes make that option worse if you want to close games with PWs.
Landkill builds I think may get not as hurt, but UW_X has always been hard for landkill if they get countering the first two skill spells.
I expect many fans of RW PW control will gravitate to Jace builds, those that don't will make the deck more red and Bridge-y or more landkill-y with 4 suppression fields.
I will persist with some landkill strategy from time to time, but I am not hopeful given the way things are looking in terms of the likely emergence of JTMS control, Jund and probably Tron.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I've been running this list for some time now online, and having decent success with it.
Jund, and Jace decks, are a little tricky, I'm still working on sorting out the right mix of cards. I've been playing Lightning Helix over the Spirit Guides also, but I've found the guides very good as well.
I'd love to get some feedback and a bit of a discussion, particularly on the merits of Landkill decks over PW control.
Mainboard:
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Suppression Field
3 Boom/Bust
3 Molten Rain
3 Stone Rain
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Rugged Prairie
2 Cast Out
2 Gemstone Caverns
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
2 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Outpost Siege
1 Assemble the Legion
Sideboard:
1 Baneslayer Angel
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Wrath of God
2 Rest in Peace
2 Torpor Orb
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Boil
2 Stony Silence
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
Landkill is better against 3-4 col greedy lists with limited win cons, and better against tron although that match is not a forgone conclusion. The more they try and cheat, the harder it is for them to beat a landkill/s field mix with Chalices etc.
The PW control lists are better against midrange and some aggro, but their main strength lies in the fact that they close games out very quickly and they can swap between modes more easily. Fewer draws and faster finishes.
The landkill lists are underplayed historically, few people have played them and so the "best build" has never been found, and people had success with a variety. The PW control lists were so homogenous that they were within 2-3 cards of each other per 75, although a large number of players just picked up the early established deck and learnt it, which reinforced the established deck, which is rather different to the way in which Lantern developed for example. Personally I would wager that if a Todd S type player picked up a landkill list or a list with some landkill in the deck would have been *exactly* as successful overall, given the meta at the time.
Neither deck especially enjoys U based control, which may be an issue in future.....
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
With Jace and BBE about I think PW control without bridge is going to be harder.
BBE is a great answer to Pws and will improve grindy GR-X decks.
JTMS needs instant answers or preventative measures -and white is remarkably bad at Chain of Mephistopheles-ing opponents. Spirit OTL is a dude, which sucks vs UW-X. Needle exists, but there are a fair few decks where it is dead if you main it and unlike Legacy Lands Needle main is not a viable call.
For me PW control needs a bit more burn- that may mean Ajani, or just more burn to the head.
It needs them to print a non critter hoser of draw, and a playable worldqueller type card even or a Hannah's custody type card- certainly some new card will be needed to make the deck on a par with JTMS.
I see a future where RW PW control runs bridges for midrange, but is very vulnerable to Jund to to K command.
I see a future where without Bridges it is vulnerable to Midrange Jund builds. Leyline main deck gets a lot better but the upcoming rule changes make that option worse if you want to close games with PWs.
Landkill builds I think may get not as hurt, but UW_X has always been hard for landkill if they get countering the first two skill spells.
I expect many fans of RW PW control will gravitate to Jace builds, those that don't will make the deck more red and Bridge-y or more landkill-y with 4 suppression fields.
I will persist with some landkill strategy from time to time, but I am not hopeful given the way things are looking in terms of the likely emergence of JTMS control, Jund and probably Tron.
Both Jund and Jace control have so many answers to ensnaring bridge, and Jace’s ultimate can get around ensnaring bridge or Jund can burn us out. Elspeth, leyline of sanctity, Rest In Peace, and wrath is what we want against Jund.
Jace control will be a super hard matchup. He’s better than any of our PWers and blue provides so much control and value against us.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
In the older versions of RW they all ran 4 Leyline of S, reducing jund's ability to interact via burn and handkill, including Lilly's ultimate. Leyline will be worse now in terms of planeswalker protection post Dominaria, but it is still a hell of a card, works vs Storm (hitting gifts ungiven and grapeshot), against half of ad nauseam, burn, plus valakut, and it really hurts Mardu pyromancer and midrange decks that have the black discard suite.
RIP is excellent too, and I would happily main deck it in the right deck as it is rarely lacking in value- how many decks are unaffacted by it? It hits modular death triggers in affinity, the whole of dredge/living end, half of reanimator, snapcaster, storm's bin manupulation, L souls, goyf, finks and others. Pretty decent. Wrath is not too stellar vs Jund, BBE and manlands mean that it is not as good as it seems, although Moon can eat manlands. It is certainly no better than Bridge, the truth being that Jund answers everything, as it always has. Elspeth is certainly very strong vs those decks, always has been.
Jace can of course get round bridge. In fact it can get around the whole deck pretty much. Leyline is decent here, but they will win with repeated B storming.
In the Twin days I would run Volcanic Fallout over Pyroclasm or Anger as it was uncounterable and able to help close out the last few points of damage in my Boros Midrange that ran a more Aggro package with board control elements. It might be time to sleeve them back up in any R shell looking to pressure Jace while keeping creatures in check also. I’ve always been a Boom//Bust fan and with even a singleton or pair of Ajani it helps play that heavy roll of suppressing mana developement and keeping heat from creatures off you. With Jace possibly looking to - threats off the board would it be a good time to test Goblin Dark Dwellers? They bounce it and just give you a chance to gain more card advantage again flinging Molten Rain’s in their face and redirecting to Jace. Chalice to lock out their counter Magic or Defense Grid to also lock things up?
I think the principle is sound.
Landkill has always been a sub theme in this forum, a side order rather than main dish. Back in the days of Memory Lapse's thread his early version was more planeswalkers Bridge control. I favoured landkill running versions. We have always discussed them side by side, and generally they have been equally successful and often joined by builds focusing on both. The big exception is in the Todd S. era of Sun And Moon, which dominated in player numbers due to the exposure.
I think SnM will have to adopt better burn, and uncountable is going to be gold dust. Sadly we have few options here, but D grid, Boil and even Obliterate all exist, and some enchantments exist that may enable us to grind through CA ourselves.
Certainly Ajani is better in a Jace war than some, but it is very fragile.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Ended up facing 2 Junds, 1 Mardu Pyromancer and 1 Abzan Tokens. Lost to one of the Junds in a very close Game 3.
Has anyone been still playing Sun and Moon? My deck seemed really powerful yesterday. I enjoyed a lot playing it. Have been thinking of cutting the Ajani Vengeant for the 3rd Chandra, Torch of Defiance, cutting the Sarkhan the Dragonspeaker for a Chandra, Flamecaller or a Hazoret and cutting the Molten Rain or the Boil for a Celestial Purge. Any thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
It has some issues if there are counterspell decks about, that is the weakness the deck has. It preys on aggro and midrange is often favoured, plus some linear decks have issues. Fewer are playing it, especially those who are uncomfortable playing a deck that no longer has articles written about it.
It never was as good as people thought when Todd S promoted the deck, there were loads playing pretty much identikit lists and putting up very decent results, but the meta in big events favoured it then. A lot of people had difficulty in LGS events where odd decks were more likely, this type of deck has always been a meta assassin, and remand jace decks hurt it. Durdle Tron often has a better game 1 than expected too, wiping out Moon eventually and just winning.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I didn't play the deck that much yet, but on my short experience, I felt like the deck performs decently against most U-Control decks in Modern, because most of them play around 6~9 counterspells only, they are oftenly forced to counter my lock pieces, and they usually have a ton of dead cards against me (so do I, but at least I'm not unfavoured for this reason). For that reason I can very oftenly resolve a powerful walker, and anyone of them usually wins the game. Also, if I manage to play a Blood Moon or a Chalice of the Void under their counterspells, I might be able to just lock them enough to win.
However, if I can't force a lock piece under their conterspells, or just play more threats than they're able to counter, I'm probably losing because I just can't force much end of turn action to force counterspells, and then try to resolve something relevant. Almost everything in my deck is Sorcery Speed.
For that reason I added a Boil to the sideboard, and I have been thinking of adding a second one. I played against a U Tron recently and it felt really hard for me, because they usually play more counterspells than most Controls in Modern, and they can just play bigger than I do. But when I played Jeskai and UW I felt it was pretty even match. Might be wrong though. I didn't play the deck that much yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Boil is very good, at EOT you can cast it which reduces their mana for a turn if they counter it or permanently if they don't. You can sometimes resolve it if they use cryptic aggressively to bounce/draw.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
It’s fantastic, even if it only got sided in. It becomes extra copies if whatever your best sideboard card in the moment. Well it’s not quite a true tutor but I’ll take it! Only so many Cages or non-mainboard Walkers, Legendary anything... Saga? WHOLE mess of potentially good Sagas to reinforce the Pillowfort! How about some real fun being able to really fine tune knowing your can find things. I love 4 of lists but sometimes it becomes too rigid.
There's too many interesting Johnny ideas this time. I'm afraid I might go way off the rails...
1. Mox Amber - It needs either legendaries or PWs to make it work. Preferably legends that cost 1 cmc. Interesting thing about that - Red and White have pretty good legends at 1 cmc.
Kytheon, Hero of Akros
Rhys the Redeemed
Zurgo Bellstriker
Norin the Wary
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Legion's Landing
Throw in Bushi Tenderfoot and it makes for an interesting mix with some cards having control implications. You could easily use just two of each if you want to avoid the Legend rule, already giving you 14 chances to activate the Mox. Legion's Landing is actually probably the best one since it is hardest to remove (enchantment) and can transform into a useful land. Of course it also has an ETB clause which - if you're interested in that kind of direction those cards can also play nicely with Norin. I am NOT interested in making a full Norin deck but if he can't be removed then the mox can't be turned off. I'm just saying...
2. Urza's Ruinous Blast. Exile all nonlegendary non-land permanents. 5 cmc. WHAT? We're gonna need a bigger boat. Not only that - you can also dig for it using Board the Weatherlight. Hory sheet. That'll be awesome for any deck that is almost entirely constructed out of legends and PWs
3. Damping Sphere - a new toy for all the control decks.
4. Speaking of legends and cards that go well with Norin, there are some interesting Vehicles and equipment to consider. Might be worth having one or two since the creatures are small. There have been a few of these planted in earlier sets btw. Stuff like Heart of Kiran.
5. But wait there's more. If you include any 2 cmc Legendary creatures you could add cards like Thalia, Ashling the Pilgrim, Eight and a half Tails, Kari Zev Skyship Raider, Kataki wars wage, and - if you're willing to run Rhys and stretch the mana base a little bit you actually might even be able to play Gaddock Teeg.
6. Speaking of stretching the mana base - Board the Weatherlight also gives you the ability to dig for legendary lands.
7. Shalai, Voice of Plenty - 4 cmc flying 3/4 angel that grants hexproof to everything that isn't her. She also has an extra "add a +1/+1 counter" ability if you can swing some green mana. At that point I don't even care but the moxes probably could satisfy that need.
8. Fall of the Thran - An armageddon you can dig for. It's expensive though and you probably want to have a way to get rid of it before the lands are restored. Something like Nahiri perhaps...
I can't even finish thinking. I'm overloaded. I know there's a really good chance that something won't work as well as I had hoped, but there's so many new things to think about. Hell, I even had thoughts that Hokori Dust Drinker might be worth looking at again. It's confusing in all the best ways.
obviously leyline may not be a good as it used to be
Only if you run Sun and Moon pw builds. If you are running Suppression Field builds with no PW then Leyline is the same. That said landkill is the only one I gave seen run S Field and it is not especially in need of Leylines in the board, unlike most W decks.
As for Dominaria there is more for Pillow Fort builds/enchantment control or Enduring Ideal builds due to Sagas than for any traditional RW Prison. Sun Moon and Bridge variants gets little so far beyond the rather obvious mini trinisphere, Damping Sphere, which is excellent. The Sagas offer stuff, the blast may be a great reset button, but generally the
Legendary critter themes just do not help. The cards like board the WL may work in a heavily skewed shell type.
Mox Amber I can see working with some decks, but not a prison like RW, unless it is a full Norrin the W type deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Is there any chance you're sleeping on Ruinous Blast? It's not just a reset. I Imagine casting it and keeping all of my creatures while my opponent loses all of his. Hope of Ghirapur fits the theme and could be useful either main or sideboard to make certain that the Ruinous Blast connects against permission. Then there's also Silence.
Not remotely... Yes it protects your Walkers where Leyline won’t any more but being a creature is a liability. Also Leyline comes down turn zero...
Yeah i hear you; the free-cast thing is real. But do we - 'player' - need hexproof badly for this deck, to justify running a playset of that, where Shalai protects my 7 PWs and perhaps a Rabblemaster, and also is a flyer that can't be bolted?
Is damage to the face a primary way this deck loses, i guess is what i'm asking. Especially with Damping Sphere coming to nerf Storm a bit, and/or reduce its presence in the meta.
Not remotely... Yes it protects your Walkers where Leyline won’t any more but being a creature is a liability. Also Leyline comes down turn zero...
Yeah i hear you; the free-cast thing is real. But do we - 'player' - need hexproof badly for this deck, to justify running a playset of that, where Shalai protects my 7 PWs and perhaps a Rabblemaster, and also is a flyer that can't be bolted?
Is damage to the face a primary way this deck loses, i guess is what i'm asking. Especially with Damping Sphere coming to nerf Storm a bit, and/or reduce its presence in the meta.
Its more that Leyline T1 stops so SO much. Hand disruption, burn spells, gifts ungiven, random other spells- Its so good early, and less so (still incredible) late. If you have walkers on the board already, you are most likely already winning. Protecting walkers is really good but getting to that point is more important.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
BBE is a great answer to Pws and will improve grindy GR-X decks.
JTMS needs instant answers or preventative measures -and white is remarkably bad at Chain of Mephistopheles-ing opponents. Spirit OTL is a dude, which sucks vs UW-X. Needle exists, but there are a fair few decks where it is dead if you main it and unlike Legacy Lands Needle main is not a viable call.
For me PW control needs a bit more burn- that may mean Ajani, or just more burn to the head.
It needs them to print a non critter hoser of draw, and a playable worldqueller type card even or a Hannah's custody type card- certainly some new card will be needed to make the deck on a par with JTMS.
I see a future where RW PW control runs bridges for midrange, but is very vulnerable to Jund to to K command.
I see a future where without Bridges it is vulnerable to Midrange Jund builds. Leyline main deck gets a lot better but the upcoming rule changes make that option worse if you want to close games with PWs.
Landkill builds I think may get not as hurt, but UW_X has always been hard for landkill if they get countering the first two skill spells.
I expect many fans of RW PW control will gravitate to Jace builds, those that don't will make the deck more red and Bridge-y or more landkill-y with 4 suppression fields.
I will persist with some landkill strategy from time to time, but I am not hopeful given the way things are looking in terms of the likely emergence of JTMS control, Jund and probably Tron.
Jund, and Jace decks, are a little tricky, I'm still working on sorting out the right mix of cards. I've been playing Lightning Helix over the Spirit Guides also, but I've found the guides very good as well.
I'd love to get some feedback and a bit of a discussion, particularly on the merits of Landkill decks over PW control.
Mainboard:
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Suppression Field
3 Boom/Bust
3 Molten Rain
3 Stone Rain
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Rugged Prairie
2 Cast Out
2 Gemstone Caverns
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
2 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Outpost Siege
1 Assemble the Legion
Sideboard:
1 Baneslayer Angel
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Wrath of God
2 Rest in Peace
2 Torpor Orb
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Boil
2 Stony Silence
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
The PW control lists are better against midrange and some aggro, but their main strength lies in the fact that they close games out very quickly and they can swap between modes more easily. Fewer draws and faster finishes.
The landkill lists are underplayed historically, few people have played them and so the "best build" has never been found, and people had success with a variety. The PW control lists were so homogenous that they were within 2-3 cards of each other per 75, although a large number of players just picked up the early established deck and learnt it, which reinforced the established deck, which is rather different to the way in which Lantern developed for example. Personally I would wager that if a Todd S type player picked up a landkill list or a list with some landkill in the deck would have been *exactly* as successful overall, given the meta at the time.
Neither deck especially enjoys U based control, which may be an issue in future.....
Both Jund and Jace control have so many answers to ensnaring bridge, and Jace’s ultimate can get around ensnaring bridge or Jund can burn us out. Elspeth, leyline of sanctity, Rest In Peace, and wrath is what we want against Jund.
Jace control will be a super hard matchup. He’s better than any of our PWers and blue provides so much control and value against us.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
RIP is excellent too, and I would happily main deck it in the right deck as it is rarely lacking in value- how many decks are unaffacted by it? It hits modular death triggers in affinity, the whole of dredge/living end, half of reanimator, snapcaster, storm's bin manupulation, L souls, goyf, finks and others. Pretty decent. Wrath is not too stellar vs Jund, BBE and manlands mean that it is not as good as it seems, although Moon can eat manlands. It is certainly no better than Bridge, the truth being that Jund answers everything, as it always has. Elspeth is certainly very strong vs those decks, always has been.
Jace can of course get round bridge. In fact it can get around the whole deck pretty much. Leyline is decent here, but they will win with repeated B storming.
Landkill has always been a sub theme in this forum, a side order rather than main dish. Back in the days of Memory Lapse's thread his early version was more planeswalkers Bridge control. I favoured landkill running versions. We have always discussed them side by side, and generally they have been equally successful and often joined by builds focusing on both. The big exception is in the Todd S. era of Sun And Moon, which dominated in player numbers due to the exposure.
I think SnM will have to adopt better burn, and uncountable is going to be gold dust. Sadly we have few options here, but D grid, Boil and even Obliterate all exist, and some enchantments exist that may enable us to grind through CA ourselves.
Certainly Ajani is better in a Jace war than some, but it is very fragile.
I'm a long time Modern player, but recently decided to play Sun and Moon.
I finished the deck last week and yesterday accomplished a third place on a local tournament with a 3-1-0.
I played this deck:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Needle Spires
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Clifftop Retreat
9 Plains
1 Mountain
Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Planeswalkers
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Gideon Jura
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Abrade
3 Lightning Helix
Sorcery
3 Sweltering Suns
1 Day of Judgment
1 Wrath of God
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
Enchantments
4 Blood Moon
1 Cast Out
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
1 Molten Rain
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Boil
1 Roast
Ended up facing 2 Junds, 1 Mardu Pyromancer and 1 Abzan Tokens. Lost to one of the Junds in a very close Game 3.
Has anyone been still playing Sun and Moon? My deck seemed really powerful yesterday. I enjoyed a lot playing it. Have been thinking of cutting the Ajani Vengeant for the 3rd Chandra, Torch of Defiance, cutting the Sarkhan the Dragonspeaker for a Chandra, Flamecaller or a Hazoret and cutting the Molten Rain or the Boil for a Celestial Purge. Any thoughts?
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
It never was as good as people thought when Todd S promoted the deck, there were loads playing pretty much identikit lists and putting up very decent results, but the meta in big events favoured it then. A lot of people had difficulty in LGS events where odd decks were more likely, this type of deck has always been a meta assassin, and remand jace decks hurt it. Durdle Tron often has a better game 1 than expected too, wiping out Moon eventually and just winning.
However, if I can't force a lock piece under their conterspells, or just play more threats than they're able to counter, I'm probably losing because I just can't force much end of turn action to force counterspells, and then try to resolve something relevant. Almost everything in my deck is Sorcery Speed.
For that reason I added a Boil to the sideboard, and I have been thinking of adding a second one. I played against a U Tron recently and it felt really hard for me, because they usually play more counterspells than most Controls in Modern, and they can just play bigger than I do. But when I played Jeskai and UW I felt it was pretty even match. Might be wrong though. I didn't play the deck that much yet.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Board the Weatherlight
Sorcery
1W
Look at top 5, put a historic card (legend, saga or artifact) into hand. Put other 4 on bottom of library.
A way to help you avoid redundant leylines.
A way to dig for bridges.
A way to dig for a smaller number of PWs too if im not mistaken.
White rarely gets cards like this. I don't know how to evaluate it.
1. Mox Amber - It needs either legendaries or PWs to make it work. Preferably legends that cost 1 cmc. Interesting thing about that - Red and White have pretty good legends at 1 cmc.
Kytheon, Hero of Akros
Rhys the Redeemed
Zurgo Bellstriker
Norin the Wary
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Legion's Landing
Throw in Bushi Tenderfoot and it makes for an interesting mix with some cards having control implications. You could easily use just two of each if you want to avoid the Legend rule, already giving you 14 chances to activate the Mox. Legion's Landing is actually probably the best one since it is hardest to remove (enchantment) and can transform into a useful land. Of course it also has an ETB clause which - if you're interested in that kind of direction those cards can also play nicely with Norin. I am NOT interested in making a full Norin deck but if he can't be removed then the mox can't be turned off. I'm just saying...
2. Urza's Ruinous Blast. Exile all nonlegendary non-land permanents. 5 cmc. WHAT? We're gonna need a bigger boat. Not only that - you can also dig for it using Board the Weatherlight. Hory sheet. That'll be awesome for any deck that is almost entirely constructed out of legends and PWs
3. Damping Sphere - a new toy for all the control decks.
4. Speaking of legends and cards that go well with Norin, there are some interesting Vehicles and equipment to consider. Might be worth having one or two since the creatures are small. There have been a few of these planted in earlier sets btw. Stuff like Heart of Kiran.
5. But wait there's more. If you include any 2 cmc Legendary creatures you could add cards like Thalia, Ashling the Pilgrim, Eight and a half Tails, Kari Zev Skyship Raider, Kataki wars wage, and - if you're willing to run Rhys and stretch the mana base a little bit you actually might even be able to play Gaddock Teeg.
6. Speaking of stretching the mana base - Board the Weatherlight also gives you the ability to dig for legendary lands.
7. Shalai, Voice of Plenty - 4 cmc flying 3/4 angel that grants hexproof to everything that isn't her. She also has an extra "add a +1/+1 counter" ability if you can swing some green mana. At that point I don't even care but the moxes probably could satisfy that need.
8. Fall of the Thran - An armageddon you can dig for. It's expensive though and you probably want to have a way to get rid of it before the lands are restored. Something like Nahiri perhaps...
I can't even finish thinking. I'm overloaded. I know there's a really good chance that something won't work as well as I had hoped, but there's so many new things to think about. Hell, I even had thoughts that Hokori Dust Drinker might be worth looking at again. It's confusing in all the best ways.
Only if you run Sun and Moon pw builds. If you are running Suppression Field builds with no PW then Leyline is the same. That said landkill is the only one I gave seen run S Field and it is not especially in need of Leylines in the board, unlike most W decks.
As for Dominaria there is more for Pillow Fort builds/enchantment control or Enduring Ideal builds due to Sagas than for any traditional RW Prison. Sun Moon and Bridge variants gets little so far beyond the rather obvious mini trinisphere, Damping Sphere, which is excellent. The Sagas offer stuff, the blast may be a great reset button, but generally the
Legendary critter themes just do not help. The cards like board the WL may work in a heavily skewed shell type.
Mox Amber I can see working with some decks, but not a prison like RW, unless it is a full Norrin the W type deck.
I am proposing an Urza's Ruinous Blast deck.
Not remotely... Yes it protects your Walkers where Leyline won’t any more but being a creature is a liability. Also Leyline comes down turn zero...
Yeah i hear you; the free-cast thing is real. But do we - 'player' - need hexproof badly for this deck, to justify running a playset of that, where Shalai protects my 7 PWs and perhaps a Rabblemaster, and also is a flyer that can't be bolted?
Is damage to the face a primary way this deck loses, i guess is what i'm asking. Especially with Damping Sphere coming to nerf Storm a bit, and/or reduce its presence in the meta.
Its more that Leyline T1 stops so SO much. Hand disruption, burn spells, gifts ungiven, random other spells- Its so good early, and less so (still incredible) late. If you have walkers on the board already, you are most likely already winning. Protecting walkers is really good but getting to that point is more important.