TCG given RW the treatment.
As you know I really do recommend running main deck RIP for the RW planeswalker version, and so does he. Great minds eh? I normally go for two, sometimes 3, rarely 1.
Sure there is no secret here, it has barely changed. Since most players are on RW walkers I don't post about it very often, so as not to clog up the forum.
The megaliths is just for grindy decks, it can ping the odd snapcaster every now and then.
The scrylands are essential, great for reanimating via crucible later on if you cast the smaller end of boom bust
I don't think the deck works as well with rugged prarie, its down to those times when you have to blow up your land. Forge is better.
Fetches are a total nonbo with s field and must be avoided at all costs.
Crucible is not essential, but I like to run 1 to open up pseudo 'geddon options as as recur GQs and under time pressure when win cons are needed if you blow up your scryland you can bring it back to scry.
RIP is a nonbo with flagstones, dweller and recurring crucible quarters or post bust rebuilding.
board
1 outpost siege (it can't run planeswalkers due to s field, its for grindy decks)
1 assemble the legion (fair decks, don't worry about the mini nonbo with magus)
3 stony silence (tron GW/RG, affinity, ad nauseam)
2 eidolon of rhetoric (storm, tron, a lot of cantrip-y decks e.g. ad nauseam, its actually decent vs Burn and can come in vs snapcaster decks and also vs any tron deck using stirrings, mana poppers etc.)
1 oust (co-co, death's shadow decks)
1 linvala (elves, coco, decks that don't have flyers)
1 runed halo (flex slot, can be grafdiggers no II, Gideon's, Nevermore etc.)
1 grafdigger's cage (reanimator, coco etc.)
4 leyline of sanctity (BG-X decks with discard, 8 rack, burn etc.)
So really very little change, a couple of board tweaks/main swaps.
The list of things SF hits is huge. I have not run SSG for some while, the free wins from when you power into SF and they get stranded with no fetches are few and far between.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
No, mentor is sadly awful for us and Mindcensor is fantastic in the deck, with the s field in operation, it often stops a land itself when fetching, instead of dying as it often does against so may decks when flashed in, this is because they often have no mana when it is flashed in due to the taxes.
Mentor does not stop anybody doing things, which is the raison d'etre of the deck. Damaging an opponent to the face is a often a bad play in a control deck for similar reasons.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Do people find this deck actually works more than 25% of the time? Because I've played a dozen or so games with it and have won maybe 2 or 3 while flopping in all sorts of spectacular fashions in the rest.
In particular any deck with counterspells seems pretty much an auto-lose as you try to jam 4 mana planeswalkers while applying no pressure whatsoever and sitting on fists full of sweepers.
Chalice of the Void has also not even come close to winning me a game whether played turn 1 or 2. I invalidate their fatal push and path to exiles which were already dead anyways. The best case scenario is to be on the play, pitch a guide and block some thoughtseizes. But those are the decks that can either abrupt decay the chalice if/when it matters or use something like collective brutality or liliana to turn the dead card into something useful anyways.
just feels like there are an awful lot of dead cards from match to match, and even when you throw down the hammer with a turn 1 chalice/ turn 2 moon sometimes it just doesn't even matter. And in a lot of games 4 mana planeswalkers are just too slow when you have 0 blockers and limited interaction
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Do people find this deck actually works more than 25% of the time? Because I've played a dozen or so games with it and have won maybe 2 or 3 while flopping in all sorts of spectacular fashions in the rest.
In particular any deck with counterspells seems pretty much an auto-lose as you try to jam 4 mana planeswalkers while applying no pressure whatsoever and sitting on fists full of sweepers.
Chalice of the Void has also not even come close to winning me a game whether played turn 1 or 2. I invalidate their fatal push and path to exiles which were already dead anyways. The best case scenario is to be on the play, pitch a guide and block some thoughtseizes. But those are the decks that can either abrupt decay the chalice if/when it matters or use something like collective brutality or liliana to turn the dead card into something useful anyways.
just feels like there are an awful lot of dead cards from match to match, and even when you throw down the hammer with a turn 1 chalice/ turn 2 moon sometimes it just doesn't even matter. And in a lot of games 4 mana planeswalkers are just too slow when you have 0 blockers and limited interaction
You might just be having a string of bad luck. I've been playing the Bridge version for a year now and I've definitely accrued more wins than losses since. Granted, some decks are an uphill battle + variance screws us over like anyone else but I believe the deck has game against most of the format.
Still, I understand your frustrations when the deck just refuses to work sometimes. Maybe try the Landkill or Bridge variant to see if they work better for you.
Do people find this deck actually works more than 25% of the time? Because I've played a dozen or so games with it and have won maybe 2 or 3 while flopping in all sorts of spectacular fashions in the rest.
In particular any deck with counterspells seems pretty much an auto-lose as you try to jam 4 mana planeswalkers while applying no pressure whatsoever and sitting on fists full of sweepers.
Chalice of the Void has also not even come close to winning me a game whether played turn 1 or 2. I invalidate their fatal push and path to exiles which were already dead anyways. The best case scenario is to be on the play, pitch a guide and block some thoughtseizes. But those are the decks that can either abrupt decay the chalice if/when it matters or use something like collective brutality or liliana to turn the dead card into something useful anyways.
just feels like there are an awful lot of dead cards from match to match, and even when you throw down the hammer with a turn 1 chalice/ turn 2 moon sometimes it just doesn't even matter. And in a lot of games 4 mana planeswalkers are just too slow when you have 0 blockers and limited interaction
You might just be having a string of bad luck. I've been playing the Bridge version for a year now and I've definitely accrued more wins than losses since. Granted, some decks are an uphill battle + variance screws us over like anyone else but I believe the deck has game against most of the format.
Still, I understand your frustrations when the deck just refuses to work sometimes. Maybe try the Landkill or Bridge variant to see if they work better for you.
I would 100% suggest a landkill deck right now, suppression field is way too good on turn 1 not to play it.I've gone 7-2-1 in the last two tournaments I played it in. Drew against affinity(I literally drew 16 lands game 3, and darksteel citadel was clutch for him)
I recently split first place at a 50 player double win a case. Deck is straight fire in the right meta. I went 4-1-1 in the swiss. My only loss was on a punt to jeskai copy cat. Ill post my list and matchups later.
I think that Prisons need to be targeted at the meta, and more than any deck some really careful boarding.
A fast meta with lots of BG-X, if you want to run planeswalkers, needs bridge and leyline main, possibly RIP too if it has lots of Dredge/LE type decks as well. Chalice is less important here, and Moon will come out a lot on the draw. It will also likely run SSG for acceleration into Walkers and emptying hands fro Bridge plus t2 Moon etc.
A counterspell heavy meta needs board work mainly, Boil forces stuff through rather than resolving, and cards like Assemble the Legion are often better than Walkers a lot game two, SSG is worse although main deck Leyline works well.
If the meta has a lot of tron then you would aim to put a little landkill in somewhere, rather than Leylines etc.
The three distinct versions - landkill, walkers+ bridge, and walkers + sweepers but no bridge- all work in different metas. They can also bleed into each other, but they do need a lot of work- just picking one up and playing it won't often work that well in my experience.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Do people find this deck actually works more than 25% of the time? Because I've played a dozen or so games with it and have won maybe 2 or 3 while flopping in all sorts of spectacular fashions in the rest.
In particular any deck with counterspells seems pretty much an auto-lose as you try to jam 4 mana planeswalkers while applying no pressure whatsoever and sitting on fists full of sweepers.
Chalice of the Void has also not even come close to winning me a game whether played turn 1 or 2. I invalidate their fatal push and path to exiles which were already dead anyways. The best case scenario is to be on the play, pitch a guide and block some thoughtseizes. But those are the decks that can either abrupt decay the chalice if/when it matters or use something like collective brutality or liliana to turn the dead card into something useful anyways.
just feels like there are an awful lot of dead cards from match to match, and even when you throw down the hammer with a turn 1 chalice/ turn 2 moon sometimes it just doesn't even matter. And in a lot of games 4 mana planeswalkers are just too slow when you have 0 blockers and limited interaction
As with any deck, you can draw the wrong cards, and the deck has no way of drawing cards. However, chalice turn 1 can win games against storm or burn. Blood moon turn 2 can win games, anger of the gods wins games against dredge and affinity. helix, blessed alliance, and chalice makes burn a good matchup, and Wrath is great against creature decks.
Also, the fact that the deck has great sideboard cards in Rest In Peace, stony silence, etc. make it well positioned.
I think no matter what deck you choose to play, it'll be hard to find a deck that does well against storm, Abzan Coco, DS, burn, affinity, Eldrazi Tron, etc. The strength of this deck is it has cards that are incredibly powerful against all those decks, both main board and sideboard. However, you may draw all the cards that are great against affinity while playing against Eldrazi Tron, and vice-versa.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I worry about substituting Blessed Alliance or Lightning Helix with Abrade. I agree against certain decks, Abrade looks to be pretty useful, especially for helping with the game one match vs Tron, blowing up an expedition map could slow them down enough. However, putting Chalice of the Void on 1 is also generally a turn 2 play so it would be competing with that slot as well. I wonder if the tools we are already implementing are simply better than Abrade? and if you are cutting other spells than our two drop removals, you might be doing it wrong since the deck is already so tight, it's difficult to find new slots for cards.
My question is more towards sideboard. I find my only difficult match-ups are Tron and Breach decks. Blue control gives me some trouble but I normally shore that up with a few Boil's. I bring Stony Silence in vs Tron and then basically just cross my finger my hate lines up before they Oblivion Stone or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. I recently saw someone top8 with a list running 3 [card]Defense Grid
[/card]'s in their sideboard, this is purely for the blue control decks, right? and if it is, what's the general consensus on whether Boil or Defense Grid are better hate vs blue control.
I'm not really sure the optimal way to post decklists or I would post mine, it's pretty generic to the 24 land "Sun and Moon" lists that have been making it on mtgtop8 recently.
PM'd.
EDIT: I have pm'd as a received a personal request and saw that first, not through a desire for secrecy.
As you know I really do recommend running main deck RIP for the RW planeswalker version, and so does he. Great minds eh? I normally go for two, sometimes 3, rarely 1.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13970&writer=Seth Manfield&articledate=5-26-2017
4 suppression field
1 runed halo
3 chalice of the void
1 pyroclasm
1 lightning helix
1 blessed alliance (these 3 are the flex removal slots, I move to instant removal if coco is everywhere, etc., going to 2 Helix)
4 stone rain
4 ghostly prison
2 aven mindcensor
1 crucible of worlds
1 Linvala, keeper of silence (this is due to oo-co and due to DD being marginally worse)
4 magus of the tabernacle
1 goblin darkdweller (it is still decent post rules change)
3 ghost quarter
4 flagstones of trokair
4 sacred foundary
4 battlefield forge
1 mountain
3 plains
1 keldon megaliths
The megaliths is just for grindy decks, it can ping the odd snapcaster every now and then.
The scrylands are essential, great for reanimating via crucible later on if you cast the smaller end of boom bust
I don't think the deck works as well with rugged prarie, its down to those times when you have to blow up your land. Forge is better.
Fetches are a total nonbo with s field and must be avoided at all costs.
Crucible is not essential, but I like to run 1 to open up pseudo 'geddon options as as recur GQs and under time pressure when win cons are needed if you blow up your scryland you can bring it back to scry.
RIP is a nonbo with flagstones, dweller and recurring crucible quarters or post bust rebuilding.
board
1 outpost siege (it can't run planeswalkers due to s field, its for grindy decks)
1 assemble the legion (fair decks, don't worry about the mini nonbo with magus)
3 stony silence (tron GW/RG, affinity, ad nauseam)
2 eidolon of rhetoric (storm, tron, a lot of cantrip-y decks e.g. ad nauseam, its actually decent vs Burn and can come in vs snapcaster decks and also vs any tron deck using stirrings, mana poppers etc.)
1 oust (co-co, death's shadow decks)
1 linvala (elves, coco, decks that don't have flyers)
1 runed halo (flex slot, can be grafdiggers no II, Gideon's, Nevermore etc.)
1 grafdigger's cage (reanimator, coco etc.)
4 leyline of sanctity (BG-X decks with discard, 8 rack, burn etc.)
So really very little change, a couple of board tweaks/main swaps.
The list of things SF hits is huge. I have not run SSG for some while, the free wins from when you power into SF and they get stranded with no fetches are few and far between.
Mentor does not stop anybody doing things, which is the raison d'etre of the deck. Damaging an opponent to the face is a often a bad play in a control deck for similar reasons.
In particular any deck with counterspells seems pretty much an auto-lose as you try to jam 4 mana planeswalkers while applying no pressure whatsoever and sitting on fists full of sweepers.
Chalice of the Void has also not even come close to winning me a game whether played turn 1 or 2. I invalidate their fatal push and path to exiles which were already dead anyways. The best case scenario is to be on the play, pitch a guide and block some thoughtseizes. But those are the decks that can either abrupt decay the chalice if/when it matters or use something like collective brutality or liliana to turn the dead card into something useful anyways.
just feels like there are an awful lot of dead cards from match to match, and even when you throw down the hammer with a turn 1 chalice/ turn 2 moon sometimes it just doesn't even matter. And in a lot of games 4 mana planeswalkers are just too slow when you have 0 blockers and limited interaction
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
You might just be having a string of bad luck. I've been playing the Bridge version for a year now and I've definitely accrued more wins than losses since. Granted, some decks are an uphill battle + variance screws us over like anyone else but I believe the deck has game against most of the format.
Still, I understand your frustrations when the deck just refuses to work sometimes. Maybe try the Landkill or Bridge variant to see if they work better for you.
Curious to see list as well.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
This list interests me, but can someone explain to me what are the 2x snow-covered plains for?
A fast meta with lots of BG-X, if you want to run planeswalkers, needs bridge and leyline main, possibly RIP too if it has lots of Dredge/LE type decks as well. Chalice is less important here, and Moon will come out a lot on the draw. It will also likely run SSG for acceleration into Walkers and emptying hands fro Bridge plus t2 Moon etc.
A counterspell heavy meta needs board work mainly, Boil forces stuff through rather than resolving, and cards like Assemble the Legion are often better than Walkers a lot game two, SSG is worse although main deck Leyline works well.
If the meta has a lot of tron then you would aim to put a little landkill in somewhere, rather than Leylines etc.
The three distinct versions - landkill, walkers+ bridge, and walkers + sweepers but no bridge- all work in different metas. They can also bleed into each other, but they do need a lot of work- just picking one up and playing it won't often work that well in my experience.
As with any deck, you can draw the wrong cards, and the deck has no way of drawing cards. However, chalice turn 1 can win games against storm or burn. Blood moon turn 2 can win games, anger of the gods wins games against dredge and affinity. helix, blessed alliance, and chalice makes burn a good matchup, and Wrath is great against creature decks.
Also, the fact that the deck has great sideboard cards in Rest In Peace, stony silence, etc. make it well positioned.
I think no matter what deck you choose to play, it'll be hard to find a deck that does well against storm, Abzan Coco, DS, burn, affinity, Eldrazi Tron, etc. The strength of this deck is it has cards that are incredibly powerful against all those decks, both main board and sideboard. However, you may draw all the cards that are great against affinity while playing against Eldrazi Tron, and vice-versa.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
My question is more towards sideboard. I find my only difficult match-ups are Tron and Breach decks. Blue control gives me some trouble but I normally shore that up with a few Boil's. I bring Stony Silence in vs Tron and then basically just cross my finger my hate lines up before they Oblivion Stone or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. I recently saw someone top8 with a list running 3 [card]Defense Grid
[/card]'s in their sideboard, this is purely for the blue control decks, right? and if it is, what's the general consensus on whether Boil or Defense Grid are better hate vs blue control.
I'm not really sure the optimal way to post decklists or I would post mine, it's pretty generic to the 24 land "Sun and Moon" lists that have been making it on mtgtop8 recently.
I would not put Abrade in to most S/M builds.